Does Pao's Basic raise his TM?

Pao gains 5% TM when allies use their basic attack. Does he count as an ally? If so he can give himself 15% TM on a 3 hit basic, right?

Replies

  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    When it says ally, it includes that person. If it says other ally or another ally, then it doesn't.

    So, yes. he can get 15% tm from his attack. With him double or triple attacking, it also basically turns his special abilities into 2 or 3 turn cooldowns too.
  • Okay cool. Thanks buddy
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    That's without counting Biggs's extra turns and underestimating the normal amount of counterattacking that will occur to account for bad RNG, using specials, and being debuffed. The actual average amount of basic attacks should be higher than that. I considered Ezra instead of Chirrut because he's always worth 2 attacks if he isn't using his buffwipe, and I would probably sub him in against a team that has few debuffs. I also considered R2, but this is a themed Rebel Group that he doesn't quite fit into, although singling out K2S0 with Smokescreen would have been a nice little trick with him to rack up some extra basic attacks.

    Now Pao will be gaining so much tm from his specials and unique, and Wedge's lead that it's possible that he will go so much faster than most people that maybe once in a while you'd have an odd turn out where you had to attack, but he'll pretty much always hit 2 times when that happens, and will hit 3 times more often than not. He'd definitely keep Defense Down on the enemy team perpetually.

    But the long lasting offense up along with the Wedge lead and the defense down should make opponents just melt to the attacks from this team, while Chirrut, Wedge, and K2S0 should make them have a lot of survivability.
  • That would be a awesome group. I plan a Jyn lead team with Bistan, Pao, Bodhi Rook, and ST Han for the Rancor.

    Jyn gives everyone Potency, 5% protection whenever they get a buff and removes TM and gains TM.

    Bistan removes TM based on his rebel allies and potency and also grants 20% TM to his allies. On top of that his frenzy will allow him to attack many times to help Pao. This could work awesome in your squad.

    Pao grants allies offense up which would also give them 5% protection from Jyn lead and also 50% defense from Bodhis unique. He can also raise his own TM and his allies can help do the same.

    Bodhi Rook gives evasion down so the Rancor will always be hit. He calls an assist that will help Pao. He removes 10% TM and gives his allies 20% TM. He grants offense up every turn and also gives them 50% defense with the offense up.

    ST Han will give allies 30% TM. Has a chance of raising his TM with his basic. And has a chance to remove TM every turn.

    I can't see how this team wouldn't beat the Rancor with so much synergy. I'm excited I'm not the only one testing out Pao.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
  • We need confirmation @CG_Kozispoon please :)
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

    Raid bosses specifically state when they take damage not when attacked or hit by ability.

    Use basic attack and basic ability is the same thing just lack of consistent wording as with many other things in this game.

    Agree he might make have a use in the p1 damage loop. Offense up and at least 2 damage each time.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

    Raid bosses specifically state when they take damage not when attacked or hit by ability.

    Use basic attack and basic ability is the same thing just lack of consistent wording as with many other things in this game.

    Agree he might make have a use in the p1 damage loop. Offense up and at least 2 damage each time.

    Aye, that's what they state, but it's not entirely true or Zader's permadots would give the Rancor large amounts of turn meter as soon as he went just like on Grievous, and I haven't seen that happening. I'd say it's safe to assume that what raid bosses gain tm from is by no means universal, and I'd be willing to be that a triple attack from Pao would only give the Rancor 5% tm.

  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

    Raid bosses specifically state when they take damage not when attacked or hit by ability.

    Use basic attack and basic ability is the same thing just lack of consistent wording as with many other things in this game.

    Agree he might make have a use in the p1 damage loop. Offense up and at least 2 damage each time.

    Aye, that's what they state, but it's not entirely true or Zader's permadots would give the Rancor large amounts of turn meter as soon as he went just like on Grievous, and I haven't seen that happening. I'd say it's safe to assume that what raid bosses gain tm from is by no means universal, and I'd be willing to be that a triple attack from Pao would only give the Rancor 5% tm.
    @Woodroward
    That is because Dot's apply damage at the start of the turn before they make a move and they still have 100% TM, same as your characters. TM doen't go to 0 till you start you action.

    1. Reach 100% TM
    2. Turn start
    3. Dot's apply damage
    4. Action for turn is chosen
    5. TM drop's to 0% and chosen action is started.

    This isn't against the tank don't have one open to grab from there but same principle applies
    Notice Baze TM is still 100% when the Burning damage is done
    AS4hfhl.png
    1bnrNze.png

    Edit: Found someone else's video to show my point
    Hull TM is 100% when dot damage is done. If you are at 100% TM you can't gain anymore.
    y6x7bKP.png

    Griveous get the high amount of TM because of taking damage 7 times and tigger tactical manueving.

    Edit: I think Rey will actually give the Pig or rancor more than 5% TM when she uses Flurry of blows, haven't used her in so long.
    Post edited by scuba on
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

    Raid bosses specifically state when they take damage not when attacked or hit by ability.

    Use basic attack and basic ability is the same thing just lack of consistent wording as with many other things in this game.

    Agree he might make have a use in the p1 damage loop. Offense up and at least 2 damage each time.

    Aye, that's what they state, but it's not entirely true or Zader's permadots would give the Rancor large amounts of turn meter as soon as he went just like on Grievous, and I haven't seen that happening. I'd say it's safe to assume that what raid bosses gain tm from is by no means universal, and I'd be willing to be that a triple attack from Pao would only give the Rancor 5% tm.
    @Woodroward
    That is because Dot's apply damage at the start of the turn before they make a move and they still have 100% TM, same as your characters. TM doen't go to 0 till you start you action.

    1. Reach 100% TM
    2. Turn start
    3. Dot's apply damage
    4. Action for turn is chosen
    5. TM drop's to 0% and chosen action is started.

    This isn't against the tank don't have one open to grab from there but same principle applies
    Notice Baze TM is still 100% when the Burning damage is done
    AS4hfhl.png
    1bnrNze.png

    Edit: Found someone else's video to show my point
    Hull TM is 100% when dot damage is done. If you are at 100% TM you can't gain anymore.
    y6x7bKP.png

    Griveous get the high amount of TM because of taking damage 7 times and tigger tactical manueving.

    Rey will actually give the Pig or rancor more than 5% TM when she uses Flurry of blows.


    Hmmm. That being the case makes me think that the inclusion of Sun Fac should make Zader viable on Grievous because his turn would start, he'd get the buff, AoE and have Sun Fac counter attack and dispel the buff before he ever got any speed or tm gain out of it. heck, it actually sounds like a perfect way to manage him.

  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I want to try Pao in a Wedge lead with Biggs, Chirrut, & K2S0.
    Everyone will basically perpetually have offense up. Pao could just alternate his Specials.


    Biggs's abilities will account for 4 basic attacks every 2 turns for him, if he calls Pao, that's a potential extra 2 in there. K2S0 will have perma taunt with Pao's offense up and Chirrut's hots, so is practically guaranteed extra attacks every round. Chirrut also will get extra attacks from counterattacking. Wedge won't, but that's fine. between those 3 they should average 9 basic attacks in 2 rounds. that's an average of 13 basic attacks every 2 rounds.

    How is that any extra for calling Pao? His basic deals damage multiple times not attack multiple times, so it only uses his basic once.

    It doesn't say each time they use a basic ability, It says each basic attack. Each time he deals damage it should count as a separate attack, just like it would on the Rancor or if triggering Zaul's leader ability. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But they usually design these characters to have their OWN abilities interact with each other at least.

    It is still only 1 attack. I have seen a video. He gains 5% tm when using his basic ability /attack even when it score multiple hits. if he only moves ones it is a single attack.
    Huh. that's interesting. That should mean Raid bosses should only get 5% from his basic too. Makes me wonder if it is WAI. I did see in the description for his basic that it says deal damage again rather than attack again so in that fashion it seems right. I get the feeling it was supposed to be 3 separate attacks when they first proposed him but forgot that they designed his kit around that when they decided to make his multiple attacks unique in that it only counted as one.

    He would still work as a good sub for the GK infinite counter loop on Grievous since that goes by taking damage.

    Even without that though the composition should still work pretty much as I described I think since it doesn't rely on Pao's basic attack being used anyway.

    Raid bosses specifically state when they take damage not when attacked or hit by ability.

    Use basic attack and basic ability is the same thing just lack of consistent wording as with many other things in this game.

    Agree he might make have a use in the p1 damage loop. Offense up and at least 2 damage each time.

    Aye, that's what they state, but it's not entirely true or Zader's permadots would give the Rancor large amounts of turn meter as soon as he went just like on Grievous, and I haven't seen that happening. I'd say it's safe to assume that what raid bosses gain tm from is by no means universal, and I'd be willing to be that a triple attack from Pao would only give the Rancor 5% tm.
    @Woodroward
    That is because Dot's apply damage at the start of the turn before they make a move and they still have 100% TM, same as your characters. TM doen't go to 0 till you start you action.

    1. Reach 100% TM
    2. Turn start
    3. Dot's apply damage
    4. Action for turn is chosen
    5. TM drop's to 0% and chosen action is started.

    This isn't against the tank don't have one open to grab from there but same principle applies
    Notice Baze TM is still 100% when the Burning damage is done
    AS4hfhl.png
    1bnrNze.png

    Edit: Found someone else's video to show my point
    Hull TM is 100% when dot damage is done. If you are at 100% TM you can't gain anymore.
    y6x7bKP.png

    Griveous get the high amount of TM because of taking damage 7 times and tigger tactical manueving.

    Rey will actually give the Pig or rancor more than 5% TM when she uses Flurry of blows.


    Hmmm. That being the case makes me think that the inclusion of Sun Fac should make Zader viable on Grievous because his turn would start, he'd get the buff, AoE and have Sun Fac counter attack and dispel the buff before he ever got any speed or tm gain out of it. heck, it actually sounds like a perfect way to manage him.

    He gets the tm if he gets the buff or not. The buff is only part of it. The only way to prevent him from getting 100% TM on 7th hit is to hit him with TMR other than Jyn with the 7th hit.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Hmmm. That being the case makes me think that the inclusion of Sun Fac should make Zader viable on Grievous because his turn would start, he'd get the buff, AoE and have Sun Fac counter attack and dispel the buff before he ever got any speed or tm gain out of it. heck, it actually sounds like a perfect way to manage him.

    He gets the tm if he gets the buff or not. The buff is only part of it. The only way to prevent him from getting 100% TM on 7th hit is to hit him with TMR other than Jyn with the 7th hit.

    Not if it happens at the start of his turn with the DoTs as you just pointed out. He already has 100% tm so can't gain any. If the buff is dispelled as soon as he attacks on that turn, he would consistently gain 0% tm from his buff and ability once Zader's DoT's set up the instant buff on each of his turns unless you managed to do the 7 or more hits in between his turns.

    Thinking about it, Sun Fac seems like the answer to Grievous Buff no matter the comp, he'd just be most effective with Zader since that combo would prevent ALL tm gain by Grievous out of the buff instead of just some.

  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Hmmm. That being the case makes me think that the inclusion of Sun Fac should make Zader viable on Grievous because his turn would start, he'd get the buff, AoE and have Sun Fac counter attack and dispel the buff before he ever got any speed or tm gain out of it. heck, it actually sounds like a perfect way to manage him.

    He gets the tm if he gets the buff or not. The buff is only part of it. The only way to prevent him from getting 100% TM on 7th hit is to hit him with TMR other than Jyn with the 7th hit.

    Not if it happens at the start of his turn with the DoTs as you just pointed out. He already has 100% tm so can't gain any. If the buff is dispelled as soon as he attacks on that turn, he would consistently gain 0% tm from his buff and ability once Zader's DoT's set up the instant buff on each of his turns unless you managed to do the 7 or more hits in between his turns.

    Thinking about it, Sun Fac seems like the answer to Grievous Buff no matter the comp, he'd just be most effective with Zader since that combo would prevent ALL tm gain by Grievous out of the buff instead of just some.

    Tactical Maneuvering is a Mechanic and a buff.

    The Tactical maneuvering mechanic gives him the Turn meter every 7th time he takes damage. It also gives him the Tactical Maneuvering Buff.

    The Tactical maneuvering buff just gives him +25% offense and 30% TM if you attack one of his allies.

    The buff can be prevented with Buff Immunity and he will still gain the 100% TM from the mechanic on the 7th time taking damage.

    The TM gain from tactical maneuvering can only be prevented by hitting him with TMR other than Jyn on the 7th hit.

    The mechanic for Tactical maneuvering seems to be different than the mechanic for Fearsome Foe.

    Dot's and TD will not trigger the TM gain from Fearsome Foe because of what I showed above about DoT damage happening when TM is at 100%

    They somehow trigger the mechanic for Tactical maneuvering, I don't know how but they do and with Zader and 7+ dots he will keep going until he kills you. My only guess is there is a delay before Tactical Maneuvering mechanic kicks in.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Hmmm. That being the case makes me think that the inclusion of Sun Fac should make Zader viable on Grievous because his turn would start, he'd get the buff, AoE and have Sun Fac counter attack and dispel the buff before he ever got any speed or tm gain out of it. heck, it actually sounds like a perfect way to manage him.

    He gets the tm if he gets the buff or not. The buff is only part of it. The only way to prevent him from getting 100% TM on 7th hit is to hit him with TMR other than Jyn with the 7th hit.

    Not if it happens at the start of his turn with the DoTs as you just pointed out. He already has 100% tm so can't gain any. If the buff is dispelled as soon as he attacks on that turn, he would consistently gain 0% tm from his buff and ability once Zader's DoT's set up the instant buff on each of his turns unless you managed to do the 7 or more hits in between his turns.

    Thinking about it, Sun Fac seems like the answer to Grievous Buff no matter the comp, he'd just be most effective with Zader since that combo would prevent ALL tm gain by Grievous out of the buff instead of just some.

    Tactical Maneuvering is a Mechanic and a buff.

    The Tactical maneuvering mechanic gives him the Turn meter every 7th time he takes damage. It also gives him the Tactical Maneuvering Buff.

    The Tactical maneuvering buff just gives him +25% offense and 30% TM if you attack one of his allies.

    The buff can be prevented with Buff Immunity and he will still gain the 100% TM from the mechanic on the 7th time taking damage.

    The TM gain from tactical maneuvering can only be prevented by hitting him with TMR other than Jyn on the 7th hit.

    The mechanic for Tactical maneuvering seems to be different than the mechanic for Fearsome Foe.

    Dot's and TD will not trigger the TM gain from Fearsome Foe because of what I showed above about DoT damage happening when TM is at 100%

    They somehow trigger the mechanic for Tactical maneuvering, I don't know how but they do and with Zader and 7+ dots he will keep going until he kills you. My only guess is there is a delay before Tactical Maneuvering mechanic kicks in.
    They should trigger the mechanic for it, but by the mechanics, he shouldn't go over and over.

    This just makes me want to test it. That's actually why I made a separate topic about this. To not take over this older thread with a new topic.

  • So has anyone found out if Pao gains 5% TM from a triple attack or 15% TM? Lol
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    @scuba mentioned that he had seen a video where he only gained 5% on his multiple damage attack.
  • Just thinking, but wouldn't zPao be a waste of precious zeta mats?
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