I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT:
recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it.
recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Don't have high DPS? Cmon dude I've seen chirrut hit for over 30k in arena and over 40k in some YouTube videos (plus an assist from baze). Be real here...
Whoever designed and/or approved it made history by showing exactly how not to design a game character in a competitve fighting game.
Giving two toons every good ability in game and then NOT realizing how that would effect all character releases afterwards in arena tells me they were designed for the sole purpose to get a quick boost in sales.
I'd say they're doing quite well, regardless of all the complaining. The game is designed to make money, not to be the best competative fighting game. It's a freemium game.
End of the day, chaze and maul are beatable without having to use chaze or maul.
I'm not one of those "good enough" people. Without chaze being OP they would have made soooooo much more money.
Imagine a game where FO, phoenix, resistence, troopers, etc were actually good teams in top of arenas. That would be a whole lot of spending going on in the last 6 months or whatever instead of people getting mad when they pay for a new team and then never use them except as one of many GW or haat/aat teams.
So much awesome potential in teams that I feel is wasted because of a bad decision way back when with chaze. Give people a reason to buy stuff and the spice will flow!
i doubt that to be honest. I'm f2p so i wouldn't know for certain if i would have bought more characters if more characters were viable at the same time, but my best guess is that i wouldn't have.
The everlasting power creep makes sure people will continue to buy stuff, having a few teams being released that aren't OP is not such a bad thing. You could argue that powercreep is bad and balance is good, but that most certianly isn't the business model of this game.
Some people want to save the game though, not play good for 5 years then game is dead because of poor choices by the heartless devs.
5 years for a mobile game is an eternity. Have you ever played the same game for more than 3 years? any game, not just mobile games.
Even the best of the best of the best game gets old sooner or later, regardless of the decisions made by the devs.
I have played the same game for even 10 years+ I play until it's final moments, you must not have ever enjoyed a game that much.
This isn't 2012 anymore, mobile games end up making more every year, you are an oldie in gaming market I see
I agree about chaze teams, no 2 characters should have 10 total abilities that synergize with at least half back n forth so well that the 2 characters can be put in any team and be god-like.
These 2 characters help destroy almost any counter to a counter, just add your mix of 3 new meta characters with chaze and you are golden, zaul meta? Add a chaze, rex meta? Add a chaze, r2-d2? Add a chaze, gk? Add a chaze, zavage? Add a chaze, zylo? Add a chaze. Leadership skill doesn't even matter add a chaze, nihilus meta? Add a chaze
May I direct you to the "nerf wiggs/rey/fotp/Sun Fac/Rex" threads. All of them are complaining about how a single character shouldn't be so OP at what they do.
chaze:
cleanses
heals
taunts
counterattacks
grants buffs up to the end of the screen
Tenacity Up.
Chaze DOES NOT:
recover protection
remove TM
have high DPS
have a reliable way to grant Tenacity Up: TFp ruins it.
recover prot
and is vulnerable to Nihilus's basic, Boba's execute, B2/Echo/ventress/baze's aoe buff wipe.
Don't have high DPS? Cmon dude I've seen chirrut hit for over 30k in arena and over 40k in some YouTube videos (plus an assist from baze). Be real here...
Chirrut only has high DPS when a full team is buffed, on a 3 turn cooldown. He is an attacker after all. His DPS is on Par with single attacks from Vader and Fett against stack buffs/debuffs.
But face a rex lead with gk, chaze, and nihilus Vader and zoba really don't matter against these teams that don't have chaze them selves.....you need chaze or you'll get beat, you need gk or you'll get beat, you need nihilus or you'll get beat chaze is actually the biggest difference right here though bc the synergy is ridiculous and god-like that if you do not have him when facing teams like This? You'll get beat
But face a rex lead with gk, chaze, and nihilus Vader and zoba really don't matter against these teams that don't have chaze them selves.....you need chaze or you'll get beat, you need gk or you'll get beat, you need nihilus or you'll get beat chaze is actually the biggest difference right here though bc the synergy is ridiculous and god-like that if you do not have him when facing teams like This? You'll get beat
nah, that team can be beat with multiple teams without chaze or nihilus. Or do you mean they'll beat you when they're attacking? in that case pretty much every team is OP because the AI aint making the brightest decisions.
Seriously.... Learn how to counter Chaze! There are actually far more op toons in the game. They are really good, but they're not Zaul with SA before R2 good.
Actually there isn't much I can do when no matter what I don't have 90+ speed mods
Most I can ever manage on any character and it's only two is...75-78
You don't have all the time in the world to farm the units you want when the meta shifts in 2 months
If chaze did not exist I could win without their speed of units easily I've done it before
When their chaze teams where at most 5* I destroyed them quite easily with zoba, but 7* is too much...even the smallest amount means you win or lose there are now 4 7* chaze teams in my top 10 now with 220 speed nihilus and 240+ chirrut!!! With rex at a laughable 230+ speed just over my boba
Its not that you can't beat them. They just do far to much than two characters with synergy should. It makes new characters seem bad because you know that those two boring synergy characters all have what you need to finish high end arena.
Face it, there is no counter to Chaze that makes you not want to use them in arena. How would you make a new counter to such characters?
Lol the simple fact that months have past and chaze is still a relevant topic shows that something is up especially after all the new toons that have released since then that haven't off set chaze viability
Its not that you can't beat them. They just do far to much than two characters with synergy should. It makes new characters seem bad because you know that those two boring synergy characters all have what you need to finish high end arena.
Face it, there is no counter to Chaze that makes you not want to use them in arena. How would you make a new counter to such characters?
Seriously.... Learn how to counter Chaze! There are actually far more op toons in the game. They are really good, but they're not Zaul with SA before R2 good.
Please, tell me who those toons are. I would love to use them.
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
Yeah this. Chaze can be annoying/tough, but they don't have a horrible mechanic. Zaul, on the other hand, is all about dodge. If there's one thing those of us who lived through the Old Ben/Dooku meta never thought, it's "man do I miss a good dodge meta!" I don't care about any of the other parts of Zaul's lead.
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
Yeah this. Chaze can be annoying/tough, but they don't have a horrible mechanic. Zaul, on the other hand, is all about dodge. If there's one thing those of us who lived through the Old Ben/Dooku meta never thought, it's "man do I miss a good dodge meta!" I don't care about any of the other parts of Zaul's lead.
Which is why people use zMaul + Chaze teams... (Or Rex + Chaze as counter)
Maul is the best place for ftp players right now because of the RNG. If you are using Wiggs you are whale food
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
Yeah this. Chaze can be annoying/tough, but they don't have a horrible mechanic. Zaul, on the other hand, is all about dodge. If there's one thing those of us who lived through the Old Ben/Dooku meta never thought, it's "man do I miss a good dodge meta!" I don't care about any of the other parts of Zaul's lead.
Which is why people use zMaul + Chaze teams... (Or Rex + Chaze as counter)
Maul is the best place for ftp players right now because of the RNG. If you are using Wiggs you are whale food
Actually, I disagree. Maul is not a great place for F2P to be, because it's a very meta-specific comp. Rex is better for F2P because he's useable in any number of team comps, has shown longevity through just about every meta, works well in just about every game mode, doesn't require a precious zeta, and will be someone you can use long-term.
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
Yeah this. Chaze can be annoying/tough, but they don't have a horrible mechanic. Zaul, on the other hand, is all about dodge. If there's one thing those of us who lived through the Old Ben/Dooku meta never thought, it's "man do I miss a good dodge meta!" I don't care about any of the other parts of Zaul's lead.
Which is why people use zMaul + Chaze teams... (Or Rex + Chaze as counter)
Maul is the best place for ftp players right now because of the RNG. If you are using Wiggs you are whale food
Actually, I disagree. Maul is not a great place for F2P to be, because it's a very meta-specific comp. Rex is better for F2P because he's useable in any number of team comps, has shown longevity through just about every meta, works well in just about every game mode, doesn't require a precious zeta, and will be someone you can use long-term.
Ok, yea, rex is ftp too so maybe you are right about that, but I still think the RNG have something to say when you choose who to fight
The thing is zaul is all RNG and that's what frustrates people. At least I can go into a match agasiint chaze with a game plan, vs zaul I might as well throw it on auto because it's just a trainwreck of RNG.
Pretty much. Chaze is pretty easy to deal with in rebel/rogue one teams. You still have b2 dispel and apply buff immunity and they are pretty easy to kill. You need to have some really bad luck (i.e. a couple of the dispells/BI to fail) to lose to those teams. You need to hide them behind Rex and GK.
Chaze ( and zaul, triple cleanser, DN with a high health dooku and pretty much every team that is considered OP) teams are hard when you only have one team and can't make adjustments to bring various combos of damage dealers, dispellers, critical damagers,ability/bluff blockers, stunners, and so on to match up well.
Well if anyone had any doubts about the validity of this thread please see the SnakesOnAPlane thread about R2 vs different teams. You can see what Chaze + R2 is capable.
Also all the FO and Resistance users, good luck against Chaze2 + any 2 toons, you gonna need ot. Hey but at least Zaul will not be a problem anymore, there will be so much diversity. There eill be FO teams running Phasma R2 Chaze DN, there will be Resistance teams running Finn or Poe with R2 chaze DN. All kind of crazy combinations
Really, have you forgotten while Zaul was necessary in the first place? Let me remind you, the Rogue One movie came out and to try to sale as many characters from the movie (almost all lightside for some reason) devs decided to cram almost all the abilities in the game in just 2 toons. Lo and behold the Chaze meta appeared, to complete and not replace the Wiggs meta that was in full effect since August '16. After some months when the time finally came to shift the meta from rebels, Krennic and DT were release. But surprise, surprise they failed miserably, even though their kit would have been very good, close to OP, if they would have been released before Chaze.
So now, after the devs painted themselves into a corner, they only had 2 choices: either the sensible one to tweak the rebels, but that would have made the people in the title mad, or to release/ rework something even more OP than rebels, which invariably made the people in the title mad.
Anyway after this little recent history lesson, let me ask you, how can you possible complain about the necessary evil while being fine with the root cause that made it necessary in the first place? Chaze aren't OP, just versatile, because of Boba and B2? Horse manure, B2 and Boba
were just enough to seem they were a challenge but not good enough to actually threaten Rebel users, just like you like it, that was why you were dominating leader boards wasn't it? Heck even with Zaul lead added to this counters Chaze is still plenty represented in the leader boards. Zaul is killing every other team outside Rex triple cleanse (which actually include your faves) ? Guess what, that is exactly what rebels were doing since Wiggs. Over 100 toons made irrelevant and unplayable in arenas by 2 OP pairs of rebels. That is exactly what Wiggs is still doing on lower levels now, after a year.
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
Okay, have you even read the post? How to beat Chaze was never the topic.
Also i will repeat for the third time: Before i changed to Zaul leadership I ran EP B2 Boba TFP Vader, look exactly your counters, and with mods good enough to finish first place in the last days, I couldn't enter top 10. Yesterday I finished on first place.
BTW how many of those counters do you use in your team?
Really, have you forgotten while Zaul was necessary in the first place? Let me remind you, the Rogue One movie came out and to try to sale as many characters from the movie (almost all lightside for some reason) devs decided to cram almost all the abilities in the game in just 2 toons. Lo and behold the Chaze meta appeared, to complete and not replace the Wiggs meta that was in full effect since August '16. After some months when the time finally came to shift the meta from rebels, Krennic and DT were release. But surprise, surprise they failed miserably, even though their kit would have been very good, close to OP, if they would have been released before Chaze.
So now, after the devs painted themselves into a corner, they only had 2 choices: either the sensible one to tweak the rebels, but that would have made the people in the title mad, or to release/ rework something even more OP than rebels, which invariably made the people in the title mad.
Anyway after this little recent history lesson, let me ask you, how can you possible complain about the necessary evil while being fine with the root cause that made it necessary in the first place? Chaze aren't OP, just versatile, because of Boba and B2? Horse manure, B2 and Boba
were just enough to seem they were a challenge but not good enough to actually threaten Rebel users, just like you like it, that was why you were dominating leader boards wasn't it? Heck even with Zaul lead added to this counters Chaze is still plenty represented in the leader boards. Zaul is killing every other team outside Rex triple cleanse (which actually include your faves) ? Guess what, that is exactly what rebels were doing since Wiggs. Over 100 toons made irrelevant and unplayable in arenas by 2 OP pairs of rebels. That is exactly what Wiggs is still doing on lower levels now, after a year.
okay, this is the most **** thread all day.
B2 Nihilus Boba TFP EP Buff block and heal immunity. There's your counters.
Are you asking for another droid meta? Because only droid users are this whiny.
Okay, have you even read the post? How to beat Chaze was never the topic.
Also i will repeat for the third time: Before i changed to Zaul leadership I ran EP B2 Boba TFP Vader, look exactly your counters, and with mods good enough to finish first place in the last days, I couldn't enter top 10. Yesterday I finished on first place.
BTW how many of those counters do you use in your team?
Thats what I thought. Almost always when people talk about counters they don't actually use them. Like in this instance, if they were actually good you would have use them, not Chaze. And that is besides the fact sometimes on offense they do not work as good as on the AI controlled defense that has a way better RNG.
I now that Zaul is a counter, at least for a little while still, I'd argue that he is the only real counter besides teams with multiple zetas. Yeah we are half a year in 2017, and since 4th May R2 was released all debuffing teams in game took a major hit, that includes all your debuffing counters. So if you remove debuffing counters with what do you remain? Trible cleanse that actually has a Chaze of its own?
And even before R2, like I said I used or just tried almost all the counters found of forums minus Zader,there is a reason people were using Chaze instead them, that is besides Zaul off course.
Anyway all this discussions about counters are besides the point.
And my point is that I find strange how some people complain about Zaul while ignoring that, counters or no counters, Chaze in particular, rebels in general, were meta before Zaul, were at least meta-ish during Zaul, are meta now after Zaul and will probably continue being meta in the future, since apparently every new toon just makes them better.
Replies
Don't have high DPS? Cmon dude I've seen chirrut hit for over 30k in arena and over 40k in some YouTube videos (plus an assist from baze). Be real here...
Yes I did because I'm insane
Chirrut only has high DPS when a full team is buffed, on a 3 turn cooldown. He is an attacker after all. His DPS is on Par with single attacks from Vader and Fett against stack buffs/debuffs.
DarthBarron (Kevin, aka KevWalker)
nah, that team can be beat with multiple teams without chaze or nihilus. Or do you mean they'll beat you when they're attacking? in that case pretty much every team is OP because the AI aint making the brightest decisions.
Most I can ever manage on any character and it's only two is...75-78
You don't have all the time in the world to farm the units you want when the meta shifts in 2 months
If chaze did not exist I could win without their speed of units easily I've done it before
When their chaze teams where at most 5* I destroyed them quite easily with zoba, but 7* is too much...even the smallest amount means you win or lose there are now 4 7* chaze teams in my top 10 now with 220 speed nihilus and 240+ chirrut!!! With rex at a laughable 230+ speed just over my boba
Also I have no gk yet
Unfortunately you are right. Players hate because they paid too much for them, devs hate because they don't want to accept their mistake.
Face it, there is no counter to Chaze that makes you not want to use them in arena. How would you make a new counter to such characters?
You made the point clearly
Please, tell me who those toons are. I would love to use them.
Yeah this. Chaze can be annoying/tough, but they don't have a horrible mechanic. Zaul, on the other hand, is all about dodge. If there's one thing those of us who lived through the Old Ben/Dooku meta never thought, it's "man do I miss a good dodge meta!" I don't care about any of the other parts of Zaul's lead.
Which is why people use zMaul + Chaze teams... (Or Rex + Chaze as counter)
Maul is the best place for ftp players right now because of the RNG. If you are using Wiggs you are whale food
Actually, I disagree. Maul is not a great place for F2P to be, because it's a very meta-specific comp. Rex is better for F2P because he's useable in any number of team comps, has shown longevity through just about every meta, works well in just about every game mode, doesn't require a precious zeta, and will be someone you can use long-term.
Ok, yea, rex is ftp too so maybe you are right about that, but I still think the RNG have something to say when you choose who to fight
The difference is that Kylo sucks once he's asked to play defense. Chaze doesn't.
Pretty much. Chaze is pretty easy to deal with in rebel/rogue one teams. You still have b2 dispel and apply buff immunity and they are pretty easy to kill. You need to have some really bad luck (i.e. a couple of the dispells/BI to fail) to lose to those teams. You need to hide them behind Rex and GK.
Chaze ( and zaul, triple cleanser, DN with a high health dooku and pretty much every team that is considered OP) teams are hard when you only have one team and can't make adjustments to bring various combos of damage dealers, dispellers, critical damagers,ability/bluff blockers, stunners, and so on to match up well.
Also all the FO and Resistance users, good luck against Chaze2 + any 2 toons, you gonna need ot. Hey but at least Zaul will not be a problem anymore, there will be so much diversity. There eill be FO teams running Phasma R2 Chaze DN, there will be Resistance teams running Finn or Poe with R2 chaze DN. All kind of crazy combinations
I run Chaze, I think that's enough counters.
Thats what I thought. Almost always when people talk about counters they don't actually use them. Like in this instance, if they were actually good you would have use them, not Chaze. And that is besides the fact sometimes on offense they do not work as good as on the AI controlled defense that has a way better RNG.
We're half a year into 2017, and we have all sorts of counters now. zMaul, triple cleanse, zVader+ Boba all demolish Chaze teams.
My GW node 12 today was a zNihilus lead Chaze B2 maul team. To beat this team I had to send in a wiggs team to get rid of B2 before I sent in Chaze.
B2 is a counter, sep with relentless barrage.
And even before R2, like I said I used or just tried almost all the counters found of forums minus Zader,there is a reason people were using Chaze instead them, that is besides Zaul off course.
And my point is that I find strange how some people complain about Zaul while ignoring that, counters or no counters, Chaze in particular, rebels in general, were meta before Zaul, were at least meta-ish during Zaul, are meta now after Zaul and will probably continue being meta in the future, since apparently every new toon just makes them better.