Look, I understand where most of you are coming from, but I disagree.
This game develops in stages, and maybe in this current stage chaze has more utility than any other duo, but there will be additional stages of toon deployment and development to follow. You see, it doesn't mean the game will always be this way. Remember 1st and foremost, CG is a business and has investors looking for a return on their investment, and power creep ensures revenue streams. What I take from this thread, is perhaps a word to CG, and even their investors, to not accelerate the power creep so fast. That seems reasonable.
Admittedly, chaze was a massive jump in the meta. But chaze is beatable, as I've shown in a thread in the feedback section under characters. Being somewhat of a counter meta guy, I like the challenge chaze poses to me. It's fun to come up with new ways to beat chaze (and rex) without using either.
Chaze has not broken the game, is not op, is not unbeatable, is not unbalanced . Just because the duo has great utility doesn't then mean they beat all strategy and is unbalanced. Many have already shown alternative comps that can beat chaze without using Chaze. Oh I know, I know, just because you can beat a team, doesn't mean the team is balanced. We'll, just because a team is unbalanced doesn't mean the game is broken or has insurmountable squads on the way to #1 in arena.
While arena isn't broken now, if they release a strong LS / Rebel leader skill that can replace the GK / Wedge / DN leads in these Chaze / GK / R2 squads I think it's very possible arena will be totally broken in the sense you will have to base teams, even to win, on that core set of heroes. Rebel / Jedi Luke would be the most likely scenario to plop in a great leader skill - in that scenario assuming an elite leader on a great character I believe it would be close to impossible to beat that team without using any of those 5 characters assuming similar mod levels.
You can tell Chaze is "broken" from a few specific points:
1. They are remaining the core meta through every meta shift for 6 months - including an ELITE Sith pass and months now of Dark Side reworks (Sith, DN / ST / SiT release, FO, Empire revamps) - historically that has not happened, especially when you consider how insanely powerful that zDM team was and how different it was from any other meta - that should have almost broken the game - but Chaze swam through it no problem and actually re-defined the meta around them. How do you take a Sith like DN, flip it, and redefine the meta against that beast of a team? That's incredible that a tandem could do that.
2. Each new release that's strong, does NOT take away from their utility - it only serves to add to it and make them stronger. Even opposite faction (like DN) that have no blatant synergy between them. Latest example is R2. That's not how these games work.
I really feel DN and the Sith path was supposed to bring balance against the Rebels / Chaze, not take Chaze to another level with hide the Nihilius and use DN to actually crush his own faction That makes no sense if you just think about it big picture. I believe that Chaze / GK and the boys at this point are almost out of control from where CG is wanting to take the game. R2 was so clearly an anti-Zaul toon...he was supposed to come and save the LS from that meta - but zDM was already killed when DN was released in the Sith pass! So R2 did nothing really to the meta at all but make Chaze better.
Chaze is not unbeatable - yet - but they are absolutely breaking the game part of GoH and that train is only picking up steam, not slowing down even as many toons are released and many have been reworked.
The point is that they break the tactical part of the game simply because they perform the roles of multiple toons, usually better than them.
For example you never have to choose between a cleanser, a healer or an attacker to put in your last spot in your team, like every other faction has to, if they even have toons that can perform all these roles separately.
I disagree with that argument. If there is one spot left, you need to put in Baze OR Chirrut. Also ST ist the only toon who can heal, taunt constantly and spread buff immunity. No other toon does that. So how do you decide which combination is breaking a portion of the game and which doesn't?
That is why I would totally disagree with that definition of the tactical part or at least with its relevance. I dont care if some toons are good or better as long as they can be beaten with enough teams and therefore you have a tactical decision to make which team to develop and what faction to focus on and you can be competitive with that. That is at least my, imho more practical, approach to assess what is game breaking and what is not.
That is why imho in the last few months there was one decision by CG, that made all the following released toons a joke until R2 arrived, and that is that dreadful Sith faction pass. Talking about game breaking, Zaul ended Rebels, Empire, Troopers and Phoenix the instant they were released and forced every player to go Zaul or his counter and brought randomness back to the game. THAT is breaking most tactics imho.
I don't think chaze is breaking the tactical part of the game. They can be beat with many other teams pretty easily.
oh great, another "can be beaten easily" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz
define "easily" and cite these "many other teams."
'easily' to me means, defeated in 2:00 mins or less in Arena and 'many other teams' = 3 or more. You're not beating them 'easily' and you're not doing so with 'many other teams' so just stop with the my dad can beat up your dad nonsense.
oh great, another "can be beaten easily" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz
define "easily" and cite these "many other teams.
Is that reall up for debate? No one is denying that except you. Just look it up on YouTube or here on the forum. I personally beat them consistently with Wiggs + lando + Boba + St han. But unfortunately i didn't take the time because I actually thought nobody cares about that.
So definition of easy: 80% success rate. Happy now?
Look, I understand where most of you are coming from, but I disagree.
This game develops in stages, and maybe in this current stage chaze has more utility than any other duo, but there will be additional stages of toon deployment and development to follow. You see, it doesn't mean the game will always be this way. Remember 1st and foremost, CG is a business and has investors looking for a return on their investment, and power creep ensures revenue streams. What I take from this thread, is perhaps a word to CG, and even their investors, to not accelerate the power creep so fast. That seems reasonable.
Admittedly, chaze was a massive jump in the meta. But chaze is beatable, as I've shown in a thread in the feedback section under characters. Being somewhat of a counter meta guy, I like the challenge chaze poses to me. It's fun to come up with new ways to beat chaze (and rex) without using either.
Chaze has not broken the game, is not op, is not unbeatable, is not unbalanced . Just because the duo has great utility doesn't then mean they beat all strategy and is unbalanced. Many have already shown alternative comps that can beat chaze without using Chaze. Oh I know, I know, just because you can beat a team, doesn't mean the team is balanced. We'll, just because a team is unbalanced doesn't mean the game is broken or has insurmountable squads on the way to #1 in arena.
Look, I understand where most of you are coming from, but I disagree.
This game develops in stages, and maybe in this current stage chaze has more utility than any other duo, but there will be additional stages of toon deployment and development to follow. You see, it doesn't mean the game will always be this way. Remember 1st and foremost, CG is a business and has investors looking for a return on their investment, and power creep ensures revenue streams. What I take from this thread, is perhaps a word to CG, and even their investors, to not accelerate the power creep so fast. That seems reasonable.
Admittedly, chaze was a massive jump in the meta. But chaze is beatable, as I've shown in a thread in the feedback section under characters. Being somewhat of a counter meta guy, I like the challenge chaze poses to me. It's fun to come up with new ways to beat chaze (and rex) without using either.
Chaze has not broken the game, is not op, is not unbeatable, is not unbalanced . Just because the duo has great utility doesn't then mean they beat all strategy and is unbalanced. Many have already shown alternative comps that can beat chaze without using Chaze. Oh I know, I know, just because you can beat a team, doesn't mean the team is balanced. We'll, just because a team is unbalanced doesn't mean the game is broken or has insurmountable squads on the way to #1 in arena.
While arena isn't broken now, if they release a strong LS / Rebel leader skill that can replace the GK / Wedge / DN leads in these Chaze / GK / R2 squads I think it's very possible arena will be totally broken in the sense you will have to base teams, even to win, on that core set of heroes. Rebel / Jedi Luke would be the most likely scenario to plop in a great leader skill - in that scenario assuming an elite leader on a great character I believe it would be close to impossible to beat that team without using any of those 5 characters assuming similar mod levels.
I have no comment about what-ifs. First, I have no idea on their development plan where they're taking the game. Second, some are part of the beta team testing new content, but they're bound by a non-disclosure agreement. Third, if we debated future possibilities, we'd be debating forever, and most would be a waste of thought. Without seeing what will be deployed, I'll pass on these types of arguments.
You can tell Chaze is "broken" from a few specific points:
1. They are remaining the core meta through every meta shift for 6 months - including an ELITE Sith pass and months now of Dark Side reworks (Sith, DN / ST / SiT release, FO, Empire revamps) - historically that has not happened, especially when you consider how insanely powerful that zDM team was and how different it was from any other meta - that should have almost broken the game - but Chaze swam through it no problem and actually re-defined the meta around them. How do you take a Sith like DN, flip it, and redefine the meta against that beast of a team? That's incredible that a tandem could do that.
Arena is not broken, but chaze is? Not sure you can have it both ways. Also, since when is length of time a meta has existed been established as a measure of whether a toon is broken? That's your opinion, and I disagree. But let's assume you are correct. Then maybe it follows that the current long lasting chaze meta is more a reflection on the lack of success of toon development and deployment, because as we've both discussed, the chaze meta can be simply ended by new toons with targeted synergy against the duo.
3. Each new release that's strong, does NOT take away from their utility - it only serves to add to it and make them stronger. Even opposite faction (like DN) that have no blatant synergy between them. Latest example is R2. That's not how these games work.
I don't know how the game is supposed to work. But again, this is more a reflection on a lack-luster new toon development - whether planned or unplanned I don't know.
Let's assume unplanned. One could only conclude, recent game updates on the whole have been a failure from a lack of design creativity; it doesn't directly follow that it's because the game is broken.
I really feel DN and the Sith path was supposed to bring balance against the Rebels / Chaze, not take Chaze to another level with hide the Nihilius and use DN to actually crush his own faction That makes no sense if you just think about it big picture. I believe that Chaze / GK and the boys at this point are almost out of control from where CG is wanting to take the game. R2 was so clearly an anti-Zaul toon...he was supposed to come and save the LS from that meta - but zDM was already killed when DN was released in the Sith pass! So R2 did nothing really to the meta at all but make Chaze better.
Chaze is not unbeatable - yet - but they are absolutely breaking the game part of GoH and that train is only picking up steam, not slowing down even as many toons are released and many have been reworked.
Feel? Anyways, I can easily beat standard rex/chaze/gk/nihilus teams using a gk lead, a nihilus lead, a Vader lead, a maul lead, a Qgj lead and remain tops in arena. The teams I can field with these leads do hold up on Def. And I don't use Chaze except I'll use Baze with Barris under gk(L). People use Chaze because most are sheep and follow the leader. Monkey see monkey do.
Your attempts to say that my beating chaze doesn't mean the game isn't broken is irrelevant. From my perspective, I'm winning (without chaze) therefore it's irrelevant if the game is broken or not in your pov. It's a moot point.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
I just one to remind everyone that "beatable" and "balanced" are not the same thing. There seems to be the odd misconception that just because I specific team or two can beat Chaze, that that automatically indicates that they are balanced.
JSA has outlined some very specific (and very obvious) indications that Chaze is overpowered - especially given the recent (and apparent, future) release of more Rebels that synergize with them (which they didn't need to be a major part of the meta - even to this point).
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I wish there was a roster cap of around 50 in arena with top end toons having a a high cap.Factions could get a bonus so they could play together,mixed bag teams would and should be penalized,I know this would never happen but it's getting beyond rediculous,Chaze is gonna end up being in every1s arena and the game is gonna fall off drastically,whoever has the faster chaze,wins--no skill,no strategy .
These guys are seriously a jk, and it only proofs that these poor guys bought chaze with irl money and they REALLY don't know how to read.
I'm willing to cut some of them some slack. Many are simply defending their investment. My issue is that many are doing so with very little objectivity, simply rationalizing that since they lose on defense, Chaze must be balanced (which, as I have mentioned numerous times, is proof of nothing).
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@JohnnySteelAlpha You mention several times throughout this thread that you don't want Chaze nerfed. You also mention that they ruin the tactical portion of the game. How is CG supposed to restore the tactical part of the game without nerfing them? The only way Chaze leaves the meta is if they're nerfed or stronger characters are released, and if stronger characters are released it only further ruins the tactical aspect of the game. As far as I can tell, the only way to restore the strategic team building that Chaze killed is to nerf them. If you have an idea I'd like to hear it, but I just don't think it's possible.
No need to nerf to them. Moreover, that would be a mistake. Why take something away people spent money on? CG could (and should) focus on other tactical options to counter Chaze and further develop the tactical part of the game.
@JohnnySteelAlpha You mention several times throughout this thread that you don't want Chaze nerfed. You also mention that they ruin the tactical portion of the game. How is CG supposed to restore the tactical part of the game without nerfing them? The only way Chaze leaves the meta is if they're nerfed or stronger characters are released, and if stronger characters are released it only further ruins the tactical aspect of the game. As far as I can tell, the only way to restore the strategic team building that Chaze killed is to nerf them. If you have an idea I'd like to hear it, but I just don't think it's possible.
No need to nerf to them. Moreover, that would be a mistake. Why take something away people spent money on? CG could (and should) focus on other tactical options to counter Chaze and further develop the tactical part of the game.
Sure like Ahasoka. And btw, all the toons that Chaze made a joke also cost money, but only your money count, no?
If you didn't see the Ahsoka video I recomand to watch it. You can really see some balance there. GK Chaze R2 Ahsoka. The game just got broken.
Not yet. She hasn't been released yet. lol.
If that video is true though, yeah, it's going to absolutely be awful. Not quite sure how developers can be so completely out of touch with their own game.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@JohnnySteelAlpha You mention several times throughout this thread that you don't want Chaze nerfed. You also mention that they ruin the tactical portion of the game. How is CG supposed to restore the tactical part of the game without nerfing them? The only way Chaze leaves the meta is if they're nerfed or stronger characters are released, and if stronger characters are released it only further ruins the tactical aspect of the game. As far as I can tell, the only way to restore the strategic team building that Chaze killed is to nerf them. If you have an idea I'd like to hear it, but I just don't think it's possible.
No need to nerf to them. Moreover, that would be a mistake. Why take something away people spent money on? CG could (and should) focus on other tactical options to counter Chaze and further develop the tactical part of the game.
Sure like Ahasoka. And btw, all the toons that Chaze made a joke also cost money, but only your money count, no?
I posted earlier in this thread and share the opinion of OP. I spent money on toons that are outclassed by Chaze. I am a bit angry because of this. But still I don't think a nerf is a good idea. I want a more general solution like, for example, more toons to be able to ignore taunts. Gives a new tactical option and helps against a lot of different squads that are heavily relying on taunts.
Please don't just post what comes to your mind without reading the thread.
@JohnnySteelAlpha You mention several times throughout this thread that you don't want Chaze nerfed. You also mention that they ruin the tactical portion of the game. How is CG supposed to restore the tactical part of the game without nerfing them? The only way Chaze leaves the meta is if they're nerfed or stronger characters are released, and if stronger characters are released it only further ruins the tactical aspect of the game. As far as I can tell, the only way to restore the strategic team building that Chaze killed is to nerf them. If you have an idea I'd like to hear it, but I just don't think it's possible.
No need to nerf to them. Moreover, that would be a mistake. Why take something away people spent money on? CG could (and should) focus on other tactical options to counter Chaze and further develop the tactical part of the game.
Sure like Ahasoka. And btw, all the toons that Chaze made a joke also cost money, but only your money count, no?
I posted earlier in this thread and share the opinion of OP. I spent money on toons that are outclassed by Chaze. I am a bit angry because of this. But still I don't think a nerf is a good idea. I want a more general solution like, for example, more toons to be able to ignore taunts. Gives a new tactical option and helps against a lot of different squads that are heavily relying on taunts.
Please don't just post what comes to your mind without reading the thread.
I'm sorry if I came at you, honestly after watching the Ahsoka video I didn't think clearly anymore.
Look, I understand where most of you are coming from, but I disagree.
This game develops in stages, and maybe in this current stage chaze has more utility than any other duo, but there will be additional stages of toon deployment and development to follow. You see, it doesn't mean the game will always be this way. Remember 1st and foremost, CG is a business and has investors looking for a return on their investment, and power creep ensures revenue streams. What I take from this thread, is perhaps a word to CG, and even their investors, to not accelerate the power creep so fast. That seems reasonable.
Admittedly, chaze was a massive jump in the meta. But chaze is beatable, as I've shown in a thread in the feedback section under characters. Being somewhat of a counter meta guy, I like the challenge chaze poses to me. It's fun to come up with new ways to beat chaze (and rex) without using either.
Chaze has not broken the game, is not op, is not unbeatable, is not unbalanced . Just because the duo has great utility doesn't then mean they beat all strategy and is unbalanced. Many have already shown alternative comps that can beat chaze without using Chaze. Oh I know, I know, just because you can beat a team, doesn't mean the team is balanced. We'll, just because a team is unbalanced doesn't mean the game is broken or has insurmountable squads on the way to #1 in arena.
While arena isn't broken now, if they release a strong LS / Rebel leader skill that can replace the GK / Wedge / DN leads in these Chaze / GK / R2 squads I think it's very possible arena will be totally broken in the sense you will have to base teams, even to win, on that core set of heroes. Rebel / Jedi Luke would be the most likely scenario to plop in a great leader skill - in that scenario assuming an elite leader on a great character I believe it would be close to impossible to beat that team without using any of those 5 characters assuming similar mod levels.
You can tell Chaze is "broken" from a few specific points:
1. They are remaining the core meta through every meta shift for 6 months - including an ELITE Sith pass and months now of Dark Side reworks (Sith, DN / ST / SiT release, FO, Empire revamps) - historically that has not happened, especially when you consider how insanely powerful that zDM team was and how different it was from any other meta - that should have almost broken the game - but Chaze swam through it no problem and actually re-defined the meta around them. How do you take a Sith like DN, flip it, and redefine the meta against that beast of a team? That's incredible that a tandem could do that.
2. Each new release that's strong, does NOT take away from their utility - it only serves to add to it and make them stronger. Even opposite faction (like DN) that have no blatant synergy between them. Latest example is R2. That's not how these games work.
I really feel DN and the Sith path was supposed to bring balance against the Rebels / Chaze, not take Chaze to another level with hide the Nihilius and use DN to actually crush his own faction That makes no sense if you just think about it big picture. I believe that Chaze / GK and the boys at this point are almost out of control from where CG is wanting to take the game. R2 was so clearly an anti-Zaul toon...he was supposed to come and save the LS from that meta - but zDM was already killed when DN was released in the Sith pass! So R2 did nothing really to the meta at all but make Chaze better.
Chaze is not unbeatable - yet - but they are absolutely breaking the game part of GoH and that train is only picking up steam, not slowing down even as many toons are released and many have been reworked.
Chaze is broken and not arena at the moment. It's very simple. Arena is not broken because you can beat Gk / R2 / Chaze without using any of those 4, you are not forced in to a mirror match or using the same 3/4 core toons. Chaze is broken because they are bypassing the cycle part of the game. They take a Sith like DN, who they have no deliberate synergy with, and it forms the core of the best team in the middle of the greatest pass (Sith) the game has ever had by far. We are 2+ months deep in dark side releases / updates and Chaze has only gotten stronger over that time. Through every meta since they have been released, they are the best defense team and an elite offense attacking team. This is only possible because they do so much - so they are ready made and will be fine in any meta. They have zero inherent weaknesses.
That Chaze meta is not due to poor toon development - zSO, zKylo, DN, SA, SiT, Dooku ... these are all excellent toons. It's their ability, because they do everything, to hijack other factions best players and make them better with them than in their own synergy team. Think about that. Team synergy is < Chaze. That's a problem no? It's not toon release issues - CG is putting out fire - but Chaze is engulfing anything good, no matter the faction.
I think your indifference to the future and what ifs is quite shortsighted. I've seen this happen already in other games - I've lived though full out game breaks where 200+ roster was boiled down to 4-5 heroes that required a mirror match. It can happen, it has happened before, but let's not let that happen here. The game is too good overall and too many awesome characters and skills. I feel the game is dangerously close to breaking in terms of needing a core 3/4 heroes and REALLY getting close to breaking the LS / DS part of the game.
In the end though, I'm not going to get upset and hoot and holler. I'll take what the game gives. It's not my game - just sharing my view and opinions and I'm seeing the game trending in the direction of how CG's other game - Heroes of Dragon Age - went as well. The entire good / evil cleanse / debuff dynamic is eerily similar and the way we are closing in on a very elite handful of toons vs. the entire roster....
Look at this GG report - you know what sticks out the most as a huge warning sign that the game is breaking / consolidating on a very few toons? The chasm that has opened up from the top 5 most used characters and the 6th+ most. You go from 44% usage on Chirrut all the way down to 27% on DM. And that gap is in the process of widening day by day. It's not shrinking. Trends are for further widening of this elite / non-elite gap. R2 - very much riding Chaze's coattails, is now past Savage and Kylo - both very strong characters. In a matter of days he will almost assuredly pass both EP and DM to move in to 6th. You can put your head in the sand to these trends, but the game is absolutely in the process of consolidating / collapsing on a very few characters and Chaze is at the core of that collapse.
Chaze is broken and not arena at the moment. It's very simple. Arena is not broken because you can beat Gk / R2 / Chaze without using any of those 4, you are not forced in to a mirror match or using the same 3/4 core toons. Chaze is broken because they are bypassing the cycle part of the game. They take a Sith like DN, who they have no deliberate synergy with, and it forms the core of the best team in the middle of the greatest pass (Sith) the game has ever had by far. We are 2+ months deep in dark side releases / updates and Chaze has only gotten stronger over that time. Through every meta since they have been released, they are the best defense team and an elite offense attacking team. This is only possible because they do so much - so they are ready made and will be fine in any meta. They have zero inherent weaknesses.
That Chaze meta is not due to poor toon development - zSO, zKylo, DN, SA, SiT, Dooku ... these are all excellent toons. It's their ability, because they do everything, to hijack other factions best players and make them better with them than in their own synergy team. Think about that. Team synergy is < Chaze. That's a problem no? It's not toon release issues - CG is putting out fire - but Chaze is engulfing anything good, no matter the faction.
I think your indifference to the future and what ifs is quite shortsighted. I've seen this happen already in other games - I've lived though full out game breaks where 200+ roster was boiled down to 4-5 heroes that required a mirror match. It can happen, it has happened before, but let's not let that happen here. The game is too good overall and too many awesome characters and skills. I feel the game is dangerously close to breaking in terms of needing a core 3/4 heroes and REALLY getting close to breaking the LS / DS part of the game.
In the end though, I'm not going to get upset and hoot and holler. I'll take what the game gives. It's not my game - just sharing my view and opinions and I'm seeing the game trending in the direction of how CG's other game - Heroes of Dragon Age - went as well. The entire good / evil cleanse / debuff dynamic is eerily similar and the way we are closing in on a very elite handful of toons vs. the entire roster....
Look at this GG report - you know what sticks out the most as a huge warning sigh that the game is breaking / consolidating on a very few toons? The chasm that has opened up from the top 5 most used characters and the 6th+ most. You go from 44% usage on Chirrut all the way down to 27% on DM. And that gap is in the process of widening day by day. It's not shrinking. Trends are for further widening of this elite / non-elite gap. R2 - very much riding Chaze's coattails, is now Savage and Kylo - both very strong characters. In a matter of days he will almost assuredly pass both EP and DM to move in to 6th. You can put your head in the sand to these trends, but the game is absolutely in the process of consolidating / collapsing on a very few characters and Chaze is at the core of that collapse.
It's great to see after a few weeks ago, when even Johnny was questioning the Chaze nerf threads. His posts I've read recently concerning the topic are fair and balanced.
It's great to see after a few weeks ago, when even Johnny was questioning the Chaze nerf threads. His posts I've read recently concerning the topic are fair and balanced.
Okay, how about a clone trooper medic that can cleanse & revive (think republic commando game) or a mother talzin that can cleanse allies and use those debuffs to amp damage on nightsisters through dark side magics, or there doesnt seem to be a shortage of medical droids in sw universe... think of how luke got his new hand in esb and how grevious & vader were reconstructed... a medic droid can get any tag in addition to "droid" for instance they could release "sith medic droid" "republic medic droid" "rebel medic droid" "1st order medic droid" etc... in an event that has them all, and each droid has powerful synergies for that individual tag...
For instance a sith medic droid could cleanse debuffs on allies when they inflict debuffs... or gain tm for debuffs inflicted or increase dmg for # of buffs on the target ally (through like an adrenal shot) the possibilitys are endless yall just need to quit whining about chaze and think of solutions to what they bring that others lack, and that is synergy!
Okay, how about a clone trooper medic that can cleanse & revive (think republic commando game) or a mother talzin that can cleanse allies and use those debuffs to amp damage on nightsisters through dark side magics, or there doesnt seem to be a shortage of medical droids in sw universe... think of how luke got his new hand in esb and how grevious & vader were reconstructed... a medic droid can get any tag in addition to "droid" for instance they could release "sith medic droid" "republic medic droid" "rebel medic droid" "1st order medic droid" etc... in an event that has them all, and each droid has powerful synergies for that individual tag...
For instance a sith medic droid could cleanse debuffs on allies when they inflict debuffs... or gain tm for debuffs inflicted or increase dmg for # of buffs on the target ally (through like an adrenal shot) the possibilitys are endless yall just need to quit whining about chaze and think of solutions to what they bring that others lack, and that is synergy!
Replies
While arena isn't broken now, if they release a strong LS / Rebel leader skill that can replace the GK / Wedge / DN leads in these Chaze / GK / R2 squads I think it's very possible arena will be totally broken in the sense you will have to base teams, even to win, on that core set of heroes. Rebel / Jedi Luke would be the most likely scenario to plop in a great leader skill - in that scenario assuming an elite leader on a great character I believe it would be close to impossible to beat that team without using any of those 5 characters assuming similar mod levels.
You can tell Chaze is "broken" from a few specific points:
1. They are remaining the core meta through every meta shift for 6 months - including an ELITE Sith pass and months now of Dark Side reworks (Sith, DN / ST / SiT release, FO, Empire revamps) - historically that has not happened, especially when you consider how insanely powerful that zDM team was and how different it was from any other meta - that should have almost broken the game - but Chaze swam through it no problem and actually re-defined the meta around them. How do you take a Sith like DN, flip it, and redefine the meta against that beast of a team? That's incredible that a tandem could do that.
2. Each new release that's strong, does NOT take away from their utility - it only serves to add to it and make them stronger. Even opposite faction (like DN) that have no blatant synergy between them. Latest example is R2. That's not how these games work.
I really feel DN and the Sith path was supposed to bring balance against the Rebels / Chaze, not take Chaze to another level with hide the Nihilius and use DN to actually crush his own faction
Chaze is not unbeatable - yet - but they are absolutely breaking the game part of GoH and that train is only picking up steam, not slowing down even as many toons are released and many have been reworked.
oh great, another "can be beaten easily" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz
define "easily" and cite these "many other teams."
'easily' to me means, defeated in 2:00 mins or less in Arena and 'many other teams' = 3 or more. You're not beating them 'easily' and you're not doing so with 'many other teams' so just stop with the my dad can beat up your dad nonsense.
Is that reall up for debate? No one is denying that except you. Just look it up on YouTube or here on the forum. I personally beat them consistently with Wiggs + lando + Boba + St han. But unfortunately i didn't take the time because I actually thought nobody cares about that.
So definition of easy: 80% success rate. Happy now?
Sorry mate! But keep on practicing, you'll get there.
You want a Rex nerf but are ok with chaze?
LOL!
I have no comment about what-ifs. First, I have no idea on their development plan where they're taking the game. Second, some are part of the beta team testing new content, but they're bound by a non-disclosure agreement. Third, if we debated future possibilities, we'd be debating forever, and most would be a waste of thought. Without seeing what will be deployed, I'll pass on these types of arguments.
Arena is not broken, but chaze is? Not sure you can have it both ways. Also, since when is length of time a meta has existed been established as a measure of whether a toon is broken? That's your opinion, and I disagree. But let's assume you are correct. Then maybe it follows that the current long lasting chaze meta is more a reflection on the lack of success of toon development and deployment, because as we've both discussed, the chaze meta can be simply ended by new toons with targeted synergy against the duo.
I don't know how the game is supposed to work. But again, this is more a reflection on a lack-luster new toon development - whether planned or unplanned I don't know.
Let's assume unplanned. One could only conclude, recent game updates on the whole have been a failure from a lack of design creativity; it doesn't directly follow that it's because the game is broken.
Feel? Anyways, I can easily beat standard rex/chaze/gk/nihilus teams using a gk lead, a nihilus lead, a Vader lead, a maul lead, a Qgj lead and remain tops in arena. The teams I can field with these leads do hold up on Def. And I don't use Chaze except I'll use Baze with Barris under gk(L). People use Chaze because most are sheep and follow the leader. Monkey see monkey do.
Your attempts to say that my beating chaze doesn't mean the game isn't broken is irrelevant. From my perspective, I'm winning (without chaze) therefore it's irrelevant if the game is broken or not in your pov. It's a moot point.
JSA has outlined some very specific (and very obvious) indications that Chaze is overpowered - especially given the recent (and apparent, future) release of more Rebels that synergize with them (which they didn't need to be a major part of the meta - even to this point).
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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I'm willing to cut some of them some slack. Many are simply defending their investment. My issue is that many are doing so with very little objectivity, simply rationalizing that since they lose on defense, Chaze must be balanced (which, as I have mentioned numerous times, is proof of nothing).
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
No need to nerf to them. Moreover, that would be a mistake. Why take something away people spent money on? CG could (and should) focus on other tactical options to counter Chaze and further develop the tactical part of the game.
Sure like Ahasoka. And btw, all the toons that Chaze made a joke also cost money, but only your money count, no?
Not yet. She hasn't been released yet. lol.
If that video is true though, yeah, it's going to absolutely be awful. Not quite sure how developers can be so completely out of touch with their own game.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I posted earlier in this thread and share the opinion of OP. I spent money on toons that are outclassed by Chaze. I am a bit angry because of this. But still I don't think a nerf is a good idea. I want a more general solution like, for example, more toons to be able to ignore taunts. Gives a new tactical option and helps against a lot of different squads that are heavily relying on taunts.
Please don't just post what comes to your mind without reading the thread.
I'm sorry if I came at you, honestly after watching the Ahsoka video I didn't think clearly anymore.
Chaze is broken and not arena at the moment. It's very simple. Arena is not broken because you can beat Gk / R2 / Chaze without using any of those 4, you are not forced in to a mirror match or using the same 3/4 core toons. Chaze is broken because they are bypassing the cycle part of the game. They take a Sith like DN, who they have no deliberate synergy with, and it forms the core of the best team in the middle of the greatest pass (Sith) the game has ever had by far. We are 2+ months deep in dark side releases / updates and Chaze has only gotten stronger over that time. Through every meta since they have been released, they are the best defense team and an elite offense attacking team. This is only possible because they do so much - so they are ready made and will be fine in any meta. They have zero inherent weaknesses.
That Chaze meta is not due to poor toon development - zSO, zKylo, DN, SA, SiT, Dooku ... these are all excellent toons. It's their ability, because they do everything, to hijack other factions best players and make them better with them than in their own synergy team. Think about that. Team synergy is < Chaze. That's a problem no? It's not toon release issues - CG is putting out fire - but Chaze is engulfing anything good, no matter the faction.
I think your indifference to the future and what ifs is quite shortsighted. I've seen this happen already in other games - I've lived though full out game breaks where 200+ roster was boiled down to 4-5 heroes that required a mirror match. It can happen, it has happened before, but let's not let that happen here. The game is too good overall and too many awesome characters and skills. I feel the game is dangerously close to breaking in terms of needing a core 3/4 heroes and REALLY getting close to breaking the LS / DS part of the game.
In the end though, I'm not going to get upset and hoot and holler. I'll take what the game gives. It's not my game - just sharing my view and opinions and I'm seeing the game trending in the direction of how CG's other game - Heroes of Dragon Age - went as well. The entire good / evil cleanse / debuff dynamic is eerily similar and the way we are closing in on a very elite handful of toons vs. the entire roster....
Look at this GG report - you know what sticks out the most as a huge warning sign that the game is breaking / consolidating on a very few toons? The chasm that has opened up from the top 5 most used characters and the 6th+ most. You go from 44% usage on Chirrut all the way down to 27% on DM. And that gap is in the process of widening day by day. It's not shrinking. Trends are for further widening of this elite / non-elite gap. R2 - very much riding Chaze's coattails, is now past Savage and Kylo - both very strong characters. In a matter of days he will almost assuredly pass both EP and DM to move in to 6th. You can put your head in the sand to these trends, but the game is absolutely in the process of consolidating / collapsing on a very few characters and Chaze is at the core of that collapse.
https://swgoh.gg/meta-report/
Just plain logic concerning game design, balance and the future of core game elements.
Thank you for taking all the time to make constructive posts to show glaring issues with game balance.
Unfortunately most people can't formulate logical arguments and won't be able to have relevant conversations
Twas a wonderful summary of exactly what has happened.
For instance a sith medic droid could cleanse debuffs on allies when they inflict debuffs... or gain tm for debuffs inflicted or increase dmg for # of buffs on the target ally (through like an adrenal shot) the possibilitys are endless yall just need to quit whining about chaze and think of solutions to what they bring that others lack, and that is synergy!
Dont need more power creep