Phoenix Stronger And Underestimated

Prev1
Phoenix Squad works better as a team. Often people say they lack offense, but they are designed to be defensive. After 4 turns, they have Ezra's shared unique which can add 40% offense. They regenerate both health and protection, Gain protection up, heal when they get debuffed, and are designed to be a turn meter gaining team. The added chance of chopper to assist (30%) also adds to "Adjusted offense"
They lose many benefits when not used together as a group and that is why I feel many misjudge their usefulness.
Like a few people have mentioned in other threads, they require adjusting your strategy to fully see the teams potential.

Replies

  • The problem I have with Phoenix is they are all difficult to gear and when you get them to g11 they still don’t hit hard. I know you have addressed that your post, but I’m not sure there is a place in the game for a ‘defensive team’. I never see Phoenix teams in arena to fight them.

    I am gearing up my Phoenix toons for TB anyway, and they are fun to play. Plus maybe New Phoenix toons will be brought it :)
  • How much are people getting paid to make these posts? Phoenix will never be arena viable.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • Arena isn't the be-all and end-all of the game, though. I find Phoenix does fairly well in the long-haul battles... GW, TB, raids, where they can build up their synergy. Not every toon should be useful in Arena.

    And no, they don't pay me to say that. Though, if they want to send me a check, or some free crystals...
  • You're right that they're undervalued. People think the entire game revolves around Arena, so anyone who isn't good in Arena is a garbage character.

    They're great for PvE, though. Any time a new event or mode comes out and Phoenix is eligible to be used, you can guarantee that you'll get solid results with them. Maybe not the topmost results, but solid and useful. Good ships, too. Folks just have their minds made up that they're awful and confirmation bias takes care of the rest.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Gawejn
    1104 posts Member
    Pheonix is great team. First uniques shared. Second recovery of health and protection. Those two things which are very good about them. I use Pheonix to clear few nodes in GW. And one more thing is Ezra. He can be crazy with his dmg. I use him in Haat and works very well in Rebel team. They cannot hold in Arena but it doesnt matter. I enjoy to play them.
  • Pheonix would be arena viable if you have them all g12 with zetas, however you can farm a team that holds better on defense with much less of an investment. They just aren't worth it. On offense, I'd agree maxed they look great. You probably shouldn't lose with them.
  • An issue with the arena is that when the computer controls the Phoenix squad the AI is easy to beat, so you would drop from people battling you. Mid game Phoenix are perfect for GW. And the offense issue I still think my above argument is good. The key is pushing through the first 4 turns. Which can be done somewhat quickly. But a 40% offense boost is what you should factor in when comparing stats.
    Somebody give me an example of a non Phoenix character that we can compare some numbers
  • An issue with the arena is that when the computer controls the Phoenix squad the AI is easy to beat, so you would drop from people battling you. Mid game Phoenix are perfect for GW. And the offense issue I still think my above argument is good. The key is pushing through the first 4 turns. Which can be done somewhat quickly. But a 40% offense boost is what you should factor in when comparing stats.
    Somebody give me an example of a non Phoenix character that we can compare some numbers

    40% of crappy damage still is crappy damage.

    If Hera dies Phoenixes just crumble and she's not that tough. She can't be saved thanks to her buff and both tanks are terrible at tanking.

    Only Ezra hits hard so once he dies you won't be able to kill a thing.

    And they are among the most expensive team to gear around... Gearing Resistance is way easier and they're better at everything. Not a tough choice tbh.
  • If Hera dies Phoenixes just crumble and she's not that tough. She can't be saved thanks to her buff and both tanks are terrible at tanking.

    Only Ezra hits hard so once he dies you won't be able to kill a thing.

    Both of these points are true. And are the two failings of Phoenix.

    However - I certainly enjoy using them- lots of fun and encourage a lot more tactical thinking than other squads.


    PLUS - I want Thrawn!

  • Phoenix is an awesome team for territory battles. At least until P5, I wouldn't risk p6 battles with them.
  • Phoenix is an awesome team for territory battles. At least until P5, I wouldn't risk p6 battles with them.
    So they're "awesome" for all the easy stuff until TB actually gets difficult? Doesn't sound so awesome to me...
  • It’s not quite true that “when Hera dies, the team crumbles”. I use them in GW extensively and I’ve found that, at least in GW, Zeb and Kanan by themselves can wear down the opposing squad. Not every type of squad and generally the opposing squad needs to be down to three or four toons but I have done this often.

    Also, I can almost sweep GW every day with my Phoenix squad. And they aren’t even my best GW squad.
  • Phoenix is amazing in every part of the game ... just not arena.
  • I never see Phoenix teams in arena to fight them.
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Phoenix will never be arena viable.
    Drazz127 wrote: »
    Pheonix would be arena viable if you have them all g12 with zetas.
    An issue with the arena is that when the computer controls the Phoenix

    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻| _
    ┻┳| •.•) no one is talking about arena
    ┳┻|⊂ノ
    ┻┳|
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Phoenix is an awesome team for territory battles. At least until P5, I wouldn't risk p6 battles with them.

    Try running with no Chopper in TB...I find they perform a lot better that way. In the earlier rounds they probably won't even chew through your protection thanks to Zeb, and in later rounds if you are getting the rebel heal from platoon buffs, it makes Chopper's unique redundant.

    Assuming you are sitting out Sabine, since she seems to be most people's bench warmer, you'll pick up 25% crit chance and crit damage for the rest of your squad. Considering most people's main complaint about Phoenix is their damage, why not throw that extra attacker in there to boost it? Enemy AOE's make me giggle like a little school girl every time Ezra and Sabine both decide to counter. Last TB I cleared phase 5 with them and didn't get wrecked til P6 round 5 when I spawned 4 champions...but hey what can I say, most squads would have gotten wrecked there and it wasn't a bad run for a squad with no G12 and no zetas.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that in later phases when you can use the special TB AOE attack, its damage is modified by who you have using it, so make sure to use it with one of your harder hitting characters. Its going to do more if you use it with a decked out Ezra than a Zeb or Kanan.
  • Phoenix is an awesome team for territory battles. At least until P5, I wouldn't risk p6 battles with them.

    Try running with no Chopper in TB...I find they perform a lot better that way. In the earlier rounds they probably won't even chew through your protection thanks to Zeb, and in later rounds if you are getting the rebel heal from platoon buffs, it makes Chopper's unique redundant.

    Assuming you are sitting out Sabine, since she seems to be most people's bench warmer, you'll pick up 25% crit chance and crit damage for the rest of your squad. Considering most people's main complaint about Phoenix is their damage, why not throw that extra attacker in there to boost it? Enemy AOE's make me giggle like a little school girl every time Ezra and Sabine both decide to counter. Last TB I cleared phase 5 with them and didn't get wrecked til P6 round 5 when I spawned 4 champions...but hey what can I say, most squads would have gotten wrecked there and it wasn't a bad run for a squad with no G12 and no zetas.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that in later phases when you can use the special TB AOE attack, its damage is modified by who you have using it, so make sure to use it with one of your harder hitting characters. Its going to do more if you use it with a decked out Ezra than a Zeb or Kanan.

    In fact, I couldn't do P5 special mission when I used Sabine, so now I use chopper with better results. For earlier phases, Sabine just makes things faster. Anyway, mine's only gear 8 so she doesn't do much
  • Phoenix is an awesome team for territory battles. At least until P5, I wouldn't risk p6 battles with them.
    So they're "awesome" for all the easy stuff until TB actually gets difficult? Doesn't sound so awesome to me...

    Indeed, specially when only ezra is gear 11 and the others are gear 8/9. How many teams can do combat missions reliably at that gear level? Only resistance. And using phoenix helps free other toons for platoons (wedge, biggs, lando, etc)
  • In fact, I couldn't do P5 special mission when I used Sabine, so now I use chopper with better results. For earlier phases, Sabine just makes things faster. Anyway, mine's only gear 8 so she doesn't do much

    Yeah...gear levels a little low. Protection is super important for Phoenix and G8 Sabine doesn't have much. Maybe you'll find a set up with Ezra/Sabine more viable with more gear down the road. Also...if you aren't using protection mods...try getting some, they help a ton.
  • I like tje squad they are fun . The problem is tje gear crunch with them. Id likw to take them up a notch or 2 . however, with the last jedi coming reys journey i have to invest in resistence now. And they have alot of same gear requirements as is. Then there is the cls event and....ect...ect...ect. PS is a really good squad for tb for sure and gw. I have an arena team . PS is all around good for raid tb gw . For now : Viva La Resistence .
  • I can't fathom leaving chopper out, his damage is terrible, but he does so much else. 1 of 2 taunts, 1 of 2 buff wipe, TM reduction, cooldown reduction, and an amazing unique. The %15 PU when damaged for the squad alone is worth running him.
  • In fact, I couldn't do P5 special mission when I used Sabine, so now I use chopper with better results. For earlier phases, Sabine just makes things faster. Anyway, mine's only gear 8 so she doesn't do much

    Yeah...gear levels a little low. Protection is super important for Phoenix and G8 Sabine doesn't have much. Maybe you'll find a set up with Ezra/Sabine more viable with more gear down the road. Also...if you aren't using protection mods...try getting some, they help a ton.

    Everyone has protection mods except ezra (crit chance and damage) and zeb (potency). But yes, I'd like to gear them further, but they all require so many stun guns...
  • I can't fathom leaving chopper out, his damage is terrible, but he does so much else. 1 of 2 taunts, 1 of 2 buff wipe, TM reduction, cooldown reduction, and an amazing unique. The %15 PU when damaged for the squad alone is worth running him.
    Chopper's damage isn't much, but when Omega'd it'll make up for that low damage quality with high assist quantity. Plus, each assist also triggers the other effects on its basic--buffs, potential cooldown reduction, etc.

    I love the hell out of Chopper. Sabine is a good character, but I just feel like she's the odd woman out.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • I like my Phoenix squad, all g11 & g10...and can 6/6 win in Phase 6 of TB...Sabine does huge damage & so does Ezra...both Ezra & Kanan are good in other Rebel & Jedi squads, and Sabine is good in other Rebel squads, and she is also good under Boba Fett lead for huge crit damage boost...the ships do great, and now they also hav some great zetas as well...who cares if they arent arena viable, i have other teams for that...Phoenix squad are awesome in TB, even in Phase 6!
  • Yotd1076 wrote: »
    I like my Phoenix squad, all g11 & g10...and can 6/6 win in Phase 6 of TB...Sabine does huge damage & so does Ezra...both Ezra & Kanan are good in other Rebel & Jedi squads, and Sabine is good in other Rebel squads, and she is also good under Boba Fett lead for huge crit damage boost...the ships do great, and now they also hav some great zetas as well...who cares if they arent arena viable, i have other teams for that...Phoenix squad are awesome in TB, even in Phase 6!

    Ugh, pretty jealous. Phoenix is such a pain to gear. Got g11 Hera, Ezra & zKanan, g10 Chop, g9 Zeb & g8 Sabine.

    Just 16 more guns, 8 cuffs & 42 carbs and I can g11 them all!
  • I can't fathom leaving chopper out, his damage is terrible, but he does so much else. 1 of 2 taunts, 1 of 2 buff wipe, TM reduction, cooldown reduction, and an amazing unique. The %15 PU when damaged for the squad alone is worth running him.

    The thing with Chopper in TB is his PU doesn't apply if you already have PU...which rebels will get in TB every time they use a skill, and I don't taunt much because all Phoenix is all pretty tanky and I'd rather let the dumb AI kindly spread out the damage to maximize my protection regeneration as much as possible.

    I guess the buffwipe is still useful...but the again...so is whacking them with Darkblade and mowing them down faster. Same for the cooldown reduction...its helpful, but in reality its main function is to hopefully work on Ezra/Hera for more damage or Zeb for the stagger. Well what do you know...Sabine brings more damage and a stagger to the table without having to rely on Chopper RNG.

    If it was GW I'd agree...Chopper is probably too good to let go...but considering in TB you already get passive heal, PU on skill use, and a lot of the time when they do taunt they get multiple taunts so all Chopper's buff removal does is make you go from one taunter to the next...he's just not my first pick.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    I never see Phoenix teams in arena to fight them.
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Phoenix will never be arena viable.
    Drazz127 wrote: »
    Pheonix would be arena viable if you have them all g12 with zetas.
    An issue with the arena is that when the computer controls the Phoenix

    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻| _
    ┻┳| •.•) no one is talking about arena
    ┳┻|⊂ノ
    ┻┳|

    So when I'm looking at whether or not a character, or group of characters, is worthy of investing valuable credits, gear, mods, etc, I ask myself.
    1. How are they in arena? This is the MOST important question, because arena is the main source of crystals. Your best characters, zetas, gear, mods, everything should be prioritized to your arena team. Phoenix is awful in arena, and that is worth mentioning on any discussion regarding how good they are.
    2. Now, regarding all the other areas of the game, they certainly have their uses. For a player just starting out, I would highly recommend farming them first and foremost. However, from the perspective of a day 1 player, as long as you can beat Thrawn, Assault Battles, and the required TB waves, they are not worth giving valuable raid gear, and certainly not zetas. Anything they can do, other toons can do better, and you don't need to have 5 of the same tag to pull it off. When CG first introduced them, they were awful. Now, they're good, but not great.
    Of course, all this is my personal opinion, and I'm still bitter about Disney cancelling the more mature Clone Wars for the less mature Rebels, especially since Clone Wars was about to canonize Revan.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • I have Pheonix because I , in game terms, had to. That's it. They have multiple events, TB, a toon, and a ship all tied to them and, based on the Bad Mouse... I assume more to come.

    If have them as your best team because you saw opportunities early on, go for it. TBH, Resistance is the better LS battering ram and, if you're willing to deal with losses on Def - probably a better bet in Arena too.

    That being said, I use Sabine when I run them for the crit damage, the shield break (which is more damage) and the extra stagger which is sweet - speed is king - but TM manipulation is almost as good.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I never see Phoenix teams in arena to fight them.
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Phoenix will never be arena viable.
    Drazz127 wrote: »
    Pheonix would be arena viable if you have them all g12 with zetas.
    An issue with the arena is that when the computer controls the Phoenix

    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|
    ┳┻| _
    ┻┳| •.•) no one is talking about arena
    ┳┻|⊂ノ
    ┻┳|

    So when I'm looking at whether or not a character, or group of characters, is worthy of investing valuable credits, gear, mods, etc, I ask myself.
    1. How are they in arena? This is the MOST important question, because arena is the main source of crystals. Your best characters, zetas, gear, mods, everything should be prioritized to your arena team. Phoenix is awful in arena, and that is worth mentioning on any discussion regarding how good they are.
    2. Now, regarding all the other areas of the game, they certainly have their uses. For a player just starting out, I would highly recommend farming them first and foremost. However, from the perspective of a day 1 player, as long as you can beat Thrawn, Assault Battles, and the required TB waves, they are not worth giving valuable raid gear, and certainly not zetas. Anything they can do, other toons can do better, and you don't need to have 5 of the same tag to pull it off. When CG first introduced them, they were awful. Now, they're good, but not great.
    Of course, all this is my personal opinion, and I'm still bitter about Disney cancelling the more mature Clone Wars for the less mature Rebels, especially since Clone Wars was about to canonize Revan.

    +1
    Crystals are the lifeblood of the game. Most players are not whales and do not have the luxury of leveling and gearing an entire Squad that can’t compete in high end Arena. I’ll get them to the minimum required for events and just be content with wherever they end up on TB combat missions.

    Well, OP could change title to say Phoenix is stronger and underestimated in all areas of the game but Arena and I’d agree.
  • Currently my Phoenix are as follows
    Zeta Kanan G12
    Ezra G11
    Zeta Zeb G10
    Chopper G9
    Hera G8
    Sabine G8

    Physical Damage on Kanan is 2640. The 40% once added pushes that to 3696. Again leaving possibility of Offense up buff that can add more. This combined with his counter attack makes his damage output well above the horrible damage everybody claims about Phoenix.

    And I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of the damage Zeb has been doing since I Zeta'd him.

    And as another person commented, Kanan and Zeb seem to survive even after Hera dies.

    Lastly I will again say their arena issue is more an AI issue. They aren't nearly as good when the computer controls them on defense.
Sign In or Register to comment.