Let's talk New Player Experience

Replies

  • This isn't about feelings of elitism or entitlement, it is about retaining new players.



    Funny. Might want to re-calibrate your irony meter. You're the one who wants new players advancing at a faster rate than anyone before them. Why? Because it's unfair? Too much work? Sorry, I find that ridiculous. And not only because it would be unfair to everyone who's ever played this game until now - doing what you ask would cheapen the game for the new player.

    The idea of being rewarded the same for less work than someone else isn't noble or helpful to anyone. Video games are entertainment but they can also teach people about patience, sacrifice, setting long-term goals, etc.

    If new players don't want to commit long-term, fine. I understand that and won't belittle anyone who decides it's not for them - not just this game but for anything. We all don't want the same things in life, we all have different priorities.

  • Bjorne_Fellhanded
    306 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    I've often that the amount of new content would be majorly overwhelming to a new player. I'd love the time to start an alt account, just to experience everything again.
    On a related note, in an interview, @CG_JohnSalera said he creates a new account and plays them FTP up to level 85 on a regular basis.

    Kittens. Very cute kittens.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • JaggedJ wrote: »
    DarthSalsa wrote: »
    F2P new player rute
    1-farm pheonix(hera,zeb,chopper,kannan and sabine)
    2-farm st han for arena old ben cantina, **** gw, boba cantina store
    3-farm 2 empire vader palpatine thraw are free you need 2 more
    4- farm ships

    I really don't get the "farm phoenix first" route. I realise it's for Thrawn (and to a lesser extent Palp) but imo there's more pressing matters for a new f2p player than just getting thrawn.

    Ezra would be in my top 10 early farm characters for f2p but not the other phoenix.

    Phoenix is a good starter team because they have amazing synergy, that do well in arena, GW and Lightside or Cantina battles. And they let you unlock Thrawn and Palpatine, as well as giving you already two characters for Yoda. So you cover up the requirements for 2 Legendary Toons completely plus 1 with almost the half. And that's only five to six characters you have to farm. They do not perform that good on mature shards, so you do not see them there in the high ranks of arena. But some weeks ago I started an alt account, and Phoenix is seen pretty often on that arena shard. So I think it is safe to say that Phoenix is a good way to go for new players.

    True and they are needed in TB missions also so you got that covered too. Phoenix is a must at the moment, you just unlock so much By investing in them. Phoenix is the way to the dark side.
  • That and that new characters can easily cost 500€+ to fully star and gear up. That might not even make the character good, even bad ones cost alot of money. So why would you spend that much money on one character when you know it can be obsolete just after few months and might not ever be useful after that. Except being puching bag in GW or Arena.

    I also play LoL and Warframe alot and invested money on those cause I know that what I buy will be usuful for years to come. In this game paywall is too big for something so little.
  • I tried starting alt accounts twice. Twice I stopped them because of lack of Sims. Starting a new account and battling in the low energy battles over and over again to use all your energy got boring very fast.

    I have same problem now at level 85. Lack of Sims and it's annoying. Still not happy they nerfed sim drops awhile ago without informing players
  • To all the people who say that they should have an advantage because they have played longer, I say that their advantage should be in skill, not basic capabilities. That is the way it is in most games throughout history. Card games, board games, sports... the difference between newcomers and old timers is skill. The Yankees don't get to play with a bigger roster than the other team, why should you.

    This is a collection game. It's not remotely comparable to baseball. There's hardly any skill involved, and if progress wasn't gated there would be no game. Everybody has to go through the grind of building up characters no matter when he starts. This type of game isn't for everybody. New players who want to start and have all the most powerful things immediately may have just picked the wrong game.
  • lisztophobia
    808 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Liath wrote: »
    To all the people who say that they should have an advantage because they have played longer, I say that their advantage should be in skill, not basic capabilities. That is the way it is in most games throughout history. Card games, board games, sports... the difference between newcomers and old timers is skill. The Yankees don't get to play with a bigger roster than the other team, why should you.

    This is a collection game. It's not remotely comparable to baseball. There's hardly any skill involved, and if progress wasn't gated there would be no game. Everybody has to go through the grind of building up characters no matter when he starts. This type of game isn't for everybody. New players who want to start and have all the most powerful things immediately may have just picked the wrong game.
    There was a guy in this thread saying that no online videogame should ever allow a newbie to beat a veteran. That's crazy! Some people nowadays are so narrowly focused on the RPG grindfest noobslayer mindset that the accumulation of permanent mechanical advantage is like the limit of their imagination for what a game can be or should be anymore.

    Personally I can enjoy this type of game and it doesn't particularly bother me if some of the lower level grind is alleviated, considering the ever increasing number of objects and activities that everyone is being pressured to pursue simultaneously. Platoons alone are a big enough new roadblock that it has me thinking "yeah go ahead and give newbies a break."
  • Excellent points made in this thread, i and my guild and many many others can relate nearly every point @OP makes and many more brought up by others... as a player from launch, i've stuck with you EA/CG through the good & bad...and voiced not only my opinions but the opinions of those in my guild... the new players just able to join guilds, the ones who stoped playing for awhile then rejoined, only to need a new guild, those that simply cannot devote the time to stay competive every single day 24/7. Those who need a steping stone to larger guilds. Those kicked from other guilds... and last but not least the players who just want to play a fun game... not get tangled up in the ridiculous rules of mega guilds that resemble Czerka Corporation indentured servitude more than a game thats fun.

    As this 3rd TB winds down i ask myself whats the point? The rewards despite the mystery box "upgrade" help me out little, the player who trys to integrate others, i've had many guild members grow enough to move on to larger guilds. That hurts to see my younglings move on but its inevitable because the guild rewards favor large 50/50 capped player guilds (as they should) and thats what I DO... help others grow... but i was able to weather it through 1st & 2nd TB ... because the guild system was somewhat balanced in the fact that caped veteran players like myself could still help low lv players, albiet at a major disadvantage... and still manage to stay competive with other high lv players... but that time has past...

    @CG_Kozispoon @CG_SaIera @CG_Conduit23 @CG_RyDiggs @CG_Carrie and anyone else at EA/CG who cares about the future of this game...(and im including you via @ because i do care about you guys too)... please i implore you to keep reading.

    As a veteran player from game launch, i can no longer maintain my position to help new members and grow myself... if i do... I grow more stagnant than i have already by helping others...
    Removal of the gear from fleet store has been the final nail, i thought maybe the shard shop gear would equal out, but the selection there is sub par... not even close to the same... it may help non lv caped players but not me. The only way for me to get raid gear outside of raids is gone... and with that, my ability to help other players lower than me.

    I feel like you've put me in a scenario from a SAW movie, where in order to live, i must do something that results in an innocent dying.

    I am not complaining... i am pleading...
    @CG_Kozispoon @CG_JohnSalera @CG_RyDiggs @CG_Carrie

    What am i to do? If you cannot provide the means for the players who have been with you and backed you every step of this games journey, to maintain a GP diverse guild that is focused on providing sanctuary to new players that are less motivated and intimidated by the rules & regulations of mega guild corporations, what option do i have?

    I not rich, but i spent way more than i should have on the game, but no longer... as i see no future in it, or even spending the increasingly excessive amount of time playing through GW/TB (sims) if my livelihood is determined solely by wether i join a mega guild and sell my lower level guildies to the mega guild corporations as slaves (in there lower guild counterpart)... in order to get enough TB coins to buy gear now that its all consolidated in the TB market.

    Last thing and the most important @CG_devs

    You do realize that by disincentivizeing single guilds of varing GP levels and essentially FORCING them them to join mega guild corporations you give those mega guild/corps. more and more power over you? Eventually they will dictate more & more demands with more & more authority and the days of unfocused random banter in these forums will seem like the good ole days, back when you still had independent guilds that just wanted to play for fun.


  • i do agree about tutorial - its bad. and when its over, you still have no idea what to do. i watched youtube to find out more, it was about a year ago. at the begginig, during tutorial i almost deleted this game. i believe i wouldnt be here, if there wouldnt be warriors tutorial for beginners.
    sorry english is not my main langauge, but i hope you undersood me
  • The problem is not that if levelling up to lv85 was hard. The game is quite easy at the mid 70s.
    The hard part comes when one hits lv80, because one needs to compete with other lv85s who are well developed.
    A 'newby' lv85 has absolutely no chance to beat an advanced lv85.
    And newby85 players will end up fighting in the top 1000 to survive and will have hard time to participate in the newest legendaries and other events.

    So, the problem is that even if you reach lv85, you have done nothing, you still have about 85% of the content unaccesable or hardly accessable and you will have to rely on your heavyweight guildmates to help you getting better guild rewards.
  • I always worry that CG keeps making the mountain taller. Older players need more mountain to climb, but Cg should keep the mountain the same size for newer players, otherwise you risk building a game so intimidating to new hardcore players that they give up before the cement dries.
  • It amazes me that this far into the game's life there are still so many people who are fundamentally clueless about hiw Arena works.

    It's been said a dozen times here: New players never compete against veteran players. The disparity exists--which is why they're separated from one another.

    Calm yourselves, people.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    It amazes me that this far into the game's life there are still so many people who are fundamentally clueless about hiw Arena works.

    It's been said a dozen times here: New players never compete against veteran players. The disparity exists--which is why they're separated from one another.

    Calm yourselves, people.
    The upper limits of Galactic War are still kind of a disaster tho.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    It amazes me that this far into the game's life there are still so many people who are fundamentally clueless about hiw Arena works.

    It's been said a dozen times here: New players never compete against veteran players. The disparity exists--which is why they're separated from one another.

    Calm yourselves, people.
    The upper limits of Galactic War are still kind of a disaster tho.

    They're not playing against that yet, though.

    More importantly, the upper limits of GW can be easily avoided by working on multiple teams, but all the guides new players read ignore this and give them advice that actively makes GW worse. It's 100% a self-inflicted problem.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    It amazes me that this far into the game's life there are still so many people who are fundamentally clueless about hiw Arena works.

    It's been said a dozen times here: New players never compete against veteran players. The disparity exists--which is why they're separated from one another.

    Calm yourselves, people.
    The upper limits of Galactic War are still kind of a disaster tho.

    They're not playing against that yet, though.

    More importantly, the upper limits of GW can be easily avoided by working on multiple teams, but all the guides new players read ignore this and give them advice that actively makes GW worse. It's 100% a self-inflicted problem.
    And jealousy over raid loot!
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    The problem is not that if levelling up to lv85 was hard. The game is quite easy at the mid 70s.
    The hard part comes when one hits lv80, because one needs to compete with other lv85s who are well developed.
    A 'newby' lv85 has absolutely no chance to beat an advanced lv85.
    And newby85 players will end up fighting in the top 1000 to survive and will have hard time to participate in the newest legendaries and other events.

    So, the problem is that even if you reach lv85, you have done nothing, you still have about 85% of the content unaccesable or hardly accessable and you will have to rely on your heavyweight guildmates to help you getting better guild rewards.

    Beat them at WHAT? New level 85 players aren't in arena shards with established level 85 players. They are in the same arena shards they were in from the very beginning, with the same people that started at the same time they did.

    Saying 85% of content is not accessible to somebody who just reached level 85 is crazy.
    Viserys wrote: »
    I always worry that CG keeps making the mountain taller. Older players need more mountain to climb, but Cg should keep the mountain the same size for newer players, otherwise you risk building a game so intimidating to new hardcore players that they give up before the cement dries.

    How exactly do you propose that they make the mountain taller for existing players and keep it the same size for new players? They can ease up on some of the things that made life difficult early on (and they have!!) but there's no way to keep long term players invested and give them enough interesting and challenging things to do without also increasing the total amount of stuff there is to reach for when you first start playing.

    But, I don't really see why that's a bad thing either. If you like the game, then having a bigger game to work within and more things to strive for should be better. A growing game makes you feel like you will never run out of things to do. Do people really want to be able to accomplish everything in a couple of months?
  • New players compete against new players in their own shard.
  • WildMango wrote: »
    New players compete against new players in their own shard.

    Big assumption... noone knows shard mechanics and how often a new one starts... right now it could be every six months a new one is created... people starting on shard opening would have a massive adv to those joining at the end
  • WildMango wrote: »
    New players compete against new players in their own shard.

    They compete against old players for a spot on a guild, that's the only thing I can think of.
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
  • CoastalJames
    2971 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    I'm a new player. About 4 months, level 82 and f2p.

    The game is a tough, long, complex grind for sure.

    If you're not going to be able to tolerate that, or don't want to, then no problem - don't play.

    If it is how you want to spend your time though, and it's a rich, rewarding and immersive experience, then get stuck in.


    Simple I think.

    Life's too short to spend time doing things you don't want to do. And on the flipside of that - good experiences always require effort and investment.

    Post edited by CoastalJames on
  • Liath wrote: »
    This is a collection game. It's not remotely comparable to baseball. There's hardly any skill involved, and if progress wasn't gated there would be no game. Everybody has to go through the grind of building up characters no matter when he starts. This type of game isn't for everybody. New players who want to start and have all the most powerful things immediately may have just picked the wrong game.

    Exactly. The game is almost 2 years old now. It's a leveling/collection game. If someone wants to jump in 2 years later, then they'll need to put in the work to catch up.
  • It takes a year or more to level up. That is a long time to pay your dues.

    Welcome to the slog. If you don't want to devote your time for the long haul, don't play the game. Explain to everyone who started 1-1.5 years ago why you deserve to advance at a faster rate than we did?

    Because at one point getting an end game roster consisted of a lower level cap, lower gear levels, less characters, and mods didn't exist. Older players had a lot less farming to be "end game" 1.5 years ago.
  • It takes a year or more to level up. That is a long time to pay your dues.

    Welcome to the slog. If you don't want to devote your time for the long haul, don't play the game. Explain to everyone who started 1-1.5 years ago why you deserve to advance at a faster rate than we did?

    Because at one point getting an end game roster consisted of a lower level cap, lower gear levels, less characters, and mods didn't exist. Older players had a lot less farming to be "end game" 1.5 years ago.

    So wait.....you like the game so much, you want it to be over?

    Sorry, I just don't get that sentiment. For me, that would mean that I picked a game I can play for a good long time. Yet you seem to suggest that the goal of playing is to be done....so you don't play anymore. :|
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Older players had a lot less farming to be "end game" 1.5 years ago.

    And?


    Thems the breaks.

  • lisztophobia
    808 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    It takes a year or more to level up. That is a long time to pay your dues.

    Welcome to the slog. If you don't want to devote your time for the long haul, don't play the game. Explain to everyone who started 1-1.5 years ago why you deserve to advance at a faster rate than we did?

    Because at one point getting an end game roster consisted of a lower level cap, lower gear levels, less characters, and mods didn't exist. Older players had a lot less farming to be "end game" 1.5 years ago.

    So wait.....you like the game so much, you want it to be over?

    Sorry, I just don't get that sentiment. For me, that would mean that I picked a game I can play for a good long time. Yet you seem to suggest that the goal of playing is to be done....so you don't play anymore. :|
    When people bring up the topic of MMORPGs like World Of Warcraft streamlining the low level grind when new expansions are released, part of the reason they're bringing it up is not only that these revisions make the game "end faster" or make n00bs feel gud by showering them with participation trophies that make them the undeserving equals of the much superior veterans or whatever... but it alleviates the boredom of spending too much time in the parts of the game that have been determined in retrospect to be, well, boring. Sometimes they're just trying to make the game better by shortening the boring parts and letting people get to the engaging parts sooner.

    Whether to make such changes is up to the developers, as part of their mission to attract and retain new players. They don't need veteran players to appoint themselves gatekeepers of whatever prestige surrounds the grind, telling newer players "You won't get that faster than I did, you won't do that faster than I did, because I will be insulted. Do it my way or go away!" The veteran player who fancies himself having that kind of authority is way out of line, and a detriment to the game since he pushes potential customers away with his strident, boorish attitude toward new players.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member

    Whether to make such changes is up to the developers, as part of their mission to attract and retain new players. They don't need veteran players to appoint themselves gatekeepers of whatever prestige surrounds the grind, telling newer players "You won't get that faster than I did, you won't do that faster than I did, because I will be insulted. Do it my way or go away!" The veteran player who fancies himself having that kind of authority is way out of line, and a detriment to the business model since he pushes potential customers away from the game with his strident, boorish attitude toward new players.

    Do the developers need players to demand that things move faster than they do? Feedback from players is feedback from players, whichever side it comes from. I don't see why it's ok for the OP to ask the developers to change things in favor of new players but somehow not ok for other people to chime in with the opposite perspective.
  • WildMango wrote: »
    New players compete against new players in their own shard.

    They compete against old players for a spot on a guild, that's the only thing I can think of.

    There is so much content a newcomer doesn't have access to. TB has a lvl 65 requirement, but phase 1 can be easily experienced by a lvl 40 player. Too many events require a certain lvl (75 for example). No access to established guilds who raid more often.
    The game doesn't grow as fast as 1 - 1,5 years ago, so the arena shards generation is slower. That can be tricky sometimes.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    It takes a year or more to level up. That is a long time to pay your dues.

    Welcome to the slog. If you don't want to devote your time for the long haul, don't play the game. Explain to everyone who started 1-1.5 years ago why you deserve to advance at a faster rate than we did?

    Because at one point getting an end game roster consisted of a lower level cap, lower gear levels, less characters, and mods didn't exist. Older players had a lot less farming to be "end game" 1.5 years ago.

    So wait.....you like the game so much, you want it to be over?

    Sorry, I just don't get that sentiment. For me, that would mean that I picked a game I can play for a good long time. Yet you seem to suggest that the goal of playing is to be done....so you don't play anymore. :|

    Nah...but look at it from a new player perspective...how much fun is it? You play GW and get wrecked by multiple level capped zeta squads when you are in your 70s. That didn't happen when zeta's didn't exist, and you yourself would have been at cap a lot quicker when it was lower.

    Or how about raids? 10 minutes after hPit opens for example you got people posting 10 millions with their cls teams. That wasn't the case when raids were new.

    Or how about TB? Whats the point in locking people out of most of it for many, many months? Your best bet is to find a big guild to carry you or get garbage rewards...yeah...that's "fun."

    The whole game is pretty much designed so every time something new comes it adds to "end game." The people who get the best/most rewards are those already at "end game." The newbs who are left playing catch up pretty much permanently get the crappiest rewards in a lot of game modes. As the path to "end game" becomes longer I don't see what the issue is if they make it a little easier for new players to get rolling. I'm not saying just hand them piles of G12 gear and zetas...just shorten path for them to roll through low/mid levels, because the earlier you started playing the shorter your path was to "end game" at that time and the longer the game goes on the further and further behind new players will be...at some point its just not worth bothering.
  • lisztophobia
    808 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Liath wrote: »

    Whether to make such changes is up to the developers, as part of their mission to attract and retain new players. They don't need veteran players to appoint themselves gatekeepers of whatever prestige surrounds the grind, telling newer players "You won't get that faster than I did, you won't do that faster than I did, because I will be insulted. Do it my way or go away!" The veteran player who fancies himself having that kind of authority is way out of line, and a detriment to the business model since he pushes potential customers away from the game with his strident, boorish attitude toward new players.

    Do the developers need players to demand that things move faster than they do? Feedback from players is feedback from players, whichever side it comes from. I don't see why it's ok for the OP to ask the developers to change things in favor of new players but somehow not ok for other people to chime in with the opposite perspective.
    "I like the game the way it is" is a way of going about it that's pretty different from acting as though the discussion is a turf war over some perceived injustice (or potential injustice), which is how I see older players often behaving in the forum. Too many older players of treadmill games are extremely territorial about parts of the game they've already put behind them, to a degree that's almost sociopathic. It seems to be more about dictating what other, newer players may have or may not have; not about preserving the quality of the parts of the game they're still playing.

    Earlier post disappeared into moderation after an edit. Maybe it'll be back later, I dunno.
  • PiffGuru wrote: »
    I started in Nov 2015 and I gotta say after seeing some friends start playing way after the fact that it is MUCH easier for new players than it was for me back then.

    Tons and Tons of QoL improvements over the years, one big one I remember was back when we werent able to use sims for the daily challenges... you new people just dont know how tedious stuff was back then not to mention only 1x speed. Also the shops werent all connected.. you had to go to each section of the game to get to the respected shops.

    I see people getting actually useful characters early on when back then you were stuck with a very select few people to choose from. Hell QGJ was a P2P char for a long time being only a chromium pull, not to mention all the character reworks that make those old **** characters actually useful. Also the shard shop wasnt a thing at one point and getting extra shards of someone maxed out was just useless, so if you were a chromium buyer and you had alot of the characters already then there was a high chance that ur crystals/money would be a complete waste.

    Also people might be a little overwhelmed with the content now, but I remember a time when you would play for 10 minutes a day tops.. and were starving for more content. Didnt have the bonus energies 3 times a day, no raids, literally only GW to look forward to each day, And worse of all was that the devs would give zero insight into what was going on, we would get random ghost updates and literally have to work together as a community to figure out what was changed or added. The devs have done a great job at rectifying this to a degree, hell I remember the 1st time we really got patch notes, it was great.

    Then there was the time when the whole community had so many problems and issues that the devs were like hey, here is a thread to ask all the questions you want to know the answer to and we will come back next week with answers.. well after like 3 weeks we got answers to like 1/10th of the questions with promises of more answers to come, well... I'm still waiting on those answers lol.

    You new players got alot to look and strive forward to getting and are oblivious to the dark and bronze ages we have gone through already, just be happy to be in the iron age at this point.

    life was so hard , poor gamer .
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