Some clarification..
Wassup, it'd be nice to get some clarification on how a few things work.
>>QGJ zeta Lead<<
- The added offense of 3x the speed. Is it speed before or after mods?
- Is the offense from the 3x speed added to base offense or offense after mods?
- How does "offense up" stack with lead abilities/uniques that add offense? Does offense up override everything else?
- Is this correct? ( Not factoring in armor or dmg variance)
Phys dmg * (offense up + lead ability) = X
X * ability modifier = dmg dealt
Dmg dealt * crit dmg = crit dmg dealt
Or nah?
>>QGJ zeta Lead<<
- The added offense of 3x the speed. Is it speed before or after mods?
- Is the offense from the 3x speed added to base offense or offense after mods?
- How does "offense up" stack with lead abilities/uniques that add offense? Does offense up override everything else?
- Is this correct? ( Not factoring in armor or dmg variance)
Phys dmg * (offense up + lead ability) = X
X * ability modifier = dmg dealt
Dmg dealt * crit dmg = crit dmg dealt
Or nah?
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Replies
Ah man that's lame.
It'd fix alot of problems for Jedi if it took the speed after mods. Then you could stack speed mods along with offense to make them hit harder. Alot of them hit very low (without crits/offense up) even with the added offense from zQGJ lead.
Jedi are good enough already.
They are a strong team, yeah. But when you have so many other toons busting out such high numbers they become a breeze on defense. None of them are scary or force you to have to take them out fast. Except for jka, but that's only because of his boosted unique. And even with his unique + offense up + zQGJ L + crit, there are still toons that casually hit the same or harder.
Especially when the meta is maul and he is busting out 21k crits on them with his basic. These guys need some damage.
A lot of teams need a lot of things. The only ones who don't are the sith. Jedi are lucky right now as they are one of the few teams that can climb the arena with the zaul infestation.
Better take out maul/Palp whatever before they hinder the match for me.
- When you fight empire/zader teams you think..
Better focus down boba/palp/kylo before they do something crazy.
- When you are rebels you think..
Better kill wedge first.
When you see Jedi, nobody has that threatening feel. It's more like.."hmm I guess I'll just focus on jka so his unique doesn't pop." And guess what, if you never set his unique off, he's never really a threat anyways. After that you can just attack whoever because you know Yoda, qgj, etc aren't going to hurt you....
There are more than just jedi and sith that can win in top 20...
Anyways that's besides the point of my thread.
I take out yoda first.. that little guy can wreck havoc.. also qui gon lead is annoying as hell.. yoda makes it worse.. I hate kenobi too especially if they are matched with a fives or some other meat character
Resistance with a Zinn has comfortably squeezed their way there
They have other things to rely on other than brute Force. They have constant foresight and tenacity up which are amazing assets in the metagame. Not every team has to be all about offensive powress (and aayla is quite an offensive threat as well)
I would think it would use modded speed as all other unique, leads and buffs use modded stats.
Man just put b2 in your squad and they stop being annoying. The only use Yoda has is tenacity up. After that he's just slinging his wet noodle if he doesn't die after 2-3 hits. Yeah he can hit decent with offense up and a crit (maybe average 8k- 12k), but that's very situational. Without offense up or a crit he's very weak.
I don't dare attack Jedi teams with my Empire team. TFP would clear Foresight first, assuming with zQGJ's speed boost doesn't put Yoda faster than TFP in the first place, then Yoda puts up Tenacity Up and it's all over. Just because Sith are beating Jedi doesn't mean Jedi aren't a top meta.
Sith are currently on top, but have counters like Rex that are actually starting to replace some the Zauls on my shard's top 20. After Sith we have a game of trump cards with Jedi, Empire, and Rebels. Jedi beat Empire with Tenacity Up, cleanses, and other anti-debuff abilities, Empire beats Rebels with anti-Rebel synergy, and Rebels beat Jedi because they hit harder and don't need to apply debuffs. Once you look past Zaul, there's more balance to arena than you'd think.
Oh wow. Foresight and tenacity up? You mean 2 buffs? The same buffs that b2 and baze laugh at? You do know that if your Yoda goes first and throws tenacity up and your opponent has baze, then baze will get 100% tm and move right after Yoda dispelling the foresight. Leaving tenacity up free to be dispelled and leaving them wide open for the first turns.
Trust me, I run them everyday. Since not long after zetas came out. They are a strong team, yes. But they rely on a niche (tenacity up, and foresight) leaving you with set toons you HAVE to run (QGJ, Yoda, gk are musts..jka for dmg, and either aayla or ahsoka). Also since your team relies on a niche (buffs) it leaves them easily counterable by dispellers, (b2, baze, deathtrooper.) Also they are the faction with so many good toons that have perks against them, (maul, Vader, Palp)
Everyone knows they are a walk in the park on defense, because there are no threats, just annoyances. That's why they get picked apart on shards and can drop like a rock after they climb.
Simply put b2 in your empire team and solve your problems...You will walk the dog on Jedi teams with your empire team if you do...
Same with resistance, fo, etc. If you don't want to drop like a rock run zaul.
And I understand that. I'm not saying resistance, first order, etc don't need a little something too. All I'm speaking for is what I know and run. The people who run those teams can speak for themselves, if you feel me.
EP plus at least 3 other Empire characters is Empire.
Zader plus 3 Empire characters is Empire. Tried it, it failed. There's no Empire DoT inflicters to support it.
Zader with Sith, even if inlcuding TFP, is Sith.
Zader plus Kylo, Boba, B2, Ep/TFP not Empire or Sith, it's a hybrid.
Basically if you're running Zader with two non Empie/Sith characters, you're running a hybrid. Hyrbrid teams are really good because they let you counter multiple metas, even if reducing your own synergy, but don't call them the wrong meta because their lead is a certain faction. Lest I call that Rex lead with 4 Sith characters a Clone meta.
idk if anyone stated anything about full factions?
this has been about if jedi need a buff, and I've been describing ways to counter them.
You said add B2 and my Empire meta will beat a zQGJ. If I did that I'd be running a hybrid for the sake of beating Jedi, and not an Empire meta. Been running Empire since Vader was best lead, not gonna change now just to counter the zQGJ teams on my shard.
Although I've yet to try with my Zrennic lead. I got DT's Zeta today, so maybe it'll work, or I can stick to preying on Rebels.
I won't deny some Jedi need buffs and even reworks. As long Jedi players don't deny the same for Empire. Stormtrooper Zeta anyone?
Ok then.
I guess if you just have to run 5 empire toons, deathtrooper has an aoe dispel that can clear tenacity up, yeah?
Yeah really not sure where that came from....
Jedi do need a buff though. The main problem I see with Jedi is the lack of utility that each Jedi has. Each Jedi does their 1 thing that is important to the squad as a whole, but they really only have one character (GK) that can fill multiple roles. Chirrut and Baze are an easy example in that they can do almost everything with just 2 characters (Only almost though), and while yes not everyone needs to be Chaze, but I feel like the Jedi are just a little outdated in the way their kits work. They all have a good utility, but they all each really only have 1 thing going for them, which makes it hard to work them into a team because you need 5 fairly specific jedi to make the team work. The jedi need to have more utility as a whole so that more than just 5 or 6 jedi are able to be put into a team and have it work well. They function as a unit well, but they don't all function well as a unit, and once one of them goes down they've just lost a key part of their team's utility.
That being said, they also don't have any huge threats like many other factions do, but I think they don't necessarily need a huge threat, they just need to be a threat together that makes it harder for one of them to die quickly. Just like how Zaul made it hard to target the squishy Sith that can wreak havoc, the Jedi make it hard to target them as a whole, but if you focus down on 1 of them its easy enough to kill them because the foresight only lasts 1 attack. They stop debuff teams in their tracks, but they need the whole team to be alive to keep functioning at their peak and they don't have any real enormous offensive threats. I think the clones also fall into this category of being just under what they could be if a couple of them were able to do a few more things, but thats a different topic.
Very well put!
Yeah jedi and clones are very outdated. Most Jedi have been the same for over a year now. - - - Jka got a rework like 9 months ago.
- QGJ got an awesome zeta
- Yoda got 2 "meh" zetas imo. The - 1 cooldown was nice, but Yoda is already fast under zQGJ. So most likely he is passing foresight to toons that already have it.
- And we got the God GK.
That's the 4 most most recent (decent) things they've received. And that has to be the core of the team + 1 other.
I'm not trying to sound whiny or needy, I'm really happy and thankful I can finally use my jedi now in top arena. But I just think a few more things could be done to make them completely solid. I feel like some other different factions users probably feel the same way about what they use too.
Jedi need buffs and reworks, more than Empire if you look at it from a certain angle. But there's bad and good on both sides, not just one. I'd actually like a Jedi Knight Guardian rework when it comes to Jedi. She's got some pretty sweet animations with that Double Bladed lightsaber, but is probably the worst off.
Ok, just because i feel like Jedi need some tweaks, doesn't mean I don't think other factions don't need them too. Not sure why people get defensive when someone asks for a Jedi buff.
I use Jedi, of course I'm going to be vocal and promote the need for a Jedi buff.
You can do the same about empire.
Also the reason I told you to put b2 in your empire team is because you can without really messing up your synergy. It actually help your synergy since tenacity stops debuffs (which is kinda your game plan) b2 can dispel...opening up the door for your squad to land those debuffs.
The reason you always see empire/rebel teams with other factions toons is because they can afford to do so. In the top 20 when you see a jedi team, most likely it's going to be full Jedi zQGJ. We can't afford to drop anyone because it destroys the synergy.
- Only jedi are buffed by QGJ. So we need QGJ.
- we need yoda for tenacity up, to win against empire
- we need gk for the synergy, taunt, and cleanse
The last 2 spots need to be some dps since the other 3 aren't really.
- well jka is a Jedi and has good dmg. why would I not use him
- Then it's a toss up between aayla or ahsoka since every other jedi is trash pretty much. maybe barris, but tbh she isn't that good in a team like this. Maybe you could flex someone on the last spot, but they will just be sitting there without foresight. I used to used kylo or shore as my 5th before gk, but they didnt fit well.
zQGJ, jka, aayla, Yoda, shore/kylo - I used to get drug all over top 50 overnight.
zQGJ, jka, aayla, Yoda, gk - Lowest I've dropped is 25.
You'd be the first to agree other factions need reworks sadly, and I wasn't trying to be defensive. Jedi need buffs and reworks. More than Empire since my new team Zrennic, DT, TFP, and SHT as it's staples, allows that fifth spot to be interchanged between Magma, EP, Vader, or RG to fit the battle. Something Jedi can't really do.
I try to avoid being too vocal after the Stormtrooper incident. Just comments here and there on threads and polls asking what factions or characters deserve reworks.
They seriously need a few buffs and Jedi Luke. They are not even close to rebels, Sith and even empire is better.