Sith Raid T6: Good, but not perfect (yet)

First_but_66_Order
1014 posts Member
edited March 2018
So, I am in a 90mil guild and we started a Normal Sith raid.
Currently we are stuck in p1, and discussed how we feel about it.
Let's begin with the positives

Nihilus basic:
This is what makes Nihilus a really formidable foe. I really like that he can get behind protection, that is what makes Healers relevant again.

Annihilate
It is Nihilus after all... It is really good to have it, one needs to always watch its cooldown and time unbreakable will well.

Special abilities
These new abilities make the raid fresh and new and probably prevent an auto solo for long time.

Protection
Some might disagree, but I love the protection mechanic for Nihilus. Again, a fresh experience, and room for new strategies.

Negatives:
Cooldowns
The cooldown manipulation itself is a really good mechanic, but with the Fearsome Foe it is completely broken.
I would suggest to increase the cooldown on both Drain Force and Annihilate to 200%(double) for tier 6 and to 150%(1.5x) for the Heroic.

Speed
Well, I am sorry to say, but I hate the second unique "The Darkness In Which All life dies"
The problem, that I want to deal damage, so I need to hit. Normally it triggers the "Fearsome Foe" which is a great mechanic for the Raid bosses to be constant threat.
But, whenever I hit Nihilus, "Fearsome Foe" stacks with the unique "The Darkness"
The insane speed bonus wouldnt be an issue, but it also adds up his tenacity and makes him practically immune to TM manipulation.
This equals in the end, that there is no team, which could work. Not even the new marquees.
Marouder cant get any bonuses, Nihilus removes all buffs and cant be debuffed.
Visas Marr, well she assists which is really contraproductive, it only speeds up the process.
Darth Sion Cant inflict Pain. That is it, since he relies on pain so much.

Nor the old heroes can do anything
CLS The additional potency is nice. I was able to remove TM 1/6 and one I could inflict a ability block.
Vader His TM removal cant be resisted, so he could even work. The problem that he is a deadweight without the dots.
Thrawn The Fracture didnt have that much effect. Mainly, because every time he Fractures, he gives +120(!) bonus speed to Nihilus. The protection recovery is utterly useless.
Wampa is also useless. His protection wont save him from quick death.

So, my suggestion is to reduce the bonuses on "The darkness" I would say +10 speed or maybe change it to a percentage based chance to gain these buffs. "Whenever Nihilus is damaged he has 50% chance to gain +x speed and +x% tenacity" I still think 30 speed and 50% tenacity is way too much. A single Fracture means +120 speed and +200% tenacity.

Unbreakable Will
This special ability is really cool. There is only a minor problem with it.
It keeps the toon alive as long as they have it, but when it expires the toon usually dies right away.
To resolve this, please add to the Healer's buff sth like "Whenever an Unbreakable will expires, Healers gain 100% TM" and maybe "Reset all cooldown on all healing abilities" as well.


Overall, I think the new things make it really intresting. I am aware that the difficulty adresses the fact that Darth Traya is so overpowered.
However, I would really appreciate if I could try the 2nd phase as well in reasonable time.
It should be hard, but it is too hard right now.
(in numbers, in tier6 the avarage participation needed is more than 11mil dmg/player. Currently it is impossible. On tier 6, I cant imagine what is it like on Heroic, when Nihilus has 3 turns in a row (technically 2.5 turns on avarage, but it is practically the same). So, please look into this or give us toons or hints which are useful for p1. Vicas Marr is good overall, but doesn't really helpful in p1).

Thanks in advance.
The Order no.66 (which was the first).

Replies

  • Options
    I agree with pretty much everything you discussed here. As far as the mechanics are concerned, I mostly like the idea of a raid that requires you to be proactive as well as prevents the usual strategies for beating the other raids. I don't even mind the removal of the escape mechanic. However, what seems to be an issue is the addition of all that AND the bosses having such a colossal amount of health. For guilds with a full 50 players that are active, that's less of a problem. But for those of us that have more... middling guilds like myself, I'm honestly not sure if I'll ever get a chance at beating the heroic version. I guess I could change guilds to one that's got better participation and stricter joining requirements, but I like my group and I've been with them since guilds were introduced, so that's not a particularly appealing prospect.
  • Options
    I agree with pretty much everything you discussed here. As far as the mechanics are concerned, I mostly like the idea of a raid that requires you to be proactive as well as prevents the usual strategies for beating the other raids. I don't even mind the removal of the escape mechanic. However, what seems to be an issue is the addition of all that AND the bosses having such a colossal amount of health. For guilds with a full 50 players that are active, that's less of a problem. But for those of us that have more... middling guilds like myself, I'm honestly not sure if I'll ever get a chance at beating the heroic version. I guess I could change guilds to one that's got better participation and stricter joining requirements, but I like my group and I've been with them since guilds were introduced, so that's not a particularly appealing prospect.

    This is another problem. The raids and TBs generally cause a phenomenon, which affects the middle class guilds pretty badly.
    However, there is no much what can be done, this is a game, and competition in a game is good to have.
    However some guild balancing mechanichs (similar to the one we have in Territory Wars) would be nice in the raids as well (like the quantity of needed tokens for opening a raid is determined (or just affected) by the size of the guild). It is not that big deal on the short term, but these kind of things would make the newbys catch up easier.
    The more burning issue is the huge inflation of the Crystal and some gear pieces.
  • Brioli
    21 posts Member
    Options
    Agree the mechanics are fun and refreshing. Too bad I'm a new player only 4 months in and pulling my weight in tier 6 outside the one useable team I have is probably a year or $30,000 away.
  • Options
    We just got smoked in T5. Honestly, the Tenacity and speed burst of Nihilus is utter madness. And as it was mentioned, he alone has the health of te hAAT tank.

    I dread to imagine having to fight 6 hAAt worth of health enemies with nasty mechanics under a 2 day time limit, with no Escape...

    It seems we need toons that self-heal without assist and too many buffs/debuffs, deal massive damage consistently and have a large enough health pool to survive double attacks. Maybe I am forgetting something but not a single one can pop into my mind riight now.
  • Options
    We just got smoked in T5. Honestly, the Tenacity and speed burst of Nihilus is utter madness. And as it was mentioned, he alone has the health of te hAAT tank.

    I dread to imagine having to fight 6 hAAt worth of health enemies with nasty mechanics under a 2 day time limit, with no Escape...

    It seems we need toons that self-heal without assist and too many buffs/debuffs, deal massive damage consistently and have a large enough health pool to survive double attacks. Maybe I am forgetting something but not a single one can pop into my mind riight now.

    CLS rework?? :grimace:
    He could use a zeta on his basic...
  • Mano
    109 posts Member
    Options
    CLS rework?? :grimace:
    He could use a zeta on his basic... [/quote]

    ROFL..Dont Give them Ideas
  • Options
    So, I am in a 90mil guild and we started a Normal Sith raid.
    Currently we are stuck in p1, and discussed how we feel about it.
    Let's begin with the positives

    Nihilus basic:
    This is what makes Nihilus a really formidable foe. I really like that he can get behind protection, that is what makes Healers relevant again.

    Annihilate
    It is Nihilus after all... It is really good to have it, one needs to always watch its cooldown and time unbreakable will well.

    Special abilities
    These new abilities make the raid fresh and new and probably prevent an auto solo for long time.

    Protection
    Some might disagree, but I love the protection mechanic for Nihilus. Again, a fresh experience, and room for new strategies.

    Negatives:
    Cooldowns
    The cooldown manipulation itself is a really good mechanic, but with the Fearsome Foe it is completely broken.
    I would suggest to increase the cooldown on both Drain Force and Annihilate to 200%(double) for tier 6 and to 150%(1.5x) for the Heroic.

    Speed
    Well, I am sorry to say, but I hate the second unique "The Darkness In Which All life dies"
    The problem, that I want to deal damage, so I need to hit. Normally it triggers the "Fearsome Foe" which is a great mechanic for the Raid bosses to be constant threat.
    But, whenever I hit Nihilus, "Fearsome Foe" stacks with the unique "The Darkness"
    The insane speed bonus wouldnt be an issue, but it also adds up his tenacity and makes him practically immune to TM manipulation.
    This equals in the end, that there is no team, which could work. Not even the new marquees.
    Marouder cant get any bonuses, Nihilus removes all buffs and cant be debuffed.
    Visas Marr, well she assists which is really contraproductive, it only speeds up the process.
    Darth Sion Cant inflict Pain. That is it, since he relies on pain so much.

    Nor the old heroes can do anything
    CLS The additional potency is nice. I was able to remove TM 1/6 and one I could inflict a ability block.
    Vader His TM removal cant be resisted, so he could even work. The problem that he is a deadweight without the dots.
    Thrawn The Fracture didnt have that much effect. Mainly, because every time he Fractures, he gives +120(!) bonus speed to Nihilus. The protection recovery is utterly useless.
    Wampa is also useless. His protection wont save him from quick death.

    So, my suggestion is to reduce the bonuses on "The darkness" I would say +10 speed or maybe change it to a percentage based chance to gain these buffs. "Whenever Nihilus is damaged he has 50% chance to gain +x speed and +x% tenacity" I still think 30 speed and 50% tenacity is way too much. A single Fracture means +120 speed and +200% tenacity.

    Unbreakable Will
    This special ability is really cool. There is only a minor problem with it.
    It keeps the toon alive as long as they have it, but when it expires the toon usually dies right away.
    To resolve this, please add to the Healer's buff sth like "Whenever an Unbreakable will expires, Healers gain 100% TM" and maybe "Reset all cooldown on all healing abilities" as well.


    Overall, I think the new things make it really intresting. I am aware that the difficulty adresses the fact that Darth Traya is so overpowered.
    However, I would really appreciate if I could try the 2nd phase as well in reasonable time.
    It should be hard, but it is too hard right now.
    (in numbers, in tier6 the avarage participation needed is more than 11mil dmg/player. Currently it is impossible. On tier 6, I cant imagine what is it like on Heroic, when Nihilus has 3 turns in a row (technically 2.5 turns on avarage, but it is practically the same). So, please look into this or give us toons or hints which are useful for p1. Vicas Marr is good overall, but doesn't really helpful in p1).

    Thanks in advance.
    The Order no.66 (which was the first).

    This is a very deep and correct analysis.
  • Options
    We just got smoked in T5. Honestly, the Tenacity and speed burst of Nihilus is utter madness. And as it was mentioned, he alone has the health of te hAAT tank.

    I dread to imagine having to fight 6 hAAt worth of health enemies with nasty mechanics under a 2 day time limit, with no Escape...

    It seems we need toons that self-heal without assist and too many buffs/debuffs, deal massive damage consistently and have a large enough health pool to survive double attacks. Maybe I am forgetting something but not a single one can pop into my mind riight now.

    Lol he alone has the health of 3 HAAT tanks
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Options
    Unbreakable Will definitely needs rethinking, especially in p4 where there's additional attackers.

    With DN having crazy speed he often uses annihilate and then drain force immediately, giving healers no chance to recover the sitting duck on almost zero health. Unbreakable Will is a minor stall at this point rather than anything of genuine strategic use.

    I agree it's a cool ability though, but its usefulness is often negated by DN's kit, the speed overkill especially.

    As for tenacity, they're all immune to so many debuffs as it is, loading tenacity just seems like flogging a dead horse. Might as well just make them immune to all debuffs.
  • Options
    this raid was not designed to be solo'd by any player
    I hope we get a health pool nerf but I doubt it
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Options
    Nobody is asking to single solo it. Not sure why that's relevant in a thread of otherwise reasonable feedback.

    It will get tuned down. I don't doubt it. However they're going to gather data first to find the spot where it needs to be tuned to.
  • Options
    Lekrom1982 wrote: »
    this raid was not designed to be solo'd by any player
    I hope we get a health pool nerf but I doubt it

    I am ok with the health pool. That what makes it a guild challenge. I dont like soloing the raids
  • Options
    Ok.
    We finally finished the p1.
    P2 seems to be more balanced.
    I am still not sure how the Pain system works.
    @CG_RyDiggs can we get a clarification what the exact numbers are for the damage boost?
    And please give us the nubers for the normal Sion's pain as well. It would be great to know how much the bonus damage is exactly.
    Great job with the second phase, it is really enjoyable. The stacking tenacity is a bit to much, I would change it to 25% from 50%, at least for the non-heroic tiers.

    ps. Is Sion immune to Sabine's armor shred as well?
  • Options
    Ok.
    We finally finished the p1.
    P2 seems to be more balanced.
    I am still not sure how the Pain system works.
    @CG_RyDiggs can we get a clarification what the exact numbers are for the damage boost?
    And please give us the nubers for the normal Sion's pain as well. It would be great to know how much the bonus damage is exactly.
    Great job with the second phase, it is really enjoyable. The stacking tenacity is a bit to much, I would change it to 25% from 50%, at least for the non-heroic tiers.

    ps. Is Sion immune to Sabine's armor shred as well?

    Why dont you read the details, damnit! literally scroll down.
  • Options
    So, I am in a 90mil guild and we started a Normal Sith raid.
    Currently we are stuck in p1, and discussed how we feel about it.
    Let's begin with the positives

    Nihilus basic:
    This is what makes Nihilus a really formidable foe. I really like that he can get behind protection, that is what makes Healers relevant again.

    Annihilate
    It is Nihilus after all... It is really good to have it, one needs to always watch its cooldown and time unbreakable will well.

    Special abilities
    These new abilities make the raid fresh and new and probably prevent an auto solo for long time.

    Protection
    Some might disagree, but I love the protection mechanic for Nihilus. Again, a fresh experience, and room for new strategies.

    Negatives:
    Cooldowns
    The cooldown manipulation itself is a really good mechanic, but with the Fearsome Foe it is completely broken.
    I would suggest to increase the cooldown on both Drain Force and Annihilate to 200%(double) for tier 6 and to 150%(1.5x) for the Heroic.

    Speed
    Well, I am sorry to say, but I hate the second unique "The Darkness In Which All life dies"
    The problem, that I want to deal damage, so I need to hit. Normally it triggers the "Fearsome Foe" which is a great mechanic for the Raid bosses to be constant threat.
    But, whenever I hit Nihilus, "Fearsome Foe" stacks with the unique "The Darkness"
    The insane speed bonus wouldnt be an issue, but it also adds up his tenacity and makes him practically immune to TM manipulation.
    This equals in the end, that there is no team, which could work. Not even the new marquees.
    Marouder cant get any bonuses, Nihilus removes all buffs and cant be debuffed.
    Visas Marr, well she assists which is really contraproductive, it only speeds up the process.
    Darth Sion Cant inflict Pain. That is it, since he relies on pain so much.

    Nor the old heroes can do anything
    CLS The additional potency is nice. I was able to remove TM 1/6 and one I could inflict a ability block.
    Vader His TM removal cant be resisted, so he could even work. The problem that he is a deadweight without the dots.
    Thrawn The Fracture didnt have that much effect. Mainly, because every time he Fractures, he gives +120(!) bonus speed to Nihilus. The protection recovery is utterly useless.
    Wampa is also useless. His protection wont save him from quick death.

    So, my suggestion is to reduce the bonuses on "The darkness" I would say +10 speed or maybe change it to a percentage based chance to gain these buffs. "Whenever Nihilus is damaged he has 50% chance to gain +x speed and +x% tenacity" I still think 30 speed and 50% tenacity is way too much. A single Fracture means +120 speed and +200% tenacity.

    Unbreakable Will
    This special ability is really cool. There is only a minor problem with it.
    It keeps the toon alive as long as they have it, but when it expires the toon usually dies right away.
    To resolve this, please add to the Healer's buff sth like "Whenever an Unbreakable will expires, Healers gain 100% TM" and maybe "Reset all cooldown on all healing abilities" as well.


    Overall, I think the new things make it really intresting. I am aware that the difficulty adresses the fact that Darth Traya is so overpowered.
    However, I would really appreciate if I could try the 2nd phase as well in reasonable time.
    It should be hard, but it is too hard right now.
    (in numbers, in tier6 the avarage participation needed is more than 11mil dmg/player. Currently it is impossible. On tier 6, I cant imagine what is it like on Heroic, when Nihilus has 3 turns in a row (technically 2.5 turns on avarage, but it is practically the same). So, please look into this or give us toons or hints which are useful for p1. Vicas Marr is good overall, but doesn't really helpful in p1).

    Thanks in advance.
    The Order no.66 (which was the first).

    I d ratger have cooldowns increased by 1 universally, all tiers.

    The speed thing is kinda the point to prevent any solos. you do realise that, right. I ma ctually doing fine with the 30 speed per hit thing.

    CLS cant inflict ability block.

    The idea behind unbreabke will is to place it either on a self healing tank, a passive recovery character, or a healer itself. Its called strategy, which is something you might want to do. I ve heard great things about it. Shore, KRU, zFOTP under KRU lead, FOST under KRU lead, Luminara, etc etc.
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Options
    I can't figure out DN/Unbreakable Will to save myself.

    Attempt 1: DN cooldown at 2, decide to leave it one extra turn. Except he goes twive in a row. Dead and reset.

    Attempt 2: Put Unbreakable Will on with 2 to go. DN just goes through his normal turn and it's gone by the time he annihilates. Dead and reset.

    Attempt 3: Yes, got it. Annihilate and nobody dead. Oh wait, he gets to take another go, force drain, cooldowns added to all healers. Unbreakable Will off, attacked. Sigh...dead and reset.

    Attempt 4: This ones my favourite. Timed it right. Unbreakable Will is on, it's DN's turn to use aannndd.....he doesn't use it. Normal attack, Unbreakable Will off, annihilare. Dead and reset.

    Too much of a chore for my liking. I'll just enjoy the other 3 phases and come back to DN after a couple of weeks when people have it more figured out.
  • Options
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Ok.
    We finally finished the p1.
    P2 seems to be more balanced.
    I am still not sure how the Pain system works.
    @CG_RyDiggs can we get a clarification what the exact numbers are for the damage boost?
    And please give us the nubers for the normal Sion's pain as well. It would be great to know how much the bonus damage is exactly.
    Great job with the second phase, it is really enjoyable. The stacking tenacity is a bit to much, I would change it to 25% from 50%, at least for the non-heroic tiers.

    ps. Is Sion immune to Sabine's armor shred as well?

    Why dont you read the details, damnit! literally scroll down.

    It says defense debuffs. Armor shred is not a debuff. (the text indicates that)
  • Options
    JaggedJ wrote: »
    I can't figure out DN/Unbreakable Will to save myself.

    Attempt 1: DN cooldown at 2, decide to leave it one extra turn. Except he goes twive in a row. Dead and reset.

    Attempt 2: Put Unbreakable Will on with 2 to go. DN just goes through his normal turn and it's gone by the time he annihilates. Dead and reset.

    Attempt 3: Yes, got it. Annihilate and nobody dead. Oh wait, he gets to take another go, force drain, cooldowns added to all healers. Unbreakable Will off, attacked. Sigh...dead and reset.

    Attempt 4: This ones my favourite. Timed it right. Unbreakable Will is on, it's DN's turn to use aannndd.....he doesn't use it. Normal attack, Unbreakable Will off, annihilare. Dead and reset.

    Too much of a chore for my liking. I'll just enjoy the other 3 phases and come back to DN after a couple of weeks when people have it more figured out.

    That is why I think healers should get 100% TM and reset their cooldowns on healer abilities whenever a Unbreakable will expires.
  • Options
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Ok.
    We finally finished the p1.
    P2 seems to be more balanced.
    I am still not sure how the Pain system works.
    @CG_RyDiggs can we get a clarification what the exact numbers are for the damage boost?
    And please give us the nubers for the normal Sion's pain as well. It would be great to know how much the bonus damage is exactly.
    Great job with the second phase, it is really enjoyable. The stacking tenacity is a bit to much, I would change it to 25% from 50%, at least for the non-heroic tiers.

    ps. Is Sion immune to Sabine's armor shred as well?

    Why dont you read the details, damnit! literally scroll down.

    It says defense debuffs. Armor shred is not a debuff. (the text indicates that)

    I meant for the pain part, which is in very clear view
  • Options
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Ok.
    We finally finished the p1.
    P2 seems to be more balanced.
    I am still not sure how the Pain system works.
    @CG_RyDiggs can we get a clarification what the exact numbers are for the damage boost?
    And please give us the nubers for the normal Sion's pain as well. It would be great to know how much the bonus damage is exactly.
    Great job with the second phase, it is really enjoyable. The stacking tenacity is a bit to much, I would change it to 25% from 50%, at least for the non-heroic tiers.

    ps. Is Sion immune to Sabine's armor shred as well?

    Why dont you read the details, damnit! literally scroll down.

    It says defense debuffs. Armor shred is not a debuff. (the text indicates that)

    I meant for the pain part, which is in very clear view

    Well then. But the regular pain description doesnt imply how much extra damage Sion deals to enemies with Pain.
Sign In or Register to comment.