Phoenix Squad works better as a team. Often people say they lack offense, but they are designed to be defensive. After 4 turns, they have Ezra's shared unique which can add 40% offense. They regenerate both health and protection, Gain protection up, heal when they get debuffed, and are designed to be a turn meter gaining team. The added chance of chopper to assist (30%) also adds to "Adjusted offense"
They lose many benefits when not used together as a group and that is why I feel many misjudge their usefulness.
Like a few people have mentioned in other threads, they require adjusting your strategy to fully see the teams potential.
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I am gearing up my Phoenix toons for TB anyway, and they are fun to play. Plus maybe New Phoenix toons will be brought it
And no, they don't pay me to say that. Though, if they want to send me a check, or some free crystals...
They're great for PvE, though. Any time a new event or mode comes out and Phoenix is eligible to be used, you can guarantee that you'll get solid results with them. Maybe not the topmost results, but solid and useful. Good ships, too. Folks just have their minds made up that they're awful and confirmation bias takes care of the rest.
Somebody give me an example of a non Phoenix character that we can compare some numbers
40% of crappy damage still is crappy damage.
If Hera dies Phoenixes just crumble and she's not that tough. She can't be saved thanks to her buff and both tanks are terrible at tanking.
Only Ezra hits hard so once he dies you won't be able to kill a thing.
And they are among the most expensive team to gear around... Gearing Resistance is way easier and they're better at everything. Not a tough choice tbh.
Both of these points are true. And are the two failings of Phoenix.
However - I certainly enjoy using them- lots of fun and encourage a lot more tactical thinking than other squads.
PLUS - I want Thrawn!
Also, I can almost sweep GW every day with my Phoenix squad. And they aren’t even my best GW squad.
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Try running with no Chopper in TB...I find they perform a lot better that way. In the earlier rounds they probably won't even chew through your protection thanks to Zeb, and in later rounds if you are getting the rebel heal from platoon buffs, it makes Chopper's unique redundant.
Assuming you are sitting out Sabine, since she seems to be most people's bench warmer, you'll pick up 25% crit chance and crit damage for the rest of your squad. Considering most people's main complaint about Phoenix is their damage, why not throw that extra attacker in there to boost it? Enemy AOE's make me giggle like a little school girl every time Ezra and Sabine both decide to counter. Last TB I cleared phase 5 with them and didn't get wrecked til P6 round 5 when I spawned 4 champions...but hey what can I say, most squads would have gotten wrecked there and it wasn't a bad run for a squad with no G12 and no zetas.
One other thing to keep in mind is that in later phases when you can use the special TB AOE attack, its damage is modified by who you have using it, so make sure to use it with one of your harder hitting characters. Its going to do more if you use it with a decked out Ezra than a Zeb or Kanan.
In fact, I couldn't do P5 special mission when I used Sabine, so now I use chopper with better results. For earlier phases, Sabine just makes things faster. Anyway, mine's only gear 8 so she doesn't do much
Indeed, specially when only ezra is gear 11 and the others are gear 8/9. How many teams can do combat missions reliably at that gear level? Only resistance. And using phoenix helps free other toons for platoons (wedge, biggs, lando, etc)
Yeah...gear levels a little low. Protection is super important for Phoenix and G8 Sabine doesn't have much. Maybe you'll find a set up with Ezra/Sabine more viable with more gear down the road. Also...if you aren't using protection mods...try getting some, they help a ton.
Everyone has protection mods except ezra (crit chance and damage) and zeb (potency). But yes, I'd like to gear them further, but they all require so many stun guns...
I love the hell out of Chopper. Sabine is a good character, but I just feel like she's the odd woman out.
Ugh, pretty jealous. Phoenix is such a pain to gear. Got g11 Hera, Ezra & zKanan, g10 Chop, g9 Zeb & g8 Sabine.
Just 16 more guns, 8 cuffs & 42 carbs and I can g11 them all!
The thing with Chopper in TB is his PU doesn't apply if you already have PU...which rebels will get in TB every time they use a skill, and I don't taunt much because all Phoenix is all pretty tanky and I'd rather let the dumb AI kindly spread out the damage to maximize my protection regeneration as much as possible.
I guess the buffwipe is still useful...but the again...so is whacking them with Darkblade and mowing them down faster. Same for the cooldown reduction...its helpful, but in reality its main function is to hopefully work on Ezra/Hera for more damage or Zeb for the stagger. Well what do you know...Sabine brings more damage and a stagger to the table without having to rely on Chopper RNG.
If it was GW I'd agree...Chopper is probably too good to let go...but considering in TB you already get passive heal, PU on skill use, and a lot of the time when they do taunt they get multiple taunts so all Chopper's buff removal does is make you go from one taunter to the next...he's just not my first pick.
So when I'm looking at whether or not a character, or group of characters, is worthy of investing valuable credits, gear, mods, etc, I ask myself.
1. How are they in arena? This is the MOST important question, because arena is the main source of crystals. Your best characters, zetas, gear, mods, everything should be prioritized to your arena team. Phoenix is awful in arena, and that is worth mentioning on any discussion regarding how good they are.
2. Now, regarding all the other areas of the game, they certainly have their uses. For a player just starting out, I would highly recommend farming them first and foremost. However, from the perspective of a day 1 player, as long as you can beat Thrawn, Assault Battles, and the required TB waves, they are not worth giving valuable raid gear, and certainly not zetas. Anything they can do, other toons can do better, and you don't need to have 5 of the same tag to pull it off. When CG first introduced them, they were awful. Now, they're good, but not great.
Of course, all this is my personal opinion, and I'm still bitter about Disney cancelling the more mature Clone Wars for the less mature Rebels, especially since Clone Wars was about to canonize Revan.
If have them as your best team because you saw opportunities early on, go for it. TBH, Resistance is the better LS battering ram and, if you're willing to deal with losses on Def - probably a better bet in Arena too.
That being said, I use Sabine when I run them for the crit damage, the shield break (which is more damage) and the extra stagger which is sweet - speed is king - but TM manipulation is almost as good.
+1
Crystals are the lifeblood of the game. Most players are not whales and do not have the luxury of leveling and gearing an entire Squad that can’t compete in high end Arena. I’ll get them to the minimum required for events and just be content with wherever they end up on TB combat missions.
Well, OP could change title to say Phoenix is stronger and underestimated in all areas of the game but Arena and I’d agree.
Zeta Kanan G12
Ezra G11
Zeta Zeb G10
Chopper G9
Hera G8
Sabine G8
Physical Damage on Kanan is 2640. The 40% once added pushes that to 3696. Again leaving possibility of Offense up buff that can add more. This combined with his counter attack makes his damage output well above the horrible damage everybody claims about Phoenix.
And I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of the damage Zeb has been doing since I Zeta'd him.
And as another person commented, Kanan and Zeb seem to survive even after Hera dies.
Lastly I will again say their arena issue is more an AI issue. They aren't nearly as good when the computer controls them on defense.