They are stronger because people aren't playing the TB correctly. They get all those bonuses from the "supply lines" (its a platoon mission).
If people were to do the PLT missions first and max them out, and THEN run the squad missions there would be no problem. Since all the bonuses would be gone.
But everyone just thinks about themself and what their rank is for contribution.
Well, news flash: you all share rewards at the end of the day.
Bottom line is, your DSTBs are harder because your guild isn't organizing its resources correctly
Even in a perfectly organized guild, DS TB is harder, so i wouldn't call that the bottom line at all.
I dont think so. You have people dedicated to filling out PLTs and people dedicated to running the squad missions.
i'm not saying platoons don't help alot, i'm saying DS is simply more difficult. And now that it really starts getting difficult (p1/3 were easy), the average guild doesn't have members with those p2p toons that are required for platoons anyway.
I see what youre saying. The lightside toons are easier to invest in as they for the most part arent behind paywalls like the DS toons are. I can understand that
Plain and simple we need another rework of DSTB. The kits for the rebels are far too OP. Too many full team cleanses combined with cooldowns, TM gains and string attacks.
I'd rather get a rework of some of the DS characters to bring them up than nerf the content down.
DS toons, for the most part, are much weaker than LS toons. Instead of tuning appropriately, CG negated one of the biggest DS advantages (debuffs), allows assists on enemy counters, gives the enemy mass heals (DS doesn’t have but one or two reliable healers), and gives Rebels a territory AOE that devastates DS teams and is far more effective than the DS counterpart. Does that sound balanced? Yes, or no. No arguing your opinion on why “it should be hard,” it’s a binary question about simple balance.
DS toons, for the most part, are much weaker than LS toons. Instead of tuning appropriately, CG negated one of the biggest DS advantages (debuffs), allows assists on enemy counters, gives the enemy mass heals (DS doesn’t have but one or two reliable healers), and gives Rebels a territory AOE that devastates DS teams and is far more effective than the DS counterpart. Does that sound balanced? Yes, or no. No arguing your opinion on why “it should be hard,” it’s a binary question about simple balance.
If you were accurate in your presumptions regarding DS char usefulness, the. There would be none that are able to beat the combat missions. Since there are a fair few that do beat the missions , and folks even layout how best to figure out attack orders, etc, and folks that go 4/4 , . . . There seems to be a slight disconnect between your presumptions about how DS TB is built, and how players are faring.
If you have no challenge, which is what making DS Tb easier would accomplish, then what exactly is the point of playing?
DS toons, for the most part, are much weaker than LS toons. Instead of tuning appropriately, CG negated one of the biggest DS advantages (debuffs), allows assists on enemy counters, gives the enemy mass heals (DS doesn’t have but one or two reliable healers), and gives Rebels a territory AOE that devastates DS teams and is far more effective than the DS counterpart. Does that sound balanced? Yes, or no. No arguing your opinion on why “it should be hard,” it’s a binary question about simple balance.
If you were accurate in your presumptions regarding DS char usefulness, the. There would be none that are able to beat the combat missions. Since there are a fair few that do beat the missions , and folks even layout how best to figure out attack orders, etc, and folks that go 4/4 , . . . There seems to be a slight disconnect between your presumptions about how DS TB is built, and how players are faring.
If you have no challenge, which is what making DS Tb easier would accomplish, then what exactly is the point of playing?
Didn’t read my question, did you? Looking at it numerically, does it sound balanced? Yes, or no. It is a question with only two answers. The fact that you didn’t answer the question directly speaks volumes.
Some people like the harder content. Some are pointing out the lopsided ness between the two TB. Reality, both are correct. They give you up to three stars extra, but lower guilds might not even get past day 2. It would be better if they just stated DSTB was level 85 plus. 5* plus. Don’t pretend that many guilds should even try.
Just things like IPD being in platoons with a mission that most can’t beat is kitten. Starck and his RNG drops is major kitten. How are many going to even farm him if he doesn’t always show up? The fact that Saxon was the last farmable DS toon. And that is being of RNG in the store plus a single high node.
DS toons, for the most part, are much weaker than LS toons. Instead of tuning appropriately, CG negated one of the biggest DS advantages (debuffs), allows assists on enemy counters, gives the enemy mass heals (DS doesn’t have but one or two reliable healers), and gives Rebels a territory AOE that devastates DS teams and is far more effective than the DS counterpart. Does that sound balanced? Yes, or no. No arguing your opinion on why “it should be hard,” it’s a binary question about simple balance.
If you were accurate in your presumptions regarding DS char usefulness, the. There would be none that are able to beat the combat missions. Since there are a fair few that do beat the missions , and folks even layout how best to figure out attack orders, etc, and folks that go 4/4 , . . . There seems to be a slight disconnect between your presumptions about how DS TB is built, and how players are faring.
If you have no challenge, which is what making DS Tb easier would accomplish, then what exactly is the point of playing?
Didn’t read my question, did you? Looking at it numerically, does it sound balanced? Yes, or no. It is a question with only two answers. The fact that you didn’t answer the question directly speaks volumes.
I'll put it plainly for you and your binary aptitude, balanced yes , because it's the lastest end game content that has been released.
Will it be nerfed down to be the same as LS ? No, why? Because LS is not the latest and newest content.
And let's talk about their version of the rebel platoon orbital strike. When you use it in LS TBs it's strong but you just deal them a ton of damage without killing them. They will just begin to shoot in the air and recover 2932826272 protection as they suddenly have 350 speed and 200% tm gain (they make like 2 or 3 turns in a row even if your toons have 250 speed each). In the DS version, they just oneshot your whole team if you let them make a single move. I believe that they just gave them the LS TB version of it without recalibrating its damage on normal toons. Advanced stages LS TB npcs have multiple tons of health, your toons have perfectly normal health ranging from 15 to 30k with protection ranging from 15-20 to 40-50k.
DS toons, for the most part, are much weaker than LS toons. Instead of tuning appropriately, CG negated one of the biggest DS advantages (debuffs), allows assists on enemy counters, gives the enemy mass heals (DS doesn’t have but one or two reliable healers), and gives Rebels a territory AOE that devastates DS teams and is far more effective than the DS counterpart. Does that sound balanced? Yes, or no. No arguing your opinion on why “it should be hard,” it’s a binary question about simple balance.
If you were accurate in your presumptions regarding DS char usefulness, the. There would be none that are able to beat the combat missions. Since there are a fair few that do beat the missions , and folks even layout how best to figure out attack orders, etc, and folks that go 4/4 , . . . There seems to be a slight disconnect between your presumptions about how DS TB is built, and how players are faring.
If you have no challenge, which is what making DS Tb easier would accomplish, then what exactly is the point of playing?
Didn’t read my question, did you? Looking at it numerically, does it sound balanced? Yes, or no. It is a question with only two answers. The fact that you didn’t answer the question directly speaks volumes.
I'll put it plainly for you and your binary aptitude, balanced yes , because it's the lastest end game content that has been released.
Will it be nerfed down to be the same as LS ? No, why? Because LS is not the latest and newest content.
Then let me respond to your one-track, disconnected, self-interested perspective. It is poorly balanced against a statistically inferior subset of toons. There are exceptions, but DS toons, by and large, do not stack up to LS toons and placing them against the same, or greater level of punishment without a significant rework is poor design. This isn’t Dark Souls, where skill is paramount. Stop trumping it up like it’s supposed to be. You are entirely at the mercy of gear and RNG.
Additionally, CG misrepresented the character requirements with respect to gearing and * level in their mission descriptions. Finally, this was never stated to be “end-game”. The apologists made that up to excuse the atrocious balance. The last few phases could be considered “end-game” tier, but this was intended to be guild friendly.
@GhostTruckin a fast glimpse to your roster is enough to understand why you talk like this. We're not all day-one players with some bunch of money spent on the game. No wonder you easily get through DS TBs. But BREAKING NEWS: players like you are a minority in the game. You can't apply your standards to all players.
@GhostTruckin a fast glimpse to your roster is enough to understand why you talk like this. We're not all day-one players with some bunch of money spent on the game. No wonder you easily get through DS TBs. But BREAKING NEWS: players like you are a minority in the game. You can't apply your standards to all players.
Lol yes that's exactly it, sad that you think that but each to his own @Drazhar .
I never claimed it was easy, in fact it's a challenge, as it is supposed to be. However you and @AldaisKaroth have made it abundantly clear that you wish for an easy button win because you believe that DS is a worse faction to use.
Whatever game you refer to, from what I see. There is always skill involved, simply mashing a button is not typically how you will achieve anything with myriad squads and team comps. What a person seems to forget , or is unwilling to understand is that easy modes become boring, having goals to work towards keeps things interesting , and blaming the game for lack of a better target makes a person seem, . .well, like they just aren't actually interested in playing and are more interested in an "I want it NOW button"
Now, since apparently , it's a crime to have played the game for awhile, and apparently it is also a crime to have built squads up for specific purposes. Pray tell, what exactly is the criteria you feel appropriate in order to have an opinion on a game mode?
@Drazhar and how long have you played? What have you done to develop your roster?
@AldaisKaroth and how long have you played? And what have you done to develop your roster?
Do you see how pointless it is to try determine anything based on a roster? I'll wager I have players that I know who have less time in this game that are doing a great job in DS TB, because they are working towards a goal, and getting things accomplished. Which is the point of these TB, in case you forgot they are not a here is your stuff for just showing up only mode.. They do payout for just showing up, you get a base prize if you will, and if you put some effort in, you get better rewards. Now, get an entire guild to put some effort in, and the rewards increase as well. So , disconnect? Right, . . . That's exactly it, not , you know, play and get better in order to do better or anything lol, can't have that now.
Do you really think that it matters one iota whether a person has played since launch, or since xx 2016, or xx 2017? Or better yet, do you really think that a player since late 2017-2018 should be playing everything in game right out the gate?
I am close to 2M GP and was alsways more inclined to farm and play DS toons. In arean I struggle to compete with easy-to-obtain LS squads (Wiggs, Chaze, CLS, Zolo, R2 ...). This is my DS roster and so far I completed all battles 4/4 except for BH (because I wont farm them for one or two missions)
GhostTruckin a fast glimpse to your roster is enough to understand why you talk like this. We're not all day-one players with some bunch of money spent on the game. No wonder you easily get through DS TBs. But BREAKING NEWS: players like you are a minority in the game. You can't apply your standards to all players.
So what's your point? Everything ingame should be easy because the overwhelming majority of the players are noobs? We're getting there though, there's isn't a whole lot left ingame that remains a challenge.
@GhostTruckin a fast glimpse to your roster is enough to understand why you talk like this. We're not all day-one players with some bunch of money spent on the game. No wonder you easily get through DS TBs. But BREAKING NEWS: players like you are a minority in the game. You can't apply your standards to all players.
Lol yes that's exactly it, sad that you think that but each to his own @Drazhar .
I never claimed it was easy, in fact it's a challenge, as it is supposed to be. However you and @AldaisKaroth have made it abundantly clear that you wish for an easy button win because you believe that DS is a worse faction to use.
Whatever game you refer to, from what I see. There is always skill involved, simply mashing a button is not typically how you will achieve anything with myriad squads and team comps. What a person seems to forget , or is unwilling to understand is that easy modes become boring, having goals to work towards keeps things interesting , and blaming the game for lack of a better target makes a person seem, . .well, like they just aren't actually interested in playing and are more interested in an "I want it NOW button"
Now, since apparently , it's a crime to have played the game for awhile, and apparently it is also a crime to have built squads up for specific purposes. Pray tell, what exactly is the criteria you feel appropriate in order to have an opinion on a game mode?
@Drazhar and how long have you played? What have you done to develop your roster?
@AldaisKaroth and how long have you played? And what have you done to develop your roster?
Do you see how pointless it is to try determine anything based on a roster? I'll wager I have players that I know who have less time in this game that are doing a great job in DS TB, because they are working towards a goal, and getting things accomplished. Which is the point of these TB, in case you forgot they are not a here is your stuff for just showing up only mode.. They do payout for just showing up, you get a base prize if you will, and if you put some effort in, you get better rewards. Now, get an entire guild to put some effort in, and the rewards increase as well. So , disconnect? Right, . . . That's exactly it, not , you know, play and get better in order to do better or anything lol, can't have that now.
Do you really think that it matters one iota whether a person has played since launch, or since xx 2016, or xx 2017? Or better yet, do you really think that a player since late 2017-2018 should be playing everything in game right out the gate?
Take your elitist mentality and peddle it to someone who’s interested in what you have to say. I’ve been constantly working to develop my roster and will continue to do so. But, to claim this content isnt overtuned is laughable. Simple fact is that a P3 Battle should not be eating G10-12 zeta teams, period. That’s not wanting an easy button, that’s wanting an actual CURVE to the difficulty. Y’know? A scale? A progression? Or is that a foreign concept? By your logic, since it’s “end game” (never stated by the devs), every single node should require 7* G12 god-mod toons, so you have something to work towards.
I've been following this discussion for a while, and I must say... I don't understand the whole expectation that DSTB should somehow be the exact same difficulty as LSTB. Sure, they're both Territory Battles. But, the Pit Raid and the Tank Raid are both raids. And like the different raids, the different Territory Battles have different requirements, different strategies, and different rewards. So, for those arguing for 'balance', would you argue just as emphatically for 'balance' between the Pit and Tank Raids? I mean... think about it.
Plain and simple we need another rework of DSTB. The kits for the rebels are far too OP. Too many full team cleanses combined with cooldowns, TM gains and string attacks.
I'd rather get a rework of some of the DS characters to bring them up than nerf the content down.
Definitely agree that we need reworks of DS toons, but even with a boost to those, full team cleanses for multiple characters are ridiculous.
I've been following this discussion for a while, and I must say... I don't understand the whole expectation that DSTB should somehow be the exact same difficulty as LSTB. Sure, they're both Territory Battles. But, the Pit Raid and the Tank Raid are both raids. And like the different raids, the different Territory Battles have different requirements, different strategies, and different rewards. So, for those arguing for 'balance', would you argue just as emphatically for 'balance' between the Pit and Tank Raids? I mean... think about it.
The expectation isn’t for it to be tuned to the same difficulty. It’s expected to be tuned to what characters we have available for DS.
Given how few viable DS teams there are, and the terrible platoon requirements for the slices, there needs to be more done to fix the mode.
A properly modded ZVeers team should not be wiped out in phase 4. That’s where the challenge should start.
They wont be healing if you do the supply lines. They wont even have airstrikes either if you do the other PLT missions
This here is awful design, requiring us to place the exclusive toons in platoons.
But that horse is dead many times over and I don’t foresee a change.
Let’s just say that I am less than thrilled at the idea of spending crystals (for many actual cash) on a toon only to put him in a platoon. Then multiply that requirement by 10.
So, it shouldn't be the same difficulty level as LSTB, but ... it should be easier, because the current collection of DS characters available aren't as good as the LS characters available.
Looking over this thread people are missing the point. Nobody wants an easy button to be able to breeze through the whole mode. This is end game content and should be treated as such. What the majority of people want is a properly calibrated game mode that increase in difficulty and doesn’t lock top tier achievement behind a paywall.
As far as difficulty is concerned the scale is miscued. Phases 1 and 2 are relatively easy to clear and get 4/4. That’s fine. It requires 2 and 3 Star toons. Experiment with synergies, see how abilities for DS work and decide on what teams to build and simply toss in platoons.
Phase 3 is more challenging but with a properly heated squad and decent mods you can 4/4. Only pain in the kitten is the BH special mission which is due to BH needing a rework and bad.
Phases 4 through 6 become the MAJOR issue of the mode. The difficulty skyrockets to where a high geared and moded team can’t full clear a phase. That abilities we NEED to clear them are locked behind platoon paywalls that include toons that are not farmable except with real money. That’s not ok.
A good standard for the slices should be g7 for phase 1, g8 for phase 2, g9 for 3, etc etc. That would prove the limits of a roster and would truly be a goal to work towards. It would allow players to choose what team then need to get to g12, which mods to use, and maybe would spark a darkside revolution in arena? Idk but it’s a thought.
Overall the potential is there for DSTB. It needs tweaks and the toons need reworks. The platoon requirements need to be reconfigured to not have a toon in it unless it’s farmable outside of chromiums and crystal packs.
Nobody compares the two Raids and says that the Tank needs nerfed because it can't be solo'd with a single CLS. The Tank is more difficult than the Pit. Everybody knows it. Everybody deals with it.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
@GhostTruckin a fast glimpse to your roster is enough to understand why you talk like this. We're not all day-one players with some bunch of money spent on the game. No wonder you easily get through DS TBs. But BREAKING NEWS: players like you are a minority in the game. You can't apply your standards to all players.
I'll agree that the DS TB is harder relative to LS TB - but if this is your profile you have to understand that you're just getting started in this game. While it's a good base for a roster you have, your DS units are very under-developed. Meanwhile, your LS characters - and especially Rebels - are much more developed. If I just take our top 3 rows of characters by power - 18 in total - 12 of them are Rebels. Of the 6 DS characters there, none of them have zetas and Vader, SO, and Maul really need their zeta to be of much use at all. So while they are geared decently, they are not of adequate quality. Probably the best DS toon in the game - Thrawn - is gear 8! Then if I look at the next row of 6 - 5/6 of those toons are LS also. So 17/24 or your highest power toons are LS units. Next row - same things - 5/6 are LS. So 22/30 or 73% LS.
Now contrast that with this more balanced roster - 15/30 of the top units are DS, 15 are LS. Look specifically and some things really stick out that this player made specific choices in resources that is letting them do better at DS than most: Chirrut is still G11. Han is still G11. R2 is still G11. Wedge is still G11. Baze still G11. RJT is g8 and BB8 is still G11. How many rosters have those toons at max gear as a priority? Meanwhile, less "meta" DS toons are G12: Ventress, Tarkin, DK, Vader, Kylo, Boba, and EP. Of course someone with a balanced roster that's been playing long will do better than a newer player OR an old player that's camped on LS units like Wiggs/Rex/Chaze/CLS/Han for almost 2 years in arena and refused to branch out.
Even if this isn't both the accounts in question for these players, this is very typical of rosters generally prior to DS TB. I don't know how many of the players complaining about DS TB really have a fair point of reference given the skew in the strength of their LS / DS roster balance. If you're on an old LB, look at the players in the 2.4-2.8 GP range or so...browse some of those rosters and it's pretty shocking how much many players have very underdeveloped DS units.
If you're on an old LB, look at the players in the 2.4-2.8 GP range or so...browse some of those rosters and it's pretty shocking how much many players have very underdeveloped DS units.
LS has generally been the best bang for your buck (<- ingame resources).
I know my roster was heavily skewed towards LS prior to the DS TB announcement. I still wouldn't call it "balanced" as far as ls/ds, i do allright though in DS TB.
What most people ignore is that a large part of doing well in TB's is just having alot of GP. They get stressed out over not being able to clear the missions and what not, but who cares? You're not going to get max rewards any time soon anyway. Atleast with the combat missions you've got something to strive for, once you're able to 4/4 or 6/6 all missions, TB is just boring (imo). Waiting for your guild to accumulate enough GP for the next star, blegh.
https://swgoh.gg/u/leef/
^ this is me btw. Not sure if that makes my opinion more or less valuable for you guys though
Nobody compares the two Raids and says that the Tank needs nerfed because it can't be solo'd with a single CLS. The Tank is more difficult than the Pit. Everybody knows it. Everybody deals with it.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
You’re comparing Apple to oranges.
But when you keep bringing up the tank, it needed to be nerfed initially because there was far too much health in the tank to the degree that anyone not named Team IN couldn’t reap the rewards.
And again, nobody wants a full clear. They want the ability to be able to clear phases with properly tuned DS toons. Why should my thrawn team get wiped on wave 4 when they are all g11 and well moded? In phase 4
Nobody compares the two Raids and says that the Tank needs nerfed because it can't be solo'd with a single CLS. The Tank is more difficult than the Pit. Everybody knows it. Everybody deals with it.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
You’re comparing Apple to oranges.
But when you keep bringing up the tank, it needed to be nerfed initially because there was far too much health in the tank to the degree that anyone not named Team IN couldn’t reap the rewards.
And again, nobody wants a full clear. They want the ability to be able to clear phases with properly tuned DS toons. Why should my thrawn team get wiped on wave 4 when they are all g11 and well moded? In phase 4
seem pretty comparable to me tbh
Only the "normal" difficulty got nerfed, "heroic"difficulty remained the same.
DS TB has already been nerfed. Phases 1/3, 4/6 remained the same.
If your g11 team gets whiped in phase 4 you're doing something wrong.
My guild couldn't clear hAAT when it was released, yesterday i had one team do 20m+ on auto. Something similar will happen to DS TB.
Nobody compares the two Raids and says that the Tank needs nerfed because it can't be solo'd with a single CLS. The Tank is more difficult than the Pit. Everybody knows it. Everybody deals with it.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
You’re comparing Apple to oranges.
But when you keep bringing up the tank, it needed to be nerfed initially because there was far too much health in the tank to the degree that anyone not named Team IN couldn’t reap the rewards.
And again, nobody wants a full clear. They want the ability to be able to clear phases with properly tuned DS toons. Why should my thrawn team get wiped on wave 4 when they are all g11 and well moded? In phase 4
seem pretty comparable to me tbh
Only the "normal" difficulty got nerfed, "heroic"difficulty remained the same.
DS TB has already been nerfed. Phases 1/3, 4/6 remained the same.
If your g11 team gets whiped in phase 4 you're doing something wrong.
My guild couldn't clear hAAT when it was released, yesterday i had one team do 20m+ on auto. Something similar will happen to DS TB.
Actually what’s wrong is that there are far too many elites than can full cleanse the entire team, gain TM across the board, resist debuffs, and fully recover their HP on the brink of getting killed. Not like I can fight a battle of attrition with an AOE that deals massive damage.
Nobody compares the two Raids and says that the Tank needs nerfed because it can't be solo'd with a single CLS. The Tank is more difficult than the Pit. Everybody knows it. Everybody deals with it.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
You’re comparing Apple to oranges.
But when you keep bringing up the tank, it needed to be nerfed initially because there was far too much health in the tank to the degree that anyone not named Team IN couldn’t reap the rewards.
And again, nobody wants a full clear. They want the ability to be able to clear phases with properly tuned DS toons. Why should my thrawn team get wiped on wave 4 when they are all g11 and well moded? In phase 4
seem pretty comparable to me tbh
Only the "normal" difficulty got nerfed, "heroic"difficulty remained the same.
DS TB has already been nerfed. Phases 1/3, 4/6 remained the same.
If your g11 team gets whiped in phase 4 you're doing something wrong.
My guild couldn't clear hAAT when it was released, yesterday i had one team do 20m+ on auto. Something similar will happen to DS TB.
If you want to deny that DSTB needs more tuning then go ahead and keep living in the dark. But the fact of the matter is that current DS characters given their pool and synergy and the requirements in platoons, need a rework and additional toons.
LSTB is tuned very well in my mind. You can complete the waves in each phase based on your gear and mods. The difficulty increases a fair amount each phase with the 6th phase requiring g12 toons for a full clear and even then you still need some luck and solid strategy and understanding of your enemy.
DSTB? Works that way in phases 1-3 and then just completely gets FUBAR
If you want to deny that DSTB needs more tuning then go ahead and keep living in the dark. But the fact of the matter is that current DS characters given their pool and synergy and the requirements in platoons, need a rework and additional toons.
LSTB is tuned very well in my mind. You can complete the waves in each phase based on your gear and mods. The difficulty increases a fair amount each phase with the 6th phase requiring g12 toons for a full clear and even then you still need some luck and solid strategy and understanding of your enemy.
DSTB? Works that way in phases 1-3 and then just completely gets FUBAR
I don't like the platoon requirements in DS TB either. They're alot worse than with LS TB imo. It's pretty much the only thing i don't like about DS TB.
I do however like the battles, more than the LS battles. To each their own i guess.
As far as difficulty, the whole point people are trying to make is that DS TB was released more recently than LS TB, wich generally means it's gonna be more difficult, wich is great! unfortunately some people can't see the benefit in having difficult content, but others like myself do.
Replies
I see what youre saying. The lightside toons are easier to invest in as they for the most part arent behind paywalls like the DS toons are. I can understand that
I'd rather get a rework of some of the DS characters to bring them up than nerf the content down.
If you were accurate in your presumptions regarding DS char usefulness, the. There would be none that are able to beat the combat missions. Since there are a fair few that do beat the missions , and folks even layout how best to figure out attack orders, etc, and folks that go 4/4 , . . . There seems to be a slight disconnect between your presumptions about how DS TB is built, and how players are faring.
If you have no challenge, which is what making DS Tb easier would accomplish, then what exactly is the point of playing?
Didn’t read my question, did you? Looking at it numerically, does it sound balanced? Yes, or no. It is a question with only two answers. The fact that you didn’t answer the question directly speaks volumes.
Just things like IPD being in platoons with a mission that most can’t beat is kitten. Starck and his RNG drops is major kitten. How are many going to even farm him if he doesn’t always show up? The fact that Saxon was the last farmable DS toon. And that is being of RNG in the store plus a single high node.
I'll put it plainly for you and your binary aptitude, balanced yes , because it's the lastest end game content that has been released.
Will it be nerfed down to be the same as LS ? No, why? Because LS is not the latest and newest content.
Then let me respond to your one-track, disconnected, self-interested perspective. It is poorly balanced against a statistically inferior subset of toons. There are exceptions, but DS toons, by and large, do not stack up to LS toons and placing them against the same, or greater level of punishment without a significant rework is poor design. This isn’t Dark Souls, where skill is paramount. Stop trumping it up like it’s supposed to be. You are entirely at the mercy of gear and RNG.
Additionally, CG misrepresented the character requirements with respect to gearing and * level in their mission descriptions. Finally, this was never stated to be “end-game”. The apologists made that up to excuse the atrocious balance. The last few phases could be considered “end-game” tier, but this was intended to be guild friendly.
Lol yes that's exactly it, sad that you think that but each to his own @Drazhar .
I never claimed it was easy, in fact it's a challenge, as it is supposed to be. However you and @AldaisKaroth have made it abundantly clear that you wish for an easy button win because you believe that DS is a worse faction to use.
Whatever game you refer to, from what I see. There is always skill involved, simply mashing a button is not typically how you will achieve anything with myriad squads and team comps. What a person seems to forget , or is unwilling to understand is that easy modes become boring, having goals to work towards keeps things interesting , and blaming the game for lack of a better target makes a person seem, . .well, like they just aren't actually interested in playing and are more interested in an "I want it NOW button"
Now, since apparently , it's a crime to have played the game for awhile, and apparently it is also a crime to have built squads up for specific purposes. Pray tell, what exactly is the criteria you feel appropriate in order to have an opinion on a game mode?
@Drazhar and how long have you played? What have you done to develop your roster?
@AldaisKaroth and how long have you played? And what have you done to develop your roster?
Do you see how pointless it is to try determine anything based on a roster? I'll wager I have players that I know who have less time in this game that are doing a great job in DS TB, because they are working towards a goal, and getting things accomplished. Which is the point of these TB, in case you forgot they are not a here is your stuff for just showing up only mode.. They do payout for just showing up, you get a base prize if you will, and if you put some effort in, you get better rewards. Now, get an entire guild to put some effort in, and the rewards increase as well. So , disconnect? Right, . . . That's exactly it, not , you know, play and get better in order to do better or anything lol, can't have that now.
Do you really think that it matters one iota whether a person has played since launch, or since xx 2016, or xx 2017? Or better yet, do you really think that a player since late 2017-2018 should be playing everything in game right out the gate?
https://swgoh.gg/u/_el_/collection/?f=Dark+Side
Basically DS is manageable for average players if they invest into DS.
So what's your point? Everything ingame should be easy because the overwhelming majority of the players are noobs? We're getting there though, there's isn't a whole lot left ingame that remains a challenge.
Take your elitist mentality and peddle it to someone who’s interested in what you have to say. I’ve been constantly working to develop my roster and will continue to do so. But, to claim this content isnt overtuned is laughable. Simple fact is that a P3 Battle should not be eating G10-12 zeta teams, period. That’s not wanting an easy button, that’s wanting an actual CURVE to the difficulty. Y’know? A scale? A progression? Or is that a foreign concept? By your logic, since it’s “end game” (never stated by the devs), every single node should require 7* G12 god-mod toons, so you have something to work towards.
Definitely agree that we need reworks of DS toons, but even with a boost to those, full team cleanses for multiple characters are ridiculous.
The expectation isn’t for it to be tuned to the same difficulty. It’s expected to be tuned to what characters we have available for DS.
Given how few viable DS teams there are, and the terrible platoon requirements for the slices, there needs to be more done to fix the mode.
A properly modded ZVeers team should not be wiped out in phase 4. That’s where the challenge should start.
This here is awful design, requiring us to place the exclusive toons in platoons.
But that horse is dead many times over and I don’t foresee a change.
Let’s just say that I am less than thrilled at the idea of spending crystals (for many actual cash) on a toon only to put him in a platoon. Then multiply that requirement by 10.
Is that it?
As far as difficulty is concerned the scale is miscued. Phases 1 and 2 are relatively easy to clear and get 4/4. That’s fine. It requires 2 and 3 Star toons. Experiment with synergies, see how abilities for DS work and decide on what teams to build and simply toss in platoons.
Phase 3 is more challenging but with a properly heated squad and decent mods you can 4/4. Only pain in the kitten is the BH special mission which is due to BH needing a rework and bad.
Phases 4 through 6 become the MAJOR issue of the mode. The difficulty skyrockets to where a high geared and moded team can’t full clear a phase. That abilities we NEED to clear them are locked behind platoon paywalls that include toons that are not farmable except with real money. That’s not ok.
A good standard for the slices should be g7 for phase 1, g8 for phase 2, g9 for 3, etc etc. That would prove the limits of a roster and would truly be a goal to work towards. It would allow players to choose what team then need to get to g12, which mods to use, and maybe would spark a darkside revolution in arena? Idk but it’s a thought.
Overall the potential is there for DSTB. It needs tweaks and the toons need reworks. The platoon requirements need to be reconfigured to not have a toon in it unless it’s farmable outside of chromiums and crystal packs.
The reality is, there was a huge outcry to nerf the Tank Raid when it was released, and guilds were scrambling to get members that could do 2% damage in each phase. Now, many guilds have it on farm, and it's actually pretty easy for one person with a moderate- to well-developed roster to clear the whole thing.
What I think has happened here is that people see LS and DS and automatically believe that there should be some kind of balance involved. If you can instead think of TB's similar to how you think of Raids (as separate content built on a similar framework), the balance issue goes away. Then you can stop being frustrated, and start dealing with how you can improve your roster to complete that content.
I'll agree that the DS TB is harder relative to LS TB - but if this is your profile you have to understand that you're just getting started in this game. While it's a good base for a roster you have, your DS units are very under-developed. Meanwhile, your LS characters - and especially Rebels - are much more developed. If I just take our top 3 rows of characters by power - 18 in total - 12 of them are Rebels. Of the 6 DS characters there, none of them have zetas and Vader, SO, and Maul really need their zeta to be of much use at all. So while they are geared decently, they are not of adequate quality. Probably the best DS toon in the game - Thrawn - is gear 8! Then if I look at the next row of 6 - 5/6 of those toons are LS also. So 17/24 or your highest power toons are LS units. Next row - same things - 5/6 are LS. So 22/30 or 73% LS.
https://swgoh.gg/u/drazhar/collection/
Now contrast that with this more balanced roster - 15/30 of the top units are DS, 15 are LS. Look specifically and some things really stick out that this player made specific choices in resources that is letting them do better at DS than most: Chirrut is still G11. Han is still G11. R2 is still G11. Wedge is still G11. Baze still G11. RJT is g8 and BB8 is still G11. How many rosters have those toons at max gear as a priority? Meanwhile, less "meta" DS toons are G12: Ventress, Tarkin, DK, Vader, Kylo, Boba, and EP. Of course someone with a balanced roster that's been playing long will do better than a newer player OR an old player that's camped on LS units like Wiggs/Rex/Chaze/CLS/Han for almost 2 years in arena and refused to branch out.
https://swgoh.gg/u/ghosttruckin/collection/
Even if this isn't both the accounts in question for these players, this is very typical of rosters generally prior to DS TB. I don't know how many of the players complaining about DS TB really have a fair point of reference given the skew in the strength of their LS / DS roster balance. If you're on an old LB, look at the players in the 2.4-2.8 GP range or so...browse some of those rosters and it's pretty shocking how much many players have very underdeveloped DS units.
LS has generally been the best bang for your buck (<- ingame resources).
I know my roster was heavily skewed towards LS prior to the DS TB announcement. I still wouldn't call it "balanced" as far as ls/ds, i do allright though in DS TB.
What most people ignore is that a large part of doing well in TB's is just having alot of GP. They get stressed out over not being able to clear the missions and what not, but who cares? You're not going to get max rewards any time soon anyway. Atleast with the combat missions you've got something to strive for, once you're able to 4/4 or 6/6 all missions, TB is just boring (imo). Waiting for your guild to accumulate enough GP for the next star, blegh.
https://swgoh.gg/u/leef/
^ this is me btw. Not sure if that makes my opinion more or less valuable for you guys though
You’re comparing Apple to oranges.
But when you keep bringing up the tank, it needed to be nerfed initially because there was far too much health in the tank to the degree that anyone not named Team IN couldn’t reap the rewards.
And again, nobody wants a full clear. They want the ability to be able to clear phases with properly tuned DS toons. Why should my thrawn team get wiped on wave 4 when they are all g11 and well moded? In phase 4
seem pretty comparable to me tbh
Only the "normal" difficulty got nerfed, "heroic"difficulty remained the same.
DS TB has already been nerfed. Phases 1/3, 4/6 remained the same.
If your g11 team gets whiped in phase 4 you're doing something wrong.
My guild couldn't clear hAAT when it was released, yesterday i had one team do 20m+ on auto. Something similar will happen to DS TB.
Actually what’s wrong is that there are far too many elites than can full cleanse the entire team, gain TM across the board, resist debuffs, and fully recover their HP on the brink of getting killed. Not like I can fight a battle of attrition with an AOE that deals massive damage.
If you want to deny that DSTB needs more tuning then go ahead and keep living in the dark. But the fact of the matter is that current DS characters given their pool and synergy and the requirements in platoons, need a rework and additional toons.
LSTB is tuned very well in my mind. You can complete the waves in each phase based on your gear and mods. The difficulty increases a fair amount each phase with the 6th phase requiring g12 toons for a full clear and even then you still need some luck and solid strategy and understanding of your enemy.
DSTB? Works that way in phases 1-3 and then just completely gets FUBAR
I don't like the platoon requirements in DS TB either. They're alot worse than with LS TB imo. It's pretty much the only thing i don't like about DS TB.
I do however like the battles, more than the LS battles. To each their own i guess.
As far as difficulty, the whole point people are trying to make is that DS TB was released more recently than LS TB, wich generally means it's gonna be more difficult, wich is great! unfortunately some people can't see the benefit in having difficult content, but others like myself do.