Territory War Ties [Merged]

Replies

  • I can see two ways to almost always prevent a tie from occuring.
    1. The first guild to clear all sections of the map wins and the event is over.
    2. In the attack phase, if you attack a defensive squad and lose, the person on the opposing team that placed that squad gets a certain number of points i.e. 2. This would mean that you gain extra points for setting very difficult defensive teams that require several opponent teams to beat!
  • Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    We are set to get our first TW win today. Top 50 guild. It can be done, only thing is, both guilds have to play to win. Playing it safe ain’t going to cut it.

    I’d still like to see minor points for defense though. Cuz if any guild doesn’t see this and plays it safe, then they screw both guilds. Defense points would nullify this. Plus it would add another dimension to the game. Also, a weaker guild could decide to play it safe just to screw the stronger guild

    I agree, if either one of the guilds plays it safe, a draw will become very likely to happen.
    But I think adding defence points would make it overly complicated. I like TW because the battles are pretty straight forward, having to worry about losing even more than we currently have to doesn't make it more fun imo. It will also reduce the usefullness of your entire roster, weaker characters that could be used to soften up the enemy or make them waste their specials won't be (as) usefull anymore.

    I do agree that adding defensive points could make the system a lot less fun for some if not many. Nobody likes losing and being penalized for that loss. But really, any loss at all wether you give them points or not, is a blow because you have one less team to fight with later on.

    I understand casual play. Wanting to play this game without worry about really winning or losing. It’s why there are people who are comfortable being top 200 in. Arena. And that’s fine. But TW is the best competition format we have. It should not be casual for this reason.

    Not everyone will feel that way, so if there is a better solution, I’d still like one of its not for defensive wins.
  • LukeDukem8
    383 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    I would like to see defense play a bigger role. We all know that defense is terrible with the way AI runs it, so i was thinking you could give set bonuses to the defense in certain territories. Speed in one, max health in another, protection in another. At least it puts a little more strategy into which teams you put where.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.

    Au contraire. There is MORE strategy on offense because now you have to work with less meta toons. You need unique synergies and to conserve your better toons in ways that will allow you to beat more teams.

    There will be more character usage because you have to burn through more toons to get through those tough defenses and clear the toons that we’re left behind. Calculating teams based on currently unknown strategies since this is not the norm.
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.

    Au contraire. There is MORE strategy on offense because now you have to work with less meta toons. You need unique synergies and to conserve your better toons in ways that will allow you to beat more teams.

    There will be more character usage because you have to burn through more toons to get through those tough defenses and clear the toons that we’re left behind. Calculating teams based on currently unknown strategies since this is not the norm.

    I agree people will need to still reserve strong squads to get through the tough defense it will take more strategy know that if you lose you are aiding the other guilds points.

    People don’t want to see defensive value but I don’t see a more fair way to break ties given time zone constraints.

  • We tied as well. Worst part about it is that we could've done NOTHING and gotten the same rewards. Instead we planned, used chat, coordinated attacks, etc..I don't understand why both guilds are punished instead of rewarded for their hard work???
  • In an ideal world if you have some honour..and you see that the other guild beat all your defensive squads and you will eventualy end up in a tie..you let them win...but that's my opinion...if not both guilds loose..so..
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.

    Au contraire. There is MORE strategy on offense because now you have to work with less meta toons. You need unique synergies and to conserve your better toons in ways that will allow you to beat more teams.

    There will be more character usage because you have to burn through more toons to get through those tough defenses and clear the toons that we’re left behind. Calculating teams based on currently unknown strategies since this is not the norm.

    This just forces you to use counter squads and adds nothing to the game. If you run into a squad. You can just have someone look up on here what the counter to said squad is and do that. That's the easiest and smartest way to play under defensive points system. I think that's insanely boring. But if your not using the direct counter you would be letting your guild down. You could lose.
  • And tie #2. Despite a very heavy defense and still running the board in a couple of hours we get to the last 1.5 and we finally tie. It was entertaining to watch teams take 11 to 20 attempts on the last 30 battles but in the end it comes down to numbers. What a waste of time and effort, forfeiting guarantees the same reward. This is already getting old and we need a fix, ASAP. It will not make me feel better to get slotted with a team 20 mil gp below us and win, I want a chance to truly measure our ability to strategize and win against stronger or comparable teams. Please, please add a loss banner for holding defensively...
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.

    Au contraire. There is MORE strategy on offense because now you have to work with less meta toons. You need unique synergies and to conserve your better toons in ways that will allow you to beat more teams.

    There will be more character usage because you have to burn through more toons to get through those tough defenses and clear the toons that we’re left behind. Calculating teams based on currently unknown strategies since this is not the norm.

    This just forces you to use counter squads and adds nothing to the game. If you run into a squad. You can just have someone look up on here what the counter to said squad is and do that. That's the easiest and smartest way to play under defensive points system. I think that's insanely boring. But if your not using the direct counter you would be letting your guild down. You could lose.

    As it is, even without defensive points, you should absolutely be using counter squads, else you are letting your guild down. If you lose on offense, you may not currently be giving their team points, but you are certainly losing that team to fight with later on.

    Counter teams are still the best way to play, regardless of no defensive points.
  • This continued Draw business is unacceptable. There are no draws in War, especially in what seems to be designed as a war of attrition...

    With that said, change the format in two ways. One, if your squad wins the battle, then allow that squad to be used again. Just like GW. Second, the first guild to conquer all enemy territory wins. Period.
  • Centermass wrote: »
    This continued Draw business is unacceptable. There are no draws in War, especially in what seems to be designed as a war of attrition...

    With that said, change the format in two ways. One, if your squad wins the battle, then allow that squad to be used again. Just like GW. Second, the first guild to conquer all enemy territory wins. Period.

    The bolded is an absolutely horrible idea (and I am in a guild that cleared the enemies territory first both times). All that does is give an advantage based on which guilds live in the more convenient time zone.

    I MUCH prefer the idea of defensive bonuses than offense. The AI is terrible.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • kalidor
    1730 posts Member
    I think that they need to:
    • Increase the number of squads/fleets per area across the board. It's too low now. Especially up the fleets since there are only 2 areas (from 25 -> 40, say).
    • Defensive fleets that survive should regain some % of health and protection. Maybe some stacking defensive bonuses they survive more attacks - (1) +10% defense, +20% TM gain (2) -1 cooldowns (3) +10% offense, etc.
    • If that still results in ties, use tie-breakers. 1) most number of defensive wins 2) lower GP team.
    However, I agree that a few more should go by to see if there are strategies which can avoid ties altogether. I don't want the devs to rush into anything.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • SinisterOi
    27 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Tuscan21 wrote: »
    If you wipe out the oppositions defence completely you get first place whether you win or draw.

    Just 100% wrong. Had several of the Chaos guilds tie. Why do you think all these people are here
  • In my opinion when there is a tie in TWs and both teams finished the map, the tie breaker should be the team that finished first gets the first place rewards and the team the finished second gets the second place rewards. It makes it more fun to get your guild excited to finish the battle together quicker. If that can't be done, then maybe we could have a "Tie level" of rewards in-between 1st and 2nd place level of rewards.
  • leef
    12788 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    We are set to get our first TW win today. Top 50 guild. It can be done, only thing is, both guilds have to play to win. Playing it safe ain’t going to cut it.

    I’d still like to see minor points for defense though. Cuz if any guild doesn’t see this and plays it safe, then they screw both guilds. Defense points would nullify this. Plus it would add another dimension to the game. Also, a weaker guild could decide to play it safe just to screw the stronger guild

    I agree, if either one of the guilds plays it safe, a draw will become very likely to happen.
    But I think adding defence points would make it overly complicated. I like TW because the battles are pretty straight forward, having to worry about losing even more than we currently have to doesn't make it more fun imo. It will also reduce the usefullness of your entire roster, weaker characters that could be used to soften up the enemy or make them waste their specials won't be (as) usefull anymore.

    I do agree that adding defensive points could make the system a lot less fun for some if not many. Nobody likes losing and being penalized for that loss. But really, any loss at all wether you give them points or not, is a blow because you have one less team to fight with later on.

    I understand casual play. Wanting to play this game without worry about really winning or losing. It’s why there are people who are comfortable being top 200 in. Arena. And that’s fine. But TW is the best competition format we have. It should not be casual for this reason.

    Not everyone will feel that way, so if there is a better solution, I’d still like one of its not for defensive wins.

    Adding more defence slots for higher GP guilds should prevent ties even in the highest brackets. Granted, they both still have to go for the win in order for it to work. But like i said earlier, why not go for the win?
    It's just 5% ties according to the devs. They also mentioned that percentage is higher for higher GP brackets. So if simply adding more defence slots to the higher GP brackets does the trick, wich would likely be the case based on the information provided by ea/cg, why even bother with defensive win banners?
    It's hard to imagine such a system without the specifics like how many banners do you get for a def win etc. But i can foresee scenario's where it pays off to not attack. That just doesn't sound fun to me. The whole banners for defensive wins just sounds bad to me. It could end up being straight up horrible and not at all how the players thought it would be, whether it be due to it not being a good plan in the first place or just ea/cg doing a horrible job at implementing it. Remember, the other 95% of the guilds aren't even having a draw/tie issue to begin with, casual or not casual.
    This all still doesn't solve the issue that either one of the guilds can just force a tie/draw though. I just can't imagine why anyone would go for a tie/draw. Maybe they should increase the rewards for a win? I dunno.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins changes the node completely. Less strategy on offense. Less character usage. I personally don't want that to happen.

    Au contraire. There is MORE strategy on offense because now you have to work with less meta toons. You need unique synergies and to conserve your better toons in ways that will allow you to beat more teams.

    There will be more character usage because you have to burn through more toons to get through those tough defenses and clear the toons that we’re left behind. Calculating teams based on currently unknown strategies since this is not the norm.

    This just forces you to use counter squads and adds nothing to the game. If you run into a squad. You can just have someone look up on here what the counter to said squad is and do that. That's the easiest and smartest way to play under defensive points system. I think that's insanely boring. But if your not using the direct counter you would be letting your guild down. You could lose.

    As it is, even without defensive points, you should absolutely be using counter squads, else you are letting your guild down. If you lose on offense, you may not currently be giving their team points, but you are certainly losing that team to fight with later on.

    Counter teams are still the best way to play, regardless of no defensive points.

    I never said it wasn't the best way Its boring. The ability to use your full roster is what makes tw fun for me. Having to sit the factions that haven't gotten reworks so you don't cost you guild a defensive point would wreck tw for me. The fact that I can use factions such as separatists in strategic ways to dampen a squad greatly is fun and the most rewarding thing for me. And don't worry about me letting my guild down. We tied/lost like everyone else.
  • Title.
    We finish every squads, so does the opponents. WITH 15 MILLION GP LOWER than them. Also we finish the battle 3 hours earlier than them.
    Does it means the reward only depend on GP not STRATEGY?
    As I said, if the reward for us is second, then this TW is totally unbalanced. Good luck EA.
  • leef
    12788 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Centermass wrote: »
    This continued Draw business is unacceptable. There are no draws in War, especially in what seems to be designed as a war of attrition...

    With that said, change the format in two ways. One, if your squad wins the battle, then allow that squad to be used again. Just like GW. Second, the first guild to conquer all enemy territory wins. Period.

    The bolded is an absolutely horrible idea (and I am in a guild that cleared the enemies territory first both times). All that does is give an advantage based on which guilds live in the more convenient time zone.

    I MUCH prefer the idea of defensive bonuses than offense. The AI is terrible.

    I hope it doesn't come down to these two options. (and i assume it won't)
    If it does, definately go for def win banners. Winning by clearing the board first is simply a horrible way to solve this issue. That would definately make TW worse than it currently is.
    Imo both sollutions would make it worse than it currently is, but def win banners could potentially be better atleast, where as clearing the board first couldn't.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • That won't work because of time zones.
  • I saw some guys said huge differ in your TW. I would say easy boy...
  • Ender22 wrote: »
    Themy wrote: »
    Defensive points idea is ****. I don’t want to spend an extra 5 hours organizing 50 people to play perfect combos in order to win one more zeta and a few more currency. Just up the gp necessary on defense squads and let both teams get first place for clearing the board for guilds over 100 mil.

    Then you don’t want real competition. And that’s ok, take second place if you don’t want to win

    Well said
  • What if a guild is based in a time zone where the TW starts at 1am?
  • leef
    12788 posts Member
    kalidor wrote: »
    I think that they need to:
    • Increase the number of squads/fleets per area across the board. It's too low now. Especially up the fleets since there are only 2 areas (from 25 -> 40, say).
    • Defensive fleets that survive should regain some % of health and protection. Maybe some stacking defensive bonuses they survive more attacks - (1) +10% defense, +20% TM gain (2) -1 cooldowns (3) +10% offense, etc.
    • If that still results in ties, use tie-breakers. 1) most number of defensive wins 2) lower GP team.
    However, I agree that a few more should go by to see if there are strategies which can avoid ties altogether. I don't want the devs to rush into anything.

    I like the most defensive wins as a tie breaker. It won't change gameplay/strategy that much, not at all even for guilds wich aren't having a draw issue to begin with. It's not hard to implement. Overall effenciency should be rewarded.
    Downside is that it might lead to guilds going for the draw even more than they're now because they have faith in their own ability to slaughter teams effenciently. Not sure if that adds to the strategy, or takes it away to be honest.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Now, we see how TW work, next time we match a higher GP guild. We just set zero squads and wait for free gift from EA.
  • What if the tie breaker was fewest attacking teams?

    Something both sides could control and would require more strategy as you would have no way of knowing who was winning until it was over.

    Not sure how easy it would be to track by the system though.
  • Some kind of tie breaking mechanic should be implemented. So far my guild has tied 2x which does mean the match making system is working fairly well but so well that it doesn't seem likely for matches to not end in a tie from my experience so far. Ours came down to the wire today with our opponent finishing off our last territory with about an hour left on the clock but that makes 2nd place rewards kind of anti climatic.
  • The entire way they have implemented TW is a broken, silly system that will be gamed no matter what tweaks they put on it to try to make it "fair". The punishing of ties with both sides losing is just the cherry on top of this Bad Idea Sundae.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    I think that they need to:
    • Increase the number of squads/fleets per area across the board. It's too low now. Especially up the fleets since there are only 2 areas (from 25 -> 40, say).
    • Defensive fleets that survive should regain some % of health and protection. Maybe some stacking defensive bonuses they survive more attacks - (1) +10% defense, +20% TM gain (2) -1 cooldowns (3) +10% offense, etc.
    • If that still results in ties, use tie-breakers. 1) most number of defensive wins 2) lower GP team.
    However, I agree that a few more should go by to see if there are strategies which can avoid ties altogether. I don't want the devs to rush into anything.

    I like the most defensive wins as a tie breaker. It won't change gameplay/strategy that much, not at all even for guilds wich aren't having a draw issue to begin with. It's not hard to implement. Overall effenciency should be rewarded.
    Downside is that it might lead to guilds going for the draw even more than they're now because they have faith in their own ability to slaughter teams effenciently. Not sure if that adds to the strategy, or takes it away to be honest.

    Ooo as a tie breaker. I can dig that. Perhaps even more so than just adding points
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