Bugs and Issues feedback

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225 posts EA Administrator
This discussion was created from comments split from: February speculation (MERGE).

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  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Notnukin wrote: »
    Explore all avenues? Interesting...can we moved bugs and technical problems back to where they have visibility? Here on the main forums? Waiting for ban in 3...2...1

    I do realize this is getting woefully off topic, but I wanted to specifically answer this:

    It's ok to ask for things!
    We're always championing new methods to promote the game and serve the community. Bugs were moved to Answers HQ in order for our team to better address, log and record trending issues reported by the community using tools and features that are simply not available on the official forums.

    Alternatively, tools have been provided to our playerbase ar Answers HQ (+1XP, Accept as solution, quick replies etc) to signal boost and bring issues to the fore that're important to you for us to address. It's a culture shift to be sure, but if nothing else, I encourage you to explore it.
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • @CG_Kozispoon maybe that was the intent but several issues have gone unresolved, and many don't know the problem exists. To top it all off you have a me too tab which in light of the current climate is probably not the best choice.

    Right now you have instructed many people of how to resolve one issue that then causes many to get answers that doknt even reference the problem much less provide a solution.

    I love star wars and these reworks can put some spark into the entire game but when you come across how you do so many times even meta changing things cannot overcome the growing discontent.

    You can have your thread back....I hope feb 21st is awesome.
  • FYI: pulling all discussion of bugs offsite is very frustrating to the players. It has the appearance (warranted or not) that such discussion isn't welcome, and is just being hidden. So, based on your statement that it's ok to ask for things, I'll ask this...

    Please leave discussion regarding bugs on this forum. Having an additional 'official' bug reporting system off site to gather data is fine. But we really need to be able to have educated discussion of game mechanics, including bugs, on this site.
  • @CG_Kozispoon you also have support through answers being triaged by people who aren't on the forums and have no clue what is going on. During the pop up deals fiasco, you had people being told that the deals didn't exist or that they weren't really having a problem,even weeks later.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    FYI: pulling all discussion of bugs offsite is very frustrating to the players. It has the appearance (warranted or not) that such discussion isn't welcome, and is just being hidden. So, based on your statement that it's ok to ask for things, I'll ask this...

    Please leave discussion regarding bugs on this forum. Having an additional 'official' bug reporting system off site to gather data is fine. But we really need to be able to have educated discussion of game mechanics, including bugs, on this site.

    The problem is, every post here is a post that doesn't get made there. The goal of directing all conversation there is that it highlights the issue and shows how widespread it is.
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Blizzisme wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon you also have support through answers being triaged by people who aren't on the forums and have no clue what is going on. During the pop up deals fiasco, you had people being told that the deals didn't exist or that they weren't really having a problem,even weeks later.

    The EA Help that was addressing reports here on the forums before is the same EA Help addressing reports on Answers HQ. We're always working to improve communication and ensure support is informed of any updates and in game issues as quickly as possible, but there is always room for improvement.
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • Kyno wrote: »
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    FYI: pulling all discussion of bugs offsite is very frustrating to the players. It has the appearance (warranted or not) that such discussion isn't welcome, and is just being hidden. So, based on your statement that it's ok to ask for things, I'll ask this...

    Please leave discussion regarding bugs on this forum. Having an additional 'official' bug reporting system off site to gather data is fine. But we really need to be able to have educated discussion of game mechanics, including bugs, on this site.

    The problem is, every post here is a post that doesn't get made there. The goal of directing all conversation there is that it highlights the issue and shows how widespread it is.

    That's a huge assumption. They are not mutually exclusive actions. If bug discussion among players was allowed, in addition to clear direction to post those bugs at the other site (maybe a mod edit to the first post in a bug thread), more people may realize that a given bug was effecting their gameplay, and there would actually be more legit bug reporting. Closing bug threads the moment they're posted stifles discussion.
  • Let me offer an example to how this shouldn't work. In the thread below, someone asked a relatively simple question. The only answer is from a mod, who immediately closed the thread. There has been no discussion at all about the OP's question. No other players were able to comment. And now the thread is dead.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/157456/anyone-else-not-getting-character-shards-from-shipments#latest

    Maybe someone else is having the same issue as the guy that posted in that thread. If there were any kind of discussion allowed, maybe other people would make it a point to check their own account, possibly discovering that they too have this problem, which they could report via the link that Kyno posted when he shut down the thread.

    As it is, there could be +10k players out there that this is randomly happening to, but they never had a reason to check for delivery every time they bought shards from shipments. Those people won't ever see this possible bug thread because it's been effectively killed. And if people don't know to check, they certainly won't be reporting it to an off-site bug data center.

    So, if your goal is to 'highlight the issue and show how widespread it is', you're failing. If the goal is to stifle discussion and bury bug reports, well... you've got a great system in place for that.
  • StarSon
    5446 posts Member
    Notnukin wrote: »
    Explore all avenues? Interesting...can we moved bugs and technical problems back to where they have visibility? Here on the main forums? Waiting for ban in 3...2...1

    I do realize this is getting woefully off topic, but I wanted to specifically answer this:

    It's ok to ask for things!
    We're always championing new methods to promote the game and serve the community. Bugs were moved to Answers HQ in order for our team to better address, log and record trending issues reported by the community using tools and features that are simply not available on the official forums.

    Alternatively, tools have been provided to our playerbase ar Answers HQ (+1XP, Accept as solution, quick replies etc) to signal boost and bring issues to the fore that're important to you for us to address. It's a culture shift to be sure, but if nothing else, I encourage you to explore it.

    The issue is visibility. Someone posts a bug here (the game's official forums) because that's what makes the most sense. Then you direct them to some other website, and it's confusing. Even worse, there is no easy way to get to that other site. They have to post here, get redirected there, and then if they don't ever come back to check it again, it may never get reported to someone that can do something about it.

    At the very least, there should be a link to the Answers HQ in game, and in several places on this forum since this is where we are directed for literally everything else. On top of that, rather than just closing these posts here, you should have a process to import them to Answers HQ, though I realize the challenges in actually implementing such a thing.
  • Good thoughts, @StarSon. Right now, when I click on "Bugs and Issues" on the right side-bar, it gives me "Reports" and "Technical Issues" which when clicked, take you straight to the SWGoH section of Answers HQ. If you click archive and read the Announcement or "sticky", there are links there as well. Do you have a suggestion for an additional location?
    **Please tag me (@ShaolinPunk) if you need assistance.** My Collection. . My Poll.. Ally Code: 332-622-913 Discord: shaolin_punk#2107
  • Good thoughts, @StarSon. Right now, when I click on "Bugs and Issues" on the right side-bar, it gives me "Reports" and "Technical Issues" which when clicked, take you straight to the SWGoH section of Answers HQ. If you click archive and read the Announcement or "sticky", there are links there as well. Do you have a suggestion for an additional location?

    @ShaolinPunk I'd actually like to suggest leaving a link in the header bar (right where the link to the EA website is.) This would be far more noticeable for new and old forum-goers alike, there's plenty of space for it, and it doesn't look like it'll just take you to another part of the forum like the "Reports" and "Technical issues" links, which should have an (answers HQ) tag on them to clarify that they actually redirect to answers HQ.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    FYI: pulling all discussion of bugs offsite is very frustrating to the players. It has the appearance (warranted or not) that such discussion isn't welcome, and is just being hidden. So, based on your statement that it's ok to ask for things, I'll ask this...

    Please leave discussion regarding bugs on this forum. Having an additional 'official' bug reporting system off site to gather data is fine. But we really need to be able to have educated discussion of game mechanics, including bugs, on this site.

    The problem is, every post here is a post that doesn't get made there. The goal of directing all conversation there is that it highlights the issue and shows how widespread it is.

    That's a huge assumption. They are not mutually exclusive actions. If bug discussion among players was allowed, in addition to clear direction to post those bugs at the other site (maybe a mod edit to the first post in a bug thread), more people may realize that a given bug was effecting their gameplay, and there would actually be more legit bug reporting. Closing bug threads the moment they're posted stifles discussion.

    People complain about an extra click to look in a sub forum. its not a huge assumption that they would not want to post something 2 times.

    My point is that if there is a huge discussion here people will think they dont need to or may enough people have, and we start to lose 5,10,15% of the posts over at EA Help, that defeats the purpose.

    The "new plan", we are still working out details is when we see a bug or issue that seems to be wide spread or being posted a fair amount we will leave a "moved: X problem" link in GD to highlight the issue and allow people to follow that, but still direct the conversation where it needs to be. We are trying to ensure that players can see this and help everyone get the help they deserve.
  • Well, it seems like you've made up your mind.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    Well, it seems like you've made up your mind.

    No, we are always taking feedback and trying to do things better. I just dont think having the conversation in 2 places helps when one of those locations has tracking to help, it makes sense to keep that conversation there. It is also the primary direction we are given, so that is our starting place and we will work from there.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    As a long time player and an active participant on the forum, my position is that conversation should happen here, and reporting should happen there. People should be able to search, read, and comment on bugs, then click the link to the bug report for that issue and click 'me too' or post their particular details there if warranted.

    That is something you would need to take up with Kozi in a direct message. I don't see why you would want reporting to be optional, and everything else that you said short of talking here is 100% possible in the current system.
  • First, reporting is always optional. Nobody is forcing people to report bugs. But nice attempt at diversion.

    Further, conversation about bugs isn't possible in the current system because any threads that refer to bugs get closed almost immediately. (That's not a slight against the mods. You guys are just doing what you're told.) But as a player, I believe the conversation is the most important part.

    And yes, I'm hoping @CG_Kozispoon is reading this thread and will chime in. She said we are welcome to ask for things. ... I'm asking. But, however this conversation goes, I hope it stays out of DM's for the sake of open communication and transparency between CG and the player base.
  • +1 to AnnerDoon and I will just add that I am bemused about the constant shifting and closing of threads to "appropriate categories."

    Feedback feels like the graveyard for all suggestions, good or bad. And the Bugs and Issues thread is at the bottom of the webpage. If you want to highlight that there is a current problem in the game, shouldn't it be at the top to bring it to immediate attention?

    Or even General Discussion? A moderator had already explained to me what was supposed to be in General Discussion and it seem pretty inflexible to allow any other topics there.

    Maybe reshuffle the categories so that people can find the pressing topics at the top of the page instead of seeing 27 pages of discussion on why Sith meta is going to rock February? -.-

  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    First, reporting is always optional. Nobody is forcing people to report bugs. But nice attempt at diversion.

    Further, conversation about bugs isn't possible in the current system because any threads that refer to bugs get closed almost immediately. (That's not a slight against the mods. You guys are just doing what you're told.) But as a player, I believe the conversation is the most important part.

    And yes, I'm hoping @CG_Kozispoon is reading this thread and will chime in. She said we are welcome to ask for things. ... I'm asking. But, however this conversation goes, I hope it stays out of DM's for the sake of open communication and transparency between CG and the player base.

    by directing all conversation to EA Help, any conversation there is seen as a report. thats the point, not trying to divert anything with what i was saying. The conversation is absolutely important and by having it there it shows the powers that be, that an issue is a hot button topic and may warrant a higher priority. When you split the reporting process and the conversation, everyone commenting on the conversation will then think that they are being ignored, because EA may have only seen a fraction of the reports they could have and it may not get the priority it deserves.

    By communicating with her directly, you will have a better chance of your comments going exactly where they need to go, but that is your choice.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    +1 to AnnerDoon and I will just add that I am bemused about the constant shifting and closing of threads to "appropriate categories."

    Feedback feels like the graveyard for all suggestions, good or bad. And the Bugs and Issues thread is at the bottom of the webpage. If you want to highlight that there is a current problem in the game, shouldn't it be at the top to bring it to immediate attention?

    Or even General Discussion? A moderator had already explained to me what was supposed to be in General Discussion and it seem pretty inflexible to allow any other topics there.

    Maybe reshuffle the categories so that people can find the pressing topics at the top of the page instead of seeing 27 pages of discussion on why Sith meta is going to rock February? -.-

    have you tried using the "Discussions Tab"? (best way to find trending topics)

    We are also working off of the feedback we are given and trying new things. it is a slow process and we dont rush to change things. We also have to start from the direction we are given, we can't just ignore that and go out of left field because someone doesn't like the new way.

    There is also the search feature that many people ignore. (best way to find what you are looking for or want to comment about)

  • Rename "Recent Discussions” to "General Discussion" and create a "Topic" selector when trying to create a new post to the new "General Discussion". New posts are automatically posted to the topic sub-forum selected and show up where the OP thought they were posting it, i.e. "General Discussion".

    You're trying to retrain a community of potentially over a million people to use this forum in a way that is unlike most other game forums. Instead, you should be looking at ways to get the developers what they want that are transparent to the user base. Someone coming here for the first time does not know the "rules" and will most likely not read a sticky post on how to use this forum, either.

    As for taking things slow, the push to immediately move and close posts that don't conform to the new idea of how people should use the forum was pretty abrupt with little or no explanation or announcement beforehand, not that it would have been read anyway.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    As for taking things slow, the push to immediately move and close posts that don't conform to the new idea of how people should use the forum was pretty abrupt with little or no explanation or announcement beforehand, not that it would have been read anyway.

    Would you clarify?

    if you are talking about bugs and issues, every post that is closed gets a message as to why it was closed and moved and where to go to correctly submit the issue to the correct people.

    There is also a sticky in Bugs and Issues explaining this again.

    I'm not sure what you are referring to @FiddleMaster
  • @Kyno It was a general statement to the forums as a whole. For bugs and issues, one day, new posts just started getting closed and moved, without the opportunity for discussion on these forums. I would guess, most people don't want to navigate two different forums with completely different structures to discuss or raise issues for a single game, regardless of how much the developers would like them to.

    To propose a solution, since it is possible to manually link forum posts here to the EA help forum, there should also be a way to automate the process, with an invisible flag or something available to the moderators. We do it in my line of work all the time. The post remains open here, gets posted to the EA help forum, and new posts to the topic here are automatically cloned to EA help, and vise versa. Would it require a bit more development, yes, but in the end, the developers get what they want and the users are happy because the change was transparent to them.

    By forcing people to post bugs to a forum that they may not know or like, I'd imagine you lose out on some potential technical feedback. I know that I hate the EA help forum so I just won't use it and I know that I'm not alone.
  • This is an issue I wholeheartedly agree with.

    Communication is crucial. This forum sees a lot of traffic. It doesn't make sense to close threads and ask the bugs to be moved to ea help before any kind of discussion happens. Both can and do actually happen (@Kyno you know what I'm talking about already)

    My issue is that some bugs get reported and they aren't even bugs. This is a waste of resources from actual legitimate bugs. The forum is a valuable resource for players to explain why a bug is actually just a player error and the forum is also an avenue for player crowdsourcing to test that a bug is in fact an actual bug so that resources aren't wasted on non-issues.

    Please consider allowing bug threads to exist here. Instead of telling us we won't actually submit it here and at ea help, give us the benefit of the doubt. If we care enough to find a bug, we care enough to post it to both places.

    Thank you.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Kyno It was a general statement to the forums as a whole. For bugs and issues, one day, new posts just started getting closed and moved, without the opportunity for discussion on these forums. I would guess, most people don't want to navigate two different forums with completely different structures to discuss or raise issues for a single game, regardless of how much the developers would like them to.

    To propose a solution, since it is possible to manually link forum posts here to the EA help forum, there should also be a way to automate the process, with an invisible flag or something available to the moderators. We do it in my line of work all the time. The post remains open here, gets posted to the EA help forum, and new posts to the topic here are automatically cloned to EA help, and vise versa. Would it require a bit more development, yes, but in the end, the developers get what they want and the users are happy because the change was transparent to them.

    By forcing people to post bugs to a forum that they may not know or like, I'd imagine you lose out on some potential technical feedback. I know that I hate the EA help forum so I just won't use it and I know that I'm not alone.

    On a whole, we do not close threads. so again, a little clarity would be nice.

    The move to EA Help is done, and we are working from there. But we cannot go back, so that is our starting point now and we are working to make it better. Please go back and read my other comments. posting there allows for better tracking and other things that help them prioritize these issues. Any conversation that happens here can happen there with no issue.

    We are starting now to leave a link in GD (we are just trying this out right now) to the post in Archive to then lead people to be able to read what has been posted here and then direct them to the bug post so they can "me too" or post more details, again, helping clarify the issue or show its extent.

    People not liking the place to post Bugs and Issues, is not something we can avoid, and giving them somewhere to post that isn't tracked as easily doesn't help the issue get the attention it deserves.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Nebulous wrote: »
    This is an issue I wholeheartedly agree with.

    Communication is crucial. This forum sees a lot of traffic. It doesn't make sense to close threads and ask the bugs to be moved to ea help before any kind of discussion happens. Both can and do actually happen (@Kyno you know what I'm talking about already)

    My issue is that some bugs get reported and they aren't even bugs. This is a waste of resources from actual legitimate bugs. The forum is a valuable resource for players to explain why a bug is actually just a player error and the forum is also an avenue for player crowdsourcing to test that a bug is in fact an actual bug so that resources aren't wasted on non-issues.

    Please consider allowing bug threads to exist here. Instead of telling us we won't actually submit it here and at ea help, give us the benefit of the doubt. If we care enough to find a bug, we care enough to post it to both places.

    Thank you.

    The discussion can happen there and we are trying to keep bugs more visible as we move forward. The discussion happening there helps highlight allow for better prioritization of bigger issues.

    The mod team is all players and we are fairly good at telling the difference between a real bug or an issue that we know has a reasonable solution. If a bug gets over to EA Help and its not a bug people would either explain it there or no comment which would not prioritize the issue. Or the people at EA Help will know its not an issue and not waste resources.

    The immediate move to EA Help is the direction we are given, and as i stated earlier is something that is best discussed with Kozi in a DM to make sure all the sentiments are getting where they need to go. Highlighting the issue means more than just finding it, and there in lies the problem. if only the person who finds it and a handful post at EA Help we are lowing the prioritization because its not being talked about there.

    I understand people may not like this, but this is where we are at. We are hoping to get more feedback and break this open a little, but as a player myself who has reported bugs and issues at that site before this game was a thing. I have no issue going there to make sure things can get done the way the company running the game wants to get things done. If they think this will help, I'm willing to give it a shot. but thats just me.
  • Kyno, I don't think you're getting it. You say that "on a whole, we don't close threads", which (in the context of this thread), is absolutely false. We're talking about bug threads here, and those are closed constantly.

    There also seems to be a disconnect regarding your insistence that discussion of bugs can happen best on the EA Help site because they have tracking available. Have you tried to have any kind of discussion there? As good as that site may be for tracking, it simply isn't conducive to discussion. Try it. See for yourself.

    Let me say this... the wholesale closing of bug threads on the official SWGOH forum absolutely stifles discussion here, and is a clear indication to the player base that such discussion isn't wanted and won't be tolerated. That's not a good thing. Not at all.

    I've offered a possible solution to this issue and you've wholly rejected it based on your demand that all bug posts get closed and moved to a site that's set up for bug tracking and not set up for actual discussion. I get it. You're doing what you've been told to do. It just isn't having the effect you may think it's having.

    So, I'll ask again... For the good of the community, can bug threads please remain open for discussion on this forum?
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    Kyno, I don't think you're getting it. You say that "on a whole, we don't close threads", which (in the context of this thread), is absolutely false. We're talking about bug threads here, and those are closed constantly.

    The statement was closed with no information and dont conform to the new way of doing things.this is what i was referring to and this is not true. there is literally one instance where we are directed to close and move threads, but they get a clear message of how to proceed and why they were closed.
    AnnerDoon wrote: »

    There also seems to be a disconnect regarding your insistence that discussion of bugs can happen best on the EA Help site because they have tracking available. Have you tried to have any kind of discussion there? As good as that site may be for tracking, it simply isn't conducive to discussion. Try it. See for yourself.

    Let me say this... the wholesale closing of bug threads on the official SWGOH forum absolutely stifles discussion here, and is a clear indication to the player base that such discussion isn't wanted and won't be tolerated. That's not a good thing. Not at all.

    I have, it is the same as posting here, as it is there. no difference. yes starting a post may take a little more effort. clicking "me too" is pretty simple also.

    As i said we are trying some new things to make things more visible, but anyone looking for an issue or bug would again see a clear message as to why it was closed and they are directed to where it is. but the link for a bug being posted in GD is sending a pretty clear message that they do want things to be seen and posted on, just in the proper location. People assume nefarious plans, that are just not there.
    AnnerDoon wrote: »

    I've offered a possible solution to this issue and you've wholly rejected it based on your demand that all bug posts get closed and moved to a site that's set up for bug tracking and not set up for actual discussion. I get it. You're doing what you've been told to do. It just isn't having the effect you may think it's having.

    So, I'll ask again... For the good of the community, can bug threads please remain open for discussion on this forum?

    I am not rejecting anything, I am stating that I am not in control of this and I am directing you to have a conversation with the person who is. but the volunteer mods cannot wholly disregard the direction we are given and change things. I think that working towards a common goal that satisfies both the direction given and helps the community should be our goal. Just "going back to the way things were" is not a solution. Having conversations here reducing the posts at EA Help doesn't seem like a good solution for the community either.

    You seem to be dismissing the fact that your suggestion would result in the possibility of slowing down fixes and result in the community feeling more ignored than they already do.
  • Ok. We disagree. But you've made your point. I'll wait for @CG_Kozispoon to respond.
This discussion has been closed.