Let's talk about shard cooperation

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  • You'll never convince a F2P or semi-F2P player currently benefiting from the system that there is a problem, they rely on those ~500 crystals a day to enjoy the game. They are able to gear characters more quickly, flex to new metas more quickly, farm new shipment toons more quickly, etc., all without spending anything or much more than a dime.

    Personally, I'd like to see the reward tiers and amounts spread out. If there's only something like a 25 crystal difference between 1st and 10th place, the benefit of cooperating or locking others out decreases significantly.

    Right now PvP is about the crystals, not the PvP.



  • leef
    13458 posts Member

    Right now PvP is about the crystals, not the PvP.



    That's just because this game requires zero skill, just resourcemanagement. It's mainly about your team/roster, if those are somewhat equal there isn't a way to be "better" than the other. Well, being online at pay-out works, but i wouldn't call that "being better". End of the day it's all PvE and not a measurment of skill at all.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Darthpedro wrote: »
    cuyler41 wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Blizzisme wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Side note, there are quite a few sports out there that this general tactic is used and it is the norm. So to say it was not intended may not really be the case. It actually could have been an expected outcome and seen as too difficult to prevent.

    @Kyno Awesome... Could you name a couple??

    Pretty much any racing sport. Distance running, bicycling, car racing, marathon canoeing, etc. Everyone is competing for first place and there can be a lot of cooperation along the way. It's also not unheard of for the winner (usually of a stage, not the entire race) to be determined at some point during the race before the finish line is crossed.

    This is why nobody in North America watches bicycle racing, rofl.

    Nope but they watch Nascar and it happens there too

    You do, of course, realize that there is a portion of North America that exists between Canada and the Mason Dixon Line, right?

    I'm sceptical, source? =D
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • To address some of the replies I got so far:

    1. It's true that for f2p or low spenders like me, arena is about nothing but crystals. I guess some people may care about bragging rights too but honestly, ever since legendaries went to panic farms I care about nothing but crystals. For me being able to get 3 cantina refreshes a day is everything. The sooner i can finish my veteran the sooner i can save some crystals.

    2. Having 2 accounts made only a week apart and with 1 hour payout difference, I decided to join my arena shard chat on my one account just to see the difference. Let me start by saying that by my experience so far the account with the "cooperation" takes more time but has a better chance to finish higher. Prior to joining them I would finish a little lower on average than my other account. After joining I can finish a little higher at the expense of spending more time to coordinate. My other account gets sniped and pushed back alot more lately and I know that I'm being a target. Recently it's been hard to keep up with these folks as keep getting picked up back to back to back and it forces me to spend crystals to fight them.

    Therefore I would say that it's definitely more difficult for those who don't cooperate.

    3. I certainly think we need a new system of payouts, one that isn't so time dependent and one that favours skill over cooperation. Unfortunately giving everyone rewards based on highest rank achieved would mean that there would be alot more crystals given out and the devs would never do that.

    4. The fact that players have to cooperate on that level in order to maximize payouts shows that the system is a in a way flawed. I personally agree with those who suggested a more gradual scaling in rewards. This way finishing 10th and finishing 1st wouldn't be so big that it would be worth all the stress.

    I've heard the arguement that "you need to incentivise players to move up" but I seriously don't think that this applies here. The co-operation shows that arena is more of a casual mode where all players basically only care about getting the crystals more than just beating the other guys for bragging rights. And those who care about bragging rights more than crystals are gonna go for 1st regardless of payout rewards.

    I think the scaling is too steep within the top 10. The best thing do is to decrease the scaling as mentioned before so that the difference between 10th and 1st is 100 crystals. This way eveyone in the top 10 is satisfied and there isn't that much sniping within the top 10.
  • You'll never convince a F2P or semi-F2P player currently benefiting from the system that there is a problem

    Yeah, I know. People using it are biased for it, and people who don't use it are biased against it. If I was raking in 500 a day from Arena, it'd be hard for me to consider possibly losing that, as well. So I get why people like the way things stand now. I just don't think it's particularly fair. The upper end of every Arena shard basically has this Cool Kids Club that you have to be a part of, or you can't possibly advance. Or at least, that's how it seems to folks who aren't in the club. Now, maybe it's not particularly hard to get into the Cool Club, generally speaking... but it's an extra step I'd personally rather not have to take. Namely because I don't like the idea of basically sniping some dude with a possibly superior team just because he's trying to climb rank outside of the Cool Kids Club collusion.
    B0untryHR7 wrote: »
    To address some of the replies I got so far:

    Nice post here, and probably the most honest I've seen on the topic to date.

    This line in particular:
    B0untryHR7 wrote: »
    4. The fact that players have to cooperate on that level in order to maximize payouts shows that the system is a in a way flawed.

    I can't think of a great way to fix it. People say the devs would never allow the Crystal flood in the market, and that's probably true. Sad, but true.

    I think the devs just really need to ask themselves, what do they want Arena to be. Do they want it to be more about the competition, or more about the Crystals. How they answer that question probably steers how Arena rewards should be divvied.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    It can't be about the competation because there's no skill involved.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Two things:

    First, for a long time, about a year give or take a month, my arena shard had little to no communication. Very quickly I had figured out who I was working against for my payout and most of the other players’ payouts. For a good part of that year it was a blood bath. I would be sniping, refreshing constantly, timing the matches as best I could and so on. Every little trick I could learn to make my payout I would. Anybody who attacked me in my payout when I knew it wasn’t their payout I would attack back tenfold. One guy would always start his climb early and would attack me every now and again when I was trying to make a go for first. His payout was after mine so for the next week or so I made sure he didn’t get top five. He never hit me in my payout again.

    I wasn’t the only one playing like this in my shard either. There were plenty of other people with the same or similar attitude. There were no less than 8 people just for my payout like this. All 8 going for the same payout along with a few high end players in the next payout and a kraken from an Asian payout who liked to stay in the top 10. All of that made for a crazy arena. All because we all wanted to be at the very least in the top 10.

    Some of those players are gone now. Quite a few of them just couldn’t keep up with one thing or another. Maybe it was the pressure of always having to have your phone glued to your hand for that hour for no better reason than to watch who is moving, who is moving you, and timing your attacks just right. Maybe shard collusion is allowed so that burnout is lessened and those high end players keep shelling out money. Because I know if I had to play like that for a second year I probably wouldn’t still be here.

    Second (that first one was way longer than intended), I’ve met some really great people just by reaching out and saying hello. Some of those people I competed against for that year I’ve built some pretty good relationships with. Three of us are in the same guild together. By the way, being in the same guild is a good reason to have a shard chat as well. Are we the cool kids? I’ve always been a cool kid, so yes. Seriously, though, there’s not much competition in our shard anymore. There’s one lone guy who didn’t want to join and that’s cool. But we haven’t outright excluded someone. At least I haven’t.
  • 500 crystals a day is worth cheating the system
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
  • 500 crystals a day is worth cheating the system

    Ain't 500 crystals anymore if you're sharing payouts.
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    500 crystals a day is worth cheating the system

    Ain't 500 crystals anymore if you're sharing payouts.

    Unless you're the only one in your timezone at payout ;)
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    500 crystals a day is worth cheating the system

    Ain't 500 crystals anymore if you're sharing payouts.

    Unless you're the only one in your timezone at payout ;)

    So you're alone in your time zone and you still need cooperation to get number 1? :p
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    Huatimus wrote: »
    500 crystals a day is worth cheating the system

    Ain't 500 crystals anymore if you're sharing payouts.

    Unless you're the only one in your timezone at payout ;)

    So you're alone in your time zone and you still need cooperation to get number 1? :p

    Not alone in the shard at my timezone, just the only one in the discord with that timezone. So there is competition but I have the edge.
    Need cooperation to keep from dropping out of top 20, and keep from getting timed out during my payout yes. With chat I get attacked much less often, and never during climb. Wasn't the case before it!
    And also they help bring someone down in rank if I have trouble with them , and I do the same during their climb with leftover attacks.
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
  • TVF
    36524 posts Member
    It's not "cheating the system" if the system allows for it.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    It's not "cheating the system" if the system allows for it.
    I meant the arena system wasn't set up that way, not that it's cheating CG
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
  • TVF
    36524 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Ah gotcha.

    Anyway, I agree completely with you about the benefits. Best thing I ever did in this game.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
    If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.

    All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

    This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

    Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.
  • Actionhunk wrote: »
    Well the Arena shard I am in has 10 players in my po and they organize on attacking before p.o.
    If am am rank1 30 minutes before p.o. I will be attacked non-stop and not be able to attack even if I spend all my time the last 30 minutes resfreshing and hitting enter.

    All players in the shard chat coordinate on keeping out of top 20. This specific shard chat has 28+ members.

    This is organized to a degree that makes the game rather lame. What is the purpose of an arena if it serves to simply give the same crystal mafia a high crystal reward so they can retain a favorable position and not spend too much money in the game.

    Make it equal for all. rotate/shuffle shards every 3 months.

    So i will get shoved down 100s of places just because it put in effort into getting a good team? No thanks.

    Imagine a whale. Spent hundred dollars getting RJT in time. Makes it to top 50 or arena. One day, wakes up and finds he s now 500 in a shard chock full of RJT teams.
  • Our shard chat would never exclude anyone who seeks us out, there may be times we've been able to contact players and haven't because they share payouts.
  • Our shard chat would never exclude anyone who seeks us out, there may be times we've been able to contact players and haven't because they share payouts.

    A lot don't let in more than 5-10 per po. They want to secure top spots. It would basically be pointless to have a chat if there were 20 players taking turns for first.
  • If you're not in the chat and they won't let you in, cause a problem for them. Eventually they'll come around that it's better for everyone involved to let you in the chat and share in the rewards. If you're constantly getting up there and causing their chat members to fight you back, and they start asking each other why are they not in the chat, then consensus will usually change to allow you in.

    I'm in 4 separate shard chats. While their politics is different in each one, what they all have in common is not wanting to deal with people who break up the routine. So break up their routine as much as you can, while at the same time asking to be in.
  • And while breaking up the routine learn who your payout members are and don't interrupt their climbing. If you show you're willing to work with the system, even while not being allowed to be in it, but that you'll be a continued threat, it only helps your cause.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Meerava wrote: »
    And while breaking up the routine learn who your payout members are and don't interrupt their climbing. If you show you're willing to work with the system, even while not being allowed to be in it, but that you'll be a continued threat, it only helps your cause.

    You aren’t breaking up their routine if you don’t interrupt their climbing. You can try to get in by playing nice or by making yourself a pain, but you can’t really do both.
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