I think they should split the difference. In each phase, have platoons 1-4 be the fixed ones, and have platoons 5 and 6 be the "any characters" ones.
THAT gives you something possible to work towards, while still rewarding whales. As is, it's pretty pointless to even bother with platoons past phase 4.
I also find this a good solution, assuming two caveats:
1. That the elite toons don't repeat in the random selection of 5/6 in each territory. (so you could have one HY in mid, and one in bottom)
2. That the curated platoons in the PL1 - PL4 allotments aren't updated to include new toons as they are released, and that new "spend or fail" requirements only appear in PL5 and PL6.
I support and completely agree with the original post. Great thoughts and I hope the developers take this heavily into consideration. Platoons tore my old guild apart and my new guildmates constantly complain about it. Good to see a post regarding this - I hope they actually do something about it (soon).
Yeah, I think the key point for CG to consider is that if the back-half platoons always require characters and ships only available via packs or chromium (which will constantly be replaced by new p2p-only toons/ships), then those platoons will always be unachievable to a lot of guilds. Which means that there's no point in farming the farmable toons and ships to 7-stars just to complete platoons, because you won't be able to complete them anyway.
Legendary toons are one thing, but p2p-only toons are too much to ask, if you want the platoons to actually encourage farming.
Good to see the reaction on this thread. Unlike most discussions where it's generally "whiners" vs "show-offs" the reaction is pretty unanimous.
I'm sure that there will be some extreme ends of the spectrum here soon. I personally can't afford pay toons. And I'm fine with hard content I can't finish, and have to build towards. I'm fine with paying players getting a head start. I'm fine with the devs structuring the game to encourage spending. All of which is accomplished if you put a set of pay toons in the platoons, and leave the same ones there. Constantly adding new pay toons means it stays impossible for low spenders, and the spenders feel milked a bit too hard. It's the worst of both worlds.
Maybe we'll get a different response besides "Recruit players into your guild who have these toons/ships".
One of the worst responses ever.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
This is an excellent post about a big frustration point. I don't mind paywalled toons (even raid reward toons like GK/Han/Hoda/Wampa) ending up in platoons - people paying for an advantage should GET an advantage. But when they're in every platoon squad and you can't fill any... that's demoralizing. There's no incentive to progress. When they were only in squads 5&6 of a platoon, that was perfect. If you didn't pay, you couldn't get the full bonus and that's fine. The moving goalposts are not so fine. Because we all knew the extreme wallet warrior guilds would/will max out on the full stars quickly... but now it feels as though the rest of us NEVER will because of this and that's a basket full of fluffy kittens.
a few guilds stopped working for platoons, even stopped farming lobot and similar toons.
This is my biggest concern, I can already see it within our Guild as well motivation and participation is severly dropping. With DS TB beeing the negative peak.
Working for platoons etc. feels almost pointless at the moment
I immediately stopped farming Paploo, Logray, Lobot, Urrrororororror, and any other rare garbage nobody characters. There is no point in farming up those characters when there's a Wicket and a Hermit Yoda right next to them. And I'll certainly NEVER spend money on a new character for the sake of platoons. HAH! They've made it clear that the ante in that game is thousands and thousands of dollars, because it's not about having the newest character, it's about having ALL the newest characters.
Same, I was farming Mob Enforcer because I figured she'd help in platoons. Nope, instead I need to invest in the stock market and hope I make enough money to buy all the new ewok and first order stuff.
I definitely agree that the platoons need to be fixed requirements or at least adding new toons to the requirement list should be 1 month after they are farmable.
As a whale who spends money to get the latest and greatest and spending 200 to 300 to get them to 7 stars and geared buying from shipments. It really is frustrating that you can't actually have any fun using them in combat. You're forced to donate them to the platoons just to complete the platoons requirement.
The excitement and fun factor of playing with your new squad setup is completely destroyed.
For example. In dark side tb. My fun experience gets ruined after Getting 7 stars mother tazlin and zombie and spending money to build a solid night sister team and then you're told no. You must donate these now. So basically I can't have any fun with attacking the rebels and see how many waves I can clear.
Platoons end up being a cash grab money sink for the developers. Its pure pay to win setup. With no fun factor. You're robbed of why you bought the toons in the first place. Because their only purpose is to complete a platoon.
And every time a new toon is introduced the tb difficulty gets jacked up for no reason other than cash grab.
This is the kind of game design that makes whales want to quit spending money and stop playing the game.
C'mon... what could possibly provide a greater sense of accomplishment than paying for a shiny new character that isn't arena viable, is way too OP for the new GW, and can't replace a member of your 6-minute-auto-solo Rancor squad or your +30m point multi-phase-solo Tank squad? Surely that amazing feeling must come from platooning that pay-only character so that you can't actually use it in TB squad compositions. The way that feels must be like the feeling you'd get watching a Leprechaun ride a unicorn over a double rainbow... simply magical.
But in all seriousness, I just don't understand how paywalling the platoons meets the intentions of TB as described... that is, being able to use all the older characters. Because if a guild can't come up with enough pay characters to clear them, does it really matter how many 7* CUP's and Lobot's they have available?
I don't like it, but what incentive do they have by not including them in platoons? Whales will continue to whale because of the sunk cost fallacy and others are presented with yet another reason to transition to heavier spending.
This was all predicted, and brushed aside as conspiracy, when TBs were announced. It really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, especially in light of the BF2 fiasco. This community is like a giant money tree that gets a boost of miracle grow every time the non-gaming investors need some reassurance.
This discussion needs to happen. My p4 platoons were AWFUL, and my guild never had a chance because we didn't happen to have a handful of 5* TIE Silencers, or Hermit Yodas, or Wickets. Absolutely ridiculous.
Look, I get that this game needs to make money. But the devs have turned platoons into a way to taunt us for not paying up. They've become intentional punishment rather than fun.
One, easy solution: No p2p characters in platoons. When they go farmable, THEN they can go into platoons. Incentivize us to work on them; don't punish us for not being in guilds full of whales.
....
One, easy solution: No p2p characters in platoons. When they go farmable, THEN they can go into platoons. Incentivize us to work on them; don't punish us for not being in guilds full of whales.
No matter what feedback they get, the only feedback that matters is how the player base reacts with their money. I find it hard to believe they're intentionally punishing players for ... well, anything. They're as Pavlovian as anybody is. When they do something and the cash starts flowing in, they keep doing it. It's really that simple.
As far as incentivizing the players to work on farmable characters goes, there's just not enough cash in that to bother with.
But it's so much more fun now with p2p toons! /s
Might as well just call them Paytoons now. But I think they've shot themselves in the foot with this one. It's now better to spend money creating 4 super squads (rebs, phoenix, rogue1, jedi) than it is to bother farming for platoons. Because when are you ever going to use ME or CUP? And most won't use wicket or the other ewoks.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
And by the time you catch up on unmasked kylo and friends, you'll have the same amount of unfillable platoon slots as you did before you caught up. It's a treadmill, you'll never actually get anywhere.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
Mainly just echoing the message about every other aspect of the game. If you can't beat it, just work harder.
An observation that people who are claiming it's unfair in this subforum , will be the first to reply in other feedback sections that time and hard work is needed to beat it.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
Mainly just echoing the message about every other aspect of the game. If you can't beat it, just work harder.
An observation that people who are claiming it's unfair in this subforum , will be the first to reply in other feedback sections that time and hard work is needed to beat it.
It's not a question of hard work. No amount of time or hard work is going to allow you to fill these platoons. A guild without mega-whales will simply never be able to do it no matter what.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
Mainly just echoing the message about every other aspect of the game. If you can't beat it, just work harder.
An observation that people who are claiming it's unfair in this subforum , will be the first to reply in other feedback sections that time and hard work is needed to beat it.
It's not a question of hard work. No amount of time or hard work is going to allow you to fill these platoons. A guild without mega-whales will simply never be able to do it no matter what.
I don't disagree with what you wrote. My observation is that if one guild can finish it (and there probably is one, maybe more) it's within the realm of possibilities. At this point in time, it's out of reach for everyone else. Kind of like other aspects of the game.
I'm fine with not being able to fill every platoon. The first time around we lacked all those many Lobots, Paos and new ewoks. We caught up on Lobots, Paos and 2 of the ewoks. We will catch up on unmasked Kylo and his friends eventually as well.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
Mainly just echoing the message about every other aspect of the game. If you can't beat it, just work harder.
An observation that people who are claiming it's unfair in this subforum , will be the first to reply in other feedback sections that time and hard work is needed to beat it.
The whole point of this post is that no amount of hard work will ever complete platoons. They are constantly changing them to new unfarmable $300 characters, and before you even get the chance to put in the work they will change them. Other aspects of the game give you a set challenge to work towards instead of pulling the rug from under you as soon as you get close.
agree or disagree. I just want to point out, with the accessibility of gear increased and new DS toons on the horizon (because we all know we need more for DS TB) and more toons in general coming out with TLJ in theaters. (lets not mention the possibility of lvl cap increase or 6-7 dot mods over the next year)
all of that means that the points value we will not get from closing platoons and going 6/6 in P6 on all missions will be made up at some point and without too much specific effort.
agree or disagree. I just want to point out, with the accessibility of gear increased and new DS toons on the horizon (because we all know we need more for DS TB) and more toons in general coming out with TLJ in theaters. (lets not mention the possibility of lvl cap increase or 6-7 dot mods over the next year)
all of that means that the points value we will not get from closing platoons and going 6/6 in P6 on all missions will be made up at some point and without too much specific effort.
I have a couple of problems with that.
1) There is never a feeling of completing the content if we can never have 6/6 platoons. Actually my guild, 120M is filling less platoons this time than we did the last TB, when we only missed 3. That's a backwards step and it's a big reason that I see a lot of whales saying that this current iteration of platoons actually disincentivizes them from spending.
2) Getting a ton of characters to inflate GP, or getting higher quality mods, and basically brute forcing territories and combat missions, doesn't feel good. Brute forcing stars isn't a challenge. Auto'ing combat missions because you now have 7 dot mods with 40 more speed and 1000 more offense on a set isn't a challenge.
I can understand the basic, non cynical, idea behind updating platoons to include new paywall toons - it can be argued that it's an effort to extend the life of TB's. I can only hope that's the true motivation behind changing the makeup of platoons.
I saw a comment yesterday that perfectly sums up my thoughts on this and includes some of your sentiment too Kyno - "The current iterations of TB will just become obsolete when guilds get 5 power squads each and enough GP that platoons don’t matter. Will 'upsetting' the player base in the meantime be worth it then?"
Replies
I also find this a good solution, assuming two caveats:
1. That the elite toons don't repeat in the random selection of 5/6 in each territory. (so you could have one HY in mid, and one in bottom)
2. That the curated platoons in the PL1 - PL4 allotments aren't updated to include new toons as they are released, and that new "spend or fail" requirements only appear in PL5 and PL6.
Hope it gets listened, though...
Legendary toons are one thing, but p2p-only toons are too much to ask, if you want the platoons to actually encourage farming.
I'm sure that there will be some extreme ends of the spectrum here soon. I personally can't afford pay toons. And I'm fine with hard content I can't finish, and have to build towards. I'm fine with paying players getting a head start. I'm fine with the devs structuring the game to encourage spending. All of which is accomplished if you put a set of pay toons in the platoons, and leave the same ones there. Constantly adding new pay toons means it stays impossible for low spenders, and the spenders feel milked a bit too hard. It's the worst of both worlds.
One of the worst responses ever.
I immediately stopped farming Paploo, Logray, Lobot, Urrrororororror, and any other rare garbage nobody characters. There is no point in farming up those characters when there's a Wicket and a Hermit Yoda right next to them. And I'll certainly NEVER spend money on a new character for the sake of platoons. HAH! They've made it clear that the ante in that game is thousands and thousands of dollars, because it's not about having the newest character, it's about having ALL the newest characters.
Not gonna do it.
As a whale who spends money to get the latest and greatest and spending 200 to 300 to get them to 7 stars and geared buying from shipments. It really is frustrating that you can't actually have any fun using them in combat. You're forced to donate them to the platoons just to complete the platoons requirement.
The excitement and fun factor of playing with your new squad setup is completely destroyed.
For example. In dark side tb. My fun experience gets ruined after Getting 7 stars mother tazlin and zombie and spending money to build a solid night sister team and then you're told no. You must donate these now. So basically I can't have any fun with attacking the rebels and see how many waves I can clear.
Platoons system needs to be redesigned.
And every time a new toon is introduced the tb difficulty gets jacked up for no reason other than cash grab.
This is the kind of game design that makes whales want to quit spending money and stop playing the game.
But in all seriousness, I just don't understand how paywalling the platoons meets the intentions of TB as described... that is, being able to use all the older characters. Because if a guild can't come up with enough pay characters to clear them, does it really matter how many 7* CUP's and Lobot's they have available?
This was all predicted, and brushed aside as conspiracy, when TBs were announced. It really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, especially in light of the BF2 fiasco. This community is like a giant money tree that gets a boost of miracle grow every time the non-gaming investors need some reassurance.
Look, I get that this game needs to make money. But the devs have turned platoons into a way to taunt us for not paying up. They've become intentional punishment rather than fun.
One, easy solution: No p2p characters in platoons. When they go farmable, THEN they can go into platoons. Incentivize us to work on them; don't punish us for not being in guilds full of whales.
No matter what feedback they get, the only feedback that matters is how the player base reacts with their money. I find it hard to believe they're intentionally punishing players for ... well, anything. They're as Pavlovian as anybody is. When they do something and the cash starts flowing in, they keep doing it. It's really that simple.
As far as incentivizing the players to work on farmable characters goes, there's just not enough cash in that to bother with.
Might as well just call them Paytoons now. But I think they've shot themselves in the foot with this one. It's now better to spend money creating 4 super squads (rebs, phoenix, rogue1, jedi) than it is to bother farming for platoons. Because when are you ever going to use ME or CUP? And most won't use wicket or the other ewoks.
And by the time you catch up on unmasked kylo and friends, you'll have the same amount of unfillable platoon slots as you did before you caught up. It's a treadmill, you'll never actually get anywhere.
+1. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. There are supposed to be challenges in the game, and not everyone should be able to finish the content each time. The guild I joined 2 weeks ago, has ~31 million GP, and I am hoping to get 12 stars. We work together as best as possible.
The problem with this is as stated by the op. Once you get these toons new toons added and the cycle repeats where the platoons never get completed. Are you finding even with a never ending incomplete platoon? Because that is how it currently trending.
Mainly just echoing the message about every other aspect of the game. If you can't beat it, just work harder.
An observation that people who are claiming it's unfair in this subforum , will be the first to reply in other feedback sections that time and hard work is needed to beat it.
It's not a question of hard work. No amount of time or hard work is going to allow you to fill these platoons. A guild without mega-whales will simply never be able to do it no matter what.
I don't disagree with what you wrote. My observation is that if one guild can finish it (and there probably is one, maybe more) it's within the realm of possibilities. At this point in time, it's out of reach for everyone else. Kind of like other aspects of the game.
The whole point of this post is that no amount of hard work will ever complete platoons. They are constantly changing them to new unfarmable $300 characters, and before you even get the chance to put in the work they will change them. Other aspects of the game give you a set challenge to work towards instead of pulling the rug from under you as soon as you get close.
all of that means that the points value we will not get from closing platoons and going 6/6 in P6 on all missions will be made up at some point and without too much specific effort.
I have a couple of problems with that.
1) There is never a feeling of completing the content if we can never have 6/6 platoons. Actually my guild, 120M is filling less platoons this time than we did the last TB, when we only missed 3. That's a backwards step and it's a big reason that I see a lot of whales saying that this current iteration of platoons actually disincentivizes them from spending.
2) Getting a ton of characters to inflate GP, or getting higher quality mods, and basically brute forcing territories and combat missions, doesn't feel good. Brute forcing stars isn't a challenge. Auto'ing combat missions because you now have 7 dot mods with 40 more speed and 1000 more offense on a set isn't a challenge.
I can understand the basic, non cynical, idea behind updating platoons to include new paywall toons - it can be argued that it's an effort to extend the life of TB's. I can only hope that's the true motivation behind changing the makeup of platoons.
I saw a comment yesterday that perfectly sums up my thoughts on this and includes some of your sentiment too Kyno - "The current iterations of TB will just become obsolete when guilds get 5 power squads each and enough GP that platoons don’t matter. Will 'upsetting' the player base in the meantime be worth it then?"