Vader feels left behind?

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Commander Luke being released has got me thinking. And forgive me for my ignorance, I don't have Vader at max gear/modded/zetad. But I feel like with all these new overpowered characters like Luke, Thawn, and R2 being released and old characters getting crazy reworks is leaving my favorite sith behind.

He is the catalyst for the entire Star Wars story for crying out loud! I just feel like the work it takes to get him combined with his legendary status warrants him to be extremely powerful. Why would this new Luke (not even RotJ) be better? Can anyone silence this Vader fanboy's doubt or do you agree with me?

Tl;dr: I feel Vader is slipping from the top. Is can he keep up with all the new character changes or not?

Replies

  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Vader is still a great character but CLS and the reworks certainly take a shot at the Empire side of things.

    Can't have the same character at the top all the time though otherwise everyone would end up with the same team. Things will come full circle again at some point for Vader in the form of an upgrade to 6 abilitues to match Luke or a brand new version.
  • Wrathe
    194 posts Member
    When was Vader at the top though? I mean, he's pretty disappointing. Pretty much like any other character that relies on landing debuffs right now.
  • Vader had his 15 minutes of fame when his Zeta made the pit laughable. I do agree however that the most feared character in the star wars universe could be more fearsome and come equipped with a bad*** kit, I just don't foresee that happening anytime soon.
  • Wrathe
    194 posts Member
    K_mett1 wrote: »
    Vader had his 15 minutes of fame when his Zeta made the pit laughable. I do agree however that the most feared character in the star wars universe could be more fearsome and come equipped with a bad*** kit, I just don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

    Now if he were a Rebel.... :P
  • TyloRen
    381 posts Moderator
    edited August 2017
    The Vader teams on my shard are the hardest ones I face
    Also, going to move this over to Squad and Character section
    Post edited by TyloRen on
  • Vader is huge in so many areas of the game. He's a staple in raid teams. While he doesn't currently compete with top 100 in arena, you can still stay competitive in the top 500 with zader.
  • I still stay 50-100 in a Jan 16 shard. That being said, he is extremely underpowered and it is shameful. He at the very least needs a non leader zeta. Cls has 3 and vader has 1, palp has 0. It's no doubt unbalanced at this point.
  • Wrathe
    194 posts Member
    Vader is huge in so many areas of the game. He's a staple in raid teams. While he doesn't currently compete with top 100 in arena, you can still stay competitive in the top 500 with zader.

    I don't mean to be snide, I've been playing since late '15, so this may be my oldtimer showing, but, is staying top 500 in Arena tough for most people who are "trying"? Trying as in spending your free gathered energies each day, etc, 100% F2P is totally fine.

    What areas is he big in though? He doesn't really do much anymore. The Pit was his shining spot and with that gone and Tenacity Up dominating Arenas, he's worthless.

    Now, if all the newfound CLS players coming out tomorrow slowly punish Tenacity Up, you might see him open back up some, but it's just so effortless to counter, I doubt it.
  • Zader
    Zylo
    Zavage
    Shore
    Nihilus
  • Zader
    Zylo
    Zavage
    Shore
    Nihilus

    But can't beat wiggs, chaze, and r2....

    LOL DEVS
  • AgentSmith
    26 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    The most I ever spend on this game is never more than 10 dollars at a time. I just play for fun to use my favorite characters. I'm not super competitive, but it's just not as fun when your favorite all time character is underpowered.

    Hopefully he will get an update
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    #MakeVaderGreatAgain
  • Amen! I'm on a younger shard(Jan 17) and my Vader keeps kenobi useless(no group hug), and with SA, I laugh at Rex. Chaze? Vader is too tanky for them. Luke causing an aoe retribution, is another matter. I've run Vader in arena since I unlocked him.

    It will be sad if I have to change to stay competitive. Give him some love!
  • Wrathe wrote: »
    K_mett1 wrote: »
    Vader had his 15 minutes of fame when his Zeta made the pit laughable. I do agree however that the most feared character in the star wars universe could be more fearsome and come equipped with a bad*** kit, I just don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

    Now if he were a Rebel.... :P

    He did kill the Emporer, just saying
    "ARE WE BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON."
  • It sad when the most feared Sith is Nihilus. Everyone laughs and points at Vader.

    :(
  • JaChuda wrote: »
    It sad when the most feared Sith is Nihilus. Everyone laughs and points at Vader.

    :(

    Nihilus was far more terrifying than Vader, so if you account for how terrifying Vader was, multiply it by 3, that's Nihilus.
  • JaChuda wrote: »
    It sad when the most feared Sith is Nihilus. Everyone laughs and points at Vader.

    :(

    Nihilus was far more terrifying than Vader, so if you account for how terrifying Vader was, multiply it by 3, that's Nihilus.

    +1
  • WattoisSnoke
    244 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    I half joked about this on another page but if you wanted him beefed up to remain relevant and be a counter to Luke, his kit could look something like this. Isn't stupidly overpowered because most new characters are overpowered in their own right and this is a mirror to CLS. Just a bit of fun. The idea is he gets stronger the longer he fights and is very anti rebel/Jedi like in the story.


    Darth Vader

    Terrifying Swing (Basic) Omega'd

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy, inflict Ability Block for 1 Turn and 50% chance to dispel all buffs. Jedi and Rebel targets cannot Evade or Resist the effects of this attack. If resisted, deal double damage.

    Force Crush (Special) Omega'd
    '4 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to all enemies and inflict Speed Down, Health Down and 3 Damage Over Time effects for 2 rounds. For each enemy that resists, deal +20% damage and recover 10% health.

    Culling Blade (Special) Omega'd
    '3 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy and dispels all negative status effects on them. This attack deals 50% more damage for each effect dispelled, grants 100% Turn Meter and recovers 100% protection on a finishing blow. This attack can't be evaded.

    Inspiring Through Fear (Leader) Zeta'd

    Empire and Sith allies gain 30% Offense, +30% Critical Damage, +15% Critical Chance and have a 50% chance to remove 25% Turn Meter on hit. This Turn Meter removal can't be Resisted. While Darth Vader is alive, enemies immediately regain Damage Over Time for 2 turns whenever Damage Over Time expires on them.

    Overwhelming Force (Unique) Zeta'd

    Darth Vader has 100% turn meter at the start of battle and gains +10% offence after each of his turns, stacking up to +100%. Additionally, he gains +20% defence any time he is attacked, stacking up to +200% and gains +5 speed for each Empire or Sith ally and +3 speed for each debuffed enemy.

    Empires Enforcer (Unique) Zeta'd

    Rebel and Jedi enemies deal -30% damage to Darth Vader and grant him 10% Turn Meter whenever they attack him. If an enemy lands a Critical Hit on Darth Vader, he gains Offence Up, Defence Up, Speed Up and Critical Chance Up for 1 turn.
  • I half joked about this on another page but if you wanted him beefed up to remain relevant and be a counter to Luke, his kit could look something like this. Isn't **** overpowered because most new characters are overpowered in their own right and this is a mirror to CLS. Just a bit of fun. The idea is he gets stronger the longer he fights and is very anti rebel/Jedi like in the story.


    Darth Vader

    Terrifying Swing (Basic) Omega'd

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy, inflict Ability Block for 1 Turn and 50% chance to dispel all buffs. Jedi and Rebel targets cannot Evade or Resist the effects of this attack. If resisted, deal double damage.

    Force Crush (Special) Omega'd
    '4 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to all enemies and inflict Speed Down, Health Down and 3 Damage Over Time effects for 2 rounds. For each enemy that resists, deal +20% damage and recover 10% health.

    Culling Blade (Special) Omega'd
    '3 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy and dispels all negative status effects on them. This attack deals 50% more damage for each effect dispelled, grants 100% Turn Meter and recovers 100% protection on a finishing blow. This attack can't be evaded.

    Inspiring Through Fear (Leader) Zeta'd

    Empire and Sith allies gain 30% Offense, +30% Critical Damage, +15% Critical Chance and have a 50% chance to remove 25% Turn Meter on hit. This Turn Meter removal can't be Resisted. While Darth Vader is alive, enemies immediately regain Damage Over Time for 2 turns whenever Damage Over Time expires on them.

    Overwhelming Force (Unique) Zeta'd

    Darth Vader has 100% turn meter at the start of battle and gains +10% offence after each of his turns, stacking up to +100%. Additionally, he gains +20% defence any time he is attacked, stacking up to +200% and gains +5 speed for each Empire or Sith ally and +3 speed for each debuffed enemy.

    Empires Enforcer (Unique) Zeta'd

    Rebel and Jedi enemies deal -30% damage to Darth Vader and grant him 10% Turn Meter whenever they attack him. If an enemy lands a Critical Hit on Darth Vader, he gains Offence Up, Defence Up, Speed Up and Critical Chance Up for 1 turn.

    This sounds really overpowered and awesome!
  • This sounds really overpowered and awesome![/quote]

    Not so much overpowered as much as rightfully up to par with new characters lol
  • I half joked about this on another page but if you wanted him beefed up to remain relevant and be a counter to Luke, his kit could look something like this. Isn't **** overpowered because most new characters are overpowered in their own right and this is a mirror to CLS. Just a bit of fun. The idea is he gets stronger the longer he fights and is very anti rebel/Jedi like in the story.


    Darth Vader

    Terrifying Swing (Basic) Omega'd

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy, inflict Ability Block for 1 Turn and 50% chance to dispel all buffs. Jedi and Rebel targets cannot Evade or Resist the effects of this attack. If resisted, deal double damage.

    Force Crush (Special) Omega'd
    '4 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to all enemies and inflict Speed Down, Health Down and 3 Damage Over Time effects for 2 rounds. For each enemy that resists, deal +20% damage and recover 10% health.

    Culling Blade (Special) Omega'd
    '3 Turn Cooldown'

    Deal Physical damage to target enemy and dispels all negative status effects on them. This attack deals 50% more damage for each effect dispelled, grants 100% Turn Meter and recovers 100% protection on a finishing blow. This attack can't be evaded.

    Inspiring Through Fear (Leader) Zeta'd

    Empire and Sith allies gain 30% Offense, +30% Critical Damage, +15% Critical Chance and have a 50% chance to remove 25% Turn Meter on hit. This Turn Meter removal can't be Resisted. While Darth Vader is alive, enemies immediately regain Damage Over Time for 2 turns whenever Damage Over Time expires on them.

    Overwhelming Force (Unique) Zeta'd

    Darth Vader has 100% turn meter at the start of battle and gains +10% offence after each of his turns, stacking up to +100%. Additionally, he gains +20% defence any time he is attacked, stacking up to +200% and gains +5 speed for each Empire or Sith ally and +3 speed for each debuffed enemy.

    Empires Enforcer (Unique) Zeta'd

    Rebel and Jedi enemies deal -30% damage to Darth Vader and grant him 10% Turn Meter whenever they attack him. If an enemy lands a Critical Hit on Darth Vader, he gains Offence Up, Defence Up, Speed Up and Critical Chance Up for 1 turn.

    Yes please, finally real strong Darth Vader.
  • I really like that Vader. That being said wish the removal of buffs came on the AoE rather than his basic, which I feel should have a different advantage, as a lot of teams are gonna gain turn meter for resisting (any thrawn team or CLS)
  • Riffinator wrote: »
    Wrathe wrote: »
    K_mett1 wrote: »
    Vader had his 15 minutes of fame when his Zeta made the pit laughable. I do agree however that the most feared character in the star wars universe could be more fearsome and come equipped with a bad*** kit, I just don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

    Now if he were a Rebel.... :P

    He did kill the Emporer, just saying

    Yes, make him Empire, Rebel and Droid... xD
    My collection https://swgoh.gg/u/Hskull55/
    Sorry for my English :]
  • WattoisSnoke
    244 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    I really like that Vader. That being said wish the removal of buffs came on the AoE rather than his basic, which I feel should have a different advantage, as a lot of teams are gonna gain turn meter for resisting (any thrawn team or CLS)

    It would probably be a bit much but remember, this build would always go first unless facing raid Han so would apply all the debuffs straight away and not get Resisted. Perhaps the multi dispel could come from a Palpatine rework ;)

    Also remember that with his lead, he will remove 25% turn meter half the time, making the TM gain moot.

    However, I could always add that if an enemy resists, remove an additional 10% TM or something like that.

    For Palpatines multi stun attack, I would have any enemy that resists the stun has all buffs in them replaced with their negative counterpart... a more powerful dispel really.
  • Rakim
    267 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    I really like that Vader. That being said wish the removal of buffs came on the AoE rather than his basic, which I feel should have a different advantage, as a lot of teams are gonna gain turn meter for resisting (any thrawn team or CLS)

    It would probably be a bit much but remember, this build would always go first unless facing raid Han so would apply all the debuffs straight away and not get Resisted. Perhaps the multi dispel could come from a Palpatine rework ;)

    Also remember that with his lead, he will remove 25% turn meter half the time, making the TM gain moot.

    However, I could always add that if an enemy resists, remove an additional 10% TM or something like that.

    Oh no the tm gain isn't moot at all. Thrawn led teams run circles against Zader squads. You never use Vader's AoE against them if you want to win.
  • Hey, there always needs to be a counter to someone :)
  • DarthMufasa4
    214 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    You put a thrawn team in. Vader inflicts 4 debuffs, whether they resist or not thats 80% turn meter gain for the opponent and youve just given the them victory (pretty much), as is, its pretty much an automatic loss on defence.

    compare that to am average loss of 12.5% thats not very much and the damage probably isnt worth that drastic increase in turnmeter. Commander Luke isnt so bad with the current Vader build you have, but counter chance then takes over. which might be helpful because of the stacking to offence, but vader might just be overwhelmed.

    There are 3 potential ways an edit could fix this:
    a) You have it such that turnmeter cant be added based on this attack
    b) You add another ability skill (not a unique), which gives vader more versatility all round and gives him options when he cant use his AoE (and obviously culling blade is situational only)
    c) It makes their turns meaningless, ie a stun , ability block

    But as people start to develop thrawn, Vader I feel will see less use, because he just cant do anything, except his basic which as everyone knows hits like wet noodle
  • A counter yes, but its not nice to have an auto-loss that your character caused, almost being worst than not having him in the team in the first place.

    Vaders AoE is gonna need something to counteract the turn meter as his debuffs have turned from being a good to being a bad thing.
    a) Make the debuffs more potent (like stun or ability block)
    b)add another move that allows vaders move slot so that he can do something when either tenacity up is on board or if a character like admiral thrawn is on board and he isnt restricted to just his basic
    c) not allow turn meter to be added during AoE
  • xReDeMpx
    1690 posts Member
    Vader has always been underwhelming in this game except at two points, one is when Vader was first released and he was rare to see and the other is when he got his zeta and he had like 3 weeks to shine.

    Otherwise his kit is outdated and Vader can only function as a relevant leader when in reality he should be a great lead and stand alone toon.

    His kit is so out dated and it doesn't even have force choke his iconic move.

    Vader without force choke is like ryu without hadoken, it shouldn't be a thing
  • Rakim
    267 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Vader deserves AT LEAST one other unique. At the very least. Luke has 6 and Vader is the most iconic character in the series and one of the most iconic characters ever so I could see the argument with giving Vader 6 too. But it makes no sense why a character of his reputation A) only has 4 abilities when less iconic characters have 5, and B ) he's so underpowered (in relation to his reputation).
    "Oh but he can solo rancor" is such a pathetic argument against improving Vader because at this point, who cares? Rancor is what, 2 years old now? There are multiple teams who can. He's decent in P2 of HAAT but there are multiple better options than him.
    He should have an updated kit where he can be that fearsome leader and stand alone character. He's Darth freaking Vader, he deserves more than what he's gotten in this game.
    *steps off soap box*
    Post edited by Rakim on
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