How do we make debuff teams relevant again?
Adding new characters with flashy new debuffs is silly with the triple cleanse is dominating everything. If it's not tenacity up preventing the debuff in the first place, it's cleansed too soon to do jack squat.
Sure there are debuff teams that can win. But there are plenty of others that could be cool to use that are rendered useless by the ever rising rex/chaze/gk triple threat.
The game has become very limited due to poor choices in character design. Is there any remedy to this? A character or zeta that prevents enemy cleanses perhaps.
I keep feeling like the game is becoming broken beyond repair.
Sure there are debuff teams that can win. But there are plenty of others that could be cool to use that are rendered useless by the ever rising rex/chaze/gk triple threat.
The game has become very limited due to poor choices in character design. Is there any remedy to this? A character or zeta that prevents enemy cleanses perhaps.
I keep feeling like the game is becoming broken beyond repair.
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Hopefully there will be a solution. Zaul can still beat the triple cleanse on offense but not because of debuffs. It's the stealth/crit immunity/TM gain that wins. Debuff teams without that might as well stay home.
Maybe an emperor palp zeta that can make his shocks permanent and non-resistible. This style should begin to show up before we just stop ten up/mass cleanses from occurring.
Maybe EP could get a zeta "enemy negative effects are re-applied the first time they are dispelled"?
There definitely needs to be more uncleansables. The game is kind of ridiculous in its current state. Even people who use the cleanse teams are getting sick of it. I was hoping Tarkin's rework would be something along those lines but it sounds pretty blah.
I think tarkin could be awesome. I'd of loved it if his debuff were non-resistible to Everyone and on rebels, can't be cleansed.
Maybe tenacity up should become just that. Raise tenacity by 40% or whatever. It's currently debuff immunity.
•Make a Nihlus counter (something that blocks drain force)
And:
Missing lead there was GK - I also will switch out DT / DN at times for SiT or Shore.
I've found the key is getting zDV to go first, then DN .... EP doesn't matter the order - save the AOE for round 2 and use hate flow right away - yanks TM and you are hitting harder early on with O up which they can't dispel since Baze is on CD and getting pinned. When EP comes up in rd 2, launch the AOE stun. With a few stuns, the Sith will be back up again, and then use EP to just start spamming the basic. Usually kill baze or GK first.
The nice thing here is since Baze is slow, if Chirrut or GK cleanse in their rd 2 early, Baze has had so much TM removed that he's still in his round 1 and the CD from DN is still on him. With this setup generally baze doesn't get off any specials - since he doesn't get ten up from having DoTs on him I just shock / stun / daze the bajeezus out of him.
Even a slightly different take could get the job done. Crackling doom could be zetaed adding:
"Each time an enemy is damaged by crackling doom it has a 60% chance to lose all buffs, this effect cannot be resisted and the emperor gains 5% turn meter for each enemy who had its buffs removed that way".
We are looking at making debuffs a tactic. Right now, it's very challenging to keep debuffs on your opponent. It's not about removing Their buffs.
They'd have to change the mechanics or open up something totally new. If they want to change it - very easy to do and many ways. I'm not hopeful though as I've seen this pattern over a few mobile games where devs consistently give "bad guys" debuffs, balance their stats down to account for that (EP is classic example) --- then create "good guy" teams with higher stats and immune to debuffs. Ends up being a crummy stat battle which the higher stat good guys win. This goes deep I think to some good v evil conception of how to make a game. That's how you end up with GK / Chaze / R2 or / and Rex where there are 3/4 toons with cleanses and these mega tank / stat teams that are immune to debuffs generally - exception being Vader's DoTs.
And as you point out - now we have a self-cleanser that is now immune to DV - so that is shrinking further still. I'm hoping they change it, a large chunk of the game is being closed out, but I don't see it happening anytime soon unless they do something else we aren't aware of.
But Like the last guys said, Tenacity up is not balanced.
Tenacity down will land when the opponent has tenacity up and they do cancel each other out.
True, I was thinking about the tm gain combined with the one from shock, it could make him go pretty often, meaning more chances to land the passive mass dispel.
But the tm gain portion could be traded for landing a shock, or his leader ability could be upgraded (still with a zeta) to share the tm and health gain to both sith and empire allies, plus "debuffs applied by sith and empire allies can't be dispelled" (they still expire normally)
Tenacity up is unbalanced, but the solution is not having a single character removing it and or making debuffs unresistable AND undispellable. I think that would be too much. Either a rework on how tenacity up works, or someone with a passive mass dispell/ the ability to make debuffs unresistable or undispellable could help.
An aoe tenacity down could work. Tenacity down already cannot be resisted and it cancels out tenacity up.
Agreed, but you still need debuffs to stay.
Right now we have three problems: landing the debuffs, making them stay, and do that without breaking the game or concentrate everything on a single "must have" toon
Edit: grammar
Tenacity Down does land if you have tenacity up. It doesn't over write it but it negates it.
Tenacity up is + 999900% tenacity
Tenacity Down is - 999900% tenacity
When both are applied they cancel.
Most cleanses are on a cooldown. So it's not terrible to reapply. Currently, chirriut and Rex can grant ten up which removers and cleanse.
Maybe we need a rapid low/no damage tenacity down aoe coupled with tm reduction/cooldown increase so we can have a turn to apply critical debuffs.
The problem is, We will need to slot in the "must have" toon since the game favors buffs and cleanses over debuffs.
The issue is less abilities being applied and more getting them to stick.
Yes this is true. I think we may need heroes who can prevent certain debuffs from being cleared. This avenue just pigeon holes that hero though. Similar to Vader.
Maybe a passive unique will do the trick. Or perhaps debuffs can "resist" being cleaned. Add this to tenacity/potency or maybe a new stat all together. This could allow debuff centered teams to stack a stat to defend cleansers.