Really, have you forgotten while Zaul was necessary in the first place? Let me remind you, the Rogue One movie came out and to try to sale as many characters from the movie (almost all lightside for some reason) devs decided to cram almost all the abilities in the game in just 2 toons. Lo and behold the Chaze meta appeared, to complete and not replace the Wiggs meta that was in full effect since August '16. After some months when the time finally came to shift the meta from rebels, Krennic and DT were release. But surprise, surprise they failed miserably, even though their kit would have been very good, close to OP, if they would have been released before Chaze.
So now, after the devs painted themselves into a corner, they only had 2 choices: either the sensible one to tweak the rebels, but that would have made the people in the title mad, or to release/ rework something even more OP than rebels, which invariably made the people in the title mad.
Anyway after this little recent history lesson, let me ask you, how can you possible complain about the necessary evil while being fine with the root cause that made it necessary in the first place? Chaze aren't OP, just versatile, because of Boba and B2? Horse manure, B2 and Boba
were just enough to seem they were a challenge but not good enough to actually threaten Rebel users, just like you like it, that was why you were dominating leader boards wasn't it? Heck even with Zaul lead added to this counters Chaze is still plenty represented in the leader boards. Zaul is killing every other team outside Rex triple cleanse (which actually include your faves) ? Guess what, that is exactly what rebels were doing since Wiggs. Over 100 toons made irrelevant and unplayable in arenas by 2 OP pairs of rebels. That is exactly what Wiggs is still doing on lower levels now, after a year.
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT:
recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it.
recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
To answer the OP's question about why people don't complain about Chaze as much as Zaul, it's because of availablility. Zaul is much easier to get and more common, so more people are fighting him. Chaze is still limited to the very top of most shards, where the players finished high in tournaments or spent to get him. In a month or two, when most of the player base actually has Baze, the complaining will start.
Really, have you forgotten while Zaul was necessary in the first place? Let me remind you, the Rogue One movie came out and to try to sale as many characters from the movie (almost all lightside for some reason) devs decided to cram almost all the abilities in the game in just 2 toons. Lo and behold the Chaze meta appeared, to complete and not replace the Wiggs meta that was in full effect since August '16. After some months when the time finally came to shift the meta from rebels, Krennic and DT were release. But surprise, surprise they failed miserably, even though their kit would have been very good, close to OP, if they would have been released before Chaze.
So now, after the devs painted themselves into a corner, they only had 2 choices: either the sensible one to tweak the rebels, but that would have made the people in the title mad, or to release/ rework something even more OP than rebels, which invariably made the people in the title mad.
Anyway after this little recent history lesson, let me ask you, how can you possible complain about the necessary evil while being fine with the root cause that made it necessary in the first place? Chaze aren't OP, just versatile, because of Boba and B2? Horse manure, B2 and Boba
were just enough to seem they were a challenge but not good enough to actually threaten Rebel users, just like you like it, that was why you were dominating leader boards wasn't it? Heck even with Zaul lead added to this counters Chaze is still plenty represented in the leader boards. Zaul is killing every other team outside Rex triple cleanse (which actually include your faves) ? Guess what, that is exactly what rebels were doing since Wiggs. Over 100 toons made irrelevant and unplayable in arenas by 2 OP pairs of rebels. That is exactly what Wiggs is still doing on lower levels now, after a year.
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
Okay, have you even read the post? How to beat Chaze was never the topic.
Also i will repeat for the third time: Before i changed to Zaul leadership I ran EP B2 Boba TFP Vader, look exactly your counters, and with mods good enough to finish first place in the last days, I couldn't enter top 10. Yesterday I finished on first place.
BTW how many of those counters do you use in your team?
Really, have you forgotten while Zaul was necessary in the first place? Let me remind you, the Rogue One movie came out and to try to sale as many characters from the movie (almost all lightside for some reason) devs decided to cram almost all the abilities in the game in just 2 toons. Lo and behold the Chaze meta appeared, to complete and not replace the Wiggs meta that was in full effect since August '16. After some months when the time finally came to shift the meta from rebels, Krennic and DT were release. But surprise, surprise they failed miserably, even though their kit would have been very good, close to OP, if they would have been released before Chaze.
So now, after the devs painted themselves into a corner, they only had 2 choices: either the sensible one to tweak the rebels, but that would have made the people in the title mad, or to release/ rework something even more OP than rebels, which invariably made the people in the title mad.
Anyway after this little recent history lesson, let me ask you, how can you possible complain about the necessary evil while being fine with the root cause that made it necessary in the first place? Chaze aren't OP, just versatile, because of Boba and B2? Horse manure, B2 and Boba
were just enough to seem they were a challenge but not good enough to actually threaten Rebel users, just like you like it, that was why you were dominating leader boards wasn't it? Heck even with Zaul lead added to this counters Chaze is still plenty represented in the leader boards. Zaul is killing every other team outside Rex triple cleanse (which actually include your faves) ? Guess what, that is exactly what rebels were doing since Wiggs. Over 100 toons made irrelevant and unplayable in arenas by 2 OP pairs of rebels. That is exactly what Wiggs is still doing on lower levels now, after a year.
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
Also if don't mind asking, how many teams with the comp you listed do you have in top 50?
@danflorian1984
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
@danflorian1984
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
I couldn't beat Chaze teams. With Zaul teams I didn't have as many problems, for some reason. Even if I despise the Zaul meta almost as much the rebel meta I had to use it just so I can compete against the rebels in my shard.
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT: recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it. recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Lol saying the same thing twice doesn't make the list seem any longer.
Btw Chaze does good dps. Chirrut hits like a truck.
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
The Chaze combo is genuinely just incredibly obnoxious and frustrating to play against.
It just seems as if it doesn't have any weakness to it and no way of getting past it. Debuffs are turned against you, and their counter chance means their damage is bloody relentless. Furthermore, they are in literally every arena team, no matter whether they have synergy with the other toons or not. It seems crazy to me that two characters can be so broken without getting a nerf for such a long time.
How can having auto-taunt, % max health gain, % max health damage, counter chance, heal over time effects, calling to assist, dispells and tenacity up in two characters be considered at all fair?
Credits go to Gabbuzzzzz17 for making this post on Reddit.
People are going to complain about the meta toons they don't have as long as this game will keep running. Once they get the toon themselves they'll stop moaning. Same thing with every game with "best characters", not just SWGOH.
@danflorian1984
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
I couldn't beat Chaze teams. With Zaul teams I didn't have as many problems, for some reason. Even if I despise the Zaul meta almost as much the rebel meta I had to use it just so I can compete against the rebels in my shard.
well, that's probably because you didn't have an insta-taunter of your own. Sith under maul always going first kinda fixes that problem. I was rather succesfull with a DS oriented team similar to yours, but including shore, when the rebels were dominating my leaderboard.
Imo you can't really compare teams with exclusive characters like baze and chirrut to some extent with normal teams without any exclusive characters. Currently we've got alot of options to equalize the playing field, mainly zeta's, wich chaze doesn't have (yet). You choose to go with zMaul, but there are quite a few teams that make light work of the average chaze team.
I'm actually happy that chaze is still viable/top tier, it brings diversity to my leaderboard.
The Chaze combo is genuinely just incredibly obnoxious and frustrating to play against.
It just seems as if it doesn't have any weakness to it and no way of getting past it. Debuffs are turned against you, and their counter chance means their damage is bloody relentless. Furthermore, they are in literally every arena team, no matter whether they have synergy with the other toons or not. It seems crazy to me that two characters can be so broken without getting a nerf for such a long time.
How can having auto-taunt, % max health gain, % max health damage, counter chance, heal over time effects, calling to assist, dispells and tenacity up in two characters be considered at all fair?
Credits go to Gabbuzzzzz17 for making this post on Reddit.
Word!
'How can having auto-taunt, % max health gain, % max health damage, counter chance, heal over time effects, calling to assist, dispells and tenacity up in two characters be considered at all fair?"
Apparently because of Boba
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
The trooper rework is actually looking pretty good - there's a lot of potential there vs. Chaze even as a counter team....High damage output, great health.
@danflorian1984
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
I couldn't beat Chaze teams. With Zaul teams I didn't have as many problems, for some reason. Even if I despise the Zaul meta almost as much the rebel meta I had to use it just so I can compete against the rebels in my shard.
well, that's probably because you didn't have an insta-taunter of your own. Sith under maul always going first kinda fixes that problem. I was rather succesfull with a DS oriented team similar to yours, but including shore, when the rebels were dominating my leaderboard.
Imo you can't really compare teams with exclusive characters like baze and chirrut to some extent with normal teams without any exclusive characters. Currently we've got alot of options to equalize the playing field, mainly zeta's, wich chaze doesn't have (yet). You choose to go with zMaul, but there are quite a few teams that make light work of the average chaze team.
I'm actually happy that chaze is still viable/top tier, it brings diversity to my leaderboard.
Yeah my lack of a pretaunter was my problem. I always went first, no matter the leadership, I use Zaul as a leader just so my EP survives Biggs oneshoot. Now that I think, the reason why I didn't have any troubles against Zaul is thjat they lacked a pre-taunter too, so my TFP was not dead weight.
About diversity I will have to take u at your word, in my shard with the exception of a Scoundrels team, all other teams on top are either Rebels. Rex+ Chaze or Zaul. About 2 rebel teams for a Zaul one.
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
The trooper rework is actually looking pretty good - there's a lot of potential there vs. Chaze even as a counter team....High damage output, great health.
@danflorian1984
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
I couldn't beat Chaze teams. With Zaul teams I didn't have as many problems, for some reason. Even if I despise the Zaul meta almost as much the rebel meta I had to use it just so I can compete against the rebels in my shard.
well, that's probably because you didn't have an insta-taunter of your own. Sith under maul always going first kinda fixes that problem. I was rather succesfull with a DS oriented team similar to yours, but including shore, when the rebels were dominating my leaderboard.
Imo you can't really compare teams with exclusive characters like baze and chirrut to some extent with normal teams without any exclusive characters. Currently we've got alot of options to equalize the playing field, mainly zeta's, wich chaze doesn't have (yet). You choose to go with zMaul, but there are quite a few teams that make light work of the average chaze team.
I'm actually happy that chaze is still viable/top tier, it brings diversity to my leaderboard.
Yeah my lack of a pretaunter was my problem. I always went first, no matter the leadership, I use Zaul as a leader just so my EP survives Biggs oneshoot. Now that I think, the reason why I didn't have any troubles against Zaul is thjat they lacked a pre-taunter too, so my TFP was not dead weight.
About diversity I will have to take u at your word, in my shard with the exception of a Scoundrels team, all other teams on top are either Rebels. Rex+ Chaze or Zaul. About 2 rebel teams for a Zaul one.
i don't know what you did wrong, outspeeding a rebel team with an empire team + boba ussually means an easy win.
Plenty of counters to Chaze. Shock, Stun, Ability Block, Healing Immunity, all viable. Chirrut's cleanse has a 4 turn cool down. You have DN, B2 and Boba. Savage can help too and TFP in the right setup. They are a great pair, no doubt, but far from unbeatable. On well developed older shards they are part of some teams, but not all. Just need some strategy against them. Until 2 weeks ago, I didn't run them, but could beat them and actually looked forward to playing them. Boba is a great counter. Either AB off the start, or let the buff's and debuffs stack and OHK with Execute. zVader also works. Culling Blade can take them out no problem. I would rather play a Chaze team than a zMaul team. Now I a run a Boba (L) + Wiggs + Chaze because zMaul is losing traction because of Rex and the easiest way to beat Rex teams is with AB and single point attacks to limit TM gain from crits. And when I crit, I make sure it counts under the Fett lead.
What zMaul did was allow teams with inferior speed secondary mods to compete because of the TM gain and provide a lead which is a completely RNG based, like Dooku and Ben before him. Rex did the same thing for TM gain. zMaul time has come not because of Chaze or R2, but because of Rex.
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
The trooper rework is actually looking pretty good - there's a lot of potential there vs. Chaze even as a counter team....High damage output, great health.
Well you know that saying: Seeing is believing
No I've seen some clips from friends that had them built - Veers with Snow and Death trooper can bomb on Chaze / R2. Snowtrooper can spam 20k crit AOE boms as he gets crit damage up and O up from his AOE. I'm pushing up snow / death and veers right now to get ahead of the super tanky Chaze / R2 comps as they roll in. If you don't have Chaze you have to build other stuff to adapt to its newest form.
I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT: recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it. recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Lol saying the same thing twice doesn't make the list seem any longer.
Btw Chaze does good dps. Chirrut hits like a truck.
This. Chirrut is an "Attacker" for a reason. People don't think so because he heals and is often low stars - but at 7* he crushes skulls.
Also keep in mind that Chirrut recovers health so fast, TM doesn't matter to him. He also hands out HoTs like Halloween candy to his team. Citing TFP and Ventress as counters is laughable - you never see either in high level arena. So you're left with Nihilus, Boba, B2 and Chaze as there own mirror counter. Hardly an exhaustive list.
Anyone suggesting Chaze isn't meta (and slightly OP) isn't paying attention. And the only reason they aren't showing up in SWGOH.gg as high usage toons is because they are both hard farms.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT: recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it. recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Lol saying the same thing twice doesn't make the list seem any longer.
Btw Chaze does good dps. Chirrut hits like a truck.
This. Chirrut is an "Attacker" for a reason. People don't think so because he heals and is often low stars - but at 7* he crushes skulls.
Also keep in mind that Chirrut recovers health so fast, TM doesn't matter to him. He also hands out HoTs like Halloween candy to his team. Citing TFP and Ventress as counters is laughable - you never see either in high level arena. So you're left with Nihilus, Boba, B2 and Chaze as there own mirror counter. Hardly an exhaustive list.
Anyone suggesting Chaze isn't meta (and slightly OP) isn't paying attention. And the only reason they aren't showing up in SWGOH.gg as high usage toons is because they are both hard farms.
Nothing is ever gonna b fair. Life isn't fair. Everything has their counter. Some toons r far more useful than others in certain comps and some r far more useful in nearly every comp.
There have always been just 2 strats in arena. Fast, high damage...ambush style and slow, prolonged survivability...turtle style.
If u wanna complain, Nihilus destroyed 1 of only 2 strats. He made 50% of comps worthless. Chaze is nothing in comparison.
Definitely agree. Chaze is far and above the best pair of toons in game. It literally does not matter what team they go into. They most definitely are a big oops and now the devs find themselves making entire faction passes and coming up with new entire team synergies just to compete with those two.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
The trooper rework is actually looking pretty good - there's a lot of potential there vs. Chaze even as a counter team....High damage output, great health.
Well you know that saying: Seeing is believing
No I've seen some clips from friends that had them built - Veers with Snow and Death trooper can bomb on Chaze / R2. Snowtrooper can spam 20k crit AOE boms as he gets crit damage up and O up from his AOE. I'm pushing up snow / death and veers right now to get ahead of the super tanky Chaze / R2 comps as they roll in. If you don't have Chaze you have to build other stuff to adapt to its newest form.
I have only DT somewhat developed: 6*, g8, level 64 since I was planning to replace my Vader with him. Veers, and the rest of troopers I have g1-4 and the shards to take them only to 4*. That is without Magma, him I can take to 2* .
Well I guess is back to the drawing board. I already changed my teams completely 2 times just to deal with 2 toons (Wiggs) and part of my third team to deal with Chaze. Once again an complete overhaul. You would think that this is proof enough of the rebels OPness.:) It must be nice to just use more or less the same team, just needing to add from time the next OP (rebel) toon that is released.
Saw a video a while back with GeoSpy OHK a 7* Baze, got my GS 7* and Chaze more or less disappeared from my bord, would be glad to see them come back, so I can try OHK Baze myself
I'm Danish , Leader of the Space Slug Alliance , living the SlugLife , My collection
Chaze doesn't stop my extremely hard farmed ZETA RESISTANCE and extremely hard farmed FULL ZETA FIRST ORDER teams from being able to take a single turn.
I second this.
No experience with running FO teams, but I've been running resistance since a couple weeks after the Finn zeta went live. Chaze/Wiggs teams were a perfectly safe match for me, while zVaders were very risky, especially the version where TFP and Sid could both go before my Poe. So, the "zMaul was a necessary adjustment" argument doesn't hold water. A bunch of Dec '15 released characters handled Chaze/Wiggs just fine, while being balanced out by another popular squad. And if Maul's zeta was intended to be another option, a dark side option, it was the clumsiest, most poorly thought-out option ever, because it drove off the zVaders and completely destroyed the zFinns.
Chaze doesn't stop my extremely hard farmed ZETA RESISTANCE and extremely hard farmed FULL ZETA FIRST ORDER teams from being able to take a single turn.
I second this.
No experience with running FO teams, but I've been running resistance since a couple weeks after the Finn zeta went live. Chaze/Wiggs teams were a perfectly safe match for me, while zVaders were very risky, especially the version where TFP and Sid could both go before my Poe. So, the "zMaul was a necessary adjustment" argument doesn't hold water. A bunch of Dec '15 released characters handled Chaze/Wiggs just fine, while being balanced out by another popular squad. And if Maul's zeta was intended to be another option, a dark side option, it was the clumsiest, most poorly thought-out option ever, because it drove off the zVaders and completely destroyed the zFinns.
And even though there were top resistance or FO teams that could handle Chaze, the meta was not Resistance or FO. The meta was still Chaze. Only after Maul got his zeta the meta finally shifted after more than a half of a year. Because while Resistance or FO were viable, there was to much work to make them viable, most players preferred to continue using what has taken them to the top, the team way easier to build that was just as good.
Replies
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT:
recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it.
recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Okay, have you even read the post? How to beat Chaze was never the topic.
Also i will repeat for the third time: Before i changed to Zaul leadership I ran EP B2 Boba TFP Vader, look exactly your counters, and with mods good enough to finish first place in the last days, I couldn't enter top 10. Yesterday I finished on first place.
BTW how many of those counters do you use in your team?
Here is my profile, you can see the difference between using Zaul and just your counters:
https://swgoh.gg/u/danflorian1984/
Also if don't mind asking, how many teams with the comp you listed do you have in top 50?
I still don't get it, you're now using zMaul and finish high, yet chaze is the real problem? O_o
Were you not able to beat chaze teams with your previous line-up? Or weren't you able to beat zMaul teams with your previous line-up? or neither of them, or both of them?
You were on top of your leaderboard already with that palp lead team.
I couldn't beat Chaze teams. With Zaul teams I didn't have as many problems, for some reason. Even if I despise the Zaul meta almost as much the rebel meta I had to use it just so I can compete against the rebels in my shard.
BTW, I think they're cool and they don't **** me off, but they're definitely a misstep in this game.
Lol saying the same thing twice doesn't make the list seem any longer.
Btw Chaze does good dps. Chirrut hits like a truck.
The saddest part in all this is that, with the exception of the sith, they actually failed to make the new or reworked toons actualy being able to compete with those 2. Especially after buffing them with R2.
Word!
well, that's probably because you didn't have an insta-taunter of your own. Sith under maul always going first kinda fixes that problem. I was rather succesfull with a DS oriented team similar to yours, but including shore, when the rebels were dominating my leaderboard.
Imo you can't really compare teams with exclusive characters like baze and chirrut to some extent with normal teams without any exclusive characters. Currently we've got alot of options to equalize the playing field, mainly zeta's, wich chaze doesn't have (yet). You choose to go with zMaul, but there are quite a few teams that make light work of the average chaze team.
I'm actually happy that chaze is still viable/top tier, it brings diversity to my leaderboard.
'How can having auto-taunt, % max health gain, % max health damage, counter chance, heal over time effects, calling to assist, dispells and tenacity up in two characters be considered at all fair?"
Apparently because of Boba
The trooper rework is actually looking pretty good - there's a lot of potential there vs. Chaze even as a counter team....High damage output, great health.
Yeah my lack of a pretaunter was my problem. I always went first, no matter the leadership, I use Zaul as a leader just so my EP survives Biggs oneshoot. Now that I think, the reason why I didn't have any troubles against Zaul is thjat they lacked a pre-taunter too, so my TFP was not dead weight.
About diversity I will have to take u at your word, in my shard with the exception of a Scoundrels team, all other teams on top are either Rebels. Rex+ Chaze or Zaul. About 2 rebel teams for a Zaul one.
Well you know that saying: Seeing is believing
i don't know what you did wrong, outspeeding a rebel team with an empire team + boba ussually means an easy win.
What zMaul did was allow teams with inferior speed secondary mods to compete because of the TM gain and provide a lead which is a completely RNG based, like Dooku and Ben before him. Rex did the same thing for TM gain. zMaul time has come not because of Chaze or R2, but because of Rex.
DarthBarron (Kevin, aka KevWalker)
No I've seen some clips from friends that had them built - Veers with Snow and Death trooper can bomb on Chaze / R2. Snowtrooper can spam 20k crit AOE boms as he gets crit damage up and O up from his AOE. I'm pushing up snow / death and veers right now to get ahead of the super tanky Chaze / R2 comps as they roll in. If you don't have Chaze you have to build other stuff to adapt to its newest form.
This. Chirrut is an "Attacker" for a reason. People don't think so because he heals and is often low stars - but at 7* he crushes skulls.
Also keep in mind that Chirrut recovers health so fast, TM doesn't matter to him. He also hands out HoTs like Halloween candy to his team. Citing TFP and Ventress as counters is laughable - you never see either in high level arena. So you're left with Nihilus, Boba, B2 and Chaze as there own mirror counter. Hardly an exhaustive list.
Anyone suggesting Chaze isn't meta (and slightly OP) isn't paying attention. And the only reason they aren't showing up in SWGOH.gg as high usage toons is because they are both hard farms.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
define "meta" and "slightly OP"
There have always been just 2 strats in arena. Fast, high damage...ambush style and slow, prolonged survivability...turtle style.
If u wanna complain, Nihilus destroyed 1 of only 2 strats. He made 50% of comps worthless. Chaze is nothing in comparison.
I have only DT somewhat developed: 6*, g8, level 64 since I was planning to replace my Vader with him. Veers, and the rest of troopers I have g1-4 and the shards to take them only to 4*. That is without Magma, him I can take to 2*
Well I guess is back to the drawing board. I already changed my teams completely 2 times just to deal with 2 toons (Wiggs) and part of my third team to deal with Chaze. Once again an complete overhaul. You would think that this is proof enough of the rebels OPness.:) It must be nice to just use more or less the same team, just needing to add from time the next OP (rebel) toon that is released.
I second this.
No experience with running FO teams, but I've been running resistance since a couple weeks after the Finn zeta went live. Chaze/Wiggs teams were a perfectly safe match for me, while zVaders were very risky, especially the version where TFP and Sid could both go before my Poe. So, the "zMaul was a necessary adjustment" argument doesn't hold water. A bunch of Dec '15 released characters handled Chaze/Wiggs just fine, while being balanced out by another popular squad. And if Maul's zeta was intended to be another option, a dark side option, it was the clumsiest, most poorly thought-out option ever, because it drove off the zVaders and completely destroyed the zFinns.
And even though there were top resistance or FO teams that could handle Chaze, the meta was not Resistance or FO. The meta was still Chaze. Only after Maul got his zeta the meta finally shifted after more than a half of a year. Because while Resistance or FO were viable, there was to much work to make them viable, most players preferred to continue using what has taken them to the top, the team way easier to build that was just as good.