If your guild is already working well together and people only get rewards for participating, then there shouldn't be in issue. Equal rewards are better than the random placement when half your guild solos the Rancor and your top run doesn't even get you in the top 10 rewards.
I agree. My guild has structured the raids in such a way that everyone gets equal rotating chances at good rewards and is right now making sure those who do not have Han at 7* is able to
The only people I think are sore about 'equal rewards' are people who have been skating on the hard work of the rest of their guild. Basically those with shallow rosters, who only focus on x5 toons for arena, and can't post at least 2% damage in each phase of HAAT.
Because guilds may want to bring in people who are equally invested in the game via time and/or money. So they all equally can reap the rewards, and not feel like they are 'carrying' and 'suffering less rewards' due to the high school freshman, trying to run with the college seniors.
But this won't be the case for most guilds, most currently strong guilds that is. Since they most likely already had a steep minimum requirements for someone to join their ranks. Also guilds of friends won't be booting their own friends. So if you're not committed to a guild by friends or the same steep requirements, then yeah you might get the boot from your rag-tag guild.
I'm in a guild with my real life friends and some new folks brought in by those friends. We have failed HAAT twice, barely getting halfway into phase 2 this last time. I've got 0 Kenobi shards and, as a result, have slid from top 50 to struggling to hang onto top 200.
If I left my friends to get Kenobi with strangers I would delete the game off my phone and walk into the ocean. People are more important than progress.
I am guessing the whaliest guilds will be able to finish most of the TB and in a month begging for more content (ok with that too I would love not to have to wait for 10-11 months for new real content).
The medium guilds will be fine. Slower but will catch up.
Smaller guilds will totally die unless casual (also healthy)
A lot of the guild disparity is the poor design of guilds themselves. It's way too difficult to find and communicate in game.
I do not mean to start a fight against an obvious whale, but just because you have been spending much more than everybody else does not mean you have to get better rewards.
From your post, it seems because you put a lot of money, it should keep you competitive regardless which guild you are in.
From what I understand with TB, it is a guild cooperation event (not "the biggest hitter will get 1st" like HAAT for example).
Stronger players will "help" weaker players to get better rewards, so everyone may be able to level up/gear up altogether. So yeah, maybe those weaker players will pull down the strongest, but as other people said, unhappy people will leave their guild to a "strong players only guild" maybe.
As a f2p, I think this is a great system, but for an heavy spender, yes it will surely hurt to see free players kitten in arena because they got better rewards than you do, thanks to being a member of a nice cooperative guild.
PS: if you have been spending so much, you surely are already ready for gear XII. Do not fear, your favorite way of getting gear (real money for crystals) would surely get you a lot of those gear pieces in shipments eventually.
I'm in a guild with my real life friends and some new folks brought in by those friends. We have failed HAAT twice, barely getting halfway into phase 2 this last time. I've got 0 Kenobi shards and, as a result, have slid from top 50 to struggling to hang onto top 200.
If I left my friends to get Kenobi with strangers I would delete the game off my phone and walk into the ocean. People are more important than progress.
The vast majority don't have their IRL circle of friends playing, I'm sure most would feel the same if they did but the two aren't comparable.
I started out in a small, tight knit guild of 30 or so but the vast majority has quit the game with a few moving to different guilds. 10 of us merged into a strong guild for HAAT with only 3-4 remaining now of the original group.
Point being, people come and go in the game, unlike IRL friends. I like my guildmates a lot but let's be honest, I'm not inviting them to my wedding. Some will chose to stay with their on-line guildmates but there is nothing wrong with others deciding that moving on is the best decision. Unfortunately, content changes greatly increase the incentive to do so.
I have been a member of unseen sense guilds came out and have never left even with the hard times when the tank raid first came out most if not all of are OG members are here still to. in the end if people leave there guilds then that is up to them it just shows they care more about there progress then a sense of community as far as im concerned I will forever be a part of unseen.
all so this game is no place for people with no patience unless you are a whale you will hit hard times at some point no matter what imo so people must stay calm and do there thing just keep up the grind dont get upset and dont leave your in game family over something like raids or TB.
Most of people are not getting the point, I think.
The thing that TB will do is even the guilds, so something that it has been happening for a long time will stop now like:
There are many guilds that have casual players that barely do the 600 and get carried by 3-5 big hitters that they are now used to getting top rewards so they stay, and the others are just leaching from those top players.
What will happen is that those casual players will unlock half the rewards possible after their top 3-5 hitters join a guild that unlocks 85%, so they will be happier.
The smaller guild will either have to merge into a stronger guild or just accept that they can't get top rewards for being casual, that they will do anyways just it will take them double the time.
But at the end of the day, the daily strong players that are committed they will play together and possibly having more fun with players that meet their level of commitment.
So it's only a win, win
And to @NicWester, well done to sticking to your real friends, that's the game you like to play and you have every reason to do it, and I doubt that you will leave them.
But as for me, I moved guilds from a casual guild that I found, that wouldn't match my commitment and I was unhappy, but found a great guild with people I that play like me, and I am enjoying it much more, we are nowhere near top rewards as our guild barely has 90M galactic power, but surely the way we are working together, we will clear TB or close to it in 4-5 months after release like we did with HAAT that we only cleared in February,
Everyone has the right to play with whoever they want but as well, casual players should not be rewarded top rewards just because they have 2-3 big spenders in guild. That's unfair to strong people in a very strong guild getting reward for 30th instead of #1 every HAAT...get this last point??? That's what CG are trying to stop I THINK and cheers to that.
I've taken a different theory: sure, we can all stack rebels and go ham on Hoth...but what about other "territories"? I think it would be wise for guilds to think of this and maintain their body while its members specialize in other factions, just in case the next territory requires something that most won't have.
I've never been a fan of how the raid rewards create an ever growing gap in progression between guilds. The top players will score top rewards and grow stronger and faster than lower scoring players who will undoubtedly be growing like a slug behind the gearwall.
Top scorers will get frustrated with HAAT because the bottom lot are nowhere near ready while the top lot is. This is what truly leads to players leaving guilds for stronger companions. I beleive that if raid rewards were to be generally even in terms of gear acquisition, there would be a lot less hopping from guild to guild.
When strong players leave your guild, this has nothing to do with the equalized rewards. That's more because the guild won't be ready to chew through every territory.
Just make your guild a place, where friends want to stay and play.
if you spend more than 90% of the people on this forum, staying competative in arena eventhough your guild is "holding you back" in TB shouldn't be a problem.
Top spenders in lower-medium tier HAAT guilds will be incentivized to leave their guilds. This will result in loss of comradery and loss of sense of community, which will result in ....(fill in the blank).
I'm a relatively new player but a top 3 arena player, spent more on this game than 90 percent of people on this forum. I'm very unhappy with this situation. Unhappy players is bad for your business.
Suggestions: players who complete a certain percentage of the new raid will all be guaranteed enough g12 gear that they will be able to stay competitive in the arena with their competitors (who may spend less money than them but just be in "better" guilds).
Playing with the same people for almost a year and you're going to put me in this position EA? Shame on you.
No one is making you play the game. The day you leave, hundreds more join. They are looking at the long term health of the game. And not basing decisions strictly on making you or I happy directly. I think the same rewards across the guild is amazing. I think it will help build guilds. And as long as guilds are organized they will have a very realistic goal of what they can accomplish from the beginning.
If your guild is already working well together and people only get rewards for participating, then there shouldn't be in issue. Equal rewards are better than the random placement when half your guild solos the Rancor and your top run doesn't even get you in the top 10 rewards.
I agree. My guild has structured the raids in such a way that everyone gets equal rotating chances at good rewards and is right now making sure those who do not have Han at 7* is able to
Players shouldn't have to do what devs should have implemented in the first place.
We have to work on tedious mechanics and schedules to compensate bad design, it's not up to guilds to balance raids rewards, definitely.
After watching the new videos and the reward structure, it's not going to be as bad as people thought.
In one of the videos a dev made a pretty good point that was overlooked. He said a moderate guild can get 30 stars while getting the 45th star will be fairly difficult. Of course the the 45 has better rewards and a better prizebox, but the difference in tiers aren't that dramatic.
This is unlike HAAT where the weaker guilds got nothing at launch for quite a while while the mega guilds started getting GK shards fairly soon after launch. Since phase difficulty increases but you get the same rewards (just less of them), progress will be possible for moderate guilds right out of the gate. Just no more guilds with a few strong people carrying a bunch of weak ones since individual TB point contributions will be capped for all but the Deployment mission.
The prize and difficulty structure is great and doesn't mean the death of casual F2P players and guilds. There is more of an incentive to fill guilds to 50 people of similar GP than people jumping to stronger guilds especially if you don't have a strong roster yourself.
I've never been a fan of how the raid rewards create an ever growing gap in progression between guilds. The top players will score top rewards and grow stronger and faster than lower scoring players who will undoubtedly be growing like a slug behind the gearwall.
Top scorers will get frustrated with HAAT because the bottom lot are nowhere near ready while the top lot is. This is what truly leads to players leaving guilds for stronger companions. I beleive that if raid rewards were to be generally even in terms of gear acquisition, there would be a lot less hopping from guild to guild.
When strong players leave your guild, this has nothing to do with the equalized rewards. That's more because the guild won't be ready to chew through every territory.
Just make your guild a place, where friends want to stay and play.
Guild: an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal
And yet, all content from guilds to date has been about guild competition. Guild activities, Rancor raid, Tank raid: All pit guild members AGAINST each other to try to maximize rewards. The only mutual aid has been ticket creation (so we can launch another competition) and gear donation (the only genuinely collaborative thing).
So I for one am glad that we finally have something meaningful that is actually collaboration and cooperation in a guild.
I got extremely lucky when I leveled up to Lvl 60 or 65 eons ago (If memory serves me correctly that was the level you had to be just to join a guild). An active guild that was struggling to beat T5 Rancors and the original Normal tanks were way too much to handle. Fast forward to today and we smoke Heroic Rancors in less than 30 minutes but still haven't been able to overcome the Phase 2 hump in HAAT (Jeezus the damage jump from normal to HAAT is HUGE especially on what it takes to kill those cannons). But the point I'm making is what you just defined Dretzle; An association of people for mutual support or the pursuit of a common goal. I could be totally wrong but I don't see our guild fracturing over this. We have players who are more than HAAT ready but have stuck with it for the greater good. If anything I see the event as shaving any dead weight we have. We've never punished people for not participating in raids (technically they're the ones losing out on free gear, credits, shards, etc.). That's the only thing I see changing for us is requiring participation because not participating hurts everyone involved.
This whole push for better guild participation is a good thing, in my opinion. I am just hopeful that some time soon we have better tools to manage said "participation".
- Guild chat is a joke. If a conversation "takes off" you can easily miss an officer's instruction or inquiry. For the Line/Discord users yes there's your answer but why doesn't the game give a better way to communicate. Allowing officers (and not just the guild leader) to change announcements would be a step. Being able to send private messages (to individuals and the guild as a whole with the ability to attach READ receipts) would be a gift from the Gods!!!
- A daily Raid ticket counter that actually works (Building a spreadsheet from the ground up to track tickets can be a pain in the butt but with no other tools at our disposal I took it upon myself to do this for my guild)
Just touching the tip of the iceberg for guild management but I am hopeful that this new raid solidifies us. I'm sure like many guilds there will be a transition and a purging of those that don't pull their weight but I don't see why that's a bad thing.
if you spend more than 90% of the people on this forum, staying competative in arena eventhough your guild is "holding you back" in TB shouldn't be a problem.
You are exactly right, people were jumping ship like crazy when hAAT dropped. There will be some that leave and some stay. The reward system in both raids is broken. Gear isn't guaranteed and place really doesn't mean anything for gear.
Interesting experience, I'm one of those that did not jump ship. Eventually, after several months of 0 GK shards, we merged our guild with another to get heroic tank on farm, for both us and the other guild created from the merge. I now have a 7* GK and I was placing in the top 5 for the entire time.
People are overreacting, in my opinion. But that's just my way of playing.
Me too I did not jump ship and leave my guild either. We were going to merge with another guild, but that meant cutting out our lower end players from the guild, which as a team we all voted against and therefore our merge did not happen.
We are all dedicated players of various levels and are all supporting each other - we have not yet completed a HAAT raid - I have been playing since this game came out and I think I am the only player at my level that does not have GK - but there are bigger things about this game and GK is not necessarily essential.
TB will be the same - we will pull together and be strong together and that is the enjoyment of the guild - team work and overcoming our own difficulties and challenges. I am sure we will have HAAT on farm soon enough - yes we are set back several months not merging with a guild, but loyalty is more important to us and I think TB will bring us closer being able to share rewards.
Guild: an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal
And yet, all content from guilds to date has been about guild competition. Guild activities, Rancor raid, Tank raid: All pit guild members AGAINST each other to try to maximize rewards. The only mutual aid has been ticket creation (so we can launch another competition) and gear donation (the only genuinely collaborative thing).
So I for one am glad that we finally have something meaningful that is actually collaboration and cooperation in a guild.
I got extremely lucky when I leveled up to Lvl 60 or 65 eons ago (If memory serves me correctly that was the level you had to be just to join a guild). An active guild that was struggling to beat T5 Rancors and the original Normal tanks were way too much to handle. Fast forward to today and we smoke Heroic Rancors in less than 30 minutes but still haven't been able to overcome the Phase 2 hump in HAAT (Jeezus the damage jump from normal to HAAT is HUGE especially on what it takes to kill those cannons). But the point I'm making is what you just defined Dretzle; An association of people for mutual support or the pursuit of a common goal. I could be totally wrong but I don't see our guild fracturing over this. We have players who are more than HAAT ready but have stuck with it for the greater good. If anything I see the event as shaving any dead weight we have. We've never punished people for not participating in raids (technically they're the ones losing out on free gear, credits, shards, etc.). That's the only thing I see changing for us is requiring participation because not participating hurts everyone involved.
This whole push for better guild participation is a good thing, in my opinion. I am just hopeful that some time soon we have better tools to manage said "participation".
- Guild chat is a joke. If a conversation "takes off" you can easily miss an officer's instruction or inquiry. For the Line/Discord users yes there's your answer but why doesn't the game give a better way to communicate. Allowing officers (and not just the guild leader) to change announcements would be a step. Being able to send private messages (to individuals and the guild as a whole with the ability to attach READ receipts) would be a gift from the Gods!!!
- A daily Raid ticket counter that actually works (Building a spreadsheet from the ground up to track tickets can be a pain in the butt but with no other tools at our disposal I took it upon myself to do this for my guild)
Just touching the tip of the iceberg for guild management but I am hopeful that this new raid solidifies us. I'm sure like many guilds there will be a transition and a purging of those that don't pull their weight but I don't see why that's a bad thing.
Well said. I think it will bring my guild together. We are all grown ups with a life outside this game. We enjoy swgoh as a game, not a lifestyle. I'm an officer and at least once a week or more am kicking an inactive or a new member breaking the zero damage raid rule. I want to play the game, not babysit 50 members. There definatly needs to be better chat and guild management tools.
When TB was first announced, I believe the Devs stated it would disrupt current Guilds and cause the formation of stronger Guilds. I continue to play this game because of my Guildmates. If TB fractures Guilds it will truly be a sad day.
First off, to be honest, I don't remember devs saying that. I know people speculated that that would be the case.
Second, if TB does encourage guilds to restructure, that would be the second time (HAAT did the same).
Which begs the question of development team - why encourage guild formation and guild play, if you are going to continually release content to break them apart?
Again, I acknowledge that we don't know if TB's structure and/or rewards will do this yet. But I agree - if it does, it will be a sad development and another poor design choice that will likely lead to more players leaving.
Imo there is only so much a Dev can do to please the masses.......
Content is too easy? Oh devs don't make events for top tier players
Content too hard? Because of content my guild broke
Content only involves a few characters? I want to use my full roster
Content involves every character? Oh now the whales will leave my guild to dry
New content always provokes changes it's been happening since the rancor because when Rancor first came out my Guild couldn't do Heroic so a shuffle was made, HAAT came out my hole guild disbanded and I had to find a new guild, now TB I think my guild is strong enough to take it on but I can definitely feel some friction coming up for the first 2 or 3 attempts so it might cause some movement and hopefully it's minimum but there is always one that will complain. Time doesn't work for me, I'm not as strong as the rest, I'm pulling the heavy lifting, X person isn't completing the special mission kick him or I leave.......This is normal and part of the game just enjoy the new content while you can with whoever enjoys it with you.
Top spenders in lower-medium tier HAAT guilds will be incentivized to leave their guilds. This will result in loss of comradery and loss of sense of community, which will result in ....(fill in the blank).
I'm a relatively new player but a top 3 arena player, spent more on this game than 90 percent of people on this forum. I'm very unhappy with this situation. Unhappy players is bad for your business.
Suggestions: players who complete a certain percentage of the new raid will all be guaranteed enough g12 gear that they will be able to stay competitive in the arena with their competitors (who may spend less money than them but just be in "better" guilds).
Playing with the same people for almost a year and you're going to put me in this position EA? Shame on you.
Flat rewards are much better for this problem than the current reward structure.
The problem with tiered rewards across the guild is that over an extended period these rewards gradually stratify the strength of guild members because internally tiered rewards are inherently zero sum -- someone getting first place means someone else getting less. If the least powerful members of a guild are earning less, and the strongest members are earning more, the difference in advancement rates pushes the strongest members way ahead of the weakest ones - it just takes months to demonstrate these dividends. Eventually this differential becomes insurmountable -- the stronger members are so far ahead that the weaker ones will never catch up. The weaker members become a liability to the stronger members who then have a strong incentive to leave the guild and join one where everyone else is at their level (where this stratification process starts again).
Basically, the reward structure created by raids makes the breakup of a guild inevitable (or at the least, a mass exodus). Flat rewards are FAR healthier for guilds in the long run and I applaud the developers for not only recognizing that, but actually doing it. I'll concede that the shock of the new system is likely to break guilds that are already on the verge of breaking because of the above problem - but this should come as no surprise.
Internal tiering already breaks guilds in the way you describe, but the shock subsides after the guild has grown strong enough to beat the hardest content. Basically, you won't observe the stress the reward schema puts on the social structure of the guild until the guild can't beat the new content -- but the guild will be rotting internally the entire time. Flat rewards do less damage to the relative power rating of members over time, which means a far lower chance that new content six months or a year down the line will expose the growing power differential in the guild and turn previously useful members into liabilities.
I've been playing this game since Nov 15' changed OS in Jan 16' and currently have a galatic power of just over 2 million... im not a big spender, but ive bought some "good deals" and a few bad ones.
I started my guild when guilds came out, I've always sought to help newer players... because most advanced players are disloyal, guildhopping, backstabbing, gearhawgs... ive never really enforced any rules other than log in every 30 days... which has been uped to every 14 days now with TB coming.
My guild regularly does T7 pit 1 per week and a T4/5 per week. We do AAT only and are very close to starting our first HAAT. We have about 20-30 members participate in T7 & AAT... half of which are peeps in the 1 million+ galactic power range.
Bottom line is i have always ALWAYS said that this is a game we play to have FUN!
As a member of GOH community from launch, and a guild that has watched how so many purposefully leeched off other guilds to unlock GK... I am very happy to see that the rewards will be equalized... this means my guild can now directly help our newer members advance quicker and this is a good thing.
What im saying is my guild has progressed naturally, without unnaturally juicing our roster... and without any real type of rule enforcement... everyone has been very helpful and great team players. Sure some have left for mega guilds and unlocked GK. And thats not a bad thing...
My ulitimate point here is this... if you have GK unlocked and your commenting in this thread on how reward equalization is good or bad, your guild has done something to vastly increase its chances vs. HAAT. You are guilty of guild manipulation either directly or by association (being in that guild) and that my fellow forum readers means you have already willing and actively pursued a path that gets you better rewards faster...
Thus equalizing rewards only (mainly) helps the ones who have not actively tried to manipulate the rewards to there favor.
Dear OP, 19th century is long gone. If you don't like sitting around commoners, take your leave and join your "equals".
If yoy dont know what I mean, watch "Titanic" again.
I've been playing this game since Nov 15' changed OS in Jan 16' and currently have a galatic power of just over 2 million... im not a big spender, but ive bought some "good deals" and a few bad ones.
I started my guild when guilds came out, I've always sought to help newer players... because most advanced players are guildhopping, backstabbing, gearhawgs... ive never really enfoced any rules other than log in every 30 days... which has been uped to every 14 days now with TB coming.
My guild regularly does T7 pit 1 per week and a T4/5 per week. We do AAT only and are very close to starting our first HAAT. We have about 20-30 members participate in T7 & AAT... half of which are peeps in the 1 million+ galactic power range.
Bottom line is i have always ALWAYS said that this is a game we play to have FUN!
As a member of GOH community from launch, and a guild that has watched how so many purposefully leeched off other guilds to unlock GK... I am very happy to see that the rewards will be equalized... this means my guild can now directly help our newer members advance quicker and this is a good thing.
What im saying is my guild has progressed naturally, without unnaturally juicing our roster... and without any real type of rule enforcement... everyone has been very helpful and great team players. Sure some have left for mega guilds and unlocked GK. And thats not a bad thing...
My ulitimate point here is this... if you have GK unlocked and your commenting in this thread on how reward equalization is good or bad, you are more guilty than others of guild manipulation. And reward equalization will still help everyone, but will mainly help the guilds that have not actively tried to manipulate the rewards payout.
I am in no way saying that restructuring your guild last summer in anticipation of AAT raid is wrong. Or joining a HAAT guild just to do 1 pt of dmg to earn GK shards is wrong. What im saying is that if you have GK unlocked, then your guild is SO FAR AHEAD of a naturally grown guild, that you are missing the point. Reward equalization is only equal to what you have already accomplished by unlocking GK (some more than others) and that by disapproving of reward equalization you might as well have your GK removed... think about that, and if you had your GK removed and were no longer able to join a guild thats HAAT ready, would you still want to disapprove of reward equalization?
Reward equalization will grow the base of new players faster, thus increasing the longevity of the game overall.
Those of you who have GK unlocked have done SOMETHING it make it so... and extending this same benifit to everyone, ESPECIALLY the newer GOH members is a win for us all, once you look past your immediate self.
Look at the guild search. Next to c3po.
It's an advanced search to help players find a guild that is at their same galactic power level.
Thing that is so different is it's inside guild room so you will be able to search through guilds while in one.
It will take a little time but purpose of territory battles is to equalize guilds.
Smart players/ guilds will want to be with 50 member guild of their own level
I've been playing this game since Nov 15' changed OS in Jan 16' and currently have a galatic power of just over 2 million... im not a big spender, but ive bought some "good deals" and a few bad ones.
I started my guild when guilds came out, I've always sought to help newer players... because most advanced players are guildhopping, backstabbing, gearhawgs... ive never really enfoced any rules other than log in every 30 days... which has been uped to every 14 days now with TB coming.
My guild regularly does T7 pit 1 per week and a T4/5 per week. We do AAT only and are very close to starting our first HAAT. We have about 20-30 members participate in T7 & AAT... half of which are peeps in the 1 million+ galactic power range.
Bottom line is i have always ALWAYS said that this is a game we play to have FUN!
As a member of GOH community from launch, and a guild that has watched how so many purposefully leeched off other guilds to unlock GK... I am very happy to see that the rewards will be equalized... this means my guild can now directly help our newer members advance quicker and this is a good thing.
What im saying is my guild has progressed naturally, without unnaturally juicing our roster... and without any real type of rule enforcement... everyone has been very helpful and great team players. Sure some have left for mega guilds and unlocked GK. And thats not a bad thing...
My ulitimate point here is this... if you have GK unlocked and your commenting in this thread on how reward equalization is good or bad, you are more guilty than others of guild manipulation. And reward equalization will still help everyone, but will mainly help the guilds that have not actively tried to manipulate the rewards payout.
I am in no way saying that restructuring your guild last summer in anticipation of AAT raid is wrong. Or joining a HAAT guild just to do 1 pt of dmg to earn GK shards is wrong. What im saying is that if you have GK unlocked, then your guild is SO FAR AHEAD of a naturally grown guild, that you are missing the point. Reward equalization is only equal to what you have already accomplished by unlocking GK (some more than others) and that by disapproving of reward equalization you might as well have your GK removed... think about that, and if you had your GK removed and were no longer able to join a guild thats HAAT ready, would you still want to disapprove of reward equalization?
Reward equalization will grow the base of new players faster, thus increasing the longevity of the game overall.
Those of you who have GK unlocked have done SOMETHING it make it so... and extending this same benifit to everyone, ESPECIALLY the newer GOH members is a win for us all, once you look past your immediate self.
I agree a hundred percent I'm in a casual guild I could probably move to a stronger guild but for me it's about playing and we have several level 85s non of us are past a million galactic power but we are all getting stronger and I think the equal rewards raises the lowest and the highest so we all win
Replies
I agree. My guild has structured the raids in such a way that everyone gets equal rotating chances at good rewards and is right now making sure those who do not have Han at 7* is able to
Because guilds may want to bring in people who are equally invested in the game via time and/or money. So they all equally can reap the rewards, and not feel like they are 'carrying' and 'suffering less rewards' due to the high school freshman, trying to run with the college seniors.
But this won't be the case for most guilds, most currently strong guilds that is. Since they most likely already had a steep minimum requirements for someone to join their ranks. Also guilds of friends won't be booting their own friends. So if you're not committed to a guild by friends or the same steep requirements, then yeah you might get the boot from your rag-tag guild.
Well said @NicWester
I am guessing the whaliest guilds will be able to finish most of the TB and in a month begging for more content (ok with that too I would love not to have to wait for 10-11 months for new real content).
The medium guilds will be fine. Slower but will catch up.
Smaller guilds will totally die unless casual (also healthy)
A lot of the guild disparity is the poor design of guilds themselves. It's way too difficult to find and communicate in game.
From your post, it seems because you put a lot of money, it should keep you competitive regardless which guild you are in.
From what I understand with TB, it is a guild cooperation event (not "the biggest hitter will get 1st" like HAAT for example).
Stronger players will "help" weaker players to get better rewards, so everyone may be able to level up/gear up altogether. So yeah, maybe those weaker players will pull down the strongest, but as other people said, unhappy people will leave their guild to a "strong players only guild" maybe.
As a f2p, I think this is a great system, but for an heavy spender, yes it will surely hurt to see free players kitten in arena because they got better rewards than you do, thanks to being a member of a nice cooperative guild.
PS: if you have been spending so much, you surely are already ready for gear XII. Do not fear, your favorite way of getting gear (real money for crystals) would surely get you a lot of those gear pieces in shipments eventually.
The vast majority don't have their IRL circle of friends playing, I'm sure most would feel the same if they did but the two aren't comparable.
I started out in a small, tight knit guild of 30 or so but the vast majority has quit the game with a few moving to different guilds. 10 of us merged into a strong guild for HAAT with only 3-4 remaining now of the original group.
Point being, people come and go in the game, unlike IRL friends. I like my guildmates a lot but let's be honest, I'm not inviting them to my wedding. Some will chose to stay with their on-line guildmates but there is nothing wrong with others deciding that moving on is the best decision. Unfortunately, content changes greatly increase the incentive to do so.
all so this game is no place for people with no patience unless you are a whale you will hit hard times at some point no matter what imo so people must stay calm and do there thing just keep up the grind dont get upset and dont leave your in game family over something like raids or TB.
The thing that TB will do is even the guilds, so something that it has been happening for a long time will stop now like:
There are many guilds that have casual players that barely do the 600 and get carried by 3-5 big hitters that they are now used to getting top rewards so they stay, and the others are just leaching from those top players.
What will happen is that those casual players will unlock half the rewards possible after their top 3-5 hitters join a guild that unlocks 85%, so they will be happier.
The smaller guild will either have to merge into a stronger guild or just accept that they can't get top rewards for being casual, that they will do anyways just it will take them double the time.
But at the end of the day, the daily strong players that are committed they will play together and possibly having more fun with players that meet their level of commitment.
So it's only a win, win
And to @NicWester, well done to sticking to your real friends, that's the game you like to play and you have every reason to do it, and I doubt that you will leave them.
But as for me, I moved guilds from a casual guild that I found, that wouldn't match my commitment and I was unhappy, but found a great guild with people I that play like me, and I am enjoying it much more, we are nowhere near top rewards as our guild barely has 90M galactic power, but surely the way we are working together, we will clear TB or close to it in 4-5 months after release like we did with HAAT that we only cleared in February,
Everyone has the right to play with whoever they want but as well, casual players should not be rewarded top rewards just because they have 2-3 big spenders in guild. That's unfair to strong people in a very strong guild getting reward for 30th instead of #1 every HAAT...get this last point??? That's what CG are trying to stop I THINK and cheers to that.
When strong players leave your guild, this has nothing to do with the equalized rewards. That's more because the guild won't be ready to chew through every territory.
Just make your guild a place, where friends want to stay and play.
Even elephants take dives in soccer. Unbelievable.
This
This. This right here.
No one is making you play the game. The day you leave, hundreds more join. They are looking at the long term health of the game. And not basing decisions strictly on making you or I happy directly. I think the same rewards across the guild is amazing. I think it will help build guilds. And as long as guilds are organized they will have a very realistic goal of what they can accomplish from the beginning.
Players shouldn't have to do what devs should have implemented in the first place.
We have to work on tedious mechanics and schedules to compensate bad design, it's not up to guilds to balance raids rewards, definitely.
In one of the videos a dev made a pretty good point that was overlooked. He said a moderate guild can get 30 stars while getting the 45th star will be fairly difficult. Of course the the 45 has better rewards and a better prizebox, but the difference in tiers aren't that dramatic.
This is unlike HAAT where the weaker guilds got nothing at launch for quite a while while the mega guilds started getting GK shards fairly soon after launch. Since phase difficulty increases but you get the same rewards (just less of them), progress will be possible for moderate guilds right out of the gate. Just no more guilds with a few strong people carrying a bunch of weak ones since individual TB point contributions will be capped for all but the Deployment mission.
The prize and difficulty structure is great and doesn't mean the death of casual F2P players and guilds. There is more of an incentive to fill guilds to 50 people of similar GP than people jumping to stronger guilds especially if you don't have a strong roster yourself.
My post flew over your head.
I got extremely lucky when I leveled up to Lvl 60 or 65 eons ago (If memory serves me correctly that was the level you had to be just to join a guild). An active guild that was struggling to beat T5 Rancors and the original Normal tanks were way too much to handle. Fast forward to today and we smoke Heroic Rancors in less than 30 minutes but still haven't been able to overcome the Phase 2 hump in HAAT (Jeezus the damage jump from normal to HAAT is HUGE especially on what it takes to kill those cannons). But the point I'm making is what you just defined Dretzle; An association of people for mutual support or the pursuit of a common goal. I could be totally wrong but I don't see our guild fracturing over this. We have players who are more than HAAT ready but have stuck with it for the greater good. If anything I see the event as shaving any dead weight we have. We've never punished people for not participating in raids (technically they're the ones losing out on free gear, credits, shards, etc.). That's the only thing I see changing for us is requiring participation because not participating hurts everyone involved.
This whole push for better guild participation is a good thing, in my opinion. I am just hopeful that some time soon we have better tools to manage said "participation".
- Guild chat is a joke. If a conversation "takes off" you can easily miss an officer's instruction or inquiry. For the Line/Discord users yes there's your answer but why doesn't the game give a better way to communicate. Allowing officers (and not just the guild leader) to change announcements would be a step. Being able to send private messages (to individuals and the guild as a whole with the ability to attach READ receipts) would be a gift from the Gods!!!
- A daily Raid ticket counter that actually works (Building a spreadsheet from the ground up to track tickets can be a pain in the butt but with no other tools at our disposal I took it upon myself to do this for my guild)
Just touching the tip of the iceberg for guild management but I am hopeful that this new raid solidifies us. I'm sure like many guilds there will be a transition and a purging of those that don't pull their weight but I don't see why that's a bad thing.
Exactly!
Me too I did not jump ship and leave my guild either. We were going to merge with another guild, but that meant cutting out our lower end players from the guild, which as a team we all voted against and therefore our merge did not happen.
We are all dedicated players of various levels and are all supporting each other - we have not yet completed a HAAT raid - I have been playing since this game came out and I think I am the only player at my level that does not have GK - but there are bigger things about this game and GK is not necessarily essential.
TB will be the same - we will pull together and be strong together and that is the enjoyment of the guild - team work and overcoming our own difficulties and challenges. I am sure we will have HAAT on farm soon enough - yes we are set back several months not merging with a guild, but loyalty is more important to us and I think TB will bring us closer being able to share rewards.
Well said. I think it will bring my guild together. We are all grown ups with a life outside this game. We enjoy swgoh as a game, not a lifestyle. I'm an officer and at least once a week or more am kicking an inactive or a new member breaking the zero damage raid rule. I want to play the game, not babysit 50 members. There definatly needs to be better chat and guild management tools.
Imo there is only so much a Dev can do to please the masses.......
Content is too easy? Oh devs don't make events for top tier players
Content too hard? Because of content my guild broke
Content only involves a few characters? I want to use my full roster
Content involves every character? Oh now the whales will leave my guild to dry
New content always provokes changes it's been happening since the rancor because when Rancor first came out my Guild couldn't do Heroic so a shuffle was made, HAAT came out my hole guild disbanded and I had to find a new guild, now TB I think my guild is strong enough to take it on but I can definitely feel some friction coming up for the first 2 or 3 attempts so it might cause some movement and hopefully it's minimum but there is always one that will complain. Time doesn't work for me, I'm not as strong as the rest, I'm pulling the heavy lifting, X person isn't completing the special mission kick him or I leave.......This is normal and part of the game just enjoy the new content while you can with whoever enjoys it with you.
Flat rewards are much better for this problem than the current reward structure.
The problem with tiered rewards across the guild is that over an extended period these rewards gradually stratify the strength of guild members because internally tiered rewards are inherently zero sum -- someone getting first place means someone else getting less. If the least powerful members of a guild are earning less, and the strongest members are earning more, the difference in advancement rates pushes the strongest members way ahead of the weakest ones - it just takes months to demonstrate these dividends. Eventually this differential becomes insurmountable -- the stronger members are so far ahead that the weaker ones will never catch up. The weaker members become a liability to the stronger members who then have a strong incentive to leave the guild and join one where everyone else is at their level (where this stratification process starts again).
Basically, the reward structure created by raids makes the breakup of a guild inevitable (or at the least, a mass exodus). Flat rewards are FAR healthier for guilds in the long run and I applaud the developers for not only recognizing that, but actually doing it. I'll concede that the shock of the new system is likely to break guilds that are already on the verge of breaking because of the above problem - but this should come as no surprise.
Internal tiering already breaks guilds in the way you describe, but the shock subsides after the guild has grown strong enough to beat the hardest content. Basically, you won't observe the stress the reward schema puts on the social structure of the guild until the guild can't beat the new content -- but the guild will be rotting internally the entire time. Flat rewards do less damage to the relative power rating of members over time, which means a far lower chance that new content six months or a year down the line will expose the growing power differential in the guild and turn previously useful members into liabilities.
I've been playing this game since Nov 15' changed OS in Jan 16' and currently have a galatic power of just over 2 million... im not a big spender, but ive bought some "good deals" and a few bad ones.
I started my guild when guilds came out, I've always sought to help newer players... because most advanced players are disloyal, guildhopping, backstabbing, gearhawgs... ive never really enforced any rules other than log in every 30 days... which has been uped to every 14 days now with TB coming.
My guild regularly does T7 pit 1 per week and a T4/5 per week. We do AAT only and are very close to starting our first HAAT. We have about 20-30 members participate in T7 & AAT... half of which are peeps in the 1 million+ galactic power range.
Bottom line is i have always ALWAYS said that this is a game we play to have FUN!
As a member of GOH community from launch, and a guild that has watched how so many purposefully leeched off other guilds to unlock GK... I am very happy to see that the rewards will be equalized... this means my guild can now directly help our newer members advance quicker and this is a good thing.
What im saying is my guild has progressed naturally, without unnaturally juicing our roster... and without any real type of rule enforcement... everyone has been very helpful and great team players. Sure some have left for mega guilds and unlocked GK. And thats not a bad thing...
My ulitimate point here is this... if you have GK unlocked and your commenting in this thread on how reward equalization is good or bad, your guild has done something to vastly increase its chances vs. HAAT. You are guilty of guild manipulation either directly or by association (being in that guild) and that my fellow forum readers means you have already willing and actively pursued a path that gets you better rewards faster...
Thus equalizing rewards only (mainly) helps the ones who have not actively tried to manipulate the rewards to there favor.
If yoy dont know what I mean, watch "Titanic" again.
https://swgoh.gg/u/xezee/
I've been playing this game since Nov 15' changed OS in Jan 16' and currently have a galatic power of just over 2 million... im not a big spender, but ive bought some "good deals" and a few bad ones.
I started my guild when guilds came out, I've always sought to help newer players... because most advanced players are guildhopping, backstabbing, gearhawgs... ive never really enfoced any rules other than log in every 30 days... which has been uped to every 14 days now with TB coming.
My guild regularly does T7 pit 1 per week and a T4/5 per week. We do AAT only and are very close to starting our first HAAT. We have about 20-30 members participate in T7 & AAT... half of which are peeps in the 1 million+ galactic power range.
Bottom line is i have always ALWAYS said that this is a game we play to have FUN!
As a member of GOH community from launch, and a guild that has watched how so many purposefully leeched off other guilds to unlock GK... I am very happy to see that the rewards will be equalized... this means my guild can now directly help our newer members advance quicker and this is a good thing.
What im saying is my guild has progressed naturally, without unnaturally juicing our roster... and without any real type of rule enforcement... everyone has been very helpful and great team players. Sure some have left for mega guilds and unlocked GK. And thats not a bad thing...
My ulitimate point here is this... if you have GK unlocked and your commenting in this thread on how reward equalization is good or bad, you are more guilty than others of guild manipulation. And reward equalization will still help everyone, but will mainly help the guilds that have not actively tried to manipulate the rewards payout.
I am in no way saying that restructuring your guild last summer in anticipation of AAT raid is wrong. Or joining a HAAT guild just to do 1 pt of dmg to earn GK shards is wrong. What im saying is that if you have GK unlocked, then your guild is SO FAR AHEAD of a naturally grown guild, that you are missing the point. Reward equalization is only equal to what you have already accomplished by unlocking GK (some more than others) and that by disapproving of reward equalization you might as well have your GK removed... think about that, and if you had your GK removed and were no longer able to join a guild thats HAAT ready, would you still want to disapprove of reward equalization?
Reward equalization will grow the base of new players faster, thus increasing the longevity of the game overall.
Those of you who have GK unlocked have done SOMETHING it make it so... and extending this same benifit to everyone, ESPECIALLY the newer GOH members is a win for us all, once you look past your immediate self.
It's an advanced search to help players find a guild that is at their same galactic power level.
Thing that is so different is it's inside guild room so you will be able to search through guilds while in one.
It will take a little time but purpose of territory battles is to equalize guilds.
Smart players/ guilds will want to be with 50 member guild of their own level
I agree a hundred percent I'm in a casual guild I could probably move to a stronger guild but for me it's about playing and we have several level 85s non of us are past a million galactic power but we are all getting stronger and I think the equal rewards raises the lowest and the highest so we all win