Guilds that set weak defenses in TW hoping to achieve a tie

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  • leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    The very fact that you guys are so bothered by this makes me think those guilds are onto something...

    Brilliant logic. "If people express a distaste for a particular action, that MUST be the right thing to do." Now try applying that flippant remark to real life.

    It has nothing to do with being the right thing to do. Are you telling me you have never met a person in your life who takes pleasure in seeing others suffer? In this case suffering is obviously too big of a word but you get my point. If you have, then why are you surprised some people would do that in a game? If you haven’t, then I’d like to move to where you live.

    Besides simply want to annoy the other guild, if you see your opponent has 2-5 krakens with more g12 toons than your entire guild, your chance of winning is zero to none if you set regular defense. Therefore you decide to employ this playing for a tie strategy just to show the krakens in the other guild you can’t buy tw wins with money. I can totally see the logic in that and don’t really see any problems. In fact if my guild were to go up against a guild like that and we are mostly f2p, I will support that strategy 100%.

    On the one hand you would love to live in a place where there aren't any people that take joy out of other people suffering, on the other hand you admit you take joy out of watching other people suffer.
    You don't like yourself very much it seems.

    I don’t consider my condition for playing for a tie is taking joy out of watching others suffer. If you are evenly matched with your opponent but still choose to play for a tie simply to annoy them then yes. My condition is when you are hopeless overmatched and you have virtually no chance of winning.

    That logic is beyond me. It just shows that you care a bit more about winning than about just annoying the other guild. End of the day you're playing to tie to watch them suffer, why else would you do it?

    Why else? It’s to take pride in the fact we didn’t lose to a guild with multiple krakens while we are mostly f2p. It would have nothing to do with whether the guild guild is annoyed. I do agree if you are evenly matched and still play for a tie, then your sole purpose is to annoy the other guild.

    There's nothing to be proud of when you force a draw like that though. If anything, you should be ashamed of playing for a tie. Hence the OP asking if it was allowed to form a list of guilds that play for ties.

    That is your opinion but I feel completely differently. We are allowed to have difference of opinions. Nothing wrong with that. There is another thread about some guilds sitting people just to drop to a lower gp tier for an easy win. If every such guild has to deal with such a strategy maybe we won’t have guilds purposely dropping to a lower tier anymore.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    The very fact that you guys are so bothered by this makes me think those guilds are onto something...

    Brilliant logic. "If people express a distaste for a particular action, that MUST be the right thing to do." Now try applying that flippant remark to real life.

    It has nothing to do with being the right thing to do. Are you telling me you have never met a person in your life who takes pleasure in seeing others suffer? In this case suffering is obviously too big of a word but you get my point. If you have, then why are you surprised some people would do that in a game? If you haven’t, then I’d like to move to where you live.

    Besides simply want to annoy the other guild, if you see your opponent has 2-5 krakens with more g12 toons than your entire guild, your chance of winning is zero to none if you set regular defense. Therefore you decide to employ this playing for a tie strategy just to show the krakens in the other guild you can’t buy tw wins with money. I can totally see the logic in that and don’t really see any problems. In fact if my guild were to go up against a guild like that and we are mostly f2p, I will support that strategy 100%.

    On the one hand you would love to live in a place where there aren't any people that take joy out of other people suffering, on the other hand you admit you take joy out of watching other people suffer.
    You don't like yourself very much it seems.

    I don’t consider my condition for playing for a tie is taking joy out of watching others suffer. If you are evenly matched with your opponent but still choose to play for a tie simply to annoy them then yes. My condition is when you are hopeless overmatched and you have virtually no chance of winning.

    That logic is beyond me. It just shows that you care a bit more about winning than about just annoying the other guild. End of the day you're playing to tie to watch them suffer, why else would you do it?

    Why else? It’s to take pride in the fact we didn’t lose to a guild with multiple krakens while we are mostly f2p. It would have nothing to do with whether the guild guild is annoyed. I do agree if you are evenly matched and still play for a tie, then your sole purpose is to annoy the other guild.

    Amazing. Every word in the above is wrong.

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed too powerful to win against is some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice. If my guild leader said "Hey guys, we're going to tuck our tails between our legs and play for tie today, because they have a few guys with stronger toons than us." or he/she was simply too lazy to figure out strategies and tactics to help us win, I'd be clicking "Guild Search" so hard, my screen would crack.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed to powerful to win against as some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice.

    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?
    Question here. You're fighting a fairly zealous guild, they're all active. They clear your defense in just a few hours. I've seen 3-4 hours listed, but whatever.
    You don't get on until later, put the kids to bed, crack open some wine, again, whatever.
    At this moment, the best thing you can do is tie. So, you, on defense, seeing this, are you just giving up or are you going to fight on? If so, aren't you just fighting for the tie?
  • swgohfan29
    1147 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    No! Its nothing wrong. It just doesnt feel right, bcos youre gaining very little and hurting thr other guild. I m not angry at competitive human nature, its just a annoying thing to do, see?
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    The very fact that you guys are so bothered by this makes me think those guilds are onto something...

    Brilliant logic. "If people express a distaste for a particular action, that MUST be the right thing to do." Now try applying that flippant remark to real life.

    It has nothing to do with being the right thing to do. Are you telling me you have never met a person in your life who takes pleasure in seeing others suffer? In this case suffering is obviously too big of a word but you get my point. If you have, then why are you surprised some people would do that in a game? If you haven’t, then I’d like to move to where you live.

    Besides simply want to annoy the other guild, if you see your opponent has 2-5 krakens with more g12 toons than your entire guild, your chance of winning is zero to none if you set regular defense. Therefore you decide to employ this playing for a tie strategy just to show the krakens in the other guild you can’t buy tw wins with money. I can totally see the logic in that and don’t really see any problems. In fact if my guild were to go up against a guild like that and we are mostly f2p, I will support that strategy 100%.

    On the one hand you would love to live in a place where there aren't any people that take joy out of other people suffering, on the other hand you admit you take joy out of watching other people suffer.
    You don't like yourself very much it seems.

    I don’t consider my condition for playing for a tie is taking joy out of watching others suffer. If you are evenly matched with your opponent but still choose to play for a tie simply to annoy them then yes. My condition is when you are hopeless overmatched and you have virtually no chance of winning.

    That logic is beyond me. It just shows that you care a bit more about winning than about just annoying the other guild. End of the day you're playing to tie to watch them suffer, why else would you do it?

    Why else? It’s to take pride in the fact we didn’t lose to a guild with multiple krakens while we are mostly f2p. It would have nothing to do with whether the guild guild is annoyed. I do agree if you are evenly matched and still play for a tie, then your sole purpose is to annoy the other guild.

    There's nothing to be proud of when you force a draw like that though. If anything, you should be ashamed of playing for a tie. Hence the OP asking if it was allowed to form a list of guilds that play for ties.

    That is your opinion but I feel completely differently. We are allowed to have difference of opinions. Nothing wrong with that. There is another thread about some guilds sitting people just to drop to a lower gp tier for an easy win. If every such guild has to deal with such a strategy maybe we won’t have guilds purposely dropping to a lower tier anymore.

    It's allowed to have different oppinions, that's true. However, usually there's a consensus. Simple example, you might think super hot movie star isn't good looking, but since most people think super hot movie star is good looking, she will be objectively considered goodlooking. This doesn't mean you should think super hot movie star is goodlooking aswell, but when you say super hot movie star isn't goodlooking you'd still be wrong.
    As for the benching players intentionally in order to get easier matchups, i also think that's a lame strategy. I just hope the guilds using those kind of strategies face eachother. I'm completely fine with them cancelling eachother out.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    The very fact that you guys are so bothered by this makes me think those guilds are onto something...

    Brilliant logic. "If people express a distaste for a particular action, that MUST be the right thing to do." Now try applying that flippant remark to real life.

    It has nothing to do with being the right thing to do. Are you telling me you have never met a person in your life who takes pleasure in seeing others suffer? In this case suffering is obviously too big of a word but you get my point. If you have, then why are you surprised some people would do that in a game? If you haven’t, then I’d like to move to where you live.

    Besides simply want to annoy the other guild, if you see your opponent has 2-5 krakens with more g12 toons than your entire guild, your chance of winning is zero to none if you set regular defense. Therefore you decide to employ this playing for a tie strategy just to show the krakens in the other guild you can’t buy tw wins with money. I can totally see the logic in that and don’t really see any problems. In fact if my guild were to go up against a guild like that and we are mostly f2p, I will support that strategy 100%.

    On the one hand you would love to live in a place where there aren't any people that take joy out of other people suffering, on the other hand you admit you take joy out of watching other people suffer.
    You don't like yourself very much it seems.

    I don’t consider my condition for playing for a tie is taking joy out of watching others suffer. If you are evenly matched with your opponent but still choose to play for a tie simply to annoy them then yes. My condition is when you are hopeless overmatched and you have virtually no chance of winning.

    That logic is beyond me. It just shows that you care a bit more about winning than about just annoying the other guild. End of the day you're playing to tie to watch them suffer, why else would you do it?

    Why else? It’s to take pride in the fact we didn’t lose to a guild with multiple krakens while we are mostly f2p. It would have nothing to do with whether the guild guild is annoyed. I do agree if you are evenly matched and still play for a tie, then your sole purpose is to annoy the other guild.

    Amazing. Every word in the above is wrong.

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed too powerful to win against is some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice. If my guild leader said "Hey guys, we're going to tuck our tails between our legs and play for tie today, because they have a few guys with stronger toons than us." or he/she was simply too lazy to figure out strategies and tactics to help us win, I'd be clicking "Guild Search" so hard, my screen would crack.

    Amazing only your opinion can be the correct one. “Agree with me or die”! I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised by you considering the political climate these days.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?

    In this scenario both guilds should probably be ashamed for not setting a strong enough defense.
    (the probably is because i'm not familiar with the specifics)
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed to powerful to win against as some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice.

    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?
    Question here. You're fighting a fairly zealous guild, they're all active. They clear your defense in just a few hours. I've seen 3-4 hours listed, but whatever.
    You don't get on until later, put the kids to bed, crack open some wine, again, whatever.
    At this moment, the best thing you can do is tie. So, you, on defense, seeing this, are you just giving up or are you going to fight on? If so, aren't you just fighting for the tie?

    There's a huge difference in attitude, though.

    On the one hand, you have guilds that deliberately sabotage their defense so that they can make sure they'll lose (as has been mentioned a "tie" is just a "lose" called by a different name, in terms of rewards).

    On the other hand, you have the situation here where you've done your best on defense and the opponents still cleared the board before you did. Fighting to clear the board will still result in a tie/loss, but in that case you did your best.

    It would be similar to the enemy clearing all but a couple nodes in the first few hours and you see and think you can't take out their first territory with such a strong defense. You could give up and accept it as a loss without trying, or you could go in and try your best even though you're certain you can't get a higher score. You're still playing for a loss, but you're doing your best.

    People that sacrifice their defense for the sole purpose of playing for a tie are not trying their best. They're being shameful and I haven't yet seen one person that has a better explanation for the behavior than "because they have fun in denying others rewards".
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?

    In this scenario both guilds should probably be ashamed for not setting a strong enough defense.
    (the probably is because i'm not familiar with the specifics)
    Dretzle wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed to powerful to win against as some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice.

    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?
    Question here. You're fighting a fairly zealous guild, they're all active. They clear your defense in just a few hours. I've seen 3-4 hours listed, but whatever.
    You don't get on until later, put the kids to bed, crack open some wine, again, whatever.
    At this moment, the best thing you can do is tie. So, you, on defense, seeing this, are you just giving up or are you going to fight on? If so, aren't you just fighting for the tie?

    There's a huge difference in attitude, though.

    On the one hand, you have guilds that deliberately sabotage their defense so that they can make sure they'll lose (as has been mentioned a "tie" is just a "lose" called by a different name, in terms of rewards).

    On the other hand, you have the situation here where you've done your best on defense and the opponents still cleared the board before you did. Fighting to clear the board will still result in a tie/loss, but in that case you did your best.

    It would be similar to the enemy clearing all but a couple nodes in the first few hours and you see and think you can't take out their first territory with such a strong defense. You could give up and accept it as a loss without trying, or you could go in and try your best even though you're certain you can't get a higher score. You're still playing for a loss, but you're doing your best.

    People that sacrifice their defense for the sole purpose of playing for a tie are not trying their best. They're being shameful and I haven't yet seen one person that has a better explanation for the behavior than "because they have fun in denying others rewards".

    I asked because the argument being made (by Nikoms) was that the SOLE purpose of TW is to win, and if you can't win then denying the other guild its points is just sour grapes and cowardice.

    In our case, we may not have set a strong enough defense, but it wasn't intentional, we just didn't know what we were doing (or in my case probably just didn't care that much because I don't like TW and don't find the difference in rewards worth any effort of micromanaging). But regardless of why the other side's defense wasn't strong enough, if you are saying, effectively, that they deserve to be punished for it, then you are saying that winning/getting better rewards is NOT the only thing you care about.
  • Let's face it, people love to live vicariously. Most games have a good/bad guy mechanic. Where you can be the hero/villian to your hearts delight. Its compounded by the fact you are just known by a gamertag. So you can be as good/deviant as you want and nobody(real life) knows. In this case, you can play tw anyway you see fit. So you can say you should be ashamed or someone should shame you or a tie is a loss or winning is everything and doing x y z is totally wrong/right. It doesn't matter because at the end of the day it's a video game which is being played by gamerxyz who probably isn't even worried about what is thought about them. Especially since we are playing a game mode that has no restrictions on how to play it.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    I asked because the argument being made (by Nikoms) was that the SOLE purpose of TW is to win, and if you can't win then denying the other guild its points is just sour grapes and cowardice.

    In our case, we may not have set a strong enough defense, but it wasn't intentional, we just didn't know what we were doing (or in my case probably just didn't care that much because I don't like TW and don't find the difference in rewards worth any effort of micromanaging). But regardless of why the other side's defense wasn't strong enough, if you are saying, effectively, that they deserve to be punished for it, then you are saying that winning/getting better rewards is NOT the only thing you care about.

    @Liath
    I'm afraid i don't fully understand what you're saying, so if my response is completely off base that's why.
    Assuming your guild and your opponent both played to win, you both failed and as a result of that you both get "punished" with getting 2nd place rewards. I have no problem with that. I also don't have a problem with clearing the entire map eventhough your opponent already has max points. It's a "fair" result based on intent and execution. Both guilds tried, both guilds failed.
    This all gets a little more complicated when it's just one guild that "fails" (setting too weak of a defense), but the war ends up in a tie all the same. So basically the guild that did every thing right still ends up with 2nd place rewards because the other guild lacks strategy. I don't think many people are upset about this scenario though. Not sure if it even happens alot. I don't have a problem with either guild still going for the tie if the other already cleared the map, but i'm rooting for the guild that did everything right nontheless because i don't think the one guild should be "punished" for the other guild's lack of strategy.
    Now there are some cases (or alot) where you can't know whether you're warring vs a guild that simply lacks strategy, or a guild that is intentionally going for the tie. So personally i wouldn't start throwing accusations around unless it was really obvious or if the other guild expressed their intent to tie. That's just for calling them lame though, saying they're "noobs" eventhough you tied is still fine by me. That probably only has an effect on the higher up guilds since the rest don't give a flying flute about bragging rights anyway.
    That leaves guilds that intentionally go for the tie and you already know my oppinion about those guilds.
    So it basically all boils down to intent. It's not about winning or losing, it's about not intentionally taking the other guild's ability to win away by using a strategy designed to do just that without the possibility of winning themselfes. If both guilds tried to win, but ended up in a draw anyway both guilds can walk away with their heads held high (morally speaking). They should go back to the drawing board as far as strategy goes though.
    If either or both of the guilds clear the map, one or both of them is/are doing something "wrong".

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • I play Friday the 13th religiously. If, as a counselor, my survival comes down to needing Jason being distracted with killing you, I will make sure that happens. Just sayin'.

    If anyone wants to be the shiny white knight in a game, go for it. There's no rule that anyone has to approach any game with a virtuous heart.

    As far as bad defense, I've seen it work many times and resulting in a win, not a tie. Players are limited by what they've got on hand and if they'd rather try to keep the big guns tucked away for offense, and win, and win again, and win again, nobody can really fault them for that.

    If someone uses that strategy because they win with it and you go against them and it results in a tie, maybe you should get better?
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    DasMurich wrote: »
    I play Friday the 13th religiously. If, as a counselor, my survival comes down to needing Jason being distracted with killing you, I will make sure that happens. Just sayin'.
    while i'm not familiar with that game, it seems like it was beneficial for you to make sure that other guy died, so it's not really comparable with going for the tie in TW's.

    If anyone wants to be the shiny white knight in a game, go for it. There's no rule that anyone has to approach any game with a virtuous heart.
    if anyone wants to teamkill alot in a fps game, go for it. There's no rule that anyone has to approach any game with a virtuous heart. ( i know it isn't exactly the same as forcing a tie, but the sentiment still applies)

    As far as bad defense, I've seen it work many times and resulting in a win, not a tie. Players are limited by what they've got on hand and if they'd rather try to keep the big guns tucked away for offense, and win, and win again, and win again, nobody can really fault them for that.
    You've seen it many times that guilds that set weak defenses win? I'm sceptical. Regardless of that, no one is faulting guilds for having "bad" strategy, i'm sure my guild isn't using optimal strategy either. It's about forcing a tie intentionally.

    If someone uses that strategy because they win with it and you go against them and it results in a tie, maybe you should get better?

    Nah, if a guild can successfully prevent a guild from forcing a tie, that TW was a mismatch in the first place.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • MolTheFirst
    146 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    So I have thought of a valid reason to set a weak defence whilst playing to win (there may be others). Let's say I know I can't win in Squads (out gunned or in experienced) but I think I can win in fleet (my Sister guilds tells me fleet is how they win). The the best strategy might be to set a weak squads Defence and set a strong fleet Defence. (Eg, don't risk losing in squads and at the same time give players a full hand to practice squad offence). Also, this strategy saves a ton of time for guilds that are more casual (they no longer lose because they run out of time).

    Might even try it some time as my guildies would love some free play in squads. Alas as GP rises it seems harder to win in fleet.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Liath wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?

    In this scenario both guilds should probably be ashamed for not setting a strong enough defense.
    (the probably is because i'm not familiar with the specifics)
    Dretzle wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    First off, you did lose - as "tie" and "loss" are synonymous in terms of rewards. Second, the sole purpose of TW is to win. That's why there are 2 rewards, 1 for winning and 1 for losing. In a tie, both are given "losing" rewards. Trying to argue that a tie with another guild whom you deemed to powerful to win against as some sort of moral victory (even though it's still a loss for you) is sour grapes and cowardice.

    Yeah? So answer Venoth's question. Which I also asked in another thread but never saw an answer to. We had two guilds that cleared the board after we had already cleared it - should they be shamed?
    Question here. You're fighting a fairly zealous guild, they're all active. They clear your defense in just a few hours. I've seen 3-4 hours listed, but whatever.
    You don't get on until later, put the kids to bed, crack open some wine, again, whatever.
    At this moment, the best thing you can do is tie. So, you, on defense, seeing this, are you just giving up or are you going to fight on? If so, aren't you just fighting for the tie?

    There's a huge difference in attitude, though.

    On the one hand, you have guilds that deliberately sabotage their defense so that they can make sure they'll lose (as has been mentioned a "tie" is just a "lose" called by a different name, in terms of rewards).

    On the other hand, you have the situation here where you've done your best on defense and the opponents still cleared the board before you did. Fighting to clear the board will still result in a tie/loss, but in that case you did your best.

    It would be similar to the enemy clearing all but a couple nodes in the first few hours and you see and think you can't take out their first territory with such a strong defense. You could give up and accept it as a loss without trying, or you could go in and try your best even though you're certain you can't get a higher score. You're still playing for a loss, but you're doing your best.

    People that sacrifice their defense for the sole purpose of playing for a tie are not trying their best. They're being shameful and I haven't yet seen one person that has a better explanation for the behavior than "because they have fun in denying others rewards".

    I asked because the argument being made (by Nikoms) was that the SOLE purpose of TW is to win, and if you can't win then denying the other guild its points is just sour grapes and cowardice.

    In our case, we may not have set a strong enough defense, but it wasn't intentional, we just didn't know what we were doing (or in my case probably just didn't care that much because I don't like TW and don't find the difference in rewards worth any effort of micromanaging). But regardless of why the other side's defense wasn't strong enough, if you are saying, effectively, that they deserve to be punished for it, then you are saying that winning/getting better rewards is NOT the only thing you care about.

    @Liath : First off, you are misrepresenting what I said. The goal is to to TRY to win. The key is in the attempt - not necessarily the result. Dr. Reiner Knizia stated this:
    'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning'. He was speaking in relation to boardgames specifically, but it would apply here. The key is aiming for the goal - not necessarily in achieving it. It is when people (or guilds) don't aim for that goal, that the game (or, in this case the TW) falls apart and becomes a waste of time.
    In the one case, a guild has deliberately set weak defense to play for a tie (loss) - in the other, both guilds were simply better on offense than expected - but both had tried to win.

    I have no problem with a guild trying to clear an enemies board after their's has been cleared - both guilds will learn a lesson in setting stronger defense, as both were clearly still being too cautious. But both had winning as the goal - they just didn't execute well.

    Anything else I would try to say would just be repeating the excellent points already made by @Dretzle above.
    Post edited by Nikoms565 on
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Question here. You're fighting a fairly zealous guild, they're all active. They clear your defense in just a few hours. I've seen 3-4 hours listed, but whatever.
    You don't get on until later, put the kids to bed, crack open some wine, again, whatever.
    At this moment, the best thing you can do is tie. So, you, on defense, seeing this, are you just giving up or are you going to fight on? If so, aren't you just fighting for the tie?

    Well you can play for pride. Obviously not much point in terms of rewards.

    Another way of looking at it is you now have a sandbox to play in to try stuff out with no downside, something people frequently ask for. You just got handed a gift......
  • EA clearly didn't want people to "go for the tie" or they wouldn't have made the rewards for a draw and the rewards for a loss the same, but the unfortunate side effect of that system is that is allows a guild to have a "Spite" based strategy without giving up anything if they don't think they have the chance to win, and that begs the need for an effective tie-breaker which a guild who tries to "force a tie" would most likely lose.

    It's not about penalizing people for playing the game, or having a difference of opinion on how the game works, it's about making it harder for a group of people to intentionally try to take something away from other players and prevent other players from getting to "play the game"
  • We just got paired against one of those guilds... it's really depressing being on the side that gives it everything to win. We've only won 2 TW so far and for once we got paired against a guild with a similar GP and they force a tie. They had no team on defence that you couldn't beat using G8 phoenix... so we cleared their map in less than 3 hours.

    Our leaders spend countless hours thinking and strategizing about defences and then this happen. It really sucks. All the fun went to them by forcing a tie (they actually got to play against challenging teams while we got stuck cleaning up scraps). And apparently, since they're apart of an alliance, a tie is better in their alliance stats than a loss. So they just result in forcing ties everywhere because stats are all that matter to them.

    Anyways... I strongly discourage anyone from using this tactic to force a tie. Some guilds actually enjoy the content and this just ruins all of it for everyone. You also don't get to practice and evolve defensive strategies when doing this.
  • If you match guild with +20M GP than yours, you will probably go for the tie so don't mess your guild record.
  • I'm not for or against, I do realise that the game has no rules though. Can you set junk defense yes, can you set no defense yes, do you have to set a certain power no. Do you have to attack no. On and on, it's up to you how you want the experience to be. So are we saying, in a way, people are exploiting the game mechanics to take something away from other players? If so, let me ask this. Why do we have a forum strictly for the exploitation and organization of arena shards? Aren't people being taken away from there? Isn't that "if you can't beat them join them"? Isn't that exploitation for the benefit of a few to make the whole suffer? I don't know but a lot of things in this game can be called a double standard.
  • I dont understand playing for a tie if it is close to an even matchup. You might as well go for a win. But if the enemy guild is manipulating their gp & you have no chance at winning, you might as well do it. Those guilds that are benching players to go for an easy win deserve it.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    I dont understand playing for a tie if it is close to an even matchup. You might as well go for a win. But if the enemy guild is manipulating their gp & you have no chance at winning, you might as well do it. Those guilds that are benching players to go for an easy win deserve it.

    agreed, but you have to be sure they benched member intentionally to get an easier match-up. Both equally lame and i'm totally fine with them cancelling eachother out.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • I think purposefully sandbagging a defense is a cheap tactic but a tactic no less. I feel that every guild has their own right to choose how they want to approach territory wars. I like that my guild tries to play defense but we still save some good teams for offense. I would love to see guilds who play for "ties" lose because of a stalwart defense but it's hard to stop a guild when they have a lot of firepower at their disposal.
  • Sorry if a comment has already been made...but how would you tie a TW by setting a weak squad?
  • Sorry if a comment has already been made...but how would you tie a TW by setting a weak squad?

    If both guilds seem to be of equal power, one guild (one trying to force a tie) would set a weak defense and keep good offense attempting to force a tie. Assuming the other guild was equally powerful in their own defensive and offensive squad availability that is. Otherwise they would just win anyway by clearing the board
  • IlkhanHo wrote: »
    If you match guild with +20M GP than yours, you will probably go for the tie so don't mess your guild record.

    There are 2 stats in the TW Leaderboard. "Guild Galactic Power" and "Total GP DEFEATED" - records are meaningless. And ties are exactly the same as losses. In fact, I respect guilds with a loss - as that usually means they were at least trying to win.

    If one guild tells me they have a record of 2-0 with 6 ties, it is far less impressive than a guild that is 3-4 and 1 tie. Why? Because 6 ties tells me the guild doesn't play to win. Besides, on the leaderboard, the guild with 3 wins has more total GP defeated than the "undefeated" guild with 6 ties.



    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • TyloRen wrote: »
    Nahhh, let's not go there. Thanks

    You should allow it. Ridiculous not to. Gross negligence.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    @Liath : First off, you are misrepresenting what I said. The goal is to to TRY to win.

    You can say you meant whatever you want, but don't say I misrepresented what you said. "The sole purpose of TW is to win" is a direct quote.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »

    @Liath : First off, you are misrepresenting what I said. The goal is to to TRY to win.

    You can say you meant whatever you want, but don't say I misrepresented what you said. "The sole purpose of TW is to win" is a direct quote.

    You are correct - I misspoke. I should have stated the "do your best to" (or "try"). Next time, just quote me directly instead of paraphrasing so I can own up to the mistake. ;)
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • IlkhanHo wrote: »
    If you match guild with +20M GP than yours, you will probably go for the tie so don't mess your guild record.

    What "record" would that be? A Draw is recorded the same as a defeat. Going for a draw earns you nothing other than the pride that you know you deprived your opponent of a win.
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