I'm against NERF

Replies

  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
    fascizio wrote: »
    Game's been going for a year and a half and actual nerfs can be counted on your hands
    Thanks for proving my point that it has happened, even if it was 1 time.

    You can go take a look at CG's previous game and see the same thing, even though players on those forums whined for nerfs too.
    But it still happened already. You've lost this argument. Let it go.

    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.

    Don't bother engaging him. He continually insists he's right even when given factual evidence to the contrary. He literally once told me that evidence and facts are subjective. He has nothing of merit to say, you're better off spending your time elsewhere.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    fascizio wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    Game's been going for a year and a half and actual nerfs can be counted on your hands
    Thanks for proving my point that it has happened, even if it was 1 time.

    You can go take a look at CG's previous game and see the same thing, even though players on those forums whined for nerfs too.
    But it still happened already. You've lost this argument. Let it go.

    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.

    Don't bother engaging him. He continually insists he's right even when given factual evidence to the contrary. He literally once told me that evidence and facts are subjective. He has nothing of merit to say, you're better off spending your time elsewhere.
    Now you're just being salty. You even presented me my facts. It's okay to be wrong, we're human, that's how we learn.
  • sL_Spinoza wrote: »
    People invest time and money sometimes in a toon and a nerf is frustrating.

    Pvp is not the only game mode, an NERF can disrupt utility in AAT for example.

    For me the way the DEVs have solved this has been very appropriate: to launch a toon (not a leader) that balances the pvp a little.Let's see the examples:

    Old Ben - B2 and Zam
    Wiggs-Shore
    Zmaul - R2d2

    This is a very simple solution that does not displease the vast majority.

    No one feels like buying a Ferrari and shortly after forced to put a speed reducer.

    And what toon was added to balance Chaze ? Because both Krennic and DT failed miserably since Chaze are to powerful for only a toon or a pair to balance them, if that toon is not a leader like Zaul.

    Well u can counter them with gspy,zader ,boba,, b2, savage, palps, sf,nihilus, and many other
  • c3pe0n
    120 posts Member
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.

    While agree that things need to change Zader is not getting nerfed...He is getting fixed because it is not WAI. The problem is we as the players are beta testers...If they had thoroghly tested zader in all game aspects they would have noticed the ridiculous tm removal through phases in heroic pit and made adjustments before release. They let him go as is and now they need to fix it.. Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    But they still nerf, even if it is far or few in between because... that is mandatory for an ever-changing, RPG game.

    Guys are we seriously arguing this? This is not even an argument. That's just how these type of games work. O_o

    c3pe0n wrote: »
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.
    Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerfing_(video_gaming)

    In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change. The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages)

    It's a nerf, whether WAI or not. Let's not argue semantics.
  • One mans nerf is another devs balance. Now you know why more and more are going F2P. All we risk is time spent.
  • c3pe0n
    120 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    But they still nerf, even if it is far or few in between because... that is mandatory for an ever-changing, RPG game.

    Guys are we seriously arguing this? This is not even an argument. That's just how these type of games work. O_o

    c3pe0n wrote: »
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.
    Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerfing_(video_gaming)

    In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change. The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages)

    It's a nerf, whether WAI or not. Let's not argue semantics.

    how is fixing a bug that was not properly tested by the devs a nerf? They are not reducing something as they did with Barriss when she first came out...they are adjusting something that is not working as it is described in the game...

    They are not reducing Zaders power...they are making it work correctly.
  • Ig88isboss
    1752 posts Member
    Good for you.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    c3pe0n wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    But they still nerf, even if it is far or few in between because... that is mandatory for an ever-changing, RPG game.

    Guys are we seriously arguing this? This is not even an argument. That's just how these type of games work. O_o

    c3pe0n wrote: »
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.
    Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerfing_(video_gaming)

    In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change. The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages)

    It's a nerf, whether WAI or not. Let's not argue semantics.

    how is fixing a bug that was not properly tested by the devs a nerf? They are not reducing something as they did with Barriss when she first came out...they are adjusting something that is not working as it is described in the game...

    They are not reducing Zaders power...they are making it work correctly.
    Is making it work correctly reducing its power? Then it's a nerf. And that's TOTALLY okay! Nerfs are NECESSARY to bring things in line - like Zader!
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    4363 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.

    Correction: Zader is not getting nerfed. A bug correcting additional TMR in raids is getting fixed. When completed, Zader will do exactly what his description/mechanics state.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    But they still nerf, even if it is far or few in between because... that is mandatory for an ever-changing, RPG game.

    Guys are we seriously arguing this? This is not even an argument. That's just how these type of games work. O_o

    i'm not arguing. I didn't disagree, just added a litle context/perspective.
    Direct nerfs only happen when the devs deem it absolutely necessary. You'd think that would discourage people from post all those nerf threads, but unfortunately it hasn't.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    4363 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerfing_(video_gaming)

    In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change. The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages)

    It's a nerf, whether WAI or not. Let's not argue semantics.

    You just proved your argument as weak: "a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill". Absolutely nothing on Zader is getting modified. His mechanics stay absolutely the same. The "bug" is getting corrected to prevent additional actions from a toon(s) that allow for additional TMR that's not part of their kit.

    And relying off of "wiki", which is written by, yeup you guessed it, "us", is also weak. It's like touting the scriptures (also written by man) as law.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Not a nerf but a fix...very different.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerfing_(video_gaming)

    In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the power of a weapon or skill. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change. The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages)

    It's a nerf, whether WAI or not. Let's not argue semantics.

    You just proved your argument as weak: "a nerf is a chance to a game that decides the power of a weapon or skill". Absolutely nothing on Zader is getting modified. The raids are getting modified to prevent additional actions from a toon(s) that allow for additional TMR that's not part of their kit.
    So... an indirect nerf? He's still losing power in the raid after all. ;)
    leef wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    If you're against nerfs, you're either a whale or you just don't understand much of what's going on in this game.
    +1
    And, or, completely out of touch with game mechanics and how games (especially MMOs) work.

    yet the devs almost never nerf characters directly. So yea, there's that.
    But they still nerf, even if it is far or few in between because... that is mandatory for an ever-changing, RPG game.

    Guys are we seriously arguing this? This is not even an argument. That's just how these type of games work. O_o

    i'm not arguing. I didn't disagree, just added a litle context/perspective.
    Direct nerfs only happen when the devs deem it absolutely necessary. You'd think that would discourage people from post all those nerf threads, but unfortunately it hasn't.
    Sure.
    And relying off of "wiki", which is written by, yeup you guessed it, "us", is also weak. It's like touting the scriptures (also written by man) as law.
    Are you being serious? Scripture or not, wiki or yahoo, forum or live speak - sense is sense and logic is logic, no matter where it is written. That is the definition for the gaming terms. Would you like me to use dictionary next time?
  • Target
    9 posts Member
    What's wrong with Nerf? I always liked those Bats.

    Now Whiffle Bats.. Not so much. they broke too easy.
  • WompWompRat
    1833 posts Member
    It all boils down to whether or not nerfing toons will impact spending. As much as I agree that it definitely creates a more realistic playing field for F2P players, if I were the developers I would most likely do some kind of analysis of previous nerfs and any potential impact on things like revenue etc. before deciding on who and what to nerf.

    I also don't know if developers want to touch a hot potato/power creep tandem like chaze, especially in the case Chirrut when there was a good amount of crystals that changed hands to get them in a certain place.
  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
    Target wrote: »
    What's wrong with Nerf? I always liked those Bats.

    Now Whiffle Bats.. Not so much. they broke too easy.

    All it took was one crack too, then they were pretty much worthless.... smh
  • Juex777
    968 posts Member
    +1 totally against nerfing

    Nerfing is a terrible idea! Would give us no confidence in spending the massive time and energy it takes to build strong toons and teams.

    The approach of slowly making faction passes and introduces toons like R2 to break up monopolies in the meta makes sense and is appropriate.
  • Juex777
    968 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Devs have said repeatedly that it's not happening again. Why? Because people spent a bunch of money on Barriss back in the day, she was nerfed, and there were mass complaints and demands for refunds. My understanding of what happened was that Google and Apple basically agreed with the consumers -- EA/CG had changed the product that was purchased after-the-fact, and therefore refunds were owed.
    We're barking up an inevitable tree that things will not be nerfed or buffed. Vader is about to get nerfed for example (again). You cannot get away from this because this is an RPG game. Things will need to be changed whether you, me or anyone else likes it.

    Nerfs are not a bad thing. They are mandatory, just like mowing a lawn.

    Zader is most certainly not being nerfed. A bug in the Pit is being fixed. Bug fixes and nerfing a characters stats and abilities have nothing to do with one another.
  • Juex777
    968 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    i don't think we need to worry about nerfs that much in this game. The devs only chose to nerf on very rare ocasions.

    Agreed. I think this post was inspired by all the whining nerf posts recently. Maybe you ought to get suspended for a month from posting if you write 3 nerf posts in six months. :)
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    It all boils down to whether or not nerfing toons will impact spending. As much as I agree that it definitely creates a more realistic playing field for F2P players, if I were the developers I would most likely do some kind of analysis of previous nerfs and any potential impact on things like revenue etc. before deciding on who and what to nerf.

    I also don't know if developers want to touch a hot potato/power creep tandem like chaze, especially in the case Chirrut when there was a good amount of crystals that changed hands to get them in a certain place.
    I always respect your posts, even if I disagree. More should learn this temperament. However, what about the other players (many more in game than in the forums that you can imagine) who are frustrated by the Chaze epidemic? Do those players not matter? They spend on other products too.

    Either way, I think balance should be priority above all other things.

    This game isn't that far off from it, honestly. Just needs a few changes to a few characters and we'll be in a great spot.




    Juex777 wrote: »
    +1 totally against nerfing

    Nerfing is a terrible idea! Would give us no confidence in spending the massive time and energy it takes to build strong toons and teams.
    With all due respect, to me, this is just outrageously misguided and misinformed, and, or, unaware of games, mechanics, development etc.

    You cannot blame the developers if something slips out of whack. That will happen naturally. This is the nature of the beast, we cannot escape that. And so what? Nothing remains the same in games like these. You wouldn't want that either.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    With all due respect, to me, this is just outrageously misguided and misinformed, and, or, unaware of games, mechanics, development etc.

    You cannot blame the developers if something slips out of whack. That will happen naturally. This is the nature of the beast, we cannot escape that. And so what? Nothing remains the same in games like these. You wouldn't want that either.

    There are other options than straight up nerfing characters. These other options also seem to be the prefered choice. So apparantly the devs mostly agree with everyone that is against nerfs. I'm not sure why, i'm no expert. You make it seem you're guided, informed, aware of games, mechanics and development, so maybe you're the right person to explain why it's better to not nerf characters and look for other options to let the game evolve. Seeying as the devs released and reworked quite alot of characters that instantly became meta and almost never directly nerfed a character.
    Or you could just keep repeating that nerfs are mandatory and anyone who disagrees is misinformed, misguided etc etc.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • For some reason there seem to be more nerf Chaze threads popping up as of late so I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in from my f2p perspective.

    Chaze is balanced(yes I said it)

    There are many counters to Chaze such as DN, Vader, Boba, B2, zKylo just to name a few. Just because you lack the appropriate counters doesn't mean they're OP. When I had major problems against them I farmed counters and saved resources to max Chaze once they became farmable. Don't cry for a nerf because you mismanaged your resources. I'm not making this post because my arena sqaud is reliant on Chaze, quite the contrary tbh which is even further proof they aren't OP. For the devs to nerf Chaze now after all this time would be extremely disrespectful of everyone's time and resources.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    leef wrote: »
    With all due respect, to me, this is just outrageously misguided and misinformed, and, or, unaware of games, mechanics, development etc.

    You cannot blame the developers if something slips out of whack. That will happen naturally. This is the nature of the beast, we cannot escape that. And so what? Nothing remains the same in games like these. You wouldn't want that either.

    There are other options than straight up nerfing characters. These other options also seem to be the prefered choice. So apparantly the devs mostly agree with everyone that is against nerfs. I'm not sure why, i'm no expert. You make it seem you're guided, informed, aware of games, mechanics and development, so maybe you're the right person to explain why it's better to not nerf characters and look for other options to let the game evolve. Seeying as the devs released and reworked quite alot of characters that instantly became meta and almost never directly nerfed a character.
    Or you could just keep repeating that nerfs are mandatory and anyone who disagrees is misinformed, misguided etc etc.
    Read all the posts and others like mine:
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108915/chaze-a-reasonable-look-at-the-most-overtuned-duo-in-game/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/109201/they-have-counters/p3

    And yes, actually, I'm very guided and informed and aware of games. I've been a sponsored, professional player on WoW and many other games, including creating games as well. It's actually quite a familiar field.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    Keep fighting the good fight my friend. Be prepared for some nasty responses to this post.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    With all due respect, to me, this is just outrageously misguided and misinformed, and, or, unaware of games, mechanics, development etc.

    You cannot blame the developers if something slips out of whack. That will happen naturally. This is the nature of the beast, we cannot escape that. And so what? Nothing remains the same in games like these. You wouldn't want that either.

    There are other options than straight up nerfing characters. These other options also seem to be the prefered choice. So apparantly the devs mostly agree with everyone that is against nerfs. I'm not sure why, i'm no expert. You make it seem you're guided, informed, aware of games, mechanics and development, so maybe you're the right person to explain why it's better to not nerf characters and look for other options to let the game evolve. Seeying as the devs released and reworked quite alot of characters that instantly became meta and almost never directly nerfed a character.
    Or you could just keep repeating that nerfs are mandatory and anyone who disagrees is misinformed, misguided etc etc.
    Read all the posts and others like mine:
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108915/chaze-a-reasonable-look-at-the-most-overtuned-duo-in-game/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/109201/they-have-counters/p3

    And yes, actually, I'm very guided and informed and aware of games. I've been a sponsored, professional player on WoW and many other games, including creating games as well. It's a quite a familiar field.

    those threads offer little insight to why devs almost never chose to nerf. If anything, It shows that you disagree with the devs' their choice to not nerf. Are you arogant enough to believe you would have done a better job if you were in their position? Or could you explain the reason behind not using nerfs on their part?

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    leef wrote: »
    Or could you explain the reason behind not using nerfs on their part?
    Because the game is not that bad:
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1059318/#Comment_1059318
    Said this already.

    Edit: There are still nerfs in the game, btw. Coming and done.
  • Waez
    286 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    With all due respect, to me, this is just outrageously misguided and misinformed, and, or, unaware of games, mechanics, development etc.

    You cannot blame the developers if something slips out of whack. That will happen naturally. This is the nature of the beast, we cannot escape that. And so what? Nothing remains the same in games like these. You wouldn't want that either.

    There are other options than straight up nerfing characters. These other options also seem to be the prefered choice. So apparantly the devs mostly agree with everyone that is against nerfs. I'm not sure why, i'm no expert. You make it seem you're guided, informed, aware of games, mechanics and development, so maybe you're the right person to explain why it's better to not nerf characters and look for other options to let the game evolve. Seeying as the devs released and reworked quite alot of characters that instantly became meta and almost never directly nerfed a character.
    Or you could just keep repeating that nerfs are mandatory and anyone who disagrees is misinformed, misguided etc etc.

    The reason is simple: $$$

    With power creep instead of nerfs, the devs can keep cashing in the sweet money they get from people who either pay for the character or pay for his gear/level/abilities.

    If they nerf a character, you don't need to pay for a shiny new toy that can counter the current meta.

    Somehow everyone agrees with that. The official reason is that it "would be unfair to those who paid for the character". So everyone assumes they would lose a very good character with no compensation.

    The thing is, when EA introduce a power creep new hero that counters the current meta, the previously OP characters become worthless too, just like if they were nerfed.

    The only difference is that if you had nerfed them, more teams could have appeared and became viable. There would be more diversity.
    With the current power creep/Counter to what's OP method, the new meta becomes the new character. There's no diversity.

    See R2: You slap him on a Rex lead and it counters ZMaul. Nothing new. Still Rex and ZMaul (for a time) in the Arena.

    If ZMaul has been nerfed, we could have seen more teams: FO, Resistance, even Phoenix. More Jedi too.

    See Shoretrooper: They could have nerfed Wiggs, and many teams would have been more viable. But instead, they created Shoretrooper to stop Wiggs. What happened? Shore was put in Rex or Wiggs team, and there was no increase in diversity.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    leef wrote: »
    Or could you explain the reason behind not using nerfs on their part?

    Because the game is not that bad:
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1059318/#Comment_1059318
    Said this already.

    so pretty much everyone who's asking for nerfs is wrong, including yourself? So what are you even talking about? lol
    Save water, drink champagne!
This discussion has been closed.