Stunned enemies going into stealth

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Ouchie
1233 posts Member
Can someone please explain?

If a stunned toon can't dodge, how can they go into stealth?

Replies

  • The0n3
    984 posts Member
    I wish i knew that too!! Apparently it's wai. But logic says no, it isn't.
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    The mind boggles.
  • You want an easy button? What's next? Free chromiums?

    *snicker*
  • Magic
  • Gilgurth wrote: »
    You want an easy button? What's next? Free chromiums?

    *snicker*

    Fanboy much?
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    I'm a fan of free Chromiums
  • I wanna be a fanboy! I love nsync!
  • I even have a fauxhawk!
  • HeresTheTruth
    480 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Ouchie wrote: »
    Can someone please explain?

    If a stunned toon can't dodge, how can they go into stealth?

    Stun means they can't move they miss a turn. Stun doesn't mean they can't taunt, can't get healing, or can't get any buffs such as stealth. A simple read of the way buffs/debuffs work would alleviate a lot of these fake bug and issues posts. It's wai.

    Don't want them to go in stealth? That's what shock is for. It's not a bug it's wai.

    As much as so many people hate this zMaul meta it is what it is. The dodge stealth meta is back and in full force. Your gonna have to deal with it and the devs can't help you.

  • I'm a fan of Ouchie!
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    @HeresTheTruth

    1. I didn't post this as a bug. I posted in primary chat for a discussion. It got moved to this subforum, the reason for which you'd have to ask a mod. Also, a "simple read" of my post would result in an understanding that I never called it a bug or suggested that it was one. It was a question.

    2. Take another "simple read" of my original post. I never asked for help.

    3. There IS a legitimate discussion to be had here. I don't know how long you've been playing (neither do I care), but there was a time when stunned toons could DODGE. People questioned, people complained, and those such as yourself would complain about those people exclaiming "It's working as intended!" Well guess what? It wasn't. And that's just one example. There are many. If everything released in this game was WAI upon release, there'd be no need for "fixes."

    4. This was a discussion post. Not a bug report. If you don't want to discuss, then go away.

  • If i stun a chicken, will it still cluck?
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    Only if you critically hit it @Lordballs ;)
  • ABNRAS
    564 posts Member
    You may not have found an answer, but at least you've found a tool
  • His names here's the truth, what a pretentious ****. The mods can't help you, but he can. After he locks you in a cage in his basement.
  • Ouchie wrote: »
    @HeresTheTruth

    1. I didn't post this as a bug. I posted in primary chat for a discussion. It got moved to this subforum, the reason for which you'd have to ask a mod. Also, a "simple read" of my post would result in an understanding that I never called it a bug or suggested that it was one. It was a question.

    2. Take another "simple read" of my original post. I never asked for help.

    3. There IS a legitimate discussion to be had here. I don't know how long you've been playing (neither do I care), but there was a time when stunned toons could DODGE. People questioned, people complained, and those such as yourself would complain about those people exclaiming "It's working as intended!" Well guess what? It wasn't. And that's just one example. There are many. If everything released in this game was WAI upon release, there'd be no need for "fixes."

    4. This was a discussion post. Not a bug report. If you don't want to discuss, then go away.

    I'll give you number 1 and 2.

    For number 3 you can do a quick search of stun/stealth threads and see you're not the only one who brought up this issue. If you don't find an answer there well that means it's pretty much wai.

    For number 4 well let's have a discussion..I take it you're probably one of those people who feel that a stunned toon shouldn't gain stealth. But this is the thing...stun DOES NOT prevent buffs. It's not a buff block. It does not stop RG from taunting, it does not stop a healer from healing the stunned toon, it does not prevent offense up, speed up, foresight gain or Stealth.

    Stun only prevents a toon from dodging(unable to move when attacked) and stun prevents the toon from attacking(missing a turn). That's it..that's what stun does.

    I fail to see any other discussion that otherwise contradicts that by stating that stun should do anything else than what is already doing. That right there is pure simple logic and understanding of the stun mechanic...it is simply Working as intended. Period.


  • pharp1010 wrote: »
    His names here's the truth, what a pretentious ****. The mods can't help you, but he can. After he locks you in a cage in his basement.


    Someone only seems pretentious when a **** fails to understand simple logic.
  • pharp1010
    63 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Or you made my point with your trying to sound smart answer. Your mom's calling downstairs that she made meatloaf for dinner don't be late. Still has the sign on the fridge how you won a spelling bee back in 1982. Sure that makes you feel better then everyone.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Ouchie wrote: »
    @HeresTheTruth

    1. I didn't post this as a bug. I posted in primary chat for a discussion. It got moved to this subforum, the reason for which you'd have to ask a mod. Also, a "simple read" of my post would result in an understanding that I never called it a bug or suggested that it was one. It was a question.

    2. Take another "simple read" of my original post. I never asked for help.

    3. There IS a legitimate discussion to be had here. I don't know how long you've been playing (neither do I care), but there was a time when stunned toons could DODGE. People questioned, people complained, and those such as yourself would complain about those people exclaiming "It's working as intended!" Well guess what? It wasn't. And that's just one example. There are many. If everything released in this game was WAI upon release, there'd be no need for "fixes."

    4. This was a discussion post. Not a bug report. If you don't want to discuss, then go away.

    I'll give you number 1 and 2.

    For number 3 you can do a quick search of stun/stealth threads and see you're not the only one who brought up this issue. If you don't find an answer there well that means it's pretty much wai.

    For number 4 well let's have a discussion..I take it you're probably one of those people who feel that a stunned toon shouldn't gain stealth. But this is the thing...stun DOES NOT prevent buffs. It's not a buff block. It does not stop RG from taunting, it does not stop a healer from healing the stunned toon, it does not prevent offense up, speed up, foresight gain or Stealth.

    Stun only prevents a toon from dodging(unable to move when attacked) and stun prevents the toon from attacking(missing a turn). That's it..that's what stun does.

    I fail to see any other discussion that otherwise contradicts that by stating that stun should do anything else than what is already doing. That right there is pure simple logic and understanding of the stun mechanic...it is simply Working as intended. Period.

    Sorry but that is not true. The only people that know if something is working as intended is the developers. Just because something has been a certain way doesn't mean it is working as intended. So as a community we can only guess something is working as intended. I mean how many people though heal immunity not stopping protection recovery was WAI only for the developers to come out and say no it was always intended to stop protection recovery.
  • It would help if there was an official in-game listing of all buffs and debuffs and exactly which each does. Saying a simple read of these things would alleviate complaints
    doesn't help when there isn't an easily accessible OFFICIAL source for this information.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    volitan wrote: »
    It would help if there was an official in-game listing of all buffs and debuffs and exactly which each does. Saying a simple read of these things would alleviate complaints
    doesn't help when there isn't an easily accessible OFFICIAL source for this information.

    Agreed 100000000000%.
    but if there was an official listing then it makes it harder to say it was broke and it was changed because that is never what it intended to do.
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    So, let's discuss then. First, let's look at what stealth means. The way the game shows it graphically, it appears basically as invisibility. A toon just becomes transparent. In fact, we've all probably used the terms interchangeably. However, this is a mistake. Stealth does not directly mean invisible. Let's look at 4 definitions from popular dictionaries...





    Merriam-Webster
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    Dictionary.com
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    Cambridge
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    MacMillan
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    Notice something with those definitions? They all use words such as "procedure," "action," and/or "behaving."

    So one must ask, what is Maul's presence doing exactly to cause this? Is he using some Sith hocus pocus? Does he himself position his allies to avoid detection? Does he have a big cape that he swooshes over them? Provide movable bushes for his allies to hide behind? No. Stealth is an action/procedure/behavior that someone does THEMSELF to avoid being noticed. Someone is doing an action here, it's not passive by any understanding of the word. Maul isn't casting a magic spell to make himself or his allies invisible. His presence (somehow) essentially makes the probabilty that he/they can achieve stealth 100% if they are critically hit. Invisibility is not what's happening because if it were, the mighty devs in their infinite wisdom would have called it that. Stealth is performed by the person achieving it. It's a way of behaving to avoid detection. By your own admission @HeresTheTruth, stun prevents moving.

    Gaining the stealth doesn't remove the stun, so how can an opponent who is stunned gain the ability to do cautious and surreptitious action or movement? How can an opponent who is stunned gain the ability to do secret, clandestine, or surreptitious procedure? How can a stunned opponent perform a furtive departure? How can a stunned opponent do movement that is quiet and careful in order to avoid notice? How can a stunned opponent do a secret or indirect action? How can a stunned opponent enact a quiet and secret way of behaving so that no one sees or hears them?

    Now, I would accept that they could gain stealth AFTER their stun wears off. But that's certainly not what is currently happening.
  • I think im in love
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    Awwww.... <3 you know the feeling is mutual ;)

  • Sorry @Ouchie but using definitions from the real world to justify why something isn't working in your opinion on a "sci-if" game doesn't give factual primis that it isn't working as intended.

    Here is a tip next time in arena touch to little stun icon over the toons you stun...you'll see it does exactly what it says it does.

    Again for the third time..stun doesn't block buffs. I don't know how much more can be said here. Stun isn't a buff blocker. It's a miss a turn and can't dodge debuff.

    But for the sale of arguments let's say a stunned toon shouldn't be able to stealth. If that's the case a stunned toon shouldn't be able to get heals, taunt, revive or get offense up either? That would make stun completely over powered. I simply can't understand why you don't realize this.

    Stun and stealth is working as intended. Again...stun isn't a buff blocker.
  • pharp1010 wrote: »
    Or you made my point with your trying to sound smart answer. Your mom's calling downstairs that she made meatloaf for dinner don't be late. Still has the sign on the fridge how you won a spelling bee back in 1982. Sure that makes you feel better then everyone.

    And you just showed your true age kid. Talking about someones mother over the Internet is so 2003. I didn't think people still did that. Is that all you got? Momma jokes? What? Did the game make you mad so you wanna vent on the forums? Someone in the game is better than you and you can't handle it? Maybe try offline games. There are tons of websites offering free cheat codes to make whatever offline game you're playing have God-mode turned on so you can beat it easily. Go play those instead. Cause you sound like your on the verge of crying and I don't want that on my conscious.
  • Supercat
    3250 posts Member
    Even if it should be this way, it shouldn't.

    A debuff that prevents buffs, skips next turn, and (would eventually) prevent TM gain is over powered.

    When you get hard enough, can't you be wacked into a bush?

    Couldn't all your allies taunt if you got whacked hard enough?



    There are more arguments against it than with it.
    One thing about stun I do think should be changed is either the description or fix it (for it has a bug that technically isn't a bug).

    Stun: "Skips next turn"
    Barris/STH unique (and others): "At the end of the turn..."

    How does the turn end if they never had it start?
    @CG_Kozispoon said it isn't a bug, but I disagree. It's either a bug or an incorrect description.
    Don't be a ****(4), and follow forum guidelines.
  • @ here's the truth because you obviously didn't understand this **** insult let me explain it to you. That was a insult that you live alone in your mom's basement sitting on a computer trying to sound smart. A your mama joke example is your mamas so fat her belly button shows up 5 minutes before she does. See that's directed at your mom personally. I'm sure your mother is a saint , she still supports you and makes sure you have mtn dew and Doritos to eat. So when I have to explain insults they lose there impact so try to keep up. Also save telling me how much you make or the imaginary PhD you don't really have.
  • Ouchie
    1233 posts Member
    Is retribution a buff? It puts a green square over the toon's head. Can a stunned toon counter?

    No. Because counterattacking involves movement.

    What about stunned toons with evasion up? That's a buff, but can they evade? No, because that involves movement.

    Heals and revives aren't done by the stunned toon. Unless it's a passive heal of some kind (heal over time or such), which requires no action on the part of the healed, stunned toons are not healing themselves. Other toons are doing the healing. Can a stunned toon do a healing move? No, they can't. They're stunned.

    Neither can a stunned toon do a buff move. They can be buffed by other toons, or receive another passive buff, but there is no action there.

    Most buffs are "status conditions," retribution, stealth, and taunt are different things. They are all actions, like dodging with evasion up. So to answer your question, no they shouldn't be able to taunt. Just like they shouldn't be able to do a healing move. They are stunned. They can't move.

    Stealth is not going POOF and you're invisible. It's a way of acting. And sorry, we need to use real world words no matter what because we're living in the real world. If the devs meant invisible, they would have said that. If it's a mistake on their part where they really meant invisible, then the word needs changing.
  • Rotor
    473 posts Member
    +1 stunned characters shouldn't gain stealth.
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