It's time to talk about platoons in P4+
I am not going to sling mud here - but we do need the developers to have a conversation about platoon requirements.
In the last month, these have gotten progressively more punishing - and I have a hard time believing that this isn't by design. (Developer responses suggest that it is entirely intentional).
The original sales pitch for platoons was that it would grant utility to a bunch of older characters people had starred up in ages gone by. Characters that would clearly never receive love. I was fine with this premise, but recent moves have converted platoons to a "spend or fail" mechanic -- and I am not okay with that -- not as it is in the game right now.
Background
For those that may be unaware. From phase 4 onward in this current LS TB (and similarly in DS TB last time) we can now see any character in the game appear in platoons, with no limit, and no restrictions.
What this practically means, is that we now see difficult to acquire toons (BB-8, R2, General Kenobi, Hermit Yoda) appear multiple times in the platoons. We also now see characters and ships still locked behind paywall (SF TIE Pilot, Wicket, SF TIE Fighter, TIE Silencer) appear multiple times in the platoon list.
When SF TIE Fighter went into the platoons list during the last LS TB, it (like other rare picks) was still slot restricted. It could appear only once per platoon, and only in platoons 5 and 6. This meant you would need at least two people in the guild to own this ship if you wanted to reliably complete the platoons.
But now those restrictions are also gone, allowing the game to select the SF TIE in any platoon, and multiple times per platoon. Practically, this means you could see a ship locked behind a paywall appear up to 10 times in the platoons.
The Problem for the Players
This has the net result that we players can basically expect to never clear platoons. The goalposts have been moved -again- which destroys the trust the players have in the development team. Will they move again? But worse, it sets up a pattern where when more new characters enter the game, the goalposts for completing platoons will automatically move again.
Players want to work towards a goal, but platoons aren't a goal any longer. We can't look at what platoons require and say "My guild doesn't have this, so I will work on this", because in the next TB, we might need 8 of that character, instead of 2. It robs the player of any sense of contribution.
It also sends a toxic message to the game's most loyal spenders - the type of player who is willing to buy new characters when they're released. That message is: "I know you've spent a lot of money, but you'd better pony up again or your guild will suffer."
There's a subtler hidden message too: "Even if you do spend now, you'd better get several others in your guild to do it too, or it won't matter"
The Problem for the Developers
If each new toon introduced immediately rolls into platoons, even if my guild could complete them before, they once again cannot.
If this is the new rule, why should we bother working towards platoon required characters at all? The goalposts will just move (and likely before we've 7 starred the ones we were working on before). If the game permanently makes platoons incompletable for our guild, then why should we burn resources building these toons at all?
This new ruleset actually creates an incentive to not spend to build the characters that have been added to platoons.
Not to mention the sentiment it creates amongst the games most hardcore players.
My Requests
1. Come out and clearly explain what your expectations for platoons are, and what the new character selection rules are. If this isn't going to be the new norm, explain to us what will be.
2. Remain open to the possibility that the way its working now in Phase 4 - 6 is a bad idea with long term consequences that can't be expected or measured.
3. Remain open to suggestions that are more palatable to the playerbase, but still achieve what you are hoping for (an incentive to spend money to acquire newer characters)
4. Consider making all platoons in all phases curated. Do not move the goalposts regularly.
My alternate proposal
I dislike bringing complaints without proposing some kind of solution. Even imperfect proposals can create new ideas that will work.
Modify the platoons as follows:
Some reasoning as to why:
I don't think its entirely unfair to ask us to have restricted toons for platoons, but it needs to be within a reasonable set of bounds and not "surprise you need 11 nightsister zombies today"
I set the leader GP to be multiplied, as it provides a kickback for actually levelling the character, but also adds a touch of planning into the platoons as you want the guild to post their strongest character in that slot.
This sets a maximum number of hard selections in platoons of 36 with no more than 2 of a specific hard toon - it makes the other platoon requirements consistent and lets you "build for them".
In the last month, these have gotten progressively more punishing - and I have a hard time believing that this isn't by design. (Developer responses suggest that it is entirely intentional).
The original sales pitch for platoons was that it would grant utility to a bunch of older characters people had starred up in ages gone by. Characters that would clearly never receive love. I was fine with this premise, but recent moves have converted platoons to a "spend or fail" mechanic -- and I am not okay with that -- not as it is in the game right now.
Background
For those that may be unaware. From phase 4 onward in this current LS TB (and similarly in DS TB last time) we can now see any character in the game appear in platoons, with no limit, and no restrictions.
What this practically means, is that we now see difficult to acquire toons (BB-8, R2, General Kenobi, Hermit Yoda) appear multiple times in the platoons. We also now see characters and ships still locked behind paywall (SF TIE Pilot, Wicket, SF TIE Fighter, TIE Silencer) appear multiple times in the platoon list.
When SF TIE Fighter went into the platoons list during the last LS TB, it (like other rare picks) was still slot restricted. It could appear only once per platoon, and only in platoons 5 and 6. This meant you would need at least two people in the guild to own this ship if you wanted to reliably complete the platoons.
But now those restrictions are also gone, allowing the game to select the SF TIE in any platoon, and multiple times per platoon. Practically, this means you could see a ship locked behind a paywall appear up to 10 times in the platoons.
The Problem for the Players
This has the net result that we players can basically expect to never clear platoons. The goalposts have been moved -again- which destroys the trust the players have in the development team. Will they move again? But worse, it sets up a pattern where when more new characters enter the game, the goalposts for completing platoons will automatically move again.
Players want to work towards a goal, but platoons aren't a goal any longer. We can't look at what platoons require and say "My guild doesn't have this, so I will work on this", because in the next TB, we might need 8 of that character, instead of 2. It robs the player of any sense of contribution.
It also sends a toxic message to the game's most loyal spenders - the type of player who is willing to buy new characters when they're released. That message is: "I know you've spent a lot of money, but you'd better pony up again or your guild will suffer."
There's a subtler hidden message too: "Even if you do spend now, you'd better get several others in your guild to do it too, or it won't matter"
The Problem for the Developers
If each new toon introduced immediately rolls into platoons, even if my guild could complete them before, they once again cannot.
If this is the new rule, why should we bother working towards platoon required characters at all? The goalposts will just move (and likely before we've 7 starred the ones we were working on before). If the game permanently makes platoons incompletable for our guild, then why should we burn resources building these toons at all?
This new ruleset actually creates an incentive to not spend to build the characters that have been added to platoons.
Not to mention the sentiment it creates amongst the games most hardcore players.
My Requests
1. Come out and clearly explain what your expectations for platoons are, and what the new character selection rules are. If this isn't going to be the new norm, explain to us what will be.
2. Remain open to the possibility that the way its working now in Phase 4 - 6 is a bad idea with long term consequences that can't be expected or measured.
3. Remain open to suggestions that are more palatable to the playerbase, but still achieve what you are hoping for (an incentive to spend money to acquire newer characters)
4. Consider making all platoons in all phases curated. Do not move the goalposts regularly.
My alternate proposal
I dislike bringing complaints without proposing some kind of solution. Even imperfect proposals can create new ideas that will work.
Modify the platoons as follows:
- Each platoon has three horizontal rows of five characters/ships.
- The first ship/character in the list from left to right is the leader
- The leader has the GP of the character assigned multiplied by a decent factor (let's say 10)
- The other four characters in the list are followers
- Leaders can be selected from difficult to acquire / paywall toons
- The playerbase should be given some defined grace time before a new paywall toon is added to platoons (let's say, when the toon becomes available in shipments)
- Leaders are quantity restricted to one of a single character/ship across the territory - they can however appear in both ground territories once (for a maximum of two)
- Followers are curated selections in all phases (instead of just P1 - P3)
Some reasoning as to why:
I don't think its entirely unfair to ask us to have restricted toons for platoons, but it needs to be within a reasonable set of bounds and not "surprise you need 11 nightsister zombies today"
I set the leader GP to be multiplied, as it provides a kickback for actually levelling the character, but also adds a touch of planning into the platoons as you want the guild to post their strongest character in that slot.
This sets a maximum number of hard selections in platoons of 36 with no more than 2 of a specific hard toon - it makes the other platoon requirements consistent and lets you "build for them".
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Replies
I'm aware of that post, and consider it insufficient.
Well i dont know what to tell you then. It says phases 4 - 6 will pull from ALL available units....and they are. Don't see it changing anytime soon but who knows.
that greedy move may have negative affects on them.
no one will pay thousands for a toon to just donate it in platoons.
a few guilds stopped working for platoons, even stopped farming lobot and similar toons.
With the new requirements everything I've accomplished seems pointless. It doesn't matter if we manage to fill 4 or 14 - for as long as that one last character is $$$ only, we will not complete that platoon. And those few rare characters are not just behind a paywall - they are behind a very large paywall. I'm not talking $50 here, it's more like $500+.
Ultimately, it no longer makes sense for me to put efforts and $$ into characters I have no use outside of TB. I don't think this is what you intended.
Please, consider changing those requirements.
This is my biggest concern, I can already see it within our Guild as well motivation and participation is severly dropping. With DS TB beeing the negative peak.
Working for platoons etc. feels almost pointless at the moment
https://swgoh.gg/g/6666/wieaiaieliegi0e/
Begs the question of 1) what's the point of platoons in LS TB, really, and 2) why make them infinitely hard to fill with each new toon release?
I'd rather we had 6 platoon missions - single wave, difficult battles - and certain toons just get an advantage in them. Protec Rebel Supply lines -- why not a special mission ability "repair supplies" and a 6th toon "Rebel supplies" and you have to keep healing the supplies while also destroying the enemy.
This, of course, is in reverse of DS TB where I couldn't handle the rebel straffe - it was way too difficult. My best G11/g12 Sith couldn't complete all waves. The only thing reliable was my NS where, I dare say, the rebel strafe was kind of useful.
When rancor came out, my guild got created with Heroic Rancor as goal. that later changed to AAT, hAAT and lastly TB. But no more, there is no goal in TB any more, it is like chasing the end of the rainbow
With TW and loads of small new ways to get gear and zeta's lately, I actually thought the game was on it's way back on track. I was wrong.
If new paywalled toons are constantly being added then it will NEVER be possible to fill platoons without paying hundreds/thousands. Every time you get close new pay toons will destroy your progress. For top end guilds that may not be a problem. But low end guilds need to get platoon bonuses, and they will never make progress in filling them.
It's also an issue because NRAJ said in a podcast that they really want Platoons to matter for completing CMs. They want it balanced so you can't skate through just on gear/mods. This was really noticeable in DS TB where I had 70-80k crits wipe out my full health toons. Hopefully that gets dialed back per their comments about its difficulty. But if their intent is that platoons matter that much, then moving the goalposts every time we get close is crooked.
I love 95% of what the devs have done lately. I love TB, and TW. Mods drop at 100% again. The gear wall has been eased to a significant degree. The legendary events are becoming replayable as has been requested many times. They are slowly working through faction passes for all characters. So much good stuff. The platoon thing is the lone glaring kick in the kittens right now IMHO.
What they are doing would be equivalent to changing requirements for legendary events the next time they appear. New toons should never ever be set on platoons, period.
Once more devs only think with their pockets it is such a disappointment. I honestly love this game and believe it to be the best mobile game out there (at least for me) but these "plays" devs keep doing makes me hate them.
The post explains that platoons are in essence a subscription service that requires about $3-6,000 a month to keep pace. To me, that is a terrible change to an already awful game mechanic.
Platoons are not something your guild can work towards. Each month the game will add new characters and you'll need a fistful of them at $300 or so a pop. Our last DS TB platoons had roughly $9000 in new characters.
What's more ridiculous, is you only get about 1 use of the platoons due to them throttling when TB's run, as new characters will be added by the time a TB runs again. It's a whale spending treadmill.
I think they should split the difference. In each phase, have platoons 1-4 be the fixed ones, and have platoons 5 and 6 be the "any characters" ones.
THAT gives you something possible to work towards, while still rewarding whales. As is, it's pretty pointless to even bother with platoons past phase 4.
No other PVE content shifts the goalposts on you and erodes your progress with each new release. It would be like if the Tank increased in HP/Damage etc each week.
Yeah. It really should be more like raids -- each future TB could expand the required characters to include additional pay-walled characters, but the pool should be static within a specific TB.
With the goalposts moving, I wonder why I bothered farming Lobot for LSTB and Urororoooorrrrrrorororororrororororooorrrrr (spelling is approximate) for DSTB, and would advise anyone else not to bother, because it doesn't matter.
As much as what I said above I do believe - the current problem in general is this. If every new toons that pops up goes into Platoons - the "value" ( I dont' have a better terms) of the ones you worked towards goes down rapidly. It was worth getting Lobot when you had some assurance he might be there 4-10 times - but now, he showed up once... so... where's the rewards for the lobot farming now?
Exactly. Future TB (as in whole new maps) can add new unfarmable toons that we'll need to work on, and they should keep those same toons there, so we have a goal to work towards to master the new map. But constantly adding unfarmable requirements to current content is totally demoralizing.
It's not even worth it assuming he'll be there 4-10 times, because all it will take is one Wicket to make a platoon unable to be completed, so filling in the 3 Lobots is ultimately irrelevant.
Not to mentione the end result is that the top guilds (that can do this content) will inevitably decide the right course of action is to ignore impossible platoons and try to build teams that can beat the CMs anyway. Then there will be no need to complete platoons or worry about them.
TB is bad enough (monotonous, repetitive, boring), but making platoons P2P just makes it a joke.
No one is going to shell out hundreds of dollars for a character just to fill 1 platoon slot, especially when 10 other guild members may be required to do the same. It’s just not going to happen Devs.
I doubt most players would miss TB if it were removed from the game permanently. That’s how poorly executed and thought out this feature of the game is.
At this point, I would be happy if they just got rid of it and ran TWs instead.