I have zeta'ed thrawn's unique. From my experience & perspective;
I use Thrawn as non-lead as i have tried with the leadership ability its not good for arena. To get hiz zeta leadership usefull you need empire toons that constantly give buffs (status effects) and possible toons are very weak for arena(Veers, snowtrooper, stormtrooper, royal guard)
Thrawn lead might be good if you do galactic war and use 4 x Imperial Troopers (Shoretrooper,General Veers, Deathtropper and Snowtrooper)
For arena game play His zeta is not a game changer but still worth the upgrade
When the enemy is fractured for example Thrawn will not be stunned and will not get any debuffs because of the %100 tenacity
Sometimes when enemy AI shoots or aoe's thrawn will hit with his basic and do great damage. Just for people who may not know, according to swgoh.gg Thrawn's basic is the 2nd highest basic damage of all toons currently in the game. And by chance if Thrawn counters an enemy who has already ability blocked that enemy will be auto-stunned thanks to Thrawn's basic omega.
Lastly for soloing Heroic Rancor and Haat phase 3 its needed and awesome.
I have zeta'ed thrawn's unique. From my experience & perspective;
I use Thrawn as non-lead as i have tried with the leadership ability its not good for arena. To get hiz zeta leadership usefull you need empire toons that constantly give buffs (status effects) and possible toons are very weak for arena(Veers, snowtrooper, stormtrooper, royal guard)
What? Think you need to reread his leader. It has nothing to do with buffs at all. Thrawn's leader gives increased max protection, offense and does crazy things when your toons get debuffed or resist debuffs.
It's stupid good and absolutely destroys any team that relies on debuffs.
I run zzThrawn (L). He is one of the best heroes in the game. His unique is important. His lead is amazing and is important if you run him as lead. You will not regret any zetas spent on him.
To further expand on you actual question, let's understand Fracture and Ebb and Flow.
Here are the basics: Fracture will remove 50% tm from your target, reduce Thrawn's speed by 50% and each time and empire unit uses a special skill, reduce Thrawn's TM by 15%.
If an opponent has 99% tm when fractured, they'd have 49% TM when released from the debuff. If zeta, and 3 specials are used, the opponent would come out around 0% tm. This is mostly useful in raids, as 4 or more specials in arena won't really net any significant reductions.
If you run multiple empire toons, your own units will keep thrawn from having an action. This gives a 4 v 4 scenario. To make up for this, Thrawn has counter chance so he can dish out damage while he is under control and extra tenacity so he is not stunned/dazed. 50% counter isn't too bad, but 50% tenacity isn't much at all. Now when zeta, the counter chance is guaranteed and the 100% tenacity can be significant. My Thrawn has 163% tenacity under fracture. This means any potency at 63% or fewer, and I'll guarantee resist it. Since most people don't stack potency, my thrawn is free to counter attack and rebuke debuffs.
In conclusion, this zeta is really good for arena and raids.
I have zeta'ed thrawn's unique. From my experience & perspective;
I use Thrawn as non-lead as i have tried with the leadership ability its not good for arena. To get hiz zeta leadership usefull you need empire toons that constantly give buffs (status effects) and possible toons are very weak for arena(Veers, snowtrooper, stormtrooper, royal guard)
What? Think you need to reread his leader. It has nothing to do with buffs at all. Thrawn's leader gives increased max protection, offense and does crazy things when your toons get debuffed or resist debuffs.
It's **** good and absolutely destroys any team that relies on debuffs.
I agree that passive bonuses with %15 max protection, %25 offense are pretty nice. But the problem is most top rank arena teams don't rely on debuffs.
Now for non-zeta leadership Thrawn provides "gain %20 turn meter whenever they(empire allies) resist a detrimental effect or suffer a debuff"
Now lets look at top 5 meta teams according to swgoh.gg;
1- Rex · GK · Chirrut · Baze · Darth Nihilus
2- Rex · Chirrut · Baze · Darth Nihilus · R2-D2
3- Wedge · Biggs · Chirrut · Baze · R2-D2
4- QGJ · JKA · GM Yoda · GK · R2-D2
5- Maul · Savage Opress · Emperor · Darth Nihilus · Sith Assassin
Against meta team 1 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Nihilus with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 1 toon.
Against meta team 2 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Nihilus and R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 2 toons
Against meta team 3 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Wedge and R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 2 toons
Against meta team 4 thrawn will fracture GK and there will only be R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 1 toon
Against meta team 5 thrawn will fracture Darth Nihilus if possible and there will be Emperor, Sith Assassin and Maul with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 3 toon
So on top 5 meta teams gain turn meter will be beneficial for 2/5 toons overall and if you are using 5 empire toons in you arena team. Which mostly runs 3 to 4 empire toons generally.
And if we zeta Thrawn's leadership which grants "Whenever an empire ally gains or loses a status effect, they recover %2 protection". Again we wont get the full benefit because most Thrawn(lead) arena teams runs 3 to 4 empire toons and i have already explained on top ranks how many debuffer teams/toons you will face. so there is only the positive status effect/buff part you might want to get hold on and there are already many theories going on this like using chirrut and putting many hots. Problem is most positive status effect giver empire toons like royal guard, general veers, snowtrooper are not arena top rank toons.
The "meta" is changing, and all shards are not the same. Not to mention looking at the top 5 combos for the #1 spot is a super selective list, and not one I'd be comfortable basing a zeta decision on.
@GreenGoblin96 which squad are you using?
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
@GreenGoblin96 which squad are you using?
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
Slow doesn't stack with his 50% down. So, under fracture, it's no big deal. What you should say is stun and daze. Just like I mentioned a few posts above.
The rest is solid and like I already stated, the resist to debuffs and guarantees crit is why the zeta works in arena and the 15% tm reduction is why it works so well in raids.
@GreenGoblin96 which squad are you using?
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
Slow doesn't stack with his 50% down. So, under fracture, it's no big deal. What you should say is stun and daze. Just like I mentioned a few posts above.
The rest is solid and like I already stated, the resist to debuffs and guarantees crit is why the zeta works in arena and the 15% tm reduction is why it works so well in raids.
Not only he did get slowed when he had +50% tenacity, maybe the little I have built in him made it happen, he wouldn't counter 100% making him weaker ^_^
Definitely in raids will be awesome but I can't get to try him because only 6* unlock, will have to be next time ^_^
@GreenGoblin96 which squad are you using?
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
Slow doesn't stack with his 50% down. So, under fracture, it's no big deal. What you should say is stun and daze. Just like I mentioned a few posts above.
The rest is solid and like I already stated, the resist to debuffs and guarantees crit is why the zeta works in arena and the 15% tm reduction is why it works so well in raids.
Not only he did get slowed when he had +50% tenacity, maybe the little I have built in him made it happen, he wouldn't counter 100% making him weaker ^_^
Definitely in raids will be awesome but I can't get to try him because only 6* unlock, will have to be next time ^_^
The slow will still show up as a debuff, but it's overridden by the built-in 50% reduction. And ya, the 50% counter fail rate is awful. So the zeta really shines to always counter and to maximize resists of stun and daze.
You will love his 15% tm reduction in raids. It's a huge deal.
@GreenGoblin96 which squad are you using?
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
His unique lets you solo Rancor on auto and solo P3 of haat. Other than for raids I wouldnt zeta it. But if you have a 7* Thrawn its definitely worth it.
I have zeta'ed thrawn's unique. From my experience & perspective;
I use Thrawn as non-lead as i have tried with the leadership ability its not good for arena. To get hiz zeta leadership usefull you need empire toons that constantly give buffs (status effects) and possible toons are very weak for arena(Veers, snowtrooper, stormtrooper, royal guard)
What? Think you need to reread his leader. It has nothing to do with buffs at all.
No sir, you need to reread his leader ability, specifically the zeta function. "Status effect" is either a buff or a debuff.
Replies
Edit: I don't use him as lead.
I use
rex(L)
GK
Thrawn
DN
R2
and I just don't think it's worth it..
1) it never works against you.
2) you are going to use Thrawn for quite awhile.
Exactly that same team lol. And he's definitely worth it, specially when the enemy tries to stun thrawn, his tenacity lets him keep counterattacking
It is, but it's also about the 100% counter chance and the extra tenacity.
And it is awesome for rancor if you use a zvader team
Grand Admiral's Command might be the most underrated special in the game.
What? Think you need to reread his leader. It has nothing to do with buffs at all. Thrawn's leader gives increased max protection, offense and does crazy things when your toons get debuffed or resist debuffs.
It's stupid good and absolutely destroys any team that relies on debuffs.
Why would running Empire make his Zeta unique better @Olddumper ?
To further expand on you actual question, let's understand Fracture and Ebb and Flow.
Here are the basics: Fracture will remove 50% tm from your target, reduce Thrawn's speed by 50% and each time and empire unit uses a special skill, reduce Thrawn's TM by 15%.
If an opponent has 99% tm when fractured, they'd have 49% TM when released from the debuff. If zeta, and 3 specials are used, the opponent would come out around 0% tm. This is mostly useful in raids, as 4 or more specials in arena won't really net any significant reductions.
If you run multiple empire toons, your own units will keep thrawn from having an action. This gives a 4 v 4 scenario. To make up for this, Thrawn has counter chance so he can dish out damage while he is under control and extra tenacity so he is not stunned/dazed. 50% counter isn't too bad, but 50% tenacity isn't much at all. Now when zeta, the counter chance is guaranteed and the 100% tenacity can be significant. My Thrawn has 163% tenacity under fracture. This means any potency at 63% or fewer, and I'll guarantee resist it. Since most people don't stack potency, my thrawn is free to counter attack and rebuke debuffs.
In conclusion, this zeta is really good for arena and raids.
I agree that passive bonuses with %15 max protection, %25 offense are pretty nice. But the problem is most top rank arena teams don't rely on debuffs.
Now for non-zeta leadership Thrawn provides "gain %20 turn meter whenever they(empire allies) resist a detrimental effect or suffer a debuff"
Now lets look at top 5 meta teams according to swgoh.gg;
1- Rex · GK · Chirrut · Baze · Darth Nihilus
2- Rex · Chirrut · Baze · Darth Nihilus · R2-D2
3- Wedge · Biggs · Chirrut · Baze · R2-D2
4- QGJ · JKA · GM Yoda · GK · R2-D2
5- Maul · Savage Opress · Emperor · Darth Nihilus · Sith Assassin
Against meta team 1 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Nihilus with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 1 toon.
Against meta team 2 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Nihilus and R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 2 toons
Against meta team 3 thrawn will fracture Baze and there will only be Wedge and R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 2 toons
Against meta team 4 thrawn will fracture GK and there will only be R2-D2 with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 1 toon
Against meta team 5 thrawn will fracture Darth Nihilus if possible and there will be Emperor, Sith Assassin and Maul with detrimental effect/debuff so it will only be beneficial for 3 toon
So on top 5 meta teams gain turn meter will be beneficial for 2/5 toons overall and if you are using 5 empire toons in you arena team. Which mostly runs 3 to 4 empire toons generally.
And if we zeta Thrawn's leadership which grants "Whenever an empire ally gains or loses a status effect, they recover %2 protection". Again we wont get the full benefit because most Thrawn(lead) arena teams runs 3 to 4 empire toons and i have already explained on top ranks how many debuffer teams/toons you will face. so there is only the positive status effect/buff part you might want to get hold on and there are already many theories going on this like using chirrut and putting many hots. Problem is most positive status effect giver empire toons like royal guard, general veers, snowtrooper are not arena top rank toons.
I would prefer Thrawn under Tarkin(Lead)
What doesn't work it's that team, sorry,
I run Tarkin lead, thrawn, kenobi, nihilus, desthtrooper, for me it's so important to have Thrawn zetaed on his unique not for anything this people are saying, you guarantee that thrawn will not be stunned or slowed ( the worse) so he can use his 40% added protection more times, yes its only when fractured, but most slows and stuns on offence come as early as possible, as well as stated, bill up some ofende on his mods and he hits pretty hard every counter with no chance to get debuffed, awesome ^_^
Slow doesn't stack with his 50% down. So, under fracture, it's no big deal. What you should say is stun and daze. Just like I mentioned a few posts above.
The rest is solid and like I already stated, the resist to debuffs and guarantees crit is why the zeta works in arena and the 15% tm reduction is why it works so well in raids.
Simple version of it is: more empire toons equals more time fractured. This zeta makes Thrawn better while fractured.
Not only he did get slowed when he had +50% tenacity, maybe the little I have built in him made it happen, he wouldn't counter 100% making him weaker ^_^
Definitely in raids will be awesome but I can't get to try him because only 6* unlock, will have to be next time ^_^
The slow will still show up as a debuff, but it's overridden by the built-in 50% reduction. And ya, the 50% counter fail rate is awful. So the zeta really shines to always counter and to maximize resists of stun and daze.
You will love his 15% tm reduction in raids. It's a huge deal.
So, should I invest in this zeta or not?
No sir, you need to reread his leader ability, specifically the zeta function. "Status effect" is either a buff or a debuff.