Is everyone just dumb?

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Replies

  • Byakuya
    392 posts Member
    +1 trick pony
  • benacrow wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »

    People are mad because mods and gear have been invalidated, and matches have just turned into dodge rng fests where there is no skill involved, and scrubs can beat the best of comps.

    How so? Speed is still immensely important. How much tenacity/potency on the right toons is important.

    The order your characters go in is make or break for many teams. If you're not thinking about that/ comparing it to what your opponent is running, that's your own fault.

    For one, I don't run Zaul, because I don't have him and I think it's dumb.

    But no, mods don't matter. I took my insanely modded Wiggs Chaze GK team, all max gear, and lost to this scrub the other day who ran Zaul DN EP Sid SA. His SA was G10.

    As for mods there, he had maybe one toon above 200 speed. My slowest (aside from Baze at 175), was GK at 230 and 90k h/p. There's no way in hell that I should lose to a guy with such poor mods and not even a fully g11 team, yet I lost with his 4 standing at the end.

    It's all just rng there. Sure you can't throw lvl 1 mods in and do well, but having several toons with 90+ speed secondaries compared to one SA who is fast because of the initial tm gain, and proceeding to lose, is a disgrace. If I ran Zaul and went first, it would matter because it's rng if the enemy dodges and all gain tm and go next. At that point, mods don't matter because I still will have whiffed with a faster toon, then they'll just all attack.

    Well, you're forgetting he's using a zeta skill as leader that impacts his whole team and you don't have one in yours - zeta is the most powerful ability by far, gear just adds a bit of damage and some protection when you're talking just 10-11. If you faced his same squad without the zeta on maul it would be a curb stomp in your favor. I don't think you're considering the zeta factor enough when analyzing the teams.
  • Simple.

    Remove the 20% insta TM boost.

    Make zaul leads 'need' sith assassin to have that kind of speed at the start of a fight (like FO needs officer, Zader needs TFP/Sid, resistance needs Poe) etc.

    Zaul = RNG, the antithesis of FUN.
  • ptr
    173 posts Member
    Can you share details about those Zader teams? What characters are in them?
  • Tannjam
    420 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    ptr wrote: »
    Can you share details about those Zader teams? What characters are in them?

    I'm using Zader, TFP, BF, GK, EP and able to reach Top 3 in my shard daily - but not without a ton of coordination, one refresh a day, and a little luck. (50% of the top 20 is zMaul, with 25% Rex lead).
    https://swgoh.gg/u/tannjam/

  • Olga
    1333 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Shaunyvee wrote: »
    Simple.

    Remove the 20% insta TM boost.

    Make zaul leads 'need' sith assassin to have that kind of speed at the start of a fight (like FO needs officer, Zader needs TFP/Sid, resistance needs Poe) etc.

    Zaul = RNG, the antithesis of FUN.

    Then what would be the point of a Zaul lead? Also wouldn't that just mean Yoda would be faster anyway, pop his AoE tenacity, infinite foresight. No strategy just faceroll to #1.

    Far superior meta for sure. What happens when everyone is using infinite foresight squads? You think Zaul vs Zaul is bad now? XD
  • Twin
    527 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    benacrow wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    [
    For one, I don't run Zaul, because I don't have him and I think it's dumb.

    But no, mods don't matter. I took my insanely modded Wiggs Chaze GK team, all max gear, and lost to this scrub the other day who ran Zaul DN EP Sid SA. His SA was G10.

    You used paper vs scissors. Yea. Mods won't help you there. They're important. Not game-breaking. You used the wrong comp. It would have been weird if you didn't lose.

    My guildmate running Zaul DN EP GK Zid lost 3 times in a row to that team I used, and several others have said it's one of the hardest teams they've faced. It's not the team. It can literally beat anything. I lost because of rng to some scrub who has no business in even coming close to beating my comp without all rng.

    His point is still valid...

    Zaul lead wasn't a threat before DN... SA is not there for the power or get but the TM bonus special, similar to Rex basically.

    With Zaul + DN you either need all FASTER toons to get debuffs all over the place and to get DN Annihilate on a 3 turn cool down (and all your toons on a +1 cool down) OR use max speed on SA and get the attack order/TM that way.

    This is the exact speed game done with StHan, Rex etc

    This isn't so different then meta's in the past... Where you had wiggs, sthan, Lando + one random. In this case it is Zaul, DN, SA + 2 others.

    While people have counters they are not nearly as efficient or effective as a proper Zaul team. Rex? He is like a hammer for the issue (thankfully). He mainly works only if you have a better team, not if you have a "anti-zaul" team.

    DN is part of the powercreep, everyone says he is balanced and I do not think so. He has more health then Baze, hits like an attacker (5-6k WITH Dispell) and everything he does works to his OHK while stunting your teams cool downs. Yet Chaze combo is also part of this new "power" so it seems only fair.

  • Afa
    70 posts Member
    Umm what, zmaul teams are OP. There are only about two teams that can beat zmaul consistently.

    The fact that every other team type, except for two, has trouble zmaul; while zmaul/ sith have trouble with nothing. Switch to DN lead and you can take care of Rex easy.

    Zmaul definitely is top dog and doesn't stimulate a balanced gameplay. This it's OP
  • benacrow wrote: »
    Yea. Insulting title right? But this is the genuine thought that has crossed my mind after reading all the "meta" discussions today.

    Zaul teams are not the only option and quite easy to beat when the AI is controlling them. My own shard is full of whales with impressive full gear teams. There are maybe 2 zaul teams that can hold the top 10. The REALLY well moded zader teams eat them for breakfast while the "protect the nihilus" GK led teams consistently jockey for 1st and 2nd. Meanwhile the max speed jedi teams beat the Zader and Rex teams, yet my Zylo can solo the jedi 1v5 (albeit, slowly).

    What I'm trying to say here is there is a counter for everything, and if you're having trouble, it's probably because you're too comitted to one faction or haven't moded right. Things like speed order matter, sillies.

    Use your heads. The fact you're required to in order to hold a decent spot in arena is what makes this game fun.

    Rock on, developers.

    (PS, I dont. And will never use a Zaul team. Way too much a 1 trick pony.)

    The problem isn't being able to beat it, it's that anyone can beat anyone. So that scrubby guy with terrible mods and g10 toons? Well he can beat your g11 maxed heavily modded toons all because of rng.

    It's one thing to not be able to beat a team, but its another when some guys have no business of beating your teams when they've never seen the top 20 before.

    This is a valid argument.
  • Not everyone has been playing since day one or has been forking out the cash to have the teams to counter a broken mechanic. The problem is that developers are just too lazy to fix the broken mechanics and adjust stats on characters to balance the playing field. Instead they just introduce more broken mechanics known as zeta abilities for older toons and new toons that are broken from the start. Now that the game is heading in that direction, they can't take these abilities away because everyone will start complaining that their team isn't OP, and they can't solo a raid anymore. The power creep is really making me lose interest in this game.
  • benacrow wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »

    People are mad because mods and gear have been invalidated, and matches have just turned into dodge rng fests where there is no skill involved, and scrubs can beat the best of comps.

    How so? Speed is still immensely important. How much tenacity/potency on the right toons is important.

    The order your characters go in is make or break for many teams. If you're not thinking about that/ comparing it to what your opponent is running, that's your own fault.

    For one, I don't run Zaul, because I don't have him and I think it's dumb.

    But no, mods don't matter. I took my insanely modded Wiggs Chaze GK team, all max gear, and lost to this scrub the other day who ran Zaul DN EP Sid SA. His SA was G10.

    As for mods there, he had maybe one toon above 200 speed. My slowest (aside from Baze at 175), was GK at 230 and 90k h/p. There's no way in hell that I should lose to a guy with such poor mods and not even a fully g11 team, yet I lost with his 4 standing at the end.

    It's all just rng there. Sure you can't throw lvl 1 mods in and do well, but having several toons with 90+ speed secondaries compared to one SA who is fast because of the initial tm gain, and proceeding to lose, is a disgrace. If I ran Zaul and went first, it would matter because it's rng if the enemy dodges and all gain tm and go next. At that point, mods don't matter because I still will have whiffed with a faster toon, then they'll just all attack.

    Bingo.

    Zaul+SA+EP+DN+any with junk mods, low speed and undergeared can beat most teams as long as they have enough speed to get SA first which isn't hard. We had 38k power slow zaul teams beating 46k power fast zaul teams w the only difference being SA.

    Power is a questionable stat but between similar teams, it's show how great the disparity in gear and mods are.

  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
    There's, like, 8 people in General Discussion who aren't dumb.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • tRRRey
    2782 posts Member
    ptr wrote: »
    Can you share details about those Zader teams? What characters are in them?

    Zader, Nihilus, Assassin, Zid, Sith Trooper/GK
    It used to be Zader, Zid/TFP, Boba, Palp, GK
    https://swgoh.gg/u/trey 66/
    Make Zader Great Again!
  • sL_Spinoza
    404 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Yea. Insulting title right? But this is the genuine thought that has crossed my mind after reading all the "meta" discussions today.

    Zaul teams are not the only option and quite easy to beat when the AI is controlling them. My own shard is full of whales with impressive full gear teams. There are maybe 2 zaul teams that can hold the top 10. The REALLY well moded zader teams eat them for breakfast while the "protect the nihilus" GK led teams consistently jockey for 1st and 2nd. Meanwhile the max speed jedi teams beat the Zader and Rex teams, yet my Zylo can solo the jedi 1v5 (albeit, slowly).

    What I'm trying to say here is there is a counter for everything, and if you're having trouble, it's probably because you're too comitted to one faction or haven't moded right. Things like speed order matter, sillies.

    Use your heads. The fact you're required to in order to hold a decent spot in arena is what makes this game fun.

    Rock on, developers.

    (PS, I dont. And will never use a Zaul team. Way too much a 1 trick pony.)

    Can anyone tell me about a month in which there was no leader with more than 50% people using it in META?

    I know of two periods:

    Old Ben and Dooku

    Lando and Wedge

    In the two times the sum two hit or arrived almost 70%, and were the same formations with different leaders

  • Boo
    4134 posts Member
    I've come across some zaul teams - my arena team certainly is not fantastic, but its the ship I'm running until I can switch out for "new crew" so to speak.

    That being said, against zaul teams, sometimes I beat them and sometimes I don't. It's total RNG and of course higher gear and mods help but are not a sure bet.

    Yes zaul is annoying to see in arena, team after team but its just the new Wiggs and Chaze and I'm sure Phoenix will take over soon enough and the forums will have endless threads about that too.
  • benacrow wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »

    People are mad because mods and gear have been invalidated, and matches have just turned into dodge rng fests where there is no skill involved, and scrubs can beat the best of comps.

    How so? Speed is still immensely important. How much tenacity/potency on the right toons is important.

    The order your characters go in is make or break for many teams. If you're not thinking about that/ comparing it to what your opponent is running, that's your own fault.

    For one, I don't run Zaul, because I don't have him and I think it's dumb.

    But no, mods don't matter. I took my insanely modded Wiggs Chaze GK team, all max gear, and lost to this scrub the other day who ran Zaul DN EP Sid SA. His SA was G10.

    As for mods there, he had maybe one toon above 200 speed. My slowest (aside from Baze at 175), was GK at 230 and 90k h/p. There's no way in hell that I should lose to a guy with such poor mods and not even a fully g11 team, yet I lost with his 4 standing at the end.

    It's all just rng there. Sure you can't throw lvl 1 mods in and do well, but having several toons with 90+ speed secondaries compared to one SA who is fast because of the initial tm gain, and proceeding to lose, is a disgrace. If I ran Zaul and went first, it would matter because it's rng if the enemy dodges and all gain tm and go next. At that point, mods don't matter because I still will have whiffed with a faster toon, then they'll just all attack.

    Bingo.

    Zaul+SA+EP+DN+any with junk mods, low speed and undergeared can beat most teams as long as they have enough speed to get SA first which isn't hard. We had 38k power slow zaul teams beating 46k power fast zaul teams w the only difference being SA.

    Power is a questionable stat but between similar teams, it's show how great the disparity in gear and mods are.

    I guess i can beat a droids squad at 46k that doesn't have JE whit a droids squad of 34k that have JE. Better comp lower in gear beat other worst comp...simple
  • OP. Yes. (almost) Everyone is just dumb.
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