Theorycrafting: Zader with Sun Fac on Grievous.
So the mechanics make me believe that Zader could be viable on grievous with Sun Fac in the party. The reasoning behind this is that the dots only tic at the start of Grievous turn, so he won't get 100% tm from them (because he already has 100% tm) even though he will still get the speed up and cd reset.
Now he will AoE because his cd has reset, which will make Sun Fac counter attack him and dispel the buff. This means that he wouldn't get extra turns from Zader's permaDoTs, only if he got the buff through other means could he do so, and it would still only be for the rush to that turn, it wouldn't hurry in his next couple.
Basically, I think the inclusion of Sun Fac not only makes Zader viable, it almost makes him preferable since the speed from the buff could basically be completely eliminated using this combo.
Now he will AoE because his cd has reset, which will make Sun Fac counter attack him and dispel the buff. This means that he wouldn't get extra turns from Zader's permaDoTs, only if he got the buff through other means could he do so, and it would still only be for the rush to that turn, it wouldn't hurry in his next couple.
Basically, I think the inclusion of Sun Fac not only makes Zader viable, it almost makes him preferable since the speed from the buff could basically be completely eliminated using this combo.
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So if the adds are there and not shocked, buff immune or dazed then Sun fac will counter the taunting droid.
The Buff has absolutely nothing to do with him gaining the 100% turn meter on the 7th time he takes damage. If he has buff immunity on the 7th time taking damage he doesn't gain the buff but all other parts of the tactical maneuvering ability still trigger including the TM gain.
I believe the dots just keep him going over and over, don't have zeta vader so I can't test, but I am pretty sure I have seen videos of it happening.
Please share the results of the test but if he goes over and over with 7+ dots then sun fac will make 0 difference in breaking that chain
If you watch this video though, you will see that he doesn't just get full tm over and over though. His tm just fill up Uber fast when he has the buff for some unknown reason (since people aren't damaging the adds enough to give him the amount of tm he's getting).
I get that. To me, it's far more fun to come up with new and interesting ways to do things than just doing the same thing as everyone else, especially if it involves a method that everyone else has called bad.
this is a hard squad to beat:
(fast and effective)
That was my first ever attempt with igd lead.
Since then, I've been able to reach 28-30%.
And one Zylo can take it down (just slowly lol)
Plus, I prefer to keep Zader for p2 or even p3-4.
Well, half of the idea of using a Zader lead is to tm remove Grievous. When I try and control Grievous with tm removal, I always burn down the adds first (I've seen people skip burning down the adds before, but only because Daze is bugged on them and keeps the buffs from popping up, so including Maul wouldn't be a bad idea) That would be an essential part of the strategy IMO without TFP and/or Maul. Of course he will summon them again as soon as he goes, but then I would just burn them down again. The reasoning for this is twofold: it makes it so I don't have to worry about extraneous damage, and so that I don't have to worry about not being able to wipe Grievous's buff until it expires due to a taunt.
Thank you for testing it.
The buff is not what is giving him the 100% tm gain, I don't know why you keep circling back to this.
There is some weird interaction going on with the dot damage and tactical manuerving ability.
They are hard to "burn" down in Heroic Tank.
Normal might be easier but I just don't see how using Zader helps.
The only times I've used Zader is with just him and zSavage (to make Savage hit harder). The brute is unkillable until you hit enrage. It's a less effecient version of using zKylo (who I do not have).
Exactly the same results.
His 5% turn meter bonus from damage he gets just goes wild with all the dots.
Grrrrrrrr- evous I Haat youuuuuuu!!! lol
Your giving me crap over semantics man. The buff and the ability both come from the ability. I don't care which gives him the tm, they both come from the same place.
It doesn't matter whether or not it is the ability or the buff that gives him the tm, his tm fills EXTREMELY fast WHILE he has the buff. If I don't wipe the buff with or without him having dots, he will take turns insanely fast.
Wiping the buff slows him down whether or not it is the buff or the ability that gives him tm.
I enjoy your input as it is nomally very astute, but come on man, why do you keep badgering me about something that really doesn't change the outcome whatsoever, and isn't even for certain since the ability obviously doesn't work as it is written in the description (since he doesn't get the tm WHEN he gets the buff, he gets it afterwards)?
Only because it sound to me like you keep saying if you remove the debuff it will stop him from gaining the 100% TM from the ability
Because it might. He gets tm insanely fast while he has the buff EVEN IF I don't hit anybody. The ability does NOT work exactly as it is described with 100% certainty. Whether it is the buff or the ability that is giving him tm removing the buff will slow him down. If your correction made a difference to the conversation at hand, I would have acknowledged it, but it doesn't. hence why it is semantics.
I had edited my above post. Please see the elaboration.
I agree there is something funky with the mechanics of how the tactical maneuvering ability is interacting with the dots.
Because I have seen preventing the buff not stopping the TM gain from tactical maneuvering ability I don't think dispelling it after he gains it will make any difference.
I don't think that team can rival most of the well built P1 teams if it even did work. A solid Jedi team, a TMR team, the Counter Attacking to hell with GK squad etc.
I have seen buff immunity keep him from getting the buff and seen him still get tm. I have also seen buff immunity prevent Stormtrooper Han from taunting, but he would still give tm when hit. HOWEVER, wiping Stormtrooper Han's taunt would keep him from giving tm. So preventing a buff doesn't necessarily prevent attached effects that wiping a buff will prevent based on evidence from other mechanics.
Pretty much the only ones that could pull this off are Sun Fac, Plo Koon under an Ima-Gun-Di lead, or basically anyone else with a buff wipe on basic that could be given counterattack somehow. Even then, there's 2 things that have to go a certain way for it to work. The mechanics would have to be similar to how Stormtrooper Han's taunt used to work, and the counter attack effect would have to go off before the effect that gives him the tm at the end of his turn.
50% chance isn't that low, but not that high either. It would be RNG dependent, but that's what retreating is for. lol
Well, if it did work, it would be a TMR team too. The dots would just be bonus damage since tm teams don't dish out a lot of damage in general. If it worked, it should do better than your average tm removal team. Besides, theorycrafting is about new teams, not old ones.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/109376/game-update-5-9-2017#latest
So to beat t1 effectively, you already need yo have beat the snot out of haat.... sigh
I did notice that. Glad to see they fixed that bug.