Territory War Ties [Merged]

Replies

  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    put some more good teams on defence, it's worth the risk. Maybe you don't have enough teams to clear the entire board left for offence, maybe they can't clear the entire board because your def teams are too good. Whatever happens, you'll get equal or better rewards than from a draw.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Just to be clear here: I do NOT want CG/EA to change the current system.

    I realize that "always tie" might be an issue for s very specific segment of guilds (of which I am part), but I don't a tie-breaker put in place that could make things worse.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565
    12051 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Hawk_Eye wrote: »
    Clearing the board first is not an option. With international guilds, it doesnt make sense if one guild can get on before the other.

    This. I find it distasteful and unsportsmanlike to reward a guild for living in a more convenient time zone.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Peer
    299 posts Member
    If all got 1st place rewards for a tie every guild would set trash defense squads and allow the other guild to clear the map in 15 minutes.
  • I think the best idea is I’ve read is to award points based on defensive holds. The easiest idea to implement would be to have 3 reward levels.

    Utimately either way will preserve the integrity of the mode, but there’s a whole new strategy aspect to awarding points based on defensive holds. We would start to see stronger defensive teams placed more often and the opposing guild would be forced to attack those teams with stronger toons. It should eliminate the current strategy of just wearing down those tough teams.
  • leef wrote: »
    put some more good teams on defence, it's worth the risk. Maybe you don't have enough teams to clear the entire board left for offence, maybe they can't clear the entire board because your def teams are too good. Whatever happens, you'll get equal or better rewards than from a draw.

    I am coming around to this line of thinking. So much so, that I don't want them to change anything in TW yet.

    Max offense only guarantees you a loss (because it guarantees a tie - which rewards-wise is the same as a loss).

    Max defense is the only option that actually gives you a legitimate chance at a win (better rewards).

    Because if you go max defense and still lose, the rewards are the same as a tie.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • PremierVenoth
    2285 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Single banner for a defense win. FFFIIIXXXEDDDD!!!!!!!!!

    EDIT - of course, I understand what we'll get is more lame platoons that require P2P toons and/or CLS, MT, to fill and it'll come down to being more like TB , which few people love as much as this....
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Just to be clear here: I do NOT want CG/EA to change the current system.

    I realize that "always tie" might be an issue for s very specific segment of guilds (of which I am part), but I don't a tie-breaker put in place that could make things worse.

    The whole point of my post isn't to change the system, it's to point out that ties aren't as inevitable as people on this forum say they are.
    If anything has to change, it's more defence slots for the high GP guilds. That way they'll run out of teams if both guilds go for the win by going full def, just like the lower GP guilds are.
    I'm seeying posts by players that are in 70/80mil guilds that are complaining about ties. That's definately a strategy issue on their, or on their enemies part, not an issue with TW itself.
    The cut off point is as described in the OP. If you're not able to win vs your top 4 def teams with the remainder of your rosters (on average), there's really no reason for a tie to happen at all.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Yesac
    353 posts Member
    Good question. Last TW we fell in the 80-90 range. We pit meta squads in two middle territories and were able to pull off a win. It was amusing watching the other team try again and again to take down g12 NS squads. We set good defenses but kept strong offenses too, close to 50/50. The other team set about the same defense, maybe slightly fewer meta teams. Our better defenses won by two territories. We grew 10mill GP between TW due to a ten person swap with another guild. We did the same defensive strategy, but we tied this time. The other guild set maybe 15 meta defenses all around. Everything else was in the 65-85k range. They went offense heavy. It took them much longer to clear our defenses, but they still had enough offensive power. It was almost as if they were playing for a tie. Our job on offense was much less stressful because of their poor defenses, but tying is lame, and I can foresee this happening even if we set more powerful defenses. I support awarding one banner for every defensive stand. Why not? That would immediately eliminate ties. Or you could do a deploy after clearing the map. Either way.

  • They didn't say it was 5% of the top guilds. They said 5% of guilds and (which you're conveniently leaving out) "guilds with high GP would disproportionately end in a tie". So they obviously know about the situation and are working through solutions (I'd assume).

    For what it's worth - Ties are going to happen when there are deeper rosters and the ability to cover the whole board. Once you get "too deep" (i.e. mega guilds with 150+ GP) - the ties stop as the teams become harder.
  • We need to also check win/losses that happened by exactly 10 points too.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • 88M vs 89M GP and suprise! DRAW yes TW is broken.
  • It is.
    https://swgoh.gg/u/totenteufel/
    “When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” George R R Martin
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    you're, or the enemy guild is doing it wrong. Set stronger def, you won't draw.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Set stronger defence as I’ve stayed it was taking them loads of team to get through wake up.

    Set stronger defence you wouldn’t necessarily get through yourself. So easy as that then why are most top guilds drawing then leef? Get your head out the sand.
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    Paulos999 wrote: »
    Set stronger defence as I’ve stayed it was taking them loads of team to get through wake up.

    Set stronger defence you wouldn’t necessarily get through yourself. So easy as that then why are most top guilds drawing then leef? Get your head out the sand.

    100m GP isn't a top guild.
    Not getting through the enemy defences is a risk worth taking. You might win, you might lose, either way you get equal or better rewards as you get from a draw. It is you, and others like you, who should get the sand out of their head, not me.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    you're, or the enemy guild is doing it wrong. Set stronger def, you won't draw.

    This is not true. Even if I set my best 4 teams on defense, I could still get past them with the rest of my roster. While I agree that the only way to avoid ties is setting strong defense, doing so (even if both guilds do it) does not prevent a tie from occurring.

    There's a "sweet spot" (or sour, depending on your perspective) where guilds have deep enough rosters to have strong enough offensive teams, but not enough g12, fully modded defensive teams to hold on defense.

    That range seems to be 110 million GP to about 130 million GP or so - with a little more on each end depending on matchups, guild organization, etc.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • The deciding factor should be time, whichever guild finishes first, in the case where both guilds destroy the others defenses.
  • Achilles wrote: »
    B_O_S_S_K wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    B_O_S_S_K wrote: »
    In another thread someone suggested a small banner amount award for a defensive victory. To me this seems like a good approach to diminish the amount of ties. Then award any guilds that still end up in a tie the victory award.

    i disagree. The way to diminish the amount of ties is to go full def. Losing banners (or giving banners to the enemy) by losing on offence will reduce the usefullness of your entire roster.

    I don't see your logic, but I know people have concerns about the banners for successful defense. I think any of those issues are minor in comparison to the likelihood of ties. Full defense sounds like a strategy that would diminish ties by ensuring a loss for the guild employing that strategy.

    His logic is: Guilds will start maxing def and watch the opponents guild feeding them additional banners, while they dont do anything at all.

    That isn't what he is saying, though. He is saying that with the rules as is, full defense is the way to diminish ties.

    I had disagreed. After reading more anecdotal posts in this and other threads I'm not as inclined to disagree anymore, though.
    B_O_S_S_K in SW:G | G O R N in ST:T
  • I am greatly enjoying the Territory Wars event, however, if two evenly matched guilds are placed against each other and both have active participants, the likelihood of a tie is rather high.

    I know the developers have been looking into this, but I would like to offer our guilds idea and hear what the community believes could be an effective solution.

    My guild Please Wash Your Hans(102m GP) thinks by simply allowing 5 banners for a defensive victory that the issue of the tie would be almost 0 chance of happening.

    By having it this way time zones will not matter, your guilds will need to be smart with how you place your defensive units and use your offensive units.

    I would love to hear feedback from the community on their possible solutions or ideas on how to remove the issue of a tie.
  • and what happens when an american guild gets matched with a european guild and 1 of them finish it while the other is still asleep.
    not going to happen really wish people would stop suggesting this stupidity.
    guilds are worldwide not 1 timezone
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    you're, or the enemy guild is doing it wrong. Set stronger def, you won't draw.

    This is not true. Even if I set my best 4 teams on defense, I could still get past them with the rest of my roster. While I agree that the only way to avoid ties is setting strong defense, doing so (even if both guilds do it) does not prevent a tie from occurring.

    There's a "sweet spot" (or sour, depending on your perspective) where guilds have deep enough rosters to have strong enough offensive teams, but not enough g12, fully modded defensive teams to hold on defense.

    That range seems to be 110 million GP to about 130 million GP or so - with a little more on each end depending on matchups, guild organization, etc.

    I'm predicting alot of people will soon come around to my way of thinking. 110m GP seems a bit low for draws to become unenevitable and his guild is only 100m GP.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Xerrath wrote: »
    I am greatly enjoying the Territory Wars event, however, if two evenly matched guilds are placed against each other and both have active participants, the likelihood of a tie is rather high.

    I know the developers have been looking into this, but I would like to offer our guilds idea and hear what the community believes could be an effective solution.

    My guild Please Wash Your Hans(102m GP) thinks by simply allowing 5 banners for a defensive victory that the issue of the tie would be almost 0 chance of happening.

    By having it this way time zones will not matter, your guilds will need to be smart with how you place your defensive units and use your offensive units.

    I would love to hear feedback from the community on their possible solutions or ideas on how to remove the issue of a tie.

    You make possible to put until 50 teams in defense per territory . It s could be a solution
  • 24 hrs... But then again, I find TW an unnecessary event.
  • That’s better than what I was thinking—I was thinking most defensive wins would break the tie, but 5 banners for a defensive tie is better because you’ll get those banners whether you tie or not.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    Paulos999 wrote: »
    Lol leef Obviously knows best...

    Top guild or not the point still stands from 90 mill GP plus most guilds are drawing stop being an ****.

    Not arguing, just read any social platforms you will see most top guilds are drawing.

    Not knocking it at all I’m loving it, but this draw situation needs sorting.

    Your guild must be awesome if 100 mill isn’t part of a group of top guilds, out of the thousands of guilds that aren’t there.

    Well, not most 90mil plus guilds are drawing and i'm not being an .....
    I'm only giving the reason why they're drawing and how to prevent that from happening. You could also whine about TW being broken ofcourse and leave it up to ea/cg to "fix" it.
    Atleast try to come up with a better argument than "read any social platform to see most top guilds are drawing".
    My guild is 105mil GP. I wouldn't call my guild awesome in terms of being very good tbh, we're kinda casual, but we've all been playing for a long time.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Second TW again ended up in a tie for us :(
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    We are set to get our first TW win today. Top 50 guild. It can be done, only thing is, both guilds have to play to win. Playing it safe ain’t going to cut it.

    I’d still like to see minor points for defense though. Cuz if any guild doesn’t see this and plays it safe, then they screw both guilds. Defense points would nullify this. Plus it would add another dimension to the game. Also, a weaker guild could decide to play it safe just to screw the stronger guild
  • leef
    13177 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    We are set to get our first TW win today. Top 50 guild. It can be done, only thing is, both guilds have to play to win. Playing it safe ain’t going to cut it.

    I’d still like to see minor points for defense though. Cuz if any guild doesn’t see this and plays it safe, then they screw both guilds. Defense points would nullify this. Plus it would add another dimension to the game. Also, a weaker guild could decide to play it safe just to screw the stronger guild

    I agree, if either one of the guilds plays it safe, a draw will become very likely to happen.
    But I think adding defence points would make it overly complicated. I like TW because the battles are pretty straight forward, having to worry about losing even more than we currently have to doesn't make it more fun imo. It will also reduce the usefullness of your entire roster, weaker characters that could be used to soften up the enemy or make them waste their specials won't be (as) usefull anymore.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    We are set to get our first TW win today. Top 50 guild. It can be done, only thing is, both guilds have to play to win. Playing it safe ain’t going to cut it.

    I’d still like to see minor points for defense though. Cuz if any guild doesn’t see this and plays it safe, then they screw both guilds. Defense points would nullify this. Plus it would add another dimension to the game. Also, a weaker guild could decide to play it safe just to screw the stronger guild

    I really dislike the defensive points idea. But I believe you can probably avoid a tie like you said but all your top squads need to go into defense. We tried using a lot better defensive squads wasn't enough to avoid a tie. Only if you're 100% defense will you avoid it. My belief anyway.
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