Canon/non canon
Why do people get so invested in whats "official canon" or not? Yeah, the EU has plenty of good stuff (im in the middle of both the thrawn trilogy and kotor 2) but them being "non canon" doesn't diminish their quality. They're still good stories with characters we love.
I dont understand the hate directed at disney for wanting to make room for more stories, more characters, and giving us more material to fawn over.
If you disagree, please explain why
I dont understand the hate directed at disney for wanting to make room for more stories, more characters, and giving us more material to fawn over.
If you disagree, please explain why
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Replies
That Disney decided to excise all that material and put it in the "Legend" category does not diminish the quality of the stories. But to dismiss those stories to make room for their own leaves us feeling confused and unappreciated. And foolish.
It is not far-fetched to say that the EU kept Star Wars alive between 1984 and 1999. Now Disney takes 15 years of character development to tell us they were all myths? Ha-ha, jokes on us for keeping the franchise afloat for all that time, suckers.
It would not have been difficult to integrate TFA into the EU timeline. All the OT heroes would still be old codgers, ready to hand over the reins to a new group of heroes. The First Order could still have risen up from some hidden corner of the galaxy. Grand Admiral Thrawn could still have lead a nearly-successful counter-offensive against the fledgling New Republic. There was room for all of it.
If anything deserves to be sliced out of the official canon, it's those movies we refer to as the Prequel Trilogy. Pitch that junk into the "Legends" category and re-work that whole story, that would be the better way to go. Don't laugh, it might happen since they have set this precedent, and then you will know as well why it's an affront to dismiss the EU as Legend.
Settled.
I suppose now i understand the emotional response, and i agree with some of your points about character development, but i really dont think disney is slighting anyone by making these stories "legends". As i mentioned earlier, it would be one thing if those stories were being completely swept under the rug, but i believe disney is still respecting the material and fans by referencing, borrowing, and including that material in the new shows and movies.
And i agree with your point about throwing away the prequels. Thats something i often discuss with friends. However if we pitched everything thats disliked by many fans, there wouldn't be anything left to call canon.
Well played
Great post Eventine!
I 100% agree that i felt a greater understanding and connection with our heroes and villians. Characters like Corran Horn, Talon Karrde and Mara Jade should have a place in SWGOH. I got completely drawn in to the EU universe, buying every novel i could, the quality of the writing in most of the books was top notch and i loved getting to know the history and backgrounds of a lot of my favourite characters. Han Solo growing up and his history with Boba Fett. How Lando and Han met and evolved as friends. Wedge Antilles journey going from fighter jock in Rogue Squadron to leading both Rogue and Wraith and finally becoming a General. And to know these were authorised by Lucasfilm gave me hope that some of these stories and characters would be either incorporated or elaborated on in future stories (be it film, book or video game).
But to dismiss them and their importance in the SW timeline.............
Disney HAD to non-canonize the EU, not that it was really canon to begin with, because the EU covered ages of time and managing to not contradict it would be nearly impossible. They spent 4 billion so they could tell stories, and turn a profit. This would be vastly more difficult to do if they had to honor every single book/comic that ever came out as gospel, it paints them into a corner and limits what they can do.
EU being non-canon doesn't make any of the actual good stories from that period suddenly bad.
Disney has done fantastic with the license so far, certainly they're more interested in constantly having something SW related releasing in the horizon then Lucas was.
My only slight gripes is how CW was canceled, and them time stamping Asajj Ventress's(Dark Disciples spoilers)....
It's literally one throw away line in the book, that added nothing, and means she can't really be in anything else.
EU being non-canon doesn't make any of the actual good stories from that period suddenly bad.
No your right, it doesnt make the the good stories bad, but when you have followed the timeline and the stories for a long period of time, to then find that they arent relevant with the canon saga, for me personally its a big problem. This is my opinion and apart from the films i wont be bothering with novels, spin off etc
I just can't see the Empire, after suffering only two major defeats by the rebellion, surrendering the rest of their entire fleet, army and all of their planetary control over to the New Republic. Many Governors, Moff's and Admirals would not surrender either by fear of a war crime conviction or from unwillingness to give up their power.
Especially, considering how easy it would be for a couple of star destroyers to control a planet, an admiral could easily take multiple planets under their personal control and the new republic would be powerless to stop them.
The new-canon Aftermath series goes into exactly this topic. I'm not gonna spoil anything here, as it's an excellent read, but suffice to say the end of the Empire wasn't as nearly as quick and painless as you're presenting it as.
[Edit] Also "...after suffering only two major defeats by the rebellion..." is a bit disingenuous. As 'Thrawn' goes into a bit, the Empire has stretched themselves super thin with the first Death Star, not to mention the second. Even more importantly the loss of the brains and unquestioned leader, as well as the chief enforcer was the biggest blow to an Empire already reeling.
New Battlefront 2 campeign is considered canon and covers this exact timeframe/subject, so I'm super excited to see how it plays out.
Well, the picture that got painted from tfa was, the empire is now gone and the remnants that didn't surrender fled to the outskirts of the galaxy in an unknown region of space to form the First Order. The new republic learned of this but is too weak to go into open conflict with them so instead they secretly supply the resistance to combat the threat. Tfa doesn't mention a timeframe to relate the fall of the empire to nor do they mention how difficult it was to dislodge the remaining empire, so without reading any outside material you'd be completely lost on everything that happened in between Ep 6 and 7 which honestly kinda frustrates me.
I don't have a lot of free time so I don't really have time to read all of the books and it makes me sad and frustrated that I have to buy the books just to have a clue of what's going on.
This I completely agree with you on, but to a lesser extent in this case. I don't mind secondary sources(everything other then movies) filling gaps of time, but it shouldn't be necessary to clean up a poor written story. To me, the prequels were basically unwatchable without also seeing the Clone Wars series to flesh out that mess. I think Force Awakens did a much better job, however I can understand the frustration.
Here you go, this is maybe what you're looking for.... https://www.thoughtco.com/what-happens-between-prequel-and-original-3125882 No idea why it's named like that, it covers the 30 years between RotJ & FA.
*Note: I am not/have not read this link, as I still have half the 3rd book to finish, and it implies game spoilers as well; but if you don't have the time to read a bunch of books it's likely better then nothing.
So the EU had a mixed bag of stories in my opinion.
Some stories were simply outrageous and ridiculous such as:
* Yuuzhan Vong
* Palpatine Clones
* Luke Skywalker actually falls in love with a sentient space ship in Children of the Jedi
I could go on and on with silly green space rabbits and a Jedi known as Master Baytes, but I'll stop.
With such nonsense I am not surprised Disney made the EU nothing more than Legend unofficial stories.
However, there were memorable stories that were simply fantastic and outshine anything that George could create with the PT, we got stories and wonderful characters from:
* Shadows of the Empire
* Knights of the Old Republic
* Thrawn Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command)
* Dark Forces and Jedi Knight series
* Bounty Hunter
* Force Unleashed (1st only not the second)
What did Lucas provide in the PT, oh yes...Jar Jar and child Ani and dialogue such as how much he hates sand and everything is Wizard. C'mon - seriously?
Personally I like to think the following as cannon, despite what anyone says:
* Shadows of the Empire
* Star Wars Bounty Hunter
* Knights of the Old Republic
* Force Unleashed
Because these were some of the very best stories and introduced some very cool characters to the star wars universe and never once broke any timeline or lore of the world. They were also just really cool stories.
So all in all - the EU was a mixed bag in my opinion, and the right EU is still very enjoyable.
Absolutely true - I was happy to see Thrawn in Rebels, just as I am happy to see Darth Nihilus in this game.
But you can't please everyone all the time, so, sometimes some garbage has to stay - like prophecies, midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks.
FYI TFA is the epitome of a cash grab.
Everything since (and including) ROTJ has been nothing more than an excuse to sell toys. At least TFA put some effort into likable characters and making star wars fun again.
The majority of the Star Wars stuff out there put effort into likeable characters and making it fun. Not all but a majority of it. IMO there's not a whole lot of likeable new characters in TFA. Rey was the best, Maz was cool. BB-8, Finn & Poe were OK. The rest were not likeable. Phasma could have been likeable but they made her a joke. In the OT and even the prequels there were a TON of likeable characters and the clone wars tv show extended and expanded on that.
Seriously? If you think The Clone Wars TV show is necessary to understand the plot of the prequels then I think you need to watch the prequels of few more times. I love The Clone Wars from the movie to the lost episodes, but to say you need to watch them to understand the prequels is false.
I understand but the fact of the matter is that Star Wars is bigger than the movies wether we like it or not. There are plenty of ways and resources to help you get caught up so get over it.
It's OK for everyone to have an opinion about what they like or dislike about the prequels. However wanting to throw them out of official canon doesn't make you a star wars fan it makes you selfish.
Does that mean Disney is selfish?
No Disney is a company
And companies can't be selfish?
No, people in companies can, but companies don't have emotions or thoughts