Let's talk New Player Experience

Replies

  • JaggedJ wrote: »

    Can you not see what he's saying though? At no point did he say he wanted to start again and waste the progress his account has made.

    He's simply saying that he wishes things for a new player now were applicable back when he started.

    Exactly.
  • Collect every toon, 7* every toon, lvl every toon, get better in raids, gw, arena, challenges etc etc, the list is endless for new players to strive towards what they personally want to achieve. At the end of the day, it comes down to what their personal goals are.
  • JaggedJ wrote: »
    Synric wrote: »
    Could've sworn you said you would be better off. Now it sounds like you wouldn't.

    Instead of pretending you know what I said, go back and read what I actually wrote. I explained it further and it still flies over your head. It's not hard to understand.

    Having a conversation with you is pointless.

    You said "Seriously, I wish I was a new player now vs. 2015"
    So yes you did say that.

    Do us all a favor and step down from your high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.

    Can you not see what he's saying though? At no point did he say he wanted to start again and waste the progress his account has made.

    He's simply saying that he wishes things for a new player now were applicable back when he started.


    He doesn't wanna do it because it wouldn't be better for him, despite literally "seriously" posting that it would be better for him.
  • Everything you said resonates with me and my experience with new people coming to my guild...if I'm being honest and self centred...the gear issue affects me the most. I am now disheartened by the gear 12 requirements as my Arena team gets smashed, and I get less and less. Maybe my voice doesn't matter. FTP. Been here for three years, I guess maybe I'm just a taker. The encouragement and leadership I've given to guildees...who cares right? Maybe some people stayed longer and spent money because of me, but you can't measure it and nobody cares. My guild is ripped apart after two years. Shame.:(
  • Ocelotchun
    17 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    When did you start playing?

    Already said earlier in the thread, have fun just resorting to nonsense now because you realize you aren't making any good points.
    Icefen wrote: »
    This is the problem with the newer generations , they want everything with no real effort.

    Who is asking for everything with no real effort? Pretty much every farm fest game alleviates past bottlenecks when new end game bottlenecks are introduced...otherwise as time goes on the game becomes more and more pointless for new players to even bother. Do you not want to have new players stick around to keep the game alive? It should be stating the obvious at this point but if we don't have paying customers we don't have a game.
    Icefen wrote: »
    A couple of months ago I started a second account and it was way easier than my first one. In that account I´m lvl 77 with a few toons with gear 9

    A couple months in you have some garbage toons? Congrats? You can't do much in heroic raids or TB other than get carried, or join a **** guild so you can feel like you contribute more even though you'll get less rewards that way, which in return just puts you further behind the curve. Further more you probably don't even have the roster to even participate in most events, let alone actually do well enough to get rewards from them, or maybe complete them.

    Also, since TB introduced, those powerful guild are requiring over even more than 1mil gp players to join, new players are hardly to find poweful guild who wish to carry new comers now.
  • The pit has 7 tiers. New players should be joining appropriate guilds working towards beating heroic rancor. Enjoy the journey.
  • GildoMcFlay
    244 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    WildMango wrote: »
    The pit has 7 tiers. New players should be joining appropriate guilds working towards beating heroic rancor. Enjoy the journey.

    You can't even find lowbie guilds...and again...even if you could, you get worse rewards than if you just join a bigger, more powerful guild. I was in a much weaker guild than when I started, and the other thing that happens is as players get better they leave for better guilds. Its not like when Pit was introduced and everybody was trying to run heroic...now its not hard to get into a heroic pit guild so why go to a lesser one?

    If you want to play catch up, finding a gimped guild just to get a sense of achievement only slows you down...if you get low level pit rewards once a week when you could be getting heroic rewards 3x a week you are shooting yourself in the foot. What you say might sound good in theory but given the state of the game right now its completely **** to actually do.
  • WildMango
    151 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    The game is what you make of it. You'll get there eventually. Enjoy the journey.

    I remember first time getting in the 500 rank in the arena, then in the 200 and so on. Also getting teebo from the galactic war store and building my heroic rancor team. I thought it was fun, maybe things have changed now.
  • No...:) We HAD NO events!!! Also, a level cap impedes progress. You are lucky, you have no cap at 50, 70, etc. Your progress isn't stopped early on. We couldn't hit lower levels quicker because we were stopped intentionally. Put it this way, if I could start the game now and I put the same amount of time / resources in the game as I did when I started in Nov 2015, after the same amount of time (22 months at this point) I'd be in a vastly better place in terms of progress after those 22 months having started in September 2017. Reason being is early on in my playing I could have access to events, credit heists, level 85 challenges, TBs, raids ... on and on. The first 6 months of a Nov 2015 player was pretty much wasted since most / all of that didn't even exist and due to the level caps a tremendous amount of energy was wasted at prior cap levels. New players now waste no energy till they hit 85.

    No. That is simply wrong. I'm not even 6 months in and if I was playing when cap was 60 I'd have over 40 end game characters right now. Instead I have...zero? Even if you get rid of the heists...it really wouldn't matter all that much because leveling costs are extremely biased towards higher levels and mods didn't exist then. Giving up maybe 1/3-1/2 onch.

    That's one way to end an argument online - make a terribly horrible single huge rambling post that I have no idea what to do with :) There's NO debating that after 22 months of playing if you start NOW, and compare that to 22 months of playing starting in Nov 15, that players now will have a roster in a much better place.

    And yes...you are being entitled by bringing up TBs because THAT CONTENT IS NOT FOR YOU TO MAX OUT YET!!! That content is playable now, but most players that are getting 110+ victories in TB have either spent a lot of $$$ or have played for almost 2 years. You do understand we are all on the same path, and that will take LESS time for newer players, but it still takes time....we all are just starting at different times on the same path. You're trying to skip that time and the building up process.

    So what if by the time you have R1 and PX built there will be another DS TB? You still need to handle things in the order of the process, same as I did - you're just doing it at different times. They released this Hoth TB in the 21st month of me playing. By the time you are in your 21st month - THAT's when you should start equating us and what we can and cannot do in the game.

    I'd equate your perception as being similar to an intern coming in to a company, seeing that the CEO is getting paid a ton, and assuming that you should be paid similar to the CEO despite all the experience and work the CEO has put in over the years. "New hire experience" needs to be better ? :)
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Synric wrote: »
    For the life of me I don't understand the "I had to walk uphill both ways to school, so you do too" mentality. My parents grew up without A/C and had to go outside to ****. I'm glad they didn't have the same mentality as some of you guys. If someone has an easier path to something than you did it doesn't take away from your accomplishment. If it's easier/fast for people to get caught up, great, that's more people to help out in TBs, raids, etc. But it's fine, you guys can be grumpy elitists.

    We aren't complaining about the fact that new players DO have it easier - that's expected and fine as things are added and old content is made easier / more available - we're fighting the weak logic that two players starting at vastly different times should be at the same points on the same path. Players that are able to tackle end game content now (Hoth TB) have played for 20-22 months or so. Players that have played for a fraction of that time are arguing that is unfair to them. This is ridiculous.

    If I get on a train that has a 2 hour ride at 10 AM, I'll arrive at 12 noon. If a person later gets on that same train and travels to the same location, but they take the 11 AM train ... why is it unfair that they arrive 1 hour later than me at 1 PM? And in this case, you're actually arriving in <2 hours because it's easier now - so you get there in 90 minutes instead of 120 like me.
    Post edited by JohnnySteelAlpha on
  • I started in January 2016, and recently started an alt. Things have not gotten easier, the mountain has just gotten taller.
  • Twin wrote: »
    The path to end game isn't shorter for veterans - it's the same time period to get to varying levels of end game. Your ignoring the time it took a veteran to get to where they are today.

    When the game launched what was it level cap 60 and several gear tiers lower? Its a heck of a lot quicker to get to level 60 G7 or whatever than it is to get level 85 G11/12 with zetas and decent mods.

    I'm not ignoring that yeah, veterans put time into building up their rosters, but I'm also not ignoring that while older players were doing that they were getting fed events and content that were based around much lower caps at the time that were much quicker to hit.

    No...:) We HAD NO events!!! Also, a level cap impedes progress. You are lucky, you have no cap at 50, 70, etc. Your progress isn't stopped early on. We couldn't hit lower levels quicker because we were stopped intentionally. Put it this way, if I could start the game now and I put the same amount of time / resources in the game as I did when I started in Nov 2015, after the same amount of time (22 months at this point) I'd be in a vastly better place in terms of progress after those 22 months having started in September 2017. Reason being is early on in my playing I could have access to events, credit heists, level 85 challenges, TBs, raids ... on and on. The first 6 months of a Nov 2015 player was pretty much wasted since most / all of that didn't even exist and due to the level caps a tremendous amount of energy was wasted at prior cap levels. New players now waste no energy till they hit 85.

    You may feel overwhelmed with content and things to chase, but trust me, that's a good thing - that's content and gives you something to do going forward; MUCH better than having nothing to do and nothing to really look forward to. This is a key point for new players now to realize: compared to a veteran player's first 6-12 months, your first 6-12 months will result in significantly more progress and you have many more cool things to chase and look forward to. You are choosing to see the content as overwhelming, but that content is the only reason the game exists and is the whole point of the game.


    I will disagree about level cap impeding progress...

    You guys are not putting the time in perspective and relative to a launch player. The caps 100% impede progress. Let's use a very specific example of Omega materials and only look at the level 85 1 per day guarantee drop. A Nov '15 player couldn't hit level 85 for almost exactly 12 months - see intro post below

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/71511/game-update-10-11-2016#latest

    Now, in this 12 month time period, those Nov '15 players were level capped for months at a time along each level cap raise - I'd have to check for sure, but depending on your speed to level based on refreshes, anywhere from 3-6+ months Nov '15 players were stuck at <85 levels along the way. That's 3-6+ months of ZERO daily omegas in that 12 month time period that a new player gets!!! You could do this exact same type of comparison for the daily challenges and their output at level 80+. You can do it for the raids as well. HAAT was also nearly a full 12 months before it even launched for a Nov '15 player. As a player of almost a year - how much loot have you received from the Tank raid?

    You guys are SOOO far ahead of launch players on a relative basis it's sick - yet because you aren't exactly in a launch player's position now you're upset. May the ENTITLEMENT be with you!
  • Icefen wrote: »
    This is the problem with the newer generations , they want everything with no real effort. I started playing in January 2016 as f2p. It took me 3 attempts to 7 star Yoda, when it first came out it was a “challenge” to get him, unlike now that you 7 star him just by looking at him. There was no free energy, no gear at the stores. The gap between f2p and p2p was way bigger than now. GW was a mayor pain in the *** , not just a couple of broken nods. There were no guilds an no ship which means two less stores to obtain toons , so the farming was slower, now can farm an entire team at once. Gear was harder to obtain with no fleet (or shard store now) an no free energy. By the time the tank was released I quit playing, 8 months later I came back and was a completely different gam. There were ships and Z , toons like Kylo and Bobba Fett were useless . It was and still is hard to kinda catch up , so I dedicated my resources to form teams for the tank which now is paying up, I´m in a guild that still does normal AAT but now I´m in the top 3 scorers and manage to stay between 300/400 in arena.
    A couple of months ago I started a second account and it was way easier than my first one. In that account I´m lvl 77 with a few toons with gear 9 in the top 100 in arena. The top player in that shard has a gear 12 CLS, whom I didn´t have in my January 16 account. So don’t tell me that today’s new players have it rough when in reality it easier to obtain, lvl, gear, and mod than the older players. And not to mention a way wider catalog of toons to chose with realy good toons for free.

    Honestly it's not generations - it's just a human thing: lack of patience + envy / jealousy
  • Ocelotchun wrote: »
    When did you start playing?

    Already said earlier in the thread, have fun just resorting to nonsense now because you realize you aren't making any good points.
    Icefen wrote: »
    This is the problem with the newer generations , they want everything with no real effort.

    Who is asking for everything with no real effort? Pretty much every farm fest game alleviates past bottlenecks when new end game bottlenecks are introduced...otherwise as time goes on the game becomes more and more pointless for new players to even bother. Do you not want to have new players stick around to keep the game alive? It should be stating the obvious at this point but if we don't have paying customers we don't have a game.
    Icefen wrote: »
    A couple of months ago I started a second account and it was way easier than my first one. In that account I´m lvl 77 with a few toons with gear 9

    A couple months in you have some garbage toons? Congrats? You can't do much in heroic raids or TB other than get carried, or join a **** guild so you can feel like you contribute more even though you'll get less rewards that way, which in return just puts you further behind the curve. Further more you probably don't even have the roster to even participate in most events, let alone actually do well enough to get rewards from them, or maybe complete them.

    Also, since TB introduced, those powerful guild are requiring over even more than 1mil gp players to join, new players are hardly to find poweful guild who wish to carry new comers now.

    So that puts you in position that you team up with players of your own time / start vintage. What's wrong with that? The HAAT raid and Rancor raid was set up to permit players to be carried - TBs are not. I say this because as a launch player, my Rancor and HAAT experience...I was not carried!!! You don't NEED or deserve to be carried. Have fun, play the game - don't take hand-out rewards!!! Trust me, you will have more fun and you won't incur any bodily harm as a result of not having someone to carry you; you'll have much more satisfaction and sense of accomplishment.
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    snowhut wrote: »
    I started in January 2016, and recently started an alt. Things have not gotten easier, the mountain has just gotten taller.

    The mountain hasn't gotten taller - you just see more of the mountain now. That's the point that there is no end game. In fact - the mountain you THINK you see as taller now - it's actually WAAAAY bigger than that because there's new content planned out for 2018!!!!! Even the biggest whale right now with all things maxed is behind. The mountain is a continually expanding magical mountain. We are ALL hamsters on a wheel!!! There is no end, the mountain will never stop growing...until it does...but then that means the mountain has disappeared!!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6zEaA-nAlU
  • It takes a year or more to level up. That is a long time to pay your dues.

    Welcome to the slog. If you don't want to devote your time for the long haul, don't play the game. Explain to everyone who started 1-1.5 years ago why you deserve to advance at a faster rate than we did?

    First, I am not talking about me. I am talking about the health of the game.

    A game shouldn't ever be about slog, regardless of when you started. But think about this: on day 1, everyone was equal and advancing together which should have been fun. Catching up isnt the same experience. As such, as the time it requires to reach the end game increases, it is in the vested interest of the game to speed up the early stages. The major MMO's all learned this, and it applies here.

    This isn't about feelings of elitism or entitlement, it is about retaining new players.



    Agree all these long time players can't event put themselves in the shoes of new accounts. This is like the i walked 5 miles uphill in snow so there is no way it could be worse, type arguments.

    To your point this becomes a problem as older players stop playing new players need to fill in the slots but if they are frustrated with the experience and over whelmed they won't get there. There needs to be catch up mechanics so it doesn't take 6 months to get players ready for TB, every game has to deal with this issue sooner or later.
  • Another issue could be newbies that come in during an event and see a 'new event' like bb8, realize they have zero chance of getting him and figure they joined the party too late. I'm not sure how the game communicates this but they might not realize that the event will return (and if they do know maybe don't have the patience to wait) so they probably get frustrated and think they missed out forever and quit due to anger or lack of knowing how the game works.

    When I rejoined recently I saw GK, EP, Thawn and CLS in peoples arena roster so I went to the 'FIND' section to see where I could farm them. Nowhere.. but because I played the game before and had a forum account I came on here and saw that the events would eventually come back so now I'm farming the toons I need to get them.

    Maybe a little better communication from the devs in-game might go a long way to helping newbies realize it's a long journey and if they stick around they will eventually get what they want?? Just a thought
  • New players bring in new revenue that allows them to keep putting out new material, new characters, etc. New players are much more important to their bottom line than vets. A new whale will spend a lot more then a vet whale. Relaly once you have cls / thrawn/ etc, you probably don't need to keep spending.

    Bottom line which matters most to EA is they need new players and new revenue. Even you vets need new players to replace the old ones quitting.

  • Building a roster, squads, gearing, farming and competing at a top tier level takes time, dedecation and/or money if you want it faster. This is how ALL ONLINE GAMES ARE!
    Except games of skill, games of chance, and pretty much every game ever made that hasn't been infected by all this RPG treadmill gear-tycoon stuff. Get outside of your bubble, man.

    Everything i said is exactly how this game runs. If Newbies want to get things faster they have to either pay or take the time to farm. Thats how most of us has been playing this game since it was realeased.

    And because im fine with this i live inside of a bubble? Hate the game not the player there pal! Maybe you should be upset with the ones in charge that made this game what it is today!

    Of course...you always have the option to just quit and walk away if you dont like it.

    If you decide youd rather continue playing then just play and quit crying about how the RNG has been soooooo mean and unfair to you. Its pathetic!
    Wanna see a trolls weak roster? Here ya go---->>>> https://swgoh.gg/u/nicwester/You've been warned.

    Re: Discussion in category Forum Trash
    HardPill2Swallow
    HardPill2Swallow - December 22, 2017 2:25PM
    If you're like me and play faithfully everyday getting rank 1 constantly, working with others in your shard to not only stay competetive but also working to keep out new players from dropping your rank, then you will understand what I'm saying.

    When CLS came for the first time there were a lot of new faces that entered the top 10. Now that he is coming back we will see even more climbing the ranks...not because they have a good roster, or because they are good players..but because they finally got the CLS toon they have been crying about for months. We all know how good CLS is and how he fits into any team or any part of this game.

    The shard I'm in has the exact same feeling as I do: All of us don't like to see new faces. All of us have controlled the top of our arena shard for well over a year and the last thing we want is to have to share our ranks with other players, not because they are good or deserve to be in the top 10...but because they weren't good enough to make it to the top 10 with what they had.

    Instead they are gonna climb the ranks because of 1 toon. Just 1 toon...that's it. They haven't worked endlessly day after day for months holding on to their ranks of their daily payout, helping each other out like so many of us do. Nor have they helped each other out from snipers like many of us also have done.

    My suggestion...work together to keep out all these new faces that get into the top 10 not because they are good or ain't good or deserve to be there...but because they couldn't get there before now all of a sudden because they got Luke they think they are top 10 arena tier and deserve to be there. They don't deserve to be there. Attack them soon as you get the chance to.

    I know this isn't a popular opinion and I'm gonna get tons of hate...and honestly I don't even care. I'm just saying what the majorty of all the top people of their arena shards are thinking:

    All these new players that are gonna enter the top 10 deserves to be targets first. Make them work for it. Show them just how competetive the top 10 is and what it takes if they wanna try and stay there.

    To all the new players entering the top 10...you better be ready for a war cause you're not climbing the ranks that easily because you finally got Luke. Better mod up, refresh and be ready to change your team up cause for players like me and many others: it takes dedication, team work, communication and a willingness to log in multiple times a day to hold on to your ranks that we've held on to for well over a year...and many others and myself aren't giving it up without a fight. Just because you finally got Luke doesn't mean you are gonna get an easy free ride to the top.

    If you can't beat any combination of squads in the top 10....you simply just don't belong there yet.
    Moderator TyloRen
    Points 0
    TyloRenTyloRen 5:05PM
    I appreciate passion and all, but I'm removing your post. It really serves no purpose, and trolling other users isn't permitted.
    HardPill2SwallowHardPill2Swallow 5:07PM
    **** you
  • This post, like so many others, has devolved into petty arguments about what people are/aren't entitled to, with the occasional reference to the OP's point.

    He makes a good one. We need new players to stay in the game. I've played for 20 months, and I'd like to play for 20 more. I think we can agree that without new players keeping interested, the game can't survive. What needs to happen is a restructure of the starting point. Sorry to all those veterans, like myself, whose best toons were Talia and Jedi Counselor. There is no reason to start anyone where I started.

    What would be wrong with starting new players with a complete 5 character faction at 5*? Let them choose which faction to begin with. Before they choose, let them know what legendary characters require (Yoda needs Jedi, EP needs rebels, Thrawn needs Phoenix, etc.) to help them make a decision. Give them 500 crystals, three full purple gear pieces, and 2 mill credits for every 10 levels of progress so they can level and gear toons faster. Sell cheaper starter packs to them (I remember the $5 Dooku pack I passed on to my detriment). There are tons of ways to help them progress faster. We need them to want to play, and they will want to play if they see themselves getting closer to us more quickly.

    Can you imagine how much faster you'd climb with 5 empire or rebel toons day one? How much more fun would arena have been?

    If swgoh is a journey, and I'm on point F, I don't see anything wrong with making progress to point C/D significantly faster. Like a month. What person, who has 100 7* toons, would care if a newbie gets his first 5* squad right away, or gets a few million credits now and again to level a toon from 6* to 7*? Or can get the first legendary character unlocked first time it comes back around? (CHOOSE REBELS!)

    To appease the veterans, increase TB rewards even more. If you don't keep us happy, we will start leaving too. Even I, who spend 3+ hours playing, organizing my guild, and chatting with my guild friends on discord, am getting sick of rewards that I can't use. Carbantis IV? When every character I have needs Carbantis III? I've suggested this elsewhere, but making a specific reward tier, instead of boxes of garbage, would increase my enjoyment and dedication. If I knew 25* meant a complete cuff every time, I'd be sure my guild gets 25*.

    The game is fun for me. Like the OP says, we need to make sure it's fun for new players too.
  • That's one way to end an argument online - make a terribly horrible single huge rambling post that I have no idea what to do with :) There's NO debating that after 22 months of playing if you start NOW, and compare that to 22 months of playing starting in Nov 15, that players now will have a roster in a much better place.

    Right. I'm not disagreeing with that, and I'm ok with that. Like I said...nobody is expecting to be handed G12 zetad characters just because they're new.
    And yes...you are being entitled by bringing up TBs because THAT CONTENT IS NOT FOR YOU TO MAX OUT YET!!! That content is playable now, but most players that are getting 110+ victories in TB have either spent a lot of $$$ or have played for almost 2 years. You do understand we are all on the same path, and that will take LESS time for newer players, but it still takes time....we all are just starting at different times on the same path. You're trying to skip that time and the building up process.

    So what if by the time you have R1 and PX built there will be another DS TB? You still need to handle things in the order of the process, same as I did - you're just doing it at different times. They released this Hoth TB in the 21st month of me playing. By the time you are in your 21st month - THAT's when you should start equating us and what we can and cannot do in the game.

    The big difference between now and then...back then there were no game modes that required several full teams of max leveled well geared characters to do well in. To be decent in all game modes back then required far fewer toons, less levels, and less gear.

    Besides...expecting people to start of 21 months behind is just ****, people aren't going to do it. Who wants to start off nearly 2 years behind in a game that may not even be around in 2 years? Again I'm not saying just hand people free maxed out toons or anything...just would it be that bad to get rid of past bottlenecks? What is the point of gear bottlenecking starting for a lot of toons at G8-9 when toons of those level aren't even useful in a lot of content? Lighten up on that and let people get to G10/11 faster, bottleneck them at 12, and premium character bottlenecking is already in place as they introduce more characters that require various factions to unlock. I'm not demanding we all have 2 million GP in 6 months...just make it easier for new players to get non-maxed toons that are powerful enough to at least let them enjoy content rather than be carried by guildies or fall behind people on their shard who have joined big guilds and are getting carried.
    I'd equate your perception as being similar to an intern coming in to a company, seeing that the CEO is getting paid a ton, and assuming that you should be paid similar to the CEO despite all the experience and work the CEO has put in over the years. "New hire experience" needs to be better ? :)

    Well that's not how I'd equate it. I'd equate it more like power creep is equal to inflation, and a new hire coming into a company is saying he wants to be paid in today's wages and not what the going wage was in 1950.

  • Twin wrote: »
    The path to end game isn't shorter for veterans - it's the same time period to get to varying levels of end game. Your ignoring the time it took a veteran to get to where they are today.

    When the game launched what was it level cap 60 and several gear tiers lower? Its a heck of a lot quicker to get to level 60 G7 or whatever than it is to get level 85 G11/12 with zetas and decent mods.

    I'm not ignoring that yeah, veterans put time into building up their rosters, but I'm also not ignoring that while older players were doing that they were getting fed events and content that were based around much lower caps at the time that were much quicker to hit.

    No...:) We HAD NO events!!! Also, a level cap impedes progress. You are lucky, you have no cap at 50, 70, etc. Your progress isn't stopped early on. We couldn't hit lower levels quicker because we were stopped intentionally. Put it this way, if I could start the game now and I put the same amount of time / resources in the game as I did when I started in Nov 2015, after the same amount of time (22 months at this point) I'd be in a vastly better place in terms of progress after those 22 months having started in September 2017. Reason being is early on in my playing I could have access to events, credit heists, level 85 challenges, TBs, raids ... on and on. The first 6 months of a Nov 2015 player was pretty much wasted since most / all of that didn't even exist and due to the level caps a tremendous amount of energy was wasted at prior cap levels. New players now waste no energy till they hit 85.

    You may feel overwhelmed with content and things to chase, but trust me, that's a good thing - that's content and gives you something to do going forward; MUCH better than having nothing to do and nothing to really look forward to. This is a key point for new players now to realize: compared to a veteran player's first 6-12 months, your first 6-12 months will result in significantly more progress and you have many more cool things to chase and look forward to. You are choosing to see the content as overwhelming, but that content is the only reason the game exists and is the whole point of the game.


    I will disagree about level cap impeding progress...

    You guys are not putting the time in perspective and relative to a launch player. The caps 100% impede progress. Let's use a very specific example of Omega materials and only look at the level 85 1 per day guarantee drop. A Nov '15 player couldn't hit level 85 for almost exactly 12 months - see intro post below

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/71511/game-update-10-11-2016#latest

    Now, in this 12 month time period, those Nov '15 players were level capped for months at a time along each level cap raise - I'd have to check for sure, but depending on your speed to level based on refreshes, anywhere from 3-6+ months Nov '15 players were stuck at <85 levels along the way. That's 3-6+ months of ZERO daily omegas in that 12 month time period that a new player gets!!! You could do this exact same type of comparison for the daily challenges and their output at level 80+. You can do it for the raids as well. HAAT was also nearly a full 12 months before it even launched for a Nov '15 player. As a player of almost a year - how much loot have you received from the Tank raid?

    You guys are SOOO far ahead of launch players on a relative basis it's sick - yet because you aren't exactly in a launch player's position now you're upset. May the ENTITLEMENT be with you!

    While veteran players (when the game started) were sitting at level caps of 60-70-85 and so on, once capped that was level up energy etc missed because we were just waiting for the next level cap.

    New players can no go full steam ahead - all the way to level 85 and not being capped at the increments we were capped at for long periods of time - always gaining those level up bonuses. So that's nice.

    We got all the way from level 1 to 85, farmed omegas, zetas and toons to get where we are. A new player cannot be expected to have everything handed to them right off the bat, but perhaps some free packs or special events limited to players under level 60 only etc. could help a little.

    But at the end of the day - you have to work on this game, we all did. Complaining that veteran players have it easier than new players is like complaining the P2P whales have it easier than F2P - this argument makes no sense at all.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Arhithi wrote: »
    I started playing on launch day of 2015, then quit shortly after mods came out which the devs royally screwed up on. I was sick of the beta feeling and all the nerf requests and so forth so I uninstalled.. Well about three weeks ago I started playing again after seeing the 'new and updated' on my Google Play Store..

    First, I was amazed at all the new toons introduced then quickly realized how much I needed to 'catch up'. I didn't have a single Phoenix toon or any decent empire either (Vader was still super rare at the time). My arena server is from 2015 so I basically have no shot of getting to top 200 any time soon. (current rank 510).

    Luckily I had enough rebels to get a 6* EP the first week I started, but had no shot of BB8 which is no biggy really. But the biggest disadvantage for me is in the ships. I farmed JC, GS, 5s, Ashoka and Biggs ship shards for 3 weeks straight and only got them to 3* and rank 1100 with no shot of getting closer as everyone is at least 30k power more than me. So I gave up farming ships to farm a phoenix squad again and now I might need to farm resistance or scoundrels for the next event. There is just too many things to focus on and it's a bit overwhelming for most people.

    I don't mind the grind and will continue to play because I love star wars and the game is fun for me (now that mods have been reworked), but for new players I can understand the frustration of starting behind the 8 ball and feeling like they will miss out on all the good stuff because they didn't play from day 1.

    Yes, in this particular rare circumstance you really are very far behind those you are competing against and it's possibly even hopeless. Many people recommend starting over on a fresh account as a result. But this is not the common situation of new players being discussed on this thread.

    Actually, this is me, except I restarted 6 weeks ago. Yes, I am so far behind that I will never catch up. But it all depends on how you approach the game. I think the biggest disadvantage is that in GW, you are facing teams so far above your advancement, that you'll never get there. But I am resigned to making it to the 9th or 10th node, before those teams 7-10 levels higher with top notch mods beat you down without a chance.
  • We aren't complaining about the fact that new players DO have it easier - that's expected and fine as things are added and old content is made easier / more available - we're fighting the weak logic that two players starting at vastly different times should be at the same points on the same path.

    Nobody is arguing a 3 month player should have the same roster as a two year player.
    Players that are able to tackle end game content now (Hoth TB) have played for 20-22 months or so. Players that have played for a fraction of that time are arguing that is unfair to them. This is ridiculous.

    If you played at launch you were tackling end game content probably a few months after you started playing when the caps were lower. Why now should players be expected to face a much, much, much longer grind before they can meaningfully participate in/contribute to high level content? That = ridiculous.
  • snowhut wrote: »
    I started in January 2016, and recently started an alt. Things have not gotten easier, the mountain has just gotten taller.

    The mountain hasn't gotten taller - you just see more of the mountain now. That's the point that there is no end game. In fact - the mountain you THINK you see as taller now - it's actually WAAAAY bigger than that because there's new content planned out for 2018!!!!! Even the biggest whale right now with all things maxed is behind. The mountain is a continually expanding magical mountain. We are ALL hamsters on a wheel!!! There is no end, the mountain will never stop growing...until it does...but then that means the mountain has disappeared!!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6zEaA-nAlU

    I think you probably missed the point of the reference. That's ok.
  • Why now should players be expected to face a much, much, much longer grind before they can meaningfully participate in/contribute to high level content? That = ridiculous.

    No, that = normal.

    Gee, a game has been out for almost two years and a new player has more content to wade through than someone who began two years ago?

    This astonishment from you over this is laughable.

  • So that puts you in position that you team up with players of your own time / start vintage. What's wrong with that? The HAAT raid and Rancor raid was set up to permit players to be carried - TBs are not. I say this because as a launch player, my Rancor and HAAT experience...I was not carried!!! You don't NEED or deserve to be carried. Have fun, play the game - don't take hand-out rewards!!! Trust me, you will have more fun and you won't incur any bodily harm as a result of not having someone to carry you; you'll have much more satisfaction and sense of accomplishment.

    It doesn't work this way because you can't be isolated from the effect the older players have on the game even on a newer shard.

    Take Person A...he joins a bigger fairly established guild happy to tow him along for his 600 daily that runs 3x rancor and 2x aat heroic raids a week, and his guild gets 25+ stars in TB.

    Take Person B...he joins a weaker newbie guild(provided he can even find one) that runs a few lower level raids a week and gets <10 stars in TB.

    At the end of 3 months Person A will have accumulated a ridiculous amount more resources than Person B. The problem is...both of these people are on the same arena shard...now Person B also ends up way behind Person A in squad and fleet arena, which puts him even further and further behind.

    Its not more fun, satisfying, or a sense of accomplishment to get wrecked day in and day out in squad and ship arenas by people who are getting carried by big guilds, getting far more rewards then you, and perpetually pulling further and further ahead.

    Did you get carried when guilds were brand new? Nope. But did you have people posting 10 million+ damage on rancor 10 minutes after its opened for damage or guilds where your top 5 players could wreck HAAT without any contribution from the other 45? Nope. I'd love it if getting carried wasn't an option for people on my shard so I didn't have to get carried or get left behind...but that simply isn't how the game works.
  • It is psychologically rewarding to feel like you are progressing in the game in a meaningful way. I think it is a legitimate concern that newer players see the "mountain" that they have to climb and may be intimidated/put off. Players from launch didn't have to deal with that--they got to grow as the game grew.

    However, I started 9 months ago and have never felt like I was behind older players or competing against them. They're on different shards, in different guilds, with different goals. The fun of the game is building your roster and slowly participating in more and more parts of the game. I'm sure EA is watching new player participation and if they were having increasing troubles with new players dropping out, they would do something about it.

    That said, I do agree that the gear 9-10 crunch could be alleviated to some extent now that we have g12. It would benefit everyone, so would be fair to new and old players alike. Not that fairness should matter much when talking about the new player experience.
  • Perfxion
    169 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    The biggest bottleneck isn’t level based, it’s gear based. The new player doesn’t have that major problem in the first 10 levels. It isn’t an issue until level 40. The only issue at lower levels is not truly knowing that you need rebels and empire toons more than any other factions. You waste time on weaker Jedis and Nightsisters when rebels gets you a lot further.

    The issue is getting g8-10 in gear. That haults growth from level 65 and above. As you need more toons and factions for more events, that gear level seemingly needs 1000+ Cufs and guns that kills enjoyment. Can’t 7* Yoda without getting over G8. Thus, can’t get CLS. Can’t get CLS, cant win GW. Everything slows down. Moving some of that gear behind a paywall for newer players further slows them down. People will either quit before level 6 or quit at G8 gear.

    If it’s about a Jedi Luke for lower teirs, just release that rebel Luke that is the game. Make him a little stronger than Jedi Counseler and done.
  • lisztophobia
    808 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Building a roster, squads, gearing, farming and competing at a top tier level takes time, dedecation and/or money if you want it faster. This is how ALL ONLINE GAMES ARE!
    Except games of skill, games of chance, and pretty much every game ever made that hasn't been infected by all this RPG treadmill gear-tycoon stuff. Get outside of your bubble, man.

    Everything i said is exactly how this game runs. If Newbies want to get things faster they have to either pay or take the time to farm. Thats how most of us has been playing this game since it was realeased.

    And because im fine with this i live inside of a bubble?
    Because you claim that every game is a treadmill game about accumulating permanent power you live in a bubble. I addressed what you wrote. Meanwhile,
    quit crying about how the RNG has been soooooo mean and unfair to you. Its pathetic!
    Some weird complaint about an imaginary thing that I haven't done. And
    Of course...you always have the option to just quit and walk away if you dont like it.
    Look, I understand that you're trying to drive people away from this game so it can shut down sooner but "My way or go away" isn't going to work on me, Sunshine. I'm sure that CG appreciates your efforts to undermine their bottom line though.
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