How should Vader be reworked ?

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Why not having a community debate about how we would like to see his kit ? It seems devs are wanting to rework him since we could see on Ahnald101 video about TB that he inflicted a new debuff on Han Solo.

I think he's a great toon even now but he is unfinished as the real Darth Vader he should be. First of all, he lacks anti-synergy against rebels. This is what missing in his kit. Then, he's not as powerful as he should be since he's not offering to his squad real synergy. They can only remove TM and their DoTs get infinite but that doesn't bring something to the squad. In fact we could even say that the squad is extremely limited around him and few chars are truly synergizing with him (Sidious and DN). The other are not applying DoTs which is a major issue in this squad. Boba is a great add but he's not an Empire chars so he will not benefit from the TM removal.

What I would do is reworking all his kit and adding 2 Uniques.

Terrifying Swing : Same as now but 50% to inflict DoT, unavoidable and unresistable on Rebels.

Force Crush : nothing to change since I planed to bring something new on Culling Blade.

Culling Blade : Add a bonus effect if target has any buffs : gain 5% TM for each buffs on the target. On a finishing blow grant Despicable Hate.
Despicable Hate : after using any ability grant 100%. While Darth Vader is under this buff, gain 20% offense and stun the target enemy. Consume Despicable Hate after the first ability used by Darth Vader while under this buff.

First Unique :
Rebels Undoing : Each time a rebel enemy gain a buff, call an ally to assist, counter attack or attack any Empire ally, they gain one damage over time effect for 2 turns.
Zeta : Empire allies gain 1%TM per DoTs on ennemies at the end of their turn.

I choose it only applies on Empire since Darth Sidious would gain a huge advantage on Rancor Raid and in Arena with such a possibility of TM gain. It would mean he could gain 100% TM at some point under a zVader lead. It also exclude Boba which would again reduce the possibility of massive TM gain. On the other hand, it would allow TFP to play quite a lot for instance, even though he can't apply DoTs. The main issue I found with this is about TFP gaining constantly 100% TM considering his ability would also help him gain 35% TM. Maybe then, a limitation of DoTs could be done, as well as all buffs and debuffs that stacks ?

Second Unique :
Powerful Hatred : Whenever Darth Vader score a debuff on an already debuffed target, grant them Force Wounds. This effect cannot be resisted or dispelled and last until the target next end of turn.
Force Wounds : Any unit affected by this effect loose 15 speed, 15% damage and reduce their max Health by 15%.
Zeta : This effect is doubled on Light Side characters.

This is a sort of a new debuff but it doesn't last forever. The goal here is to create a breach that could be exploited with a nice burst but that would also be cured by TM gain or speed.

Let me now what are your impression about it, what would you change, etc... or share any ideas on what you would do and why.

Replies

  • ExarTheKun wrote: »
    I don't think Empire needs more damage. What they need is TM gain or survivability. If he got a passive, it should be anti-crit. Something like GK or Barriss.

    I do agree and that's why it wasn't the main purpose. Actually the main purpose was to increase damage of Darth Vader on his basic/ 2nd special if he finish someone with Culling Blade (that part is about damaging).
    But the other one is more about gaining TM than damage. Yes, enemies gain 1 dot but this dot purpose is the same as the one on the basic, giving TM.

    The second unique debuff is about protecting your team against this risk so Vader don't kill one of your chars. Not that many chars can do high damage to kill someone. DN have a instakill but he would kill anyone without any consideration. The other two are Boba and DV. DV only benefit from debuffs and not from buffs, which his why I grant him this TM gain on this ability.
  • AlexTheG
    179 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Vader killed Palpatine. Thetefore he should get reworked as a Rebel.

    More seriously, a Force Choke would be cool. He definitely needs to get bonus damage against Rebels. Or buff removal.
  • All he needs is a force choke and a unique in my opinion. In fact his unique could be force choke on any opponent when they attack out of turn. That would help counter current meta and make him last in the coming resistance etc without making him OP
    Two Time Golden Poo Award Winner
  • All he needs is a force choke and a unique in my opinion. In fact his unique could be force choke on any opponent when they attack out of turn. That would help counter current meta and make him last in the coming resistance etc without making him OP

    I don't want him to be "good against the current meta", I want him to be better everywhere. Further more, why would it be only when people play out of turn ?
    I think he must be played as a protector against rebels. He should be feared because of what he can possibly do if you're underestimating him or if you let him place his game. That's what I tried to represent when I made those ideas of him and his kit.
  • AlexTheG wrote: »
    Vader killed Palpatine. Thetefore he should get reworked as a Rebel.

    More seriously, a Force Choke would be cool. He definitely needs to get bonus damage against Rebels. Or buff removal.

    Yes, he should be Jedi and Rebel and LS, that a good rework IMO and make him pretty viable everywhere, even in TB !
  • Force Choke for sure, it's his iconic move and a surprise it's not part of his kit.
  • I always interpreted force crush as force choke, except just not limited to the throat.

    If you were going to give him another ability give him something with his lightsaber, like the heavy cleaves he performes when he surprises luke on bespin

    Personally think using dots for turn meter gain is a touch convoluted in approach and tenacity up makes vader useless, vader has no versatility in this scenario.
    I like the idea of if vader or palps is damage he gains 25% turnmeter (50 if both), zeta doubling this. With stack of 20% offence with max of 5 stacks.
    Would be quite a nice way to speed vader up a bit

    On force choke, give vade the chance to dispel, damage doubled if no buffs.

    That being said id prefer a new debuff, something to really give people to fear vader, rather than 3 useless dots (outside pit that is, and even then i dont care much)

    On vaders basic, if they already have ability block then maybe inflict stun

    culling blade, i admitedly like your improvement here
  • Even they finally decided to rework vader, they definitely would like to release a new version vader, maybe rogue one version, because most of us already got a 7* g11 vader. If cg just rework the original vader, which means they just give all players free op character, I don't think they would do this . If they do, don't hope the reworked vader will be as op as CLS.
  • ExarTheKun
    2667 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Hmm..

    Presence of the Dark Lord-Unique
    Empire and Sith allies gain 2.5% TM and 2.5% offense/defense (stacking up to 100%) whenever a Sith or Empire detrimental effect is resisted, until Darth Vader is defeated. Whenever a Sith ally is defeated, all Sith allies gain the unique buff "The Force Shall Free Me," until they are defeated (Darth Vader must be present).

    The Force Shall Free Me
    The percent effects of "Presence of the Dark Lord" are doubled (retroactive to previous offense/defense stacks). Can't be dispelled or prevented.

    I like how tanky Vader is, but he doesn't have a place in most teams outside of his leadership ability. I wanted to utilize his high health/protection pool without making him a taunter. This idea makes him a soft tank, heavy support. This is aimed directly at high tenacity and tenacity up buffs. Would be very effective in raids as well (I think). Perhaps too effective. Percentages would likely need tweaking.
  • What about "I am your father" unique CLS is stunned for 5 turns.
  • "Righteous Fury": inflicts health down on Rebel enemies and gains 10% turn meter for each Rebel opponent for 3 rounds.
  • Give him Force Choke and the ability to chop off CLS' hand.
  • Honestly I think his lead is amazing but it shouldn't totally be a Unique. The offense and TM removal are, but the part about dots should be on a unique to give him utility outside from his lead.
  • I think they would be more likely to come out with a second Vader than rework the first.
  • I think he force choked more of his own people than enemies. So maybe everytime he uses it on an enemy, equal damage is done to an ally. Target ally of course :smiley:
  • HoagieRoll
    4 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Deflection-Darth Vader taunts and deflects all incoming blaster fire on him for 2 turns to a random enemy. For every deflection performed, he gains 10% turn meter, while all Imperial allies gain 5% turn meter.
    Lightsaber and melee attacks on Darth Vader do 50% less damage while deflection buff is active.

    zeta-Enemy targets receiving deflected fire lose 10% turn meter, and have 15% chance to be dazed for 1 turn (daze chance doubled on Rebel enemies)
  • All I'm gonna say is he needs to be as cool as he is in that last scene in Rogue One
    A unfeeling slaughtering unstoppable bad boy
  • Sapient2k7 wrote: »
    What about "I am your father" unique CLS is stunned for 5 turns.

    LOL
  • Piercen wrote: »
    All I'm gonna say is he needs to be as cool as he is in that last scene in Rogue One
    A unfeeling slaughtering unstoppable bad boy

    Truth. So many feels in that last five minutes. No lie, I would've cried when I saw the red lightsaber light up. Don't know how that man with the schematics held it together.
  • BrtStlnd
    1092 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    ExarTheKun wrote: »
    Piercen wrote: »
    All I'm gonna say is he needs to be as cool as he is in that last scene in Rogue One
    A unfeeling slaughtering unstoppable bad boy

    Truth. So many feels in that last five minutes. No lie, I would've cried when I saw the red lightsaber light up. Don't know how that man with the schematics held it together.

    I got goosebumps during that scene. The terror from the guys in that corridor was visceral. They all knew they didn’t have a chance to survive an encounter with him.

    I would love to see him have a unique with a chance to deflect blasters.
  • What Vader needs, imo, is some counter to cleanse and tenacity up. Basically those two things gimps him on offense.

    Maybe make force crush cleanse tenacity up, replacing it with tenacity down.

    Maybe add a debuff to force crush that does significant damage it it's cleansed, or maybe gives buffs/tm to Vader or his team.
  • His basic needs to do real damage AND new ability, force choke which is an insta-kill that has the same mechanics as DN(starts on cool down)
  • HoagieRoll wrote: »
    Deflection-Darth Vader taunts and deflects all incoming blaster fire on him for 2 turns to a random enemy. For every deflection performed, he gains 10% turn meter, while all Imperial allies gain 5% turn meter.
    Lightsaber and melee attacks on Darth Vader do 50% less damage while deflection buff is active.

    zeta-Enemy targets receiving deflected fire lose 10% turn meter, and have 15% chance to be dazed for 1 turn (daze chance doubled on Rebel enemies)

    This is a great idea! Very cool. +1!
  • I'd like even more continuity from JKA like basic would also apply heal+buff immunity and rebel/jedi could not evade/resist. Also dmg buff, 9k non-crit for sure ;D.

    Unique. DOT reapply should be unique. Maybe even TMR (could make OP but so is CLS and all rebel scums). TM gain when enemy or foe defeated, dispells all debuffs from Vader, reset cooldown on force choke, added damage on next attack etc. If enemy evades or resist debuff/dot would give offence stacking up and TM. Making him more benefical to use under Tarkin, Thrawn or even Saxon lead.

    Or something like that, keeping him as a "dont you dare to ignore me" tank. Actually new Han and Chewie has some abilities I was thinking for Vader before their release. Vader should be one that you want to attack but who you dont want to attack.

  • All he needs is for his leader to be turned into a unique. Any toon without a unique nowadays are nearly useless. This would make him viable in an empire team
  • Okay... Vader is still one my favorite zetas... mostly because he is fun, but with decreased viability in the arena may i introduce an idea for Lord Vader to be the first hero to have 2 zetas on his leadership ability? Simply because his kit is already great, it just needs a small tweak. Something to fully utilize the permadots and what better than his leadership.

    Inspiring through fear 2nd Zeta - All imperial allies counter when attacked by jedi or rebel enemies and inflict a DOT (no resist) if that enemy has any buff while Vader is alive. All sith allies counter when attacked by any light side enemy and inflict a DOT (no resist) against debuffed enemies and gain 20% tm against enemies that are buffed while Vader is alive.
    In addition Lord Vader gains +100% defense per imperial ally and +25% maximum HP for each sith ally.

    Lord Vader was not only feared as a leader but also respected because he led the troops himself... thus he became legend among the stormtroopers and enemies alike.
  • I hate sand anger strike
  • Dark Anakin

    3461234-anakin-skywalker-force-choke.jpg

    Two attacks on basic. +1 if the enemy is debuffed. +1 attack if the enemy is a Jedi. +1 if the enemy is Galactic Republic. +10 if the enemy is a child (heyoh!). So maximum of 5 attacks against a debuffed GK, for example.

    Special 'sweeping strike' aoe attack - guaranteed daze on main target, chance for stagger on everybody else.

    Force drain ability. 20% HP damage (basically an expose) vs enemy and gain twice that amount in protection.

    Synergy with Emperor Palpatine. If both are in the group, each gains 25% max HP. IF DA is alive, he takes 25% of all damage directed at Palp, and EP takes 50% damage. Yes, they only take 75% total damage between the two of them. If EP is alive, DA does 25% more damage.
  • Dark Anakin

    Two attacks on basic. +1 if the enemy is debuffed. +1 attack if the enemy is a Jedi. +1 if the enemy is Galactic Republic. +10 if the enemy is a child (heyoh!). So maximum of 5 attacks against a debuffed GK, for example.

    bring in child Anakin and have him slaughter himself
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