Thrawn counter attack shenanigans

So I have a Zeta on Thrawns unique and it seems to have an issue dealing with toons who also have counter attack. So if Biggs attacks Thrawn he will counter attack 100% of the time. Problem is Biggs hits you right back. A counter on a counter. It is horrible. I've been hit with Biggs assist special, Thrawn counters and gets smoked by Biggs again. It destroyed my Thrawn. Ive seen it happen multiple times now. Any one else experience this?

Replies

  • Riffinator
    2586 posts Member
    It's not a counter Biggs gains tm when hit by Empire. Look at his unique
    "ARE WE BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON."
  • Vertigo
    4497 posts Member
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
  • Well. That's ridiculous. Lol.
    I thought a counter attack didn't function as a turn. Obviously it does, but that seems out of line. So ideally Biggs will wreck any Empire toon that has a counter. Ouch
  • STRIKEBOMB
    1232 posts Member
    Well. That's ridiculous. Lol.
    I thought a counter attack didn't function as a turn. Obviously it does, but that seems out of line. So ideally Biggs will wreck any Empire toon that has a counter. Ouch

    That's why you fracture Biggs :)
  • Vertigo
    4497 posts Member
    Well. That's ridiculous. Lol.
    I thought a counter attack didn't function as a turn. Obviously it does, but that seems out of line. So ideally Biggs will wreck any Empire toon that has a counter. Ouch

    It's not functioning as a turn, but it is functioning as "Damage." Biggs doesn't gain 100% TM when an Empire character uses a turn to hit them, Biggs gains 100% TM when he takes damage from Empire characters. But yes Biggs will wreck Empire characters that counter attack. Unless he dodges or is stunned or shocked or dazed.
  • Well. That's ridiculous. Lol.
    I thought a counter attack didn't function as a turn. Obviously it does, but that seems out of line. So ideally Biggs will wreck any Empire toon that has a counter. Ouch

    It's not a counter though. He gains 100% turn meter
  • DropItLikeItHoth
    140 posts Member
    edited June 2017
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.
    Heck on offense you could purposely attack Thrawn with Biggs every time and start a damage loop until one toon dies.

  • Vertigo
    4497 posts Member
    edited June 2017
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    On Offense, a Biggs could essentially just continue to hit a Zeta'd Thrawn until Thrawn dies because he'll continue to get 100% TM. If you have the Omega on Thrawn's Basic though you might be able to stun Biggs so he won't always be able to use the turn that he gets.
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.
  • Riffinator
    2586 posts Member
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    Again it has to do with THRAWN COUNTER not Biggs he doesn't have a counter he just gets 100% tm and goes again
    "ARE WE BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON."
  • Vertigo
    4497 posts Member
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    So you're saying that Biggs used his assist attack on Thrawn, then Thrawn counter attacked Biggs. Biggs gained 100% TM, hit Thrawn AGAIN and then Thrawn didn't counter attack the second attack?
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    So you're saying that Biggs used his assist attack on Thrawn, then Thrawn counter attacked Biggs. Biggs gained 100% TM, hit Thrawn AGAIN and then Thrawn didn't counter attack the second attack?

    Yes. He didn't counter the second attack from Biggs. Now I'll try again a few different ways, but it seems like Biggs is the Thrawn killer if that's the case. You could theoretically tunnel damage down on Thrawn until he's dead or Biggs is stunned. Pretty darn close to the dreaded damage loop.
  • Riffinator
    2586 posts Member
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    So you're saying that Biggs used his assist attack on Thrawn, then Thrawn counter attacked Biggs. Biggs gained 100% TM, hit Thrawn AGAIN and then Thrawn didn't counter attack the second attack?

    Yes. He didn't counter the second attack from Biggs. Now I'll try again a few different ways, but it seems like Biggs is the Thrawn killer if that's the case. You could theoretically tunnel damage down on Thrawn until he's dead or Biggs is stunned. Pretty darn close to the dreaded damage loop.

    Except go the fact that if it's a omegad thrawn the first attack should inflict AB and the second would stun him
    "ARE WE BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON."
  • Vertigo
    4497 posts Member
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    So you're saying that Biggs used his assist attack on Thrawn, then Thrawn counter attacked Biggs. Biggs gained 100% TM, hit Thrawn AGAIN and then Thrawn didn't counter attack the second attack?

    Yes. He didn't counter the second attack from Biggs. Now I'll try again a few different ways, but it seems like Biggs is the Thrawn killer if that's the case. You could theoretically tunnel damage down on Thrawn until he's dead or Biggs is stunned. Pretty darn close to the dreaded damage loop.

    Well Thrawn SHOULD have Counter attacked the second attack from Biggs if that's the case. If you can get it to happen again I'd report it as a bug.
  • Josh_K
    1150 posts Member
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Biggs gains 100% TM when he is hit by a critical hit or by an Empire character. Thrawn is Empire so Biggs will gain 100% TM from being hit by Thrawn's counter attacks no matter what. It's not a counter attack, Biggs is just taking his turn and hitting Thrawn. No bug.
    So if that's truly the case why didn't my Thrawn hit him back immediately with his counter? If it was a new turn generated by TM Thrawn should have counter attacked.

    Pretty sure you said Thrawn already did hit him with the counter attack...? Let's get this straight:
    1. Biggs hit's Thrawn with assist Special
    2. Thrawn Counter attacks Biggs
    3. Biggs gains 100% TM from being hit by Empire character
    4. Biggs takes another turn and hits Thrawn again
    5. Thrawn is dead? If not, Thrawn should counter attack that second hit.
    6. If thrawn didn't counter that second hit... Was Thrawn Dazed/Stunned?

    It didn't kill him. He was full health and protection. He was knocking on deaths door, but should have countered. It was a Wedge lead, Biggs, R2, Fulcrum Ashoka and GK. None of those guys dish out daze or anything that would interfere with counters. Biggs wasn't stealthed.

    So you're saying that Biggs used his assist attack on Thrawn, then Thrawn counter attacked Biggs. Biggs gained 100% TM, hit Thrawn AGAIN and then Thrawn didn't counter attack the second attack?

    Yes. He didn't counter the second attack from Biggs. Now I'll try again a few different ways, but it seems like Biggs is the Thrawn killer if that's the case. You could theoretically tunnel damage down on Thrawn until he's dead or Biggs is stunned. Pretty darn close to the dreaded damage loop.

    Or if you have a taunting tank then this never happens.
  • First attack is speed up, then ability block and then stun.
  • Riffinator
    2586 posts Member
    First attack is speed up, then ability block and then stun.

    First attack turns INTO AB and then if hit will be stunned
    "ARE WE BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON."
  • Thanks. That speed up disappears immediately.
  • Dathca
    40 posts Member
    edited June 2017
    The only explanation if no debuffs were involved, is thrawns fracture expired on whoever you put it on.
  • Dathca wrote: »
    The only explanation if no debuffs were involved, is thrawns fracture expired on whoever you put it on.

    Hey! Look at that, someone figured it out. If Thrawn got TM and had a turn he would have lost Fracture. Since he only counters when Fracture is active that seems the most likely scenario.
  • Arkham
    275 posts Member
    Try sitting through a K2/Biggs damage loop ...
    Enthusiast of undervalued toons, general dismisser of trends,
    https://swgoh.gg/u/arkham/, A Team
  • Saladius
    102 posts Member
    You can still hope biggs will avoid the counter with his buff :D
  • Dathca wrote: »
    The only explanation if no debuffs were involved, is thrawns fracture expired on whoever you put it on.

    Hey! Look at that, someone figured it out. If Thrawn got TM and had a turn he would have lost Fracture. Since he only counters when Fracture is active that seems the most likely scenario.

    Or else Biggs just dodged the counter because he has evasion up and at 4x speed it wasn't seen.
  • Dathca wrote: »
    The only explanation if no debuffs were involved, is thrawns fracture expired on whoever you put it on.

    Hey! Look at that, someone figured it out. If Thrawn got TM and had a turn he would have lost Fracture. Since he only counters when Fracture is active that seems the most likely scenario.

    That couldn't be the case in this loop.

    OP -- did Biggs do the triple attack on the first attack (the one that Thrawn countered) or the second attack (the one that Thrawn did not counter)? If it's the latter, then it's possible that the Biggs portion of the attack missed, and only the primary attack can be countered.
  • diangelo
    105 posts Member
    i just fought biggs and him and Thrawn went back and forth a bunch of times until biggs died.
  • Olddumper
    3000 posts Member
    diangelo wrote: »
    i just fought biggs and him and Thrawn went back and forth a bunch of times until biggs died.
    Lol Thrawn is pudgy
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