GW oddity -- DEV RESPONSE

Kissycat
410 posts Member
edited July 2017
This morning while running through my GW I ran across something strange, just wanted to see if anyone else found the same. I know that the battle sequence will change depending on what attack or abilities you use, who you target, and even the positions of member in your squad. I use this to gain the most favorable results in each battle. Here's what happened:

On n12, I ran into a squad of Rex lead, gk, nihilus, r2, and thrawn. I had been running resistance from n4 (tm loaded 3 additional teams). I had made a mistake on n11 and forgot to count my cooldowns so my specials were stuck on cd 1.

Resistance trooper opened with basic, dodged. Pilot went second with basic, crit. Poe went third, crit and applied offense down. Thrawn went, fractured whoever was in position 4 on my squad. I retreated 40 times, each time changing my target and shuffling my toons, exactly the same result.
Please understand this isn't a complaint. I still won, though it took 2 teams. Just found it odd in the many months of using these tactics to win, they failed me completely.
Post edited by NotReallyAJedi on

Replies

  • Did you completely change your toons? I mean to a new squad? From what I gather, if you use the same toons - even in different "positions" - and re-try a GW node it will not change the results until you do something different.

  • Kissycat
    410 posts Member
    Did you completely change your toons? I mean to a new squad? From what I gather, if you use the same toons - even in different "positions" - and re-try a GW node it will not change the results until you do something different.

    In the past, shuffling your toons and targets (and abilities) altered the battle sequence. Granted, since getting zfinn two weeks ago I rarely need a second squad. Prior to that, I would frequently use this tactic for better rng.
  • leef
    12585 posts Member
    Changing target doesn't always "refresh" the "rng", maybe even never.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • If you're not seeing a change in the battle seed, it's likely because you're using too many of the same characters (Threadhead2017 knows what's up).

    giphy.gif
    Lead Game Designer (Live), Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes
  • Varlie
    1286 posts Member
    edited July 2017
    I believe the only way to alter the seed number is to change one of the people on the squad or change the leader. Rotating spots within the squad does not change the seed number. At least that is what I have heard and experience seems to support that.

    Edit: Of course I get sniped by the gif-master
    giphy.gif
  • Woodroward
    3411 posts Member
    It's all about making a significant change.

    I have gotten my RNG to change by messing with mods before to make sure K2's Daze landed.

    So there are several things that can be changed to alter the RNG of future turns:
    Members of your team
    positions of your team
    attack order
    which abilities are used.
    equipped mods

    Sometimes who the enemy is attacking is based on the spot they occupy, sometimes it is based on who they are. For example: on Node 9 QGJ may attack my Jawa Engineer because of his low health and will still do it after I move him. But Kylo Ren was attacking him the first order and not the second since it is the position he was attacking and not the character

    Altering mods to change up speed, crit, tenacity, or potency with your mods can be enough to change RNG. Speed could change the turn order. Crit could change the damage dealt. Potency and Tenacity can alter whether or not debuffs will land. Any of these feats should be enough to change RNG.

    If I know attacking Dooku will result in him resisting my K2's Daze, I can either attack someone else, or use his basic attack to daze him on K2's second turn.

    I've even had something as simple as dropping one of Jawa Engineer's thermal detonators on someone different give me different RNG (the detonator never exploded in either situation).

    The point is not just changing up what you do, but doing it enough to alter what occurs as a result of your actions.

    I would say that it sounds more like you are too dead set on using certain abilities as opposed to not changing up your members enough.
  • Generally, the reason that shuffling your squad around or changing your targets works is because you change the sequence of draws from the random number generator so the results apply to different effects. The trick is to understand that the generator is going to give you the same draw sequence no matter what you do, and try to get the bad draws to apply to effects you don't necessarily care about.
    The way to do this is to target an enemy with a different number of unique abilities, or use an attacker with a different set of buff/debuff possibilities or perhaps different crit chance percentage. Anything that changes up the sequence to RNG algorithm. There are many, many ways to affect this because there are a ton of background draws constantly occurring.
    In your example:
    1. RT opened with basic that was dodged. The evasion mechanic used one random draw to check this. You got an unfavorable draw.
    2. RP attacks second with basic and scored a crit. This required 3-4 draws: evasion, deflection(?), crit chance, TM gain chance. All draws were in your favor.
    3. Poe attacks taunting GK, crits & debuffs. 3-4 more draws: evasion, deflection (?), crit chance, debuff chance. All were in your favor.
    I assume you were changing things around in order to try to get a different result from the opening dodge. Since there were no RNG draws prior to this attack, you are pretty much stuck with it. The only way you might be able to fix it is to bring in a character that triggers multiple draws before the match even starts (TFP seems to do this, why I don't know), or maybe bring in another character with more TM than RT so RT goes second and can inflict that Expose of his (Han Solo?), or maybe retreat and put an accuracy arrow on RT to improve your chance of landing that first attack.
    There are RNG draws going on all the time in this game, and the sequence can quickly get very complicated. So we usually simplify it just by saying that moving your characters or changing your targets is the best way to affect your RNG results for the match. Most of the time, that is good enough ... but sometimes you just have to accept that opening dodge.
  • Kissycat
    410 posts Member
    If you're not seeing a change in the battle seed, it's likely because you're using too many of the same characters (Threadhead2017 knows what's up).

    giphy.gif

    Learn something new everyday! Thanks for taking the time to respond! As my specials were on coolddown, I couldn't alter the seed using them. Still love GW, for me it's the best part of the game.
  • Kissycat
    410 posts Member
    Generally, the reason that shuffling your squad around or changing your targets works is because you change the sequence of draws from the random number generator so the results apply to different effects. The trick is to understand that the generator is going to give you the same draw sequence no matter what you do, and try to get the bad draws to apply to effects you don't necessarily care about.
    The way to do this is to target an enemy with a different number of unique abilities, or use an attacker with a different set of buff/debuff possibilities or perhaps different crit chance percentage. Anything that changes up the sequence to RNG algorithm. There are many, many ways to affect this because there are a ton of background draws constantly occurring.
    In your example:
    1. RT opened with basic that was dodged. The evasion mechanic used one random draw to check this. You got an unfavorable draw.
    2. RP attacks second with basic and scored a crit. This required 3-4 draws: evasion, deflection(?), crit chance, TM gain chance. All draws were in your favor.
    3. Poe attacks taunting GK, crits & debuffs. 3-4 more draws: evasion, deflection (?), crit chance, debuff chance. All were in your favor.
    I assume you were changing things around in order to try to get a different result from the opening dodge. Since there were no RNG draws prior to this attack, you are pretty much stuck with it. The only way you might be able to fix it is to bring in a character that triggers multiple draws before the match even starts (TFP seems to do this, why I don't know), or maybe bring in another character with more TM than RT so RT goes second and can inflict that Expose of his (Han Solo?), or maybe retreat and put an accuracy arrow on RT to improve your chance of landing that first attack.
    There are RNG draws going on all the time in this game, and the sequence can quickly get very complicated. So we usually simplify it just by saying that moving your characters or changing your targets is the best way to affect your RNG results for the match. Most of the time, that is good enough ... but sometimes you just have to accept that opening dodge.

    Thanks for the response! What you're saying makes perfect sense and if I had specials off cool down, I know the result would've been different. Though now I do know something new- enemy targeting is based on position, not the toon itself. Regardless of who I put into position 4 (rp, Rey, rt, or Poe) thrawn always fractured position 4.
  • Kissycat wrote: »
    Generally, the reason that shuffling your squad around or changing your targets works is because you change the sequence of draws from the random number generator so the results apply to different effects. The trick is to understand that the generator is going to give you the same draw sequence no matter what you do, and try to get the bad draws to apply to effects you don't necessarily care about.
    The way to do this is to target an enemy with a different number of unique abilities, or use an attacker with a different set of buff/debuff possibilities or perhaps different crit chance percentage. Anything that changes up the sequence to RNG algorithm. There are many, many ways to affect this because there are a ton of background draws constantly occurring.
    In your example:
    1. RT opened with basic that was dodged. The evasion mechanic used one random draw to check this. You got an unfavorable draw.
    2. RP attacks second with basic and scored a crit. This required 3-4 draws: evasion, deflection(?), crit chance, TM gain chance. All draws were in your favor.
    3. Poe attacks taunting GK, crits & debuffs. 3-4 more draws: evasion, deflection (?), crit chance, debuff chance. All were in your favor.
    I assume you were changing things around in order to try to get a different result from the opening dodge. Since there were no RNG draws prior to this attack, you are pretty much stuck with it. The only way you might be able to fix it is to bring in a character that triggers multiple draws before the match even starts (TFP seems to do this, why I don't know), or maybe bring in another character with more TM than RT so RT goes second and can inflict that Expose of his (Han Solo?), or maybe retreat and put an accuracy arrow on RT to improve your chance of landing that first attack.
    There are RNG draws going on all the time in this game, and the sequence can quickly get very complicated. So we usually simplify it just by saying that moving your characters or changing your targets is the best way to affect your RNG results for the match. Most of the time, that is good enough ... but sometimes you just have to accept that opening dodge.

    Thanks for the response! What you're saying makes perfect sense and if I had specials off cool down, I know the result would've been different. Though now I do know something new- enemy targeting is based on position, not the toon itself. Regardless of who I put into position 4 (rp, Rey, rt, or Poe) thrawn always fractured position 4.

    Who did you wind up leaving in pos 4 to take the Fracture?
  • Kissycat
    410 posts Member
    Kissycat wrote: »
    Generally, the reason that shuffling your squad around or changing your targets works is because you change the sequence of draws from the random number generator so the results apply to different effects. The trick is to understand that the generator is going to give you the same draw sequence no matter what you do, and try to get the bad draws to apply to effects you don't necessarily care about.
    The way to do this is to target an enemy with a different number of unique abilities, or use an attacker with a different set of buff/debuff possibilities or perhaps different crit chance percentage. Anything that changes up the sequence to RNG algorithm. There are many, many ways to affect this because there are a ton of background draws constantly occurring.
    In your example:
    1. RT opened with basic that was dodged. The evasion mechanic used one random draw to check this. You got an unfavorable draw.
    2. RP attacks second with basic and scored a crit. This required 3-4 draws: evasion, deflection(?), crit chance, TM gain chance. All draws were in your favor.
    3. Poe attacks taunting GK, crits & debuffs. 3-4 more draws: evasion, deflection (?), crit chance, debuff chance. All were in your favor.
    I assume you were changing things around in order to try to get a different result from the opening dodge. Since there were no RNG draws prior to this attack, you are pretty much stuck with it. The only way you might be able to fix it is to bring in a character that triggers multiple draws before the match even starts (TFP seems to do this, why I don't know), or maybe bring in another character with more TM than RT so RT goes second and can inflict that Expose of his (Han Solo?), or maybe retreat and put an accuracy arrow on RT to improve your chance of landing that first attack.
    There are RNG draws going on all the time in this game, and the sequence can quickly get very complicated. So we usually simplify it just by saying that moving your characters or changing your targets is the best way to affect your RNG results for the match. Most of the time, that is good enough ... but sometimes you just have to accept that opening dodge.

    Thanks for the response! What you're saying makes perfect sense and if I had specials off cool down, I know the result would've been different. Though now I do know something new- enemy targeting is based on position, not the toon itself. Regardless of who I put into position 4 (rp, Rey, rt, or Poe) thrawn always fractured position 4.

    Who did you wind up leaving in pos 4 to take the Fracture?

    In the end, after exhausting my brain (not difficult FYI), I left Rey to take the hit. That way I had a chance to get my expose train rolling.
  • Rlex
    160 posts Member
    I used to go by the same thing. Changing teams etc. Same results... OP teams etc
  • Gozard
    28 posts Member
    Pretty sure this has nothing to do with RNG. Thrawn AI uses fracture on someone who probably had a buff from before, or who he determines is the highest priority target, assuming there's no higher priority to cleanse someone. So it's very likely that he'll always fracture the same toon, unless you ability block him, or increase his cooldowns and such. Unlike basic attacks, certain skills always target toons with highest health, or highest turn meter etc. It's part of what makes the AI competitive. If it was always 100% random, the AI would NEVER win.

    Thoughts?
  • Gozard
    28 posts Member
    Now that I think about it, since fracture is a TMR move, it likely targetted whoever was your highest TM toon at the time, IE the next in line to move.
  • Gozard wrote: »
    Pretty sure this has nothing to do with RNG. Thrawn AI uses fracture on someone who probably had a buff from before, or who he determines is the highest priority target, assuming there's no higher priority to cleanse someone. So it's very likely that he'll always fracture the same toon, unless you ability block him, or increase his cooldowns and such. Unlike basic attacks, certain skills always target toons with highest health, or highest turn meter etc. It's part of what makes the AI competitive. If it was always 100% random, the AI would NEVER win.

    Thoughts?

    Unlikely. He was always targeting the toon in position 4, regardless of who it was. As the seed hadn't changed, the battle sequence stayed exactly the same. From what I saw during that battle, his targeting was based on the original toon there which was rp (lowest health/prot) and continued to target the same position even though a different toon was there after I retreated and swapped toons around. Will test further tomorrow for more accurate results though.
  • Peer
    299 posts Member
    Did you completely change your toons? I mean to a new squad? From what I gather, if you use the same toons - even in different "positions" - and re-try a GW node it will not change the results until you do something different.

    Changing the positions did change the result of a battle for me. To have the Biggs + Wedge + 1 opening not hit too hard I sometimes just change positions and then AI attacks Kylo instead of EP.
  • NicWester
    6579 posts Member
    Tap autobattle for one attack, that'll change the outcome. I've heard two explanations and both of them sound like hooey to me, but they are:
    1) Autobattle has a separate seed.
    2) Tapping autobattle eats a number from the seed (the bad one that caused you to eat it) and moves onto the next one.

    Just don't do it with Resistance Trooper unless you have Basics Only enabled, otherwise the AI will use his special.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Pyrefly
    1254 posts Moderator
    NicWester wrote: »
    Tap autobattle for one attack, that'll change the outcome. I've heard two explanations and both of them sound like hooey to me, but they are:
    1) Autobattle has a separate seed.
    2) Tapping autobattle eats a number from the seed (the bad one that caused you to eat it) and moves onto the next one.

    Just don't do it with Resistance Trooper unless you have Basics Only enabled, otherwise the AI will use his special.
    This is golden. Tested it and it definitely works. This alone makes GW even easier than before.
    swgoh.gg profile: Pyrefly -- Check out my Galactic Power Tables and my TB Phase Info Tables !!
  • Jls73
    30 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    I'm getting tired of the overpowering Savage. There is no reason one too takes out squad after squad. Doesn't matter how many negative stats u put above him as soon as he steps he debuffs everything. My Savage is zetad and no where near this powerful. Complete kitten if you ask me. But u grind and grind and still squads aren't good enough. Not saying make it super easy but no way should one toon take out that many people.
    Post edited by Sunnie1978 on
  • Jls73 wrote: »
    I'm getting tired of the overpowering Savage. There is no reason one too takes out squad after squad. Doesn't matter how many negative stats u put above him as soon as he steps he debuffs everything. My Savage is zetad and no where near this powerful. Complete kitten if you ask me. But u grind and grind and still squads aren't good enough. Not saying make it super easy but no way should one toon take out that many people.

    Stun him, shock him, buff immunity him, heal debuff him, cleanse him, stack exposes on him, assists like crazy on him... Lots of solutions to Oppress in GW.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • zombiwan_kenobi
    427 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    NicWester wrote: »
    Jls73 wrote: »
    I'm getting tired of the overpowering Savage. There is no reason one too takes out squad after squad. Doesn't matter how many negative stats u put above him as soon as he steps he debuffs everything. My Savage is zetad and no where near this powerful. Complete kitten if you ask me. But u grind and grind and still squads aren't good enough. Not saying make it super easy but no way should one toon take out that many people.

    Stun him, shock him, buff immunity him, heal debuff him, cleanse him, stack exposes on him, assists like crazy on him... Lots of solutions to Oppress in GW.

    Debuffs don't work against Savage, only kitten burst and quite funnily, bad RNG and lack of critical. that's among the kittenest thing i've even seen in a game, you need bad RNG to kill a broken toon. Usually i auto-battle when he's the last toon to kill since it's broken AND takes hours.

    Fun indeed !
    Post edited by Ambassador on
  • J3FF
    69 posts Member
    Stun him, shock him, buff immunity him, heal debuff him, cleanse him, stack exposes on him, assists like crazy on him... Lots of solutions to Oppress in GW.


    Boba is king!

  • I don't know how much time they want everybody to spend on this game but the reality of it is already a Time suck and I don't mind playing but the reality for me it's coming down to the point where it's just too much time, it's not worth the investment and this is why their overall number of people joining the game is going down. Also they made it extremely difficult for somebody coming in now to build their characters up cuz they made it so expensive in the matter of points to increase of character from 1 to 85.
  • SephaRune1_
    5 posts Member
    edited October 2017
    The galactic war issue for me is that consistently I am fight gear 12 meta squads and its different every time. The group I mainly see is rebel heavy at the final node with baze chirrut commander luke r2 and nihilus or rex as alts all gear 12 and seven stars. None of my clan mates run into these squads and i have not completed a gw in two months because of this.
  • Fauztin
    1201 posts Moderator
    edited October 2017
    I can usually complete GW without casualties (thanks to analyzing the set-in-stone process of attacks through trial-and-error-retreats) running my Sith team:

    Nihilus lead
    Vader
    Dooku
    Emp Palp
    Maul

    Too lazy to record my mods/gear. Don't have any zetas yet, I realize my difficulty rating won't be as high as others. Whenever I hit a wall in the RNG, sometimes I throw in a sacrificial squad of low level guys to burn enemy Cooldown sand reset RNG for new encounter. Otherwise, I experiment on best opening to kill highest threat levels, like Yoda/Rex/GK so I can make sure my debuffs go through, then see if I can do the rest without any deaths.

    If there's absolutely no avoiding it, I might grit my teeth through not getting my original strategy and use my other teams to burn through one guy at a time, then go back in with my varsity team and experiment all over again. I've never experienced different set-RNG results by repositioning toons. Only:

    - Change of leadership
    - Swapping a character in or out
    - Changing mods
    - Upgrading stats/abilities/gear in any way

    My experience has shown as soon as I enter an encounter, every possibility is already calculated. It's only a matter of exploring those outcomes and finding the golden formula for the order of actions that need to go down. Butterfly effect, yo.

    EDIT: as per savage, I've found dooku under nihilus lead and he will go on FOREVER if they are the last two remaining. Too many multi attacks, can't sustain shock long enough, he heals back up too quickly, and dooku's a beast at countering/self-healing.
    "I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." ~ Hoban Washburne
  • Man, Boba Fett is a very good, generalist, counter to many situations. I don't use him any more, I got plenty of teams to run circles around GW... but if you are short on teams, invest is Boba, he'll see you through a lot of difficulties until your roster fills out.

    My recommendation to CG - starting soon - have a new player only event where people can get a 4* Boba - this way you can cut the complaints on the forum by half. During the event, showcase how he counter various threats.

    #worthit
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • I find the GW a waste never complete it due to the super human teams at the end and I have teams g12 and zetad doesn't matter they get rolled through just as fast. The rewards are free credits no gear which is the biggest thing needed oh and the green rewards for the store that hasn't been updated in months. I find myself playing less and less because no matter what u do you will never be good enough unless u spend spend spend.
  • Same here the last node is extremely tough... And ALL CHARACTERS in the team are all zetad and well modded... And gear 12 too... I'm only at level 80 and have started dreaming about zetad only...I can't beat the last team no matter even if I put all my characters in it
Sign In or Register to comment.