How are weaker guilds to clear HAAT if they continue to lose their members to HAAT guilds?

Replies

  • https://imgur.com/gallery/ICBhl

    First time we beat HAAT a month ago, using zylos and super teams. If you look at the data, only 15 members got over 1million damage. 10 people had a super team of zader, clones, resistance. Most members did way below 2%. Some of our members are below level 85. The key was planning. We knew our weakness and what we wanted to do to fix that. Phase 2 is the hump. We dedicated our top guys to zaders, 1 clone team and 2 resistance. Also most, 50% had tie pilot. Tie pilot and 3 tanks for phase 3, pick teebo or Palp or chirpa for leader. Throw the kichen sink in 4. It was very hard, took 2 months of planning, but can be accomplished by a weak guild. We've had it on farm and we have a member that will have general Kenobi before he hits level 85. I was all for keeping nute cause I understand how hard the path is. Some members did talk about quitting all together or moving on. Withoiy cafeful planning, the answer is join a haat guild, that answer sucks. It was a great feeling bringing up all our lower members. Standing on that mountain with everyone.
  • dad2my3
    1561 posts Member
    marauder wrote: »
    partner with a stronger guild. But both guilds must hit 30k daily. then temporarily exchange some member. When the weaker guild can do HAAT by itself then go back to original setup.

    This is what we do. It works well. The heavy hitters rotate back to the training guild to pull them through and help out, then come back.
  • https://imgur.com/gallery/ICBhl

    First time we beat HAAT a month ago, using zylos and super teams. If you look at the data, only 15 members got over 1million damage. 10 people had a super team of zader, clones, resistance. Most members did way below 2%. Some of our members are below level 85. The key was planning. We knew our weakness and what we wanted to do to fix that. Phase 2 is the hump. We dedicated our top guys to zaders, 1 clone team and 2 resistance. Also most, 50% had tie pilot. Tie pilot and 3 tanks for phase 3, pick teebo or Palp or chirpa for leader. Throw the kichen sink in 4. It was very hard, took 2 months of planning, but can be accomplished by a weak guild. We've had it on farm and we have a member that will have general Kenobi before he hits level 85. I was all for keeping nute cause I understand how hard the path is. Some members did talk about quitting all together or moving on. Withoiy cafeful planning, the answer is join a haat guild, that answer sucks. It was a great feeling bringing up all our lower members. Standing on that mountain with everyone.

    That is a great story. Was your guild a "day one" guild?
  • bradfern12 wrote: »
    https://imgur.com/gallery/ICBhl

    First time we beat HAAT a month ago, using zylos and super teams. If you look at the data, only 15 members got over 1million damage. 10 people had a super team of zader, clones, resistance. Most members did way below 2%. Some of our members are below level 85. The key was planning. We knew our weakness and what we wanted to do to fix that. Phase 2 is the hump. We dedicated our top guys to zaders, 1 clone team and 2 resistance. Also most, 50% had tie pilot. Tie pilot and 3 tanks for phase 3, pick teebo or Palp or chirpa for leader. Throw the kichen sink in 4. It was very hard, took 2 months of planning, but can be accomplished by a weak guild. We've had it on farm and we have a member that will have general Kenobi before he hits level 85. I was all for keeping nute cause I understand how hard the path is. Some members did talk about quitting all together or moving on. Withoiy cafeful planning, the answer is join a haat guild, that answer sucks. It was a great feeling bringing up all our lower members. Standing on that mountain with everyone.

    That is a great story. Was your guild a "day one" guild?

    Yes we were a day 1 guild. I'm a jan 2016 shard. Some are day 1, Nov 2015.
  • Gamorrean
    2745 posts Member
    https://imgur.com/gallery/ICBhl

    First time we beat HAAT a month ago, using zylos and super teams. If you look at the data, only 15 members got over 1million damage. 10 people had a super team of zader, clones, resistance. Most members did way below 2%. Some of our members are below level 85. The key was planning. We knew our weakness and what we wanted to do to fix that. Phase 2 is the hump. We dedicated our top guys to zaders, 1 clone team and 2 resistance. Also most, 50% had tie pilot. Tie pilot and 3 tanks for phase 3, pick teebo or Palp or chirpa for leader. Throw the kichen sink in 4. It was very hard, took 2 months of planning, but can be accomplished by a weak guild. We've had it on farm and we have a member that will have general Kenobi before he hits level 85. I was all for keeping nute cause I understand how hard the path is. Some members did talk about quitting all together or moving on. Withoiy cafeful planning, the answer is join a haat guild, that answer sucks. It was a great feeling bringing up all our lower members. Standing on that mountain with everyone.

    Very good job!
  • Tiggus
    766 posts Member
    If you have a good active guild that has motivation but lacks damage, it's probably easy to recruit a mercenary or two and they should give you the required boost to clear it.

    I am one (a merc), and joined a guild exactly like yours: a decent size, a few hard hitters and a lot of low damage, last hAAT attempt failed half of P2. It took the help of 2 mercenaries to clear the first hAAT (we made like 15m combined damage), and then things picked up really fast and within a couple of weeks, that guild is now launching 2 raids a week and clearing them in a few hours. I'm still there, but they wouldn't even notice if I posted 0 damage now.

    If you want a honest assessment of how close you are to be hAAT-ready, or how much help would get you there, launch a trial raid, do your best (collectively), and post the results here (like where did you reach, how many scored damage > 1mil, how many have TFP and/or EP fully geared, do you have 1 Zylo,...)

    I think P3 is still the death march for most aspiring hAAT guilds: P1 is a matter of Zylo and patience, P2 has incredibly potent teams (Zader, Clones), and everybody in the guild has some flavor of Rebels who will do good damage in P4. P3 is unforgiving, and small fish (G7, G8 random squads) just get grilled by the initial barrage of the droids without making any significant damage. A good TFP / EP team makes 500k. A similarly geared traditional offensive team (Rey, GS,... no particular synergy) makes like 50k.
    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • kalidor
    2121 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Assuming that you want to stay together as a guild and not disband, you've got some choices to make.
    First, you can start culling the members that aren't pulling their weight. Infrequent logins, less than 200 coins a day, etc. We had to do this and though it lost us some longtime members, we're a healthier guild for it and have picked up some really good players.
    Second, once you free up spots recruit here or on the other forums. Clearly state that you're attempting to build toward hAAT, your guild rules and expectations. Then you won't waste your time with people who quit within days (or at least not as many).
    Third, coordinate so that people are building proper squads for AAT. You need clones, rebels, droids, jawas (esp JE and Nebit), Emp, Chirp. zVader, TFP, etc. And you need to get those geared up to at least G10, with 5* mods (you can juggle those around). Squishy attackers should be G11, they need the extra protection.
    Fourth, keep the guild chat active. Continually post strategies, talk shop, and generally make it a place players want to be. Discord or another group chat app can also help a lot with that. Drop people that hurt morale - we had to get rid of two that were making the chat toxic, despite them both having decent squads.
    Finally, you can either have patience and build slowly, or start buying crystal boosters (the best value by far) to accelerate your progress.
    We're in the same position as you (stalling out in late P3), and have just spent the last month doing all of the above. We'll be doing another attempt soon to gauge our progress, but things are already looking much better overall.
    Good Luck!
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • I have a suggestion.

    So people are upset that these current methods are being "fixed". I sort of see why they are being fixed, but I'm sensitive to why this will have a negative impact on a lot of developing guilds. In the interest of full disclosure this will impact my guild as well, but I'm trying to see both perspectives and figure out a solution.

    I think the main thing is that members of the player base can't determine where the line is drawn. If I may postulate, it seems that it's ok to do high numbers of damage as long as there is one character working in concert with another 4 characters, Eg, Zader, PZ teams, Teebo etc. If on the other hand it's less than a full squad, Eg, Zylo, NG, etc, it's "Unintended Behavior".

    I think the main problem is we as a player base can't tell where there is a recognized "bug or exploit", the dev team has singled out for fixing. For example,

    "*We have known about this issue*, but because there was never a situation where Nute’s ability was dramatically undermining the game, we had originally categorized Nute’s issue as a low priority bug. That said, we did not take this issue in to account when we buffed the Turn Meter gain on Nute (we increased the Turn Meter gain from 35% to 50%), and so these assists, coupled with the buff a few weeks back, are fundamentally undermining the Heroic AAT Raid."

    Also this,

    Finally, we are aware that there is an issue with the ESCAPE ability that is granted to players via the Raid mechanics. We know that this too is undermining the intent of the Heroic Raid Tiers, and we are looking in to solutions for this. We will discuss that update a little later.

    So my suggestion is this, could we please have a "Known bug list thread?". To be clear what I'm asking for is similar to the patch update post where the player base can see what is considered a "bug" to the devs and is in line to be fixed.

    I believe that if we have this simple thing, everyone will be able to tell what is on the "fix radar" and will be able to avoid headaches in the future. Just my thoughts, please consider.

    @EA_Jesse @CG_NotReallyAJedi @CG_Kozispoon







  • Sev74907
    211 posts Member
    bradfern12 wrote: »
    I'm writing this for you to read because the only way to beat the tank is to have at least 40 people with REALLY good squads. Maxxed out squads for each phase. These top 40 could probably carry the bottom 10.

    40 people with really good squads? Depends on how you define really good. If you define really good as 1mil+ then yes but if you can get a few people to do 3-4+ then you may not need 40. We have 15 non-participants/registers. We've only been doing HAAT for the past couple months.

    TC: The kicker is having a full guild dedicated to working on HAAT teams. Once we all bought into that strategy we consistently improved. The biggest thing is to have good P2/3 teams as those two phases are much more difficult.

    After a couple months of having HAAT on farm we are finishing it in 4 hours with a couple members hitting for 6mil+

    You'll get there eventually if everyone jumps on the same page
  • Sev74907 wrote: »
    bradfern12 wrote: »
    I'm writing this for you to read because the only way to beat the tank is to have at least 40 people with REALLY good squads. Maxxed out squads for each phase. These top 40 could probably carry the bottom 10.

    40 people with really good squads? Depends on how you define really good. If you define really good as 1mil+ then yes but if you can get a few people to do 3-4+ then you may not need 40. We have 15 non-participants/registers. We've only been doing HAAT for the past couple months.

    TC: The kicker is having a full guild dedicated to working on HAAT teams. Once we all bought into that strategy we consistently improved. The biggest thing is to have good P2/3 teams as those two phases are much more difficult.

    I define it as all 4 phases 1+ million.

    After a couple months of having HAAT on farm we are finishing it in 4 hours with a couple members hitting for 6mil+

    You'll get there eventually if everyone jumps on the same page

    Agree on everything you say here. However, IF the OP's guild is newish, meaning they have a lot of members who were not part of the first 3-4 months of the game's initial launch then you really need 40+ players who are dedicated to hAAT.

    This assumes there are not 5-6 mega whales who have unlimited resources.


  • Ipoopsy2
    60 posts Member
    Then take your own self and go and join a HAAT guild. That's how you grow. Get over your dream of being a leader/officer and in control. Being smart and less of an egomaniac is the key to success.

    Wait wait wait... says the guy who said "I'm a god on this forum" ?
    p8jga_s-200x150.gif

    That's why his nose is always brown.
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    I don't understand this "guild loyalty". I have been in only 2 guilds since guilds were 1st introduced. The 2nd being a merger of our guild and 2 others.

    If u hold yourself to a higher standard than your guildmates, then they r hampering your progression and aren't the right guild 4 u.

    Dunno where this sense of loyalty comes from...especially in a game...towards a group that obviously doesn't meet your needs.

    How many of u kept the same job u had since high school and encouraged the ppl around u and over u to pay better, work harder, come together ? I highly doubt any of u have.

    U mature and follow your own path, eventually finding a business that meets your needs and encourages growth and achievement...or start your own.

    Or, u can b that 40-year-old creeper still at McDonald's flipping burgers or at Harkin's collecting ticket stubs bcuz u just would hate to move on and leave your under-achieving friends..
  • Maybe weaker guilds weren't meant to clear HAAT.

    Either recruit, whale it, quit, merge or deal with not doing it.

    You cant recruit though. So really the option is to give up, or ride someone else's coattails. It isnt something guilds can realistically work towards. It's sad that the participation trophy of being another leech in a whale guild is better than actually trying to work towards a goal.
  • Well take my perspective for example. I'm a leader of a formerly "casual" guild that is working towards heroic AAT, if I were to drop the casual players then I'd have to lose about 20% of loyal ticket producing members and wait for others to join. New recruiting is really, really hard if you don't already take down HAAT. Almost impossible actually so it'll be a really long time till I fill their spots.

    On the other hand if I don't drop them and have to ask everyone to farm another team it'll be months more and I'll lose members that I need to finish other phases because they already have at least one HAAT ready squad and can easily find another guild. So what is the better choice?
  • Well take my perspective for example. I'm a leader of a formerly "casual" guild that is working towards heroic AAT, if I were to drop the casual players then I'd have to lose about 20% of loyal ticket producing members and wait for others to join. New recruiting is really, really hard if you don't already take down HAAT. Almost impossible actually so it'll be a really long time till I fill their spots.

    On the other hand if I don't drop them and have to ask everyone to farm another team it'll be months more and I'll lose members that I need to finish other phases because they already have at least one HAAT ready squad and can easily find another guild. So what is the better choice?

    Do you currently have a full guild? If so, can you find a guild in a similar position on the forum that would consider forming an alliance?

    Use the top 25 players from each guild to form the HAAT guild, and put the more casual players in the sister guild. Keep communications open between both guilds. Once HAAT guild is regularly farming the HAAT raid, regularly check HAAT team progression within the sister guild. At an appropriate time, put the guild membership back as was before the alliance so that you now have two guild farming the HAAT
  • Well take my perspective for example. I'm a leader of a formerly "casual" guild that is working towards heroic AAT, if I were to drop the casual players then I'd have to lose about 20% of loyal ticket producing members and wait for others to join. New recruiting is really, really hard if you don't already take down HAAT. Almost impossible actually so it'll be a really long time till I fill their spots.

    On the other hand if I don't drop them and have to ask everyone to farm another team it'll be months more and I'll lose members that I need to finish other phases because they already have at least one HAAT ready squad and can easily find another guild. So what is the better choice?

    Do you currently have a full guild? If so, can you find a guild in a similar position on the forum that would consider forming an alliance?

    Use the top 25 players from each guild to form the HAAT guild, and put the more casual players in the sister guild. Keep communications open between both guilds. Once HAAT guild is regularly farming the HAAT raid, regularly check HAAT team progression within the sister guild. At an appropriate time, put the guild membership back as was before the alliance so that you now have two guild farming the HAAT

    Forgive my ignorance, but isn't this the same as dropping the 20%? I mean they go to a "waiting guild" and the stronger of us combine to make a HAAT ready guild. This is funneling basically and you essentially leave the others behind.
  • Well take my perspective for example. I'm a leader of a formerly "casual" guild that is working towards heroic AAT, if I were to drop the casual players then I'd have to lose about 20% of loyal ticket producing members and wait for others to join. New recruiting is really, really hard if you don't already take down HAAT. Almost impossible actually so it'll be a really long time till I fill their spots.

    On the other hand if I don't drop them and have to ask everyone to farm another team it'll be months more and I'll lose members that I need to finish other phases because they already have at least one HAAT ready squad and can easily find another guild. So what is the better choice?

    Do you currently have a full guild? If so, can you find a guild in a similar position on the forum that would consider forming an alliance?

    Use the top 25 players from each guild to form the HAAT guild, and put the more casual players in the sister guild. Keep communications open between both guilds. Once HAAT guild is regularly farming the HAAT raid, regularly check HAAT team progression within the sister guild. At an appropriate time, put the guild membership back as was before the alliance so that you now have two guild farming the HAAT

    Forgive my ignorance, but isn't this the same as dropping the 20%? I mean they go to a "waiting guild" and the stronger of us combine to make a HAAT ready guild. This is funneling basically and you essentially leave the others behind.

    No, it's not. If you dropped your 20% your guild will be doomed because recruiting is nearly impossible for nAAT guilds.

    Depending on how strong your beta guild is you may be able to shuffle players around once your Alpha guild gets settled.

    You may even need a third "Charlie" guild for the ultra casual players that either don't communicate or do not produce tickets.
  • I've read through the posts on this thread, some of the posters have hit the nail on the head. This was a huge problem in November last year and many proud guilds were destroyed. Lots of whales which had spent a lot of time and money on the game didn't want to be held back by those who hadn't.

    The forward thinking guilds started to expand and grow, they are now the ones which are prospering as they can facilitate support and growth for players with weaker accounts. The guilds that didn't take action last November to "weather the storm" so to speak are the ones struggling.

    I am not sure really how any guild that has been around since October cannot beat the HAAT. If you are in a guild which has not grown enough since the raid's release to beat it, then you don't have very committed players and of course you are going to lose your committed players along the way to guilds that actually care.

    As others before have stated, there are two possible roads from here. Either the guild officers and leader swallow their pride and join with another guild, or just resign to the fact that you will always be a casual guild not meant for end-game content.
    Empire Relic
  • Ipoopsy2 wrote: »
    Then take your own self and go and join a HAAT guild. That's how you grow. Get over your dream of being a leader/officer and in control. Being smart and less of an egomaniac is the key to success.

    Wait wait wait... says the guy who said "I'm a god on this forum" ?
    p8jga_s-200x150.gif

    That's why his nose is always brown.

    Are you being racist?

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Ipoopsy2 wrote: »
    Then take your own self and go and join a HAAT guild. That's how you grow. Get over your dream of being a leader/officer and in control. Being smart and less of an egomaniac is the key to success.

    Wait wait wait... says the guy who said "I'm a god on this forum" ?
    p8jga_s-200x150.gif

    That's why his nose is always brown.

    Are you being racist?

    A brown noser, someone who kisses butt. When you kiss butt, your protruding nose enters the rectum and becomes brown.

    Are you being vulgar?
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Ipoopsy2 wrote: »
    Then take your own self and go and join a HAAT guild. That's how you grow. Get over your dream of being a leader/officer and in control. Being smart and less of an egomaniac is the key to success.

    Wait wait wait... says the guy who said "I'm a god on this forum" ?
    p8jga_s-200x150.gif

    That's why his nose is always brown.

    Are you being racist?

    A brown noser, someone who kisses butt. When you kiss butt, your protruding nose enters the rectum and becomes brown.

    Are you being vulgar?

    To all the overly sensitive little souls on this forum who require a safe space, I probably am being vulgar.

    Are you being mean?
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi1337
    33 posts Member
    You need normal people to begin with, not Kenobi shard whores.

    Today,all members(myself included) of KoR Resillience unlocked their Kenobi. We lost only 2 people(who went to HAAT guild) while we were gearing characters needed for HAAT, which took us about 2 months. So, it is not imposible, you just need strong leaders and good organisation.
  • Ipoopsy2 wrote: »
    Then take your own self and go and join a HAAT guild. That's how you grow. Get over your dream of being a leader/officer and in control. Being smart and less of an egomaniac is the key to success.

    Wait wait wait... says the guy who said "I'm a god on this forum" ?
    p8jga_s-200x150.gif

    That's why his nose is always brown.

    Are you being racist?

    A brown noser, someone who kisses butt. When you kiss butt, your protruding nose enters the rectum and becomes brown.

    Are you being vulgar?

    To all the overly sensitive little souls on this forum who require a safe space, I probably am being vulgar.

    Are you being mean?

    Probably.

    Are you being silly?

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    marauder wrote: »
    partner with a stronger guild. But both guilds must hit 30k daily. then temporarily exchange some member. When the weaker guild can do HAAT by itself then go back to original setup.

    We did that in my alt's guild. Two Danish guilds joined forces to form a hAAT guild while the other guild could still do hPit and nAAT as before. The lower guild lost 5—10 members at first, but due to good leadership they recruited replacements and now both guilds work well.
  • Juex777 wrote: »
    This is a possibly a deal breaker. Its harmful to in game relationship health. You have to leave your guild to do haat. How many of you did that honestly? It really bites.

    I did it. got GK halfway unlocked, and said screw it, screw GK, I'm going back home. So I returned to my first guild. In my absence folks had been working smart and hard. Within 2 weeks, we killed hAAT. We have not failed an attempt since, everyone has GK unlocked, it's almost a mindless farm now.

    The thing about hAAT is it's a threshhold sort of thing.. Until you reach it, it feels like the bar is miles above your head.. and after you beat it, it's like looking down at it by your feet. After we started killing it, we haven't really had more than a couple leave due to daily ticket issues, one leave game. To the OP, man I feel for ya.. but hang in there and keep trying to recruit
    I am the Tard of Tards
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