Empire- the good guys?

Prev13
This has been the idea on my mind for a very long time when anyone would mention anything SW related. And the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. Here are some key ideas that made me hold onto that thought:
By looking at the story from another angle, Luke Skywalker was a child that was indoctrinated into an old religion, led to join a terrorist group, In the end blew up a military installation (death star) killing hundreds of thousands innocent workers, people that were working there to provide for their little kids and family!
True, Palpatine brainwashed the senate into following his ideas, but this brought unity and direction to the senate, pushing the whole galaxy into a single direction, rather that tearing it apart as it usually goes with senates where everyone is too busy trying to make the opposition look bad on cameras...
From the start, the empire has only sought to weed out a rebellion (keyword REBELLION). On both death star shows of force, key rebelllion/resistance planets were targeted.
We all know what Han Solo did for a living. Yet he is portrayed as one of the most iconic good guys in the franchise!
And lets not forget, Tarkin brought the unemployment on Alderaan to 0.

Leave your own fun fact, there are many more! For the Empire!

Replies

  • This is why Hydra Bob in Deadpool is so funny.
  • Topics SW-related but not game-related go to Off-Topic. So, moved there.
  • Sith are definitely the good guys
  • It is true that the rebels killed hundreds of innocent workers on the Death Star, but the empire killed millions of innocent people on Alderaan. It works both ways.
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    The Death Star was a weapon, how is using a weapon to get what you want good? Also from what I remember Palpatine was given total power by the senate because they wanted the war over, they gave up voting, and democracy, to get results, which is more of a dictatorship thing. Anyways Palpatine knew he was bad and seemed to love it, since he pretty much controlled the whole Empire you know it was bad.
  • From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
  • LaksonVell
    421 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    It is true that the rebels killed hundreds of innocent workers on the Death Star, but the empire killed millions of innocent people on Alderaan. It works both ways.
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    The Death Star was a weapon, how is using a weapon to get what you want good? Also from what I remember Palpatine was given total power by the senate because they wanted the war over, they gave up voting, and democracy, to get results, which is more of a dictatorship thing. Anyways Palpatine knew he was bad and seemed to love it, since he pretty much controlled the whole Empire you know it was bad.

    Palpatine was merely furthering his own agenda. That does not make him any more bad than USA for keeping the oil wars going for the sake of its own economy... It's just politics
  • Although many claim the empire were racist to people that weren't human, it was all a big lie! Look at grand admiral thrawn, a decorated war hero and a non human
  • Based on the fact that there is a narrator at the beginning of every movie. Star wars films must be documentaries told in the Victors point of view. With the rebels defeating the empire it's obviously a propaganda movie trying to corral the people under rebel control. Ep was probably a wonderful man dedicating his entire life to the people. Only to be taken out be one of his officers (someone he trained and guided threw life like a father). Star wars is a story similar to King Arthur. The people had everything but that wasn't enough for a select few. They destroyed everything for personal power and gain.
  • If not contaminated by sith, empire is good guys. People always need faction to keep things in order. Jedi is the worst.

    What is more evil that sith? Jedi that lost his belief. Yea.. i'm lookin' at u anakin!!
  • snarzenal
    316 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Let’s not forget the Empire was a regime which regulated everything it could get it’s hands on. If it couldn’t control/bully into submission, it would just destroy. The First Order is no different.

    The rebels were rebellious against a totalitarian regime.
  • No. Good guys don't do this.

    sHtQrVc.gif
  • War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.
  • ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.
  • ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    Is there reasons to rebel absolutely there is. But the innocent casualties of the rebellion are inherently the fault of the rebels starting the conflict. When deciding to start a rebellion that should be part of the discussion on is it worth it.
  • ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    Is there reasons to rebel absolutely there is. But the innocent casualties of the rebellion are inherently the fault of the rebels starting the conflict. When deciding to start a rebellion that should be part of the discussion on is it worth it.

    I'd argue deaths are the fault of the oppressors, but I see what you're saying. But people have rights. You can't say too many people will get hurt for that one person to have rights.
  • ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    Is there reasons to rebel absolutely there is. But the innocent casualties of the rebellion are inherently the fault of the rebels starting the conflict. When deciding to start a rebellion that should be part of the discussion on is it worth it.

    They might be a contributing factor but ultimately the Empire's decision on how to react is their own. Also there is a famous quote "Give me liberty or give me death!", some things are worth fighting for to the death.
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    LaksonVell wrote: »
    It is true that the rebels killed hundreds of innocent workers on the Death Star, but the empire killed millions of innocent people on Alderaan. It works both ways.
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    The Death Star was a weapon, how is using a weapon to get what you want good? Also from what I remember Palpatine was given total power by the senate because they wanted the war over, they gave up voting, and democracy, to get results, which is more of a dictatorship thing. Anyways Palpatine knew he was bad and seemed to love it, since he pretty much controlled the whole Empire you know it was bad.

    Palpatine was merely furthering his own agenda. That does not make him any more bad than USA for keeping the oil wars going for the sake of its own economy... It's just politics

    I'm not sure what you're saying. Palpatine was still responsible for his actions, everyone is.
  • Allenb60 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    Is there reasons to rebel absolutely there is. But the innocent casualties of the rebellion are inherently the fault of the rebels starting the conflict. When deciding to start a rebellion that should be part of the discussion on is it worth it.

    They might be a contributing factor but ultimately the Empire's decision on how to react is their own. Also there is a famous quote "Give me liberty or give me death!", some things are worth fighting for to the death.

    Some things are worth fighting for to the death. Is all about perspective. You also could put it this way. Some things are worth others dying for. Because that's more accurate in this case. Also people give up freedom for security regularly. It's all about perspective once again.
  • snarzenal wrote: »
    Let’s not forget the Empire was a regime which regulated everything it could get it’s hands on. If it couldn’t control/bully into submission, it would just destroy. The First Order is no different.

    The rebels were rebellious against a totalitarian regime.

    So you are saying the police are bad for trying to maintain/forcing control instead of just letting the rebelious parts of the ghetto population run "free"?
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    Is there reasons to rebel absolutely there is. But the innocent casualties of the rebellion are inherently the fault of the rebels starting the conflict. When deciding to start a rebellion that should be part of the discussion on is it worth it.

    They might be a contributing factor but ultimately the Empire's decision on how to react is their own. Also there is a famous quote "Give me liberty or give me death!", some things are worth fighting for to the death.

    Some things are worth fighting for to the death. Is all about perspective. You also could put it this way. Some things are worth others dying for. Because that's more accurate in this case. Also people give up freedom for security regularly. It's all about perspective once again.

    Well heroes aren't known for giving up their morals, just because one feels things should be a certain way doesn't justify doing anything to make it happen, although all of the lightside characters in Star Wars did have a low point. Obi-Wan was probably the best for avoiding anger and the killing of others, but for whatever reason the death of Qui-Gon-Jin made him vengeful, both in the movie and the Clone Wars.
    Post edited by Allenb60 on
  • ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    I just went over the empire wookiepedia page. So the empire was established after the clone wars by EP. Even with it being described as an autocracy, there was still a senate for over 20 years. During the time of the empire, the empire has used resource to mostly advance economy and technology. I can still feel the liberal cringe when I read "The empire has desolated vast natural beauty for the sake of progress". Last I checked that is exactly what our own economy is based on.
    "rebelions were swiftly crushed" I feel like that is the point of maintaining order. There will always be someone who disagrees with the way things are done.
    There is a bunch of mentions about rebelion cells rising but no mention of exactly what it is that the empire is doing. The only mention is that EP is disolving the senate shortly after the construction of the DS.
    EP also uses HIMSELF as bait to lure out the resistance during the consturction of the second death star. Quite the unexpected move for somebody who is holding the galaxy under his rule to not just send a double or not even show himself at all...
  • LaksonVell wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    War always leads to unwanted casualties. If you think about it. Rebels are to blame if they would have just fell in line and excepted there place in the universe there wouldn't have been a war. Peace is only possible if both sides want it. A rebellion leads to war, how isn't it there fault.

    No. Sometimes you need to kill bad guys. By that logic, we should have just fallen in line and let Na.zis gas and oven people. Sometime bad people only want peace on their terms, and if their terms are obscene, you gotta punch them in the face.

    I just went over the empire wookiepedia page. So the empire was established after the clone wars by EP. Even with it being described as an autocracy, there was still a senate for over 20 years. During the time of the empire, the empire has used resource to mostly advance economy and technology. I can still feel the liberal cringe when I read "The empire has desolated vast natural beauty for the sake of progress". Last I checked that is exactly what our own economy is based on.
    "rebelions were swiftly crushed" I feel like that is the point of maintaining order. There will always be someone who disagrees with the way things are done.
    There is a bunch of mentions about rebelion cells rising but no mention of exactly what it is that the empire is doing. The only mention is that EP is disolving the senate shortly after the construction of the DS.
    EP also uses HIMSELF as bait to lure out the resistance during the consturction of the second death star. Quite the unexpected move for somebody who is holding the galaxy under his rule to not just send a double or not even show himself at all...

    Are you saying the Empire's rule is legitimate because they ruled for years before dissolving the Senate? Uh....no. Sorry if I missed what you were trying to say.
  • No. Good guys don't do this.

    sHtQrVc.gif

    This what you do when a house is infested w/ black mold. Nothing different here. Just more rebel propaganda.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    No. Good guys don't do this.

    sHtQrVc.gif

    This what you do when a house is infested w/ black mold. Nothing different here. Just more rebel propaganda.

    You get rid of the house not the whole planet. That's Empire talk.

    giphy.gif
  • "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy. And... we shall have... peace." - Palpatine

    "To ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire! For a safe, and secure, society!" - Palpatine

    A virtuous man, who stood for peace & security. He ultimately gave his life to try and ensure this peace & security.

    “I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire.” - Darth Vader

    "Luke, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." - Darth Vader

    A good & caring father & humanitarian. He, unfortunately, let his feelings for his terrorist son overshadow his quest for galaxy-wide peace & prosperity.
  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Fun fact: The Empire are German National Socialists Party. (The colloquial term for which is so invective it's censored.)

    But, sure, good people on both sides or whatever.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Gifafi
    6017 posts Member
    declassify and release the memo!
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
Sign In or Register to comment.