I liked the old speed system

Hello. So, after a few days of arena post-patch and the speed fix, I've come to a startling realization.

I liked the old speed system.

Yeah, read that again. I liked it. It gave some variety to matches, some much needed randomness. Now, I already know 90% of the way a match will go, due to the shortness of fights and due to knowing exact speed numbers on toons. Before? The tier system led to much more variance, leading to some matches where I had to adapt to overcome. Look, I think we can all agree on two things:
-speed is one of(if not the) most important stat for most teams.
-the AI is pretty meh in this game.
Well, when you combine the two, it turns arena into either a series of exact coin flips(QGJ v QGJ followed by GS v GS followed by Rey v Rey) or its boring (I know my QGJ can take out his Rey, so then my GS can take out Poe if Rey goes after him, which means Poe then Ob to lock out their team).

The old system did two things very very right. The first is, it actually devalued speed that didn't push a character over a threshold. This served to make the most valuable stat a little less valuable for most cases. It meant that we could have more variety, since you didn't need a specific speed setup but could do people from the same turn level. The second thing is, it allowed for some real random and nutty fights. Thee fights had more variance which allowed the AI to actually win, since players didn't have an exact key to what the AI would do. As it is now? Most players can probably look at both teams and write down the exact move order.

So, yeah, I actually liked the old system.

Replies

  • Options
    I much prefer this one. The number of units usable has increased significantly and you can actually counter various builds based on what they are using. QGJ as lead....Hello Mr. Dooku ... he still goes first and stuns Jinn at a high rate.

    You'll also start to see things open up a lot more for options when you build a tankier squad that can counter the high dps teams by letting them all take first turns and then firing back. Those teams, the tank teams with lighter damage, are vulnerable to healer teams...but healer teams are in turn vulnerable to speed / damage teams. There's a pretty legit rock / paper / scissors in the game now. The issue is we are still a bit early in the game's lifecycle for people to have enough of the roster built up to tease it out.

    I see the game balanced about as perfectly as a game like this can be. The speed system made it about character matchups and operating them correctly. The old speed system made it about coin flips and fewer characters were in the consideration set.
  • D_Millennial
    847 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    I like the new system. Opens up many more viable team comps.
  • Options
    I'm curious as to why you feel that fewer characters are in the consideration set right before as compared to right now. I'd argue that Arena leader first turn applications opened more characters up than any speed change did. Moreover, I'd argue that outside of Dooku and Daka that most characters did not see an increase in viability due to the speed change. And that teams that were reliant on Poe saw a decrease in viability (classic droid squads, and therefore HK. Yes, I know that GS/Poggle droids still work, but my point is that some characters lost viability. Likewise, some people feel that Poe is no longer viable, due to the number of major damage dealers that go before him, such as Rey, GS, QGJ, Leia, Sid).

    I know we're early on in the life cycle of the game, but I think you're being overly optimistic about the balance for a rock/paper/scissors. Not that I want you to be wrong, just that damage and speed are simply too viable (as it stands, and as at least damage should be. In no way am I advocating for stalemate matches). It feels like rock beats scissors, and paper most of the time. And that paper only beats rock when paper is attacking, and only if rock doesn't RNG his way out of things (QGJ or GS hitting the same target. Poe going before Poggle and chaining into an OB lockout).

    I understand that the game was about coin flips before, a lot of randomness went into the Turn 7 round. But with the current way it plays, I get less interested in looking at a field and knowing both who will go when, and what they will most likely (or at least, optimally) do.
  • Options
    system is more fair before was. dooku have best speed but before was he was going after lower speedy chars.
  • Options
    Hello. So, after a few days of arena post-patch and the speed fix, I've come to a startling realization.

    I liked the old speed system.

    Yeah, read that again. I liked it. It gave some variety to matches, some much needed randomness. Now, I already know 90% of the way a match will go, due to the shortness of fights and due to knowing exact speed numbers on toons. Before? The tier system led to much more variance, leading to some matches where I had to adapt to overcome. Look, I think we can all agree on two things:
    -speed is one of(if not the) most important stat for most teams.
    -the AI is pretty meh in this game.
    Well, when you combine the two, it turns arena into either a series of exact coin flips(QGJ v QGJ followed by GS v GS followed by Rey v Rey) or its boring (I know my QGJ can take out his Rey, so then my GS can take out Poe if Rey goes after him, which means Poe then Ob to lock out their team).

    The old system did two things very very right. The first is, it actually devalued speed that didn't push a character over a threshold. This served to make the most valuable stat a little less valuable for most cases. It meant that we could have more variety, since you didn't need a specific speed setup but could do people from the same turn level. The second thing is, it allowed for some real random and nutty fights. Thee fights had more variance which allowed the AI to actually win, since players didn't have an exact key to what the AI would do. As it is now? Most players can probably look at both teams and write down the exact move order.

    So, yeah, I actually liked the old system.

    Totally. I saw this coming and highlighted how it is not worst but an extremely boring paper, rock, scissors. People like @JohnnySteelAlpha will argue that any change makes the grass greener and the water bluer.

    The nerf of Poe brought an end to a useful no extinct class (Tanks), the speed mexhanic turned the game into an "Order of Play" system.

    There was a poster from TeamInstinct that spent 4k highlighting how he would much expect AI to be better.

    Sounds arrogant and it will be: peope don't understand that MORE VARIETY of effective teams is a myth, and to the degree that they exist correlates exactly with how much Rock, Paper, Scissors.

    Now, nobody noticed that the attacker CAN select any of the three options, and the DEFENDER has a fixed one. In a true Paper Rock Scissors (PRS), ANY setup even approximating PRS, where you fight a static team with perfect information (you can now see compostion an gear of anyone you go against with) but you get to choose the team means DEFENSE is impossible for equality diversified squads in a given arena. Ie. If all have a stron varied rooster, which is saying the have Rock AND Paper AND Scissors, DEFENSE allways loses. And investing in having every char max everything does solve anything: you just win on attack and WILL lose aleays on defense - except with a BAD player that does know how to play GoH RPS.

    The previous system had more LUCK in that chars have a primary class but also a speed class which they termed 6, 7, 8. Given a fight of 10 chars all turn 7, to say one example, understanding the probabilities of wining of ALL posible turn orders and arriving at an optimal STRATEGY was not at all trivial. It required assessing more than 10! (Or 10 * 9 * 8 * ... * 1). That's not essy and why TeamInstinct would find setups that overperform...it was not even so easy to assess why the work better overall. You just thought to had bad luck.

    In the current systems it's very easy with one linear order, extremely trivial, and with the trivial order of attack and no hedge (like viable tanks) or some early on turn meter RNG (which effectively shufled things in favor of one or the other side), and no way to protect anyone from higher speed options, the PRS is basically turned into....

    Galaxy of Musical Chairs!

    Pwon win win win win (sleep) lose lose lose lose lose lose (wake up) win win win win ad infinitu

    To fix this CG can boost defense to comoensate for lack of abikity to adjust the team, for the huge advantage for enemy to see your composition.

    They can bring back turn pools. If the problem was too few chars in turn 7...bring 10 more. But speed leadership solved a large chunk.

    Come up with innovative ideas...like start games with 1 cool down on Specials or nerf attacks to early on....like 1st turn hits 70%, second hits 75%, thirs 80%.

    Bring back 3-4 viable tanks to the game.

    Hide team compositions in Arena

    Allow for unique character personalizations (some basic tree) so that no char is exactly the same. This does the same a amazingly increasing the complexity with Turn Pools.

    Allow defense to select 2 leaderships by defending with one Ally. Kniwing you can snipe Arena up does not give me ANY satisfaction if I cannit defend either.

    --

    The fack that Poe was hard to counter was really interesting. The problem was that there werent many options that allowed solid defense. If we had 4 tanks and teams hard to counter, things would have been much more interesting.

    The hate for Poe was caused because it's anoyong if he is mostly appearing to cause instant good defense (which in reality required very smart builds!).

    I think Arena has become Musical Chairs with a fully broken PRS that instead of the reachness of Dune Ii (creators of RTS games) or Starcraft , are just a huge enternal boriness.

    I LEFT A ROCK IN ARENA. A very good rock. It's not the AI. It's thebgame design that needs attention.

    One last thing that can pleae whales is.. Get rid of caps entirely and make the grind more exponentially slow. That way a $4000 whale can have a 10% permanent advantage always by continuing to spend. Making his chars more powerful than the average will ensure good ROCK may still beat PAPER teams. And it will ALWAYS beat other ROCK teams of lower power. In essense make it bit more P2W...
    .


  • Options
    I much prefer this one. The number of units usable has increased significantly and you can actually counter various builds based on what they are using. QGJ as lead....Hello Mr. Dooku ... he still goes first and stuns Jinn at a high rate.

    You'll also start to see things open up a lot more for options when you build a tankier squad that can counter the high dps teams by letting them all take first turns and then firing back. Those teams, the tank teams with lighter damage, are vulnerable to healer teams...but healer teams are in turn vulnerable to speed / damage teams. There's a pretty legit rock / paper / scissors in the game now. The issue is we are still a bit early in the game's lifecycle for people to have enough of the roster built up to tease it out.

    I see the game balanced about as perfectly as a game like this can be. The speed system made it about character matchups and operating them correctly. The old speed system made it about coin flips and fewer characters were in the consideration set.

    The game doesn't have a huge trree like chess and go. Each setup can be easily and mechanically countered now. It's good that you like Paper Rock Scissors. Some RNG doesn't mean atu-win or lose. It just requires understanding how to design a team that accounts for all possible outcomes based on 100 to 5,000+ possible orders of play (depending on distribution of chars in orevious turn polls).

    Ultimately there is no good or bad...but who will be pushed away from the game and how much money each group makes.

  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.
  • Options
    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.

    This doesn't come off as boring?
    Star Wars: Galaxy of Supporting Cast Members
  • Options
    Fabzorz wrote: »
    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.

    This doesn't come off as boring?

    Yes, my 6 year old doesn't play Rock Paper Scissors often, maybe with a friend from school once every month. But he never plays my 3 year old that always waits for him to show his "Hand" to then "Win". He learned to avoid playing with her altogether of course. Remove Rewards from Arena and Accomplishments and anyone with a deep roster will become bored like my 6 year okd instantly. But some others are more like my 3 which loves "winning" ever so easily.

  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Rock scissors paper is kind of boring, but still far more interesting that heads/tails.
    It will be more interesting when we add lizard/spock
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Triqui wrote: »
    Rock scissors paper is kind of boring, but still more interesting that heads/tails.

    Head and tails and drawing Rock/Rock are the same. But this is not traditional RPS, but the version where ine shows his hands, and the other next. Guss who wins most often.

    The turn meter pools allowed some RNG in batches and still synergy across batches. Poe WAS a bit boring because he was the only viable Tank. Now it's almost all infrantry and some innovator use all Cavaldry (heavy AoE).

    It's opinion. I think if you are thilled now that's great really. Poe needed other tanks or a little (not that much) nerf. The abikity to see any team just made it even more PRS "show your hand first".

    I wish I could select 4 DEFENSE variants and thebgane pick up one randomly. After all, the attacker needs some challenge for the game to be fun. Right now that is gone.

  • Options
    I liked the version of A New Hope where han shot first and there weren't any goofy CG "corrections". You have about the same chance getting the old speed system back as I do getting a Bluray disc of the 1977 theatrical release. just move forward with your life pal. :#
  • Options
    The old speed system was based on luck now we have to build teams around ways to counted speed. & Anyone faster then anyone else moves first no matter what.
  • Options
    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.

    I'll counter with the idea that you may use different teams to push matchups on attack, however, you probably leave one team (one specifically designed team) for "defense". More than that, you could probably win 90% of the attacks with a high speed/attack team due to knowing the exact turn orders. What you described initially, at least to me, is a setup where some teams run Healer centric, some run TankAOE, some run speed, and all three have an interesting time matching up to each other. What you actually meant is that you swap in ideal characters due to the current predictability of speed/AI, and that some teams/characters are hard countered, which can be abused.

    Or, to put it another way. I read your original intent as that there exist RMPs, WarRogDruid, and WLDs. That would be awesome. I'd love that level of variety. Where players can use one squad and leave it as attack/defense, and other players either switch their teams or avoid certain unfavorable matchups. But what we have is that everyone leaves an WarRogDruid on defense and switches to WLD for attack. Or that it's nothing but Melee pain trains because that's what is effective and what most players already have. We still have very little variety. I am *not* enamored with the idea that variety exists, but only for the attacker. And that even if we argue for variety on attack, it will be minimal, because the teams you are countering are going to be the same. Because some teams are just a little bit better on defense (considering most teams are horrible on defense).

    Right now, with the current speed the way it is, you can "switch" a speed/DPS team to include Dooku for the pre-QGJ coin flip and expect a stunned enemy QGJ. Then expect to use your QGJ to punish their Rey or Poe, depending on who you want to assist pain train next. Or, you can swap in your beefy aoe squad if you want, it'll accomplish pretty much the same thing, maybe with a slightly higher win rate, depends on the RNG I guess. I personally prefer adapting during a fight, over pre-scripting a fight in my head before the match. There is simply too much information about teams readily available and it's making the pre-match the match. Which is fun as a brain game, but with the speed at which most players are able to change their lineup (or even the viability of different lineups) means that you do the exact same fights again and again. It's Groundhog day, but at 6 pm.

  • Options
    Triqui wrote: »
    Rock scissors paper is kind of boring, but still more interesting that heads/tails.

    Head and tails and drawing Rock/Rock are the same. But this is not traditional RPS, but the version where ine shows his hands, and the other next. Guss who wins most often.

    The turn meter pools allowed some RNG in batches and still synergy across batches. Poe WAS a bit boring because he was the only viable Tank. Now it's almost all infrantry and some innovator use all Cavaldry (heavy AoE).

    It's opinion. I think if you are thilled now that's great really. Poe needed other tanks or a little (not that much) nerf. The abikity to see any team just made it even more PRS "show your hand first".

    I wish I could select 4 DEFENSE variants and thebgane pick up one randomly. After all, the attacker needs some challenge for the game to be fun. Right now that is gone.

    I agree so much with your argument that showing the teams takes a large part of the supposed RPS out of the game. It's almost comical to think that one can sit down and admire the enemy team (down to their individual speed if we're talking about non-maxed characters. Which ironically is the only place you might have variety in something like stats) and craft a careful counter comp. I don't know about you guys, but I find that almost sad, that we consider this hard counter-comping variety. Because there's two things about this that I'm fairly certain of. One, that the counter-comp is probably one of like four team combinations that player uses anyway. And two, that the player will switch to a defensive line asap (making the counter-comp's life in the bracket last approximately 5 minutes).
  • Options
    Fabzorz wrote: »
    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.

    This doesn't come off as boring?

    No - absolutely not - because it's not easy developing a good rock, a good paper, or a good scissor. Acquiring that rock, building it, strengthening it, and then watching it do it's job against the scissor...that's the beauty. That's accomplishment. That't the payoff. What's the payoff in winning 50/50 Poe flips? Why is that exciting?

    What Poe presented was a luck based game that didn't depend on anything really that the player did in the match, in selecting their heroes, or building their roster....which is what this game is about. Why dumb down the game to <10 viable units that all pivot around Poe when we have so many toons? Essentially the game was get Poe, throw in some decent units, hope you win the flip...and then advance. Now that is boring...and that's why many were demanding that Poe get nerfed.
  • Options
    Fabzorz wrote: »
    @CookieCrispp - I'm not being optimistic, I'm going on actual matches since the change. I use tankier builds every day in PVP to defeat high speed / damage configs with Jinn / Rey / GS / Sid, etc. I have a high damage / speed team of my own...and also healer teams.

    Once you build up more of the roster, you'll appreciate being able to see the enemy squad, pick your heroes that you built to counter that squad, and then defeat it with a smart matchup. That's what lies ahead now, rather than people having 1 or two iterations of Poe builds and having at each other in 50/50 RNG rolls...and hoping that their Jinn survived and was successfully able to dispel Poe's taunt in the second turn.

    This doesn't come off as boring?

    No - absolutely not - because it's not easy developing a good rock, a good paper, or a good scissor. Acquiring that rock, building it, strengthening it, and then watching it do it's job against the scissor...that's the beauty. That's accomplishment. That't the payoff. What's the payoff in winning 50/50 Poe flips? Why is that exciting?

    What Poe presented was a luck based game that didn't depend on anything really that the player did in the match, in selecting their heroes, or building their roster....which is what this game is about. Why dumb down the game to <10 viable units that all pivot around Poe when we have so many toons? Essentially the game was get Poe, throw in some decent units, hope you win the flip...and then advance. Now that is boring...and that's why many were demanding that Poe get nerfed.

    I'll agree that developing teams is enjoyable. And I'll agree that Poe coin flips are not. However, I'm arguing that I enjoyed the mechanics of the old system, the need to adapt to a changing environment and the need to adjust as things happen, more than I enjoy the current system. I feel that the current system is just as, if not more, stale than the old system. With this current one, I know who will go when, and I know what will happen (for the most part) before it does. Does that make me a prophet? No. It makes me a player who can rationally reason out what the AI will do based on its simplistic priorities and who can look up/remember speed numbers. There is very little adaptation to winning at this point. I guess you could argue that there was very little before, however I enjoyed the base system that it ran on. The idea that multiple toons had the same speed tier, that speed wasn't the be all end all stat past a certain breakpoint. This entire thing isn't about Poe, it's about the old system.

    The problem is, right now, I'm not seeing your rock as being something that any other player will see. The current state of arena is a sea full of scissors with a bunch of people sharpening their rocks. And as soon as their rock dulls a scissors, they swap to their own scissors and leave it there. Because even though the rock can win against scissors, it is much less effective when controlled by the AI. And since I personally do not think we will see massive AI improvements, I realized I enjoy the randomness that gave the AI the only chance it ever had against us. And that I enjoy the randomness that was tiered speed. Because right now arena feels like scripted fights. "You go. Ok, now I go. Ok, now I go again. Ok, now you would go, but you're dead, so now I go". etc, etc.
  • Options
    [/quote]

    Because there's two things about this that I'm fairly certain of. One, that the counter-comp is probably one of like four team combinations that player uses anyway. And two, that the player will switch to a defensive line asap (making the counter-comp's life in the bracket last approximately 5 minutes).[/quote]

    This all depends on what other people have on their roster though. I've left non-Poe, non-speed dominant teams in my D slot overnight and not fallen out of the top 20.

    The RPS is also just an analogy - a simple one - there's many variations of each just by tweaking a few toons in the lineup. Daka for example, she's a wildcard in any lineup. There's also still RNG in the fight - you can't face these fast heavy damage / assisting teams and win 100% of the time. There are also some synergy teams emerging that can do well, Rebels comps for example can be pretty impressive. There's a guy on our server doing well with Ewok based squads.

    After the speed change, there are many more viable options and team comps to win in arena. I don't see how that can possibly be seen as a bad thing.
  • Options
    This all depends on what other people have on their roster though. I've left non-Poe, non-speed dominant teams in my D slot overnight and not fallen out of the top 20.

    The RPS is also just an analogy - a simple one - there's many variations of each just by tweaking a few toons in the lineup. Daka for example, she's a wildcard in any lineup. There's also still RNG in the fight - you can't face these fast heavy damage / assisting teams and win 100% of the time. There are also some synergy teams emerging that can do well, Rebels comps for example can be pretty impressive. There's a guy on our server doing well with Ewok based squads.

    After the speed change, there are many more viable options and team comps to win in arena. I don't see how that can possibly be seen as a bad thing.

    You're not wrong, I'll agree that non-speed dominant comps can survive. I'm sure that they can even thrive. But I also believe that there are additional factors, especially regarding your example. There are certain ranks for instance, (especially in the top 20) that are avoided or that people don't tend to snipe. The RNG aspects of the game are great, I just dislike how scripted the last week's arena has felt. Prior to this, I have walked into these fights not knowing (knowing, not just guessing, but knowing) how the fight would turn out. I trusted to my human logic and team comp that I could and would win, but I didn't know. Now I'm beyond confident when facing teams, both because I can see the comp (an issue for a different day, I assure you), and because I know exactly when toons will move. And it's that certainty that takes away from my enjoyment. I'll agree that pre-speed change Poe could (and usually did) reduce top tier comps to a coin flip, however my statement isn't about Poe, it's about their tier system and breakpoints. Those I did enjoy.
  • Options
    This might depend on what's on your server and who you fight. I see enough variety to keep things pretty fresh....way more variety than the Poe meta. I hear what you are saying - if you said ... I enjoyed the old speed bands - but before Poe - than what we have now ... I'd get that. If you're seeing lots of clone squads, that would feel very scripted. I can see that being an issue.

    I'm just comparing to what we had for the nearly 2 months prior to that - where it was Poe flips and very little squad variety, and really enjoying the different teams it has brought out in D slots and how I'm able to use more of my own roster.
  • Options
    This all depends on what other people have on their roster though. I've left non-Poe, non-speed dominant teams in my D slot overnight and not fallen out of the top 20.

    The RPS is also just an analogy - a simple one - there's many variations of each just by tweaking a few toons in the lineup. Daka for example, she's a wildcard in any lineup. There's also still RNG in the fight - you can't face these fast heavy damage / assisting teams and win 100% of the time. There are also some synergy teams emerging that can do well, Rebels comps for example can be pretty impressive. There's a guy on our server doing well with Ewok based squads.

    After the speed change, there are many more viable options and team comps to win in arena. I don't see how that can possibly be seen as a bad thing.

    You're not wrong, I'll agree that non-speed dominant comps can survive. I'm sure that they can even thrive. But I also believe that there are additional factors, especially regarding your example. There are certain ranks for instance, (especially in the top 20) that are avoided or that people don't tend to snipe. The RNG aspects of the game are great, I just dislike how scripted the last week's arena has felt. Prior to this, I have walked into these fights not knowing (knowing, not just guessing, but knowing) how the fight would turn out. I trusted to my human logic and team comp that I could and would win, but I didn't know. Now I'm beyond confident when facing teams, both because I can see the comp (an issue for a different day, I assure you), and because I know exactly when toons will move. And it's that certainty that takes away from my enjoyment. I'll agree that pre-speed change Poe could (and usually did) reduce top tier comps to a coin flip, however my statement isn't about Poe, it's about their tier system and breakpoints. Those I did enjoy.

    I would have preferred the old speed bands if they were at least weighted to favor the faster hero in that turn band. You increase the RNG that way vs. the current setup, but it gives some advantage to the faster hero. I just had an issue with Dooku having significantly more speed than Poe or Rey for example, but being no more than 50/50 to move against them. That made the actual speed statistic, and how specific it was, pretty silly. The speed rating should have been like, 1/2/3/4/5, etc in that old setup. Not very specific numbers.

  • Options
    Yes they could have been weighted. Anither sokution is to randomize char speed +\- 10% with a bell curve. The current model is too kinear. Like watching the same movie over and over.
  • Options
    I liked the version of A New Hope where han shot first and there weren't any goofy CG "corrections". You have about the same chance getting the old speed system back as I do getting a Bluray disc of the 1977 theatrical release. just move forward with your life pal. :#

    It's coming....
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