Phoenix squad/ empire new or reworked toons

The first reviews or opinions of players that tried the imperial troopers are of disapointment. Wich would make them on par with the Phoenix reviews. So while contemplating all the work that went into creating this toons, the hopes and hype that players had before their release , and the impending Tarkin rework, I found myself asking some questions and maybe some of you can offer some opinions:
1. What exactly is this toons niche? They are not high end arena viable, but they are also not easy to farm, so new players cannot be their targets. Apparently they arr not even that great in HAAT. Who besides bored empire or the TV show fans that have already acomplished most in the game are supposed to farm/ gear them up?
2. At what point in the game history should this toons have been released/ reworked for them to be meta?
3. What exactly was the strategy behind this releases/ reworks? Like I said a lot of work, resources and passion went into them, but for what? They just needed new content/ events so they just thrown at us a lot of toons hoping that some of them will stick ( like DT, Sabine, Ezra) or they actually tried to make them arena worthy but they failed for some reasons (not enough testing, fears of increasing the power creep etc.)?

Replies

  • I'd just hold tight on troopers - they deal a lot of damage - the comparison to PX is way off.
  • danflorian1984
    986 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    I'd just hold tight on troopers - they deal a lot of damage - the comparison to PX is way off.

    Have you tried them? Because on forums I haven' t seen one person happy with them for arena, and in raids I don' t remember them being recommended for any phase. People that I know that tried them gave them up both in arena and in raids.
    Edit: I just checked the meta report from Swgoh.gg and from about 32k teams that rank in top 100, 20 use General Veers, 29 Magma, 102 Krennic (not trooper but I find it interesting). You could say that the revork is fairly new, but already 1300 teams use R2.
  • I'd just hold tight on troopers - they deal a lot of damage - the comparison to PX is way off.

    Have you tried them? Because on forums I haven' t seen one person happy with them for arena, and in raids I don' t remember them being recommended for any phase. People that I know that tried them gave them up both in arena and in raids.
    Edit: I just checked the meta report from Swgoh.gg and from about 32k teams that rank in top 100, 20 use General Veers, 29 Magma, 102 Krennic (not trooper but I find it interesting). You could say that the revork is fairly new, but already 1300 teams use R2.

    The lack of so little info doesn't indicate that they're bad, but 2 things from talking to players:

    1. They are not easy to gear and few would have had heroes like Veers / Snow / Storm at max gear 11 because they were so terrible for so long - so very small # players would have them prepped as of the update
    2. Veers needs the zeta - R2 just came out and he's a beast and needs 2 zetas. Zetas are finite even for Krackens of the highest order - not many players will have 2 zetas stocked up for R2 and then still have one left over for Veers.

    Arena tests I've seen so far against Sith will show Troopers bad because debuffs are their weakness. I'm still pushing them and so are 2 other strong, veteran players on my shard because they are a big stat / health team with high damage. I only have 1 zDM team in my top 25 right now - he's totally gone - so debuff teams really aren't my issue now. It's high health / damage / low debuff teams that feature Chaze / GK / R2 / Wiggs, etc.

    Since Troopers don't control with debuffs or huge TM, they need to be maxed as a stat-based team. They need to get kills so they can than go in to insane mode and swarm. Sith tested well at early stages because debuffs are debuffs and stun is a stun and it works and you win! It replaces the need for stats with the control and evasion. Troopers though you can't quite test in the same manner.

    I just got Snow and Death to G11 today - Snow, without the omega on the basic, is doing 20k crits with O up and crit damage up on his basic. He doesn't have optimal damage mods in either. That should easily get to 25k+ after I omega and max his G11 plate and optimize mods. Veers I have G11 - but haven't zeta'd yet as I need the Omegas :)

    I saw one p3 HAAT test from a guild and without a zeta and without the whole team at G11, they did about 300k in damage using a zDV lead. Now, I was encouraged by that because without the zeta they are weak and Storm needs his gear to be maxed for protection so he can do his job and keep regenerating protection. Their issue was they died quick - so Veers zeta will solve that issue.

    I think they'll end up being a solid team for HAAT - not game-breaking or soloing it - but solid in multiple phases. Also, think they'll be a good arena counter team to these R2 / Rebel / LS tanky squads that will be popping up.
  • Let's also remember, the current content in the game is not all of the content that will be in the game. I would not be surprised at all if troopers are great in an upcoming game event/node. I haven't made troopers a priority, but love what they did with the rework.
  • crzydroid
    4482 posts Moderator
    While the trooper rework is great for these characters, I don't know that every rework or faction pass should make that team the next META...in this case, I think it makes them not suck so hard, which is exactly what they needed. I am actually curious as to whether stormtrooper would be a good third tank for Chirpatine now, but I'm not ready to dump gear into him just yet, especially as I have another p3 team that's been doing more damage than Chirpatine so that's my priority. Sad to hear that people haven't quite yet found a spot for them in raids yet.

    It's also really sad that Phoenix is complete garbage. We're halfway through season 2 of Rebels now, and I'm really liking the characters and the show. I would say the utility of Phoenix squadron is maybe for their ships...I wouldn't know personally, since levelling up Ghost is my next pet project once I have tank teams in order. It was impossible to tell from the event how well they'd do in arena since the opponents were such a joke.
  • crzydroid wrote: »
    While the trooper rework is great for these characters, I don't know that every rework or faction pass should make that team the next META...in this case, I think it makes them not suck so hard, which is exactly what they needed. I am actually curious as to whether stormtrooper would be a good third tank for Chirpatine now, but I'm not ready to dump gear into him just yet, especially as I have another p3 team that's been doing more damage than Chirpatine so that's my priority. Sad to hear that people haven't quite yet found a spot for them in raids yet.

    It's also really sad that Phoenix is complete garbage. We're halfway through season 2 of Rebels now, and I'm really liking the characters and the show. I would say the utility of Phoenix squadron is maybe for their ships...I wouldn't know personally, since levelling up Ghost is my next pet project once I have tank teams in order. It was impossible to tell from the event how well they'd do in arena since the opponents were such a joke.

    I agree that not all new releases/ reworks should be meta, but in this case they should either be: easy to farm and viable in arena for new players or at least counters for one faction or another. If the only thing they do is not sucking then nobody will use them. Nobody uses mediocre toons when they have better alternatives, in no phase of the game, unless he is a big fan of the sw characters. Also you don't anounce mediocre toons with such a big hype like they did with both the phoenix squad and the several empire releases/ reworks.
  • crzydroid
    4482 posts Moderator
    crzydroid wrote: »
    While the trooper rework is great for these characters, I don't know that every rework or faction pass should make that team the next META...in this case, I think it makes them not suck so hard, which is exactly what they needed. I am actually curious as to whether stormtrooper would be a good third tank for Chirpatine now, but I'm not ready to dump gear into him just yet, especially as I have another p3 team that's been doing more damage than Chirpatine so that's my priority. Sad to hear that people haven't quite yet found a spot for them in raids yet.

    It's also really sad that Phoenix is complete garbage. We're halfway through season 2 of Rebels now, and I'm really liking the characters and the show. I would say the utility of Phoenix squadron is maybe for their ships...I wouldn't know personally, since levelling up Ghost is my next pet project once I have tank teams in order. It was impossible to tell from the event how well they'd do in arena since the opponents were such a joke.

    I agree that not all new releases/ reworks should be meta, but in this case they should either be: easy to farm and viable in arena for new players or at least counters for one faction or another. If the only thing they do is not sucking then nobody will use them. Nobody uses mediocre toons when they have better alternatives, in no phase of the game, unless he is a big fan of the sw characters. Also you don't anounce mediocre toons with such a big hype like they did with both the phoenix squad and the several empire releases/ reworks.

    Yeah, I can agree to that. And on further reflection, part of the good stuff doesn't start happening until omega level, which doesn't cut it for beginners.
  • crzydroid
    4482 posts Moderator
    It's possible that all trooper squads are not the way to go for this, but people haven't found the individual or pair niches yet.
  • danflorian1984
    986 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    ^ So that would mean that they applied the throw at us many toons, maybe some would stick strategy. IDK, what I'm saying is that people need a reason to buy, farm, level-up and gear up toons and I cannot figure up what the reasons are for this toons. Maybe a few of them will be good, but honestly there got to be a better balance between very strong (Chaze, R2, Nihilus) and with potential but nobody will use them.
  • The saddest thing is that while phoenix or troopers are still somewhat talked about in forums, the later more than the first, nobody discusses Gar and ISC, They really are the Forgotten Toons. At this point they are probably some of the last options even in their faction.
  • crzydroid
    4482 posts Moderator
    The saddest thing is that while phoenix or troopers are still somewhat talked about in forums, the later more than the first, nobody discusses Gar and ISC, They really are the Forgotten Toons. At this point they are probably some of the last options even in their faction.

    Interesting thought about them. I know for me personally, by the time they came around I was getting toon spamming fatigue. Deathtrooper is useful, there was hype around Nihilus and I got him up to a level where I could do the first Places of Power event, and even SA is useful in Zaul squads...that's the thing, Sith got a faction pass when they came out, and people already had a start on Sith. Then the Phoenix came out through separate installments.

    By the time Gar and SC came around, it was just two more three star toons for a faction that had Shore and Deathtrooper and a buffed Vader, and Phoenix had turned out to be disappointing. The difference between that and the trooper pass is I think that people had a start on troopers and had been complaining about them a long time.
  • Arimanius
    165 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Well I've seen some videos on youtube lately of some guy playing both gar (leader) and ISC with shoretrooper, tfp and dooku and I've seen him beating some nice teams with it, the amount of counters is crazy and even when it's not as powerful as a sith or rex team is certainly more fun to play with
  • The saddest thing is that while phoenix or troopers are still somewhat talked about in forums, the later more than the first, nobody discusses Gar and ISC, They really are the Forgotten Toons. At this point they are probably some of the last options even in their faction.

    Phoenix is just a redo of the R1 rebels minus all the stuff that made the R1 rebels good. And between Zaul and Rex/Chaze everywhere Gar Saxon was dead on arrival. And just in case, a brand new meta toon that gives AOE stealth was also added to make sure counterattack isn't viable.

    Troopers on the other hand seem at least to me to be meant as an option for low level players who don't want to run rebels. Snowtrooper and Stormtrooper look a lot like Lando and ST Han, throw in Magmatrooper and and Tarkin for even more TMR and cap it off with a Veers lead and I think you have a very solid sub 80 team.
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    Troopers r the exact opposite of a low level team. Troopers r for the dedicated, Empire elitists. Reason being, they have no plug and play toons. No Chaze, Rex, Nihilus, R2, B2 etc that fit in any comp. If u go w/ troopers, u r investing an awful lot in toons that r not useful anywhere else. Low-level players need multi-use toons.
  • I think you're overestimating the community's ability to instantly gear up, star up, level up and mod up an entire arena squad. R2 was easy to get for most veterans and can fit into a number of teams. So of course most people will prioritize R2 over 4-5 toons that can take a chunk of time to get to a level where they can be used.

    As far as Phoenix, the few that spent the hundreds to max them didn't think they were the next meta, so the rest of us mortals make an easy decision to not invest a ridiculous amount of resources on a team that won't compete in top arena, but are fun.

    I'd say give it more time before trying to draw conclusions.
  • danflorian1984
    986 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    ]
    The saddest thing is that while phoenix or troopers are still somewhat talked about in forums, the later more than the first, nobody discusses Gar and ISC, They really are the Forgotten Toons. At this point they are probably some of the last options even in their faction.

    Phoenix is just a redo of the R1 rebels minus all the stuff that made the R1 rebels good. And between Zaul and Rex/Chaze everywhere Gar Saxon was dead on arrival. And just in case, a brand new meta toon that gives AOE stealth was also added to make sure counterattack isn't viable.

    Troopers on the other hand seem at least to me to be meant as an option for low level players who don't want to run rebels. Snowtrooper and Stormtrooper look a lot like Lando and ST Han, throw in Magmatrooper and and Tarkin for even more TMR and cap it off with a Veers lead and I think you have a very solid sub 80 team.

    Veers is only farmable from 3 hard nodes, snowtrooper's cantina node is 7b. This alone disqualifies them as a sub 80 team.
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