Character Strategy: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Old Ben)

Replies

  • Whazn
    262 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Finity wrote: »
    Whazn wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    I get that but look at b2
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/b2-super-battle-droid/
    His order says-
    Dispel
    Apply ability block
    Damage

    But Sith get stealth from zaul when b2 crits.

    Inconsistent no?


    Are you sure the Sith have stealth and not Advantage? It is likely they have Advantage as a result of this, not stealth due to the lead mechanics on the expiration of stealth. Especially since the B2 ability itself says Buff Immunity is "applied before damage". Buff Immunity is only a 65% chance as well, not 100% like Thrawn, so you might want to make sure they have buff immunity as well, otherwise they will regain stealth on crit damage at the end


    Positive. They go into stealth. Quite annoying.

    I know it's not affiliated but it makes sense because when used on zqgj they dont dodge from what I've seen. Foresight dispelled, immunity applied. But I've fractured zavage under zaul and he does not gain gain stealth.
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.

    Oh great, so only need two dispellers. Guess I'll just run... (who has two dispellers? Oh right!) Rebels.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • scuba
    12683 posts Member
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    Its still an assumption that the taunt would reapply before fracture and not after.
    That's the way the ability is described, and that's what the gif shows, so... not too much of an assumption, I'd say.

    Yeah seeing the orginal gif and then checking his mechanics was what my assumption was based on.
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    Thanks for clearing this up. Sorry for any de-railing I made to this thread of what looks to me like a great rework.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.

    Oh great, so only need two dispellers. Guess I'll just run... (who has two dispellers? Oh right!) Rebels.

    You're telling me that people who run Thrawn aren't also running DN?
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Shoot, you could dispel first with DN then use Thrawn. Or use TFP to apply buff immunity and then use Thrawn. All sort of options with the right imagination.
  • Whazn
    262 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.

    Oh great, so only need two dispellers. Guess I'll just run... (who has two dispellers? Oh right!) Rebels.



    Or the standard rex gk chaze dn triple cleanse...
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???
  • scuba
    12683 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.

    Agree and slow old ben would have to be taunting before fractured anyway
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    You're telling me that people who run Thrawn aren't also running DN?

    Why would anyone run thrawn in arena vs Ben? The thing that makes him good is Fracture. Now he essentially doesnt have Fracture vs Ben. He just has a dispell, and thus there are many other better dispellers.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Whazn wrote: »
    Or the standard rex gk chaze dn triple cleanse...
    Rex L seriously? Youve seen this new character coming named Commander Luke?
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    You're telling me that people who run Thrawn aren't also running DN?

    Why would anyone run thrawn in arena vs Ben? The thing that makes him good is Fracture. Now he essentially doesnt have Fracture vs Ben. He just has a dispell, and thus there are many other better dispellers.

    Cuz
    scuba wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.

    Agree and slow old ben would have to be taunting before fractured anyway

    Which is a hell of a point. And really, his only use is fracture? What about TM switch? Than can be pretty key too.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Whazn wrote: »
    Or the standard rex gk chaze dn triple cleanse...
    Rex L seriously? Youve seen this new character coming named Commander Luke?

    I think they mixed our discussion on dispel with cleanse.
  • Did you guys not see my post earlier? You are missing what CG is telling you!!

    If you are not playing Rebels, you are playing wrong. If you do not have CLS in one of a million possible Rebel squads, you are playing wrong. You will lose.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Old Ben spent more time with rebels than Jedi. And this is the kind of rework we've always wanted. Iconic characters should be more powerful than support cast or generic and they are finally doing it. And in the case of Luke, he was the "first" character to have 6 abilities and 3 zetas. He won't be the last.

    How did Old Ben spend more time with rebels than Jedi when he was a Jedi since before the rebellion even existed?

    Plus his entire exile on Tatooine was to watch over Luke, and he obviously had plans to train Luke since before he even saw the R2 message, and even while trying to get to Alderaan with R2 he was training Luke in the Jedi ways, and planned to train him further when they got to Alderaan.

    He was like 99% Jedi, 1% rebel...but hey, this is galaxy of rebels, let's just give him more synergy with rebels because why not.
  • I'm really gonna have to see this in action, especially the buffs gained on death. All the buffs are great, but I feel like If You Strike Me Down is more of a nerf since we lose Crit Chance, Crit Damage, Defense, Defense Penetration, and Evasion Up for 2 turns. We keep the Offense and Speed Up for 2 turns, gain 50% Health (was 15%), 50% Protection, and Ben gets 5% TM every time a Jedi or Rebel ally is attacked. Considering Rebels rely a lot on Crits and he gained the Rebel tag for synergy, it seems weird to lose those previous buffs.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Did you guys not see my post earlier? You are missing what CG is telling you!!

    If you are not playing Rebels, you are playing wrong. If you do not have CLS in one of a million possible Rebel squads, you are playing wrong. You will lose.

    We saw it, I don't agree. Honestly, looks to me like they set up ewoks to demolish this kind of rebel based team (without deep thought into it, daze, multiple dispels, insane tm gain). But really, that very fast Thrawn will neutralize OB so quick he will hardly blink.
  • scuba
    12683 posts Member
    Did you guys not see my post earlier? You are missing what CG is telling you!!

    If you are not playing Rebels, you are playing wrong. If you do not have CLS in one of a million possible Rebel squads, you are playing wrong. You will lose.

    I read it and it is a hellof a point
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Old Ben spent more time with rebels than Jedi. And this is the kind of rework we've always wanted. Iconic characters should be more powerful than support cast or generic and they are finally doing it. And in the case of Luke, he was the "first" character to have 6 abilities and 3 zetas. He won't be the last.

    How did Old Ben spend more time with rebels than Jedi when he was a Jedi since before the rebellion even existed?

    Plus his entire exile on Tatooine was to watch over Luke, and he obviously had plans to train Luke since before he even saw the R2 message, and even while trying to get to Alderaan with R2 he was training Luke in the Jedi ways, and planned to train him further when they got to Alderaan.

    He was like 99% Jedi, 1% rebel...but hey, this is galaxy of rebels, let's just give him more synergy with rebels because why not.

    He spent 20 years of his life as a rebel. He probably spent 20 years as a Jedi before that...
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    Did you guys not see my post earlier? You are missing what CG is telling you!!

    If you are not playing Rebels, you are playing wrong. If you do not have CLS in one of a million possible Rebel squads, you are playing wrong. You will lose.

    We saw it, I don't agree. Honestly, looks to me like they set up ewoks to demolish this kind of rebel based team (without deep thought into it, daze, multiple dispels, insane tm gain). But really, that very fast Thrawn will neutralize OB so quick he will hardly blink.

    if he fracture the obi, r2 will be free to hide all but obi. tbh, i dont see a real escape from the fact that obi wan will probably die first/second, and that also after he takes tons of damage because hes tanky, with lot of defense, and gain also 50% def bonus. CLS, R2D2, Obi looks like a great base for a team.
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    Did you guys not see my post earlier? You are missing what CG is telling you!!

    If you are not playing Rebels, you are playing wrong. If you do not have CLS in one of a million possible Rebel squads, you are playing wrong. You will lose.

    We saw it, I don't agree. Honestly, looks to me like they set up ewoks to demolish this kind of rebel based team (without deep thought into it, daze, multiple dispels, insane tm gain). But really, that very fast Thrawn will neutralize OB so quick he will hardly blink.

    Thrawn can't fracture when he's stunned.

    Raid Han
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    Honestly, looks to me like they set up ewoks to demolish this kind of rebel based team (without deep thought into it, daze, multiple dispels, insane tm gain).

    No.
    Ender22 wrote: »
    But really, that very fast Thrawn will neutralize OB so quick he will hardly blink.

    Oh great. Then you only have to worry about Chaze, or whatever godmode they endow STH with. Thrawn meanwhile gets to rely on non-meta Empire, or a frankenstein team, now with Rex L defanged by CLS.

    Don't worry. If you dont see it now as I explain it, you will see it in Sept. That's a promise.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Honestly, looks to me like they set up ewoks to demolish this kind of rebel based team (without deep thought into it, daze, multiple dispels, insane tm gain).

    No.
    Ender22 wrote: »
    But really, that very fast Thrawn will neutralize OB so quick he will hardly blink.

    Oh great. Then you only have to worry about Chaze, or whatever godmode they endow STH with. Thrawn meanwhile gets to rely on non-meta Empire, or a frankenstein team, now with Rex L defanged by CLS.

    Don't worry. If you dont see it now as I explain it, you will see it in Sept. That's a promise.

    I foresee great things and plan on pursuing this new squad myself, but I wouldn't count out Thrawn just yet.

    I do think the ewoks will do terribly against anything but this team. I've seen that video. But, really, withotnserious though, so probably no.
  • Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?

    2. IYSMD and Devoted Protector.
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?

    2. IYSMD and Devoted Protector.

    So speculation? Or...

    I don't see any mention of a second zeta on devoted protector... Unless that's to be assumed by "fully upgraded"

    I'm curious...
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    I wouldn't count out Thrawn just yet.

    Look, Thrawn might actually be good. Maybe not everyone will run Ben, or maybe Ben countering Thrawn isnt as clean as it looked in the video. The problem is that there are about 5,000 rebels in the game, and they will never ever stop coming, and most will be new-meta quality. Empire is done; they got a month for reworks and new toons, those all mostly ****, and now theyre done. DONE. I doubt we see a new Empire character till the young han solo movie comes out in 2020 or whenever the hell it comes out. And even then it will be 10:1 ~ rebel:empire.

    CG has been trying to make it obvious for a year, and we've been sticking our heads in the sand.
    "Everyone: play Rebels."
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    I wouldn't count out Thrawn just yet.

    Look, Thrawn might actually be good. Maybe not everyone will run Ben, or maybe Ben countering Thrawn isnt as clean as it looked in the video. The problem is that there are about 5,000 rebels in the game, and they will never ever stop coming, and most will be new-meta quality. Empire is done; they got a month for reworks and new toons, those all mostly ****, and now theyre done. DONE. I doubt we see a new Empire character till the young han solo movie comes out in 2020 or whenever the hell it comes out. And even then it will be 10:1 ~ rebel:empire.

    CG has been trying to make it obvious for a year, and we've been sticking our heads in the sand.
    "Everyone: play Rebels."

    Ah. I see your point. I wasn't trying to argue for the rebel meta. They do seem to be the best most often.
  • Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?

    2. IYSMD and Devoted Protector.

    So speculation? Or...

    I don't see any mention of a second zeta on devoted protector... Unless that's to be assumed by "fully upgraded"

    I'm curious...

    You can't speculate what a dev just confirmed that you quoted.
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?

    2. IYSMD and Devoted Protector.

    So speculation? Or...

    I don't see any mention of a second zeta on devoted protector... Unless that's to be assumed by "fully upgraded"

    I'm curious...

    You can't speculate what a dev just confirmed that you quoted.

    Could have been misspoken....
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    @CG_Kozispoon

    So wait a second now...

    You say "zeta taunt"... but in the ability description it doesn't make any mention of this being a zeta ability...

    Does Old Ben have two zeta abilities???

    Sooo... Does Old Ben have 1 zeta or two?

    2. IYSMD and Devoted Protector.

    So speculation? Or...

    I don't see any mention of a second zeta on devoted protector... Unless that's to be assumed by "fully upgraded"

    I'm curious...

    You can't speculate what a dev just confirmed that you quoted.

    Could have been misspoken....

    Or was that all part of the plan?

    ...along with the "accidental" Thrawn gif that shows taunt while fractured?

    Along with...

    Wait that's all I've got... for now!

    f9W3011.jpg

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