The raid issue on Han [MERGE]

Replies

  • Yah, not cool. Sorry we figured out a good strategy, but that’s part of it and shouldn’t be punished.
  • Formerly_Randy
    333 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Yes!!! Don't stop with StHan either! Nerf everyone!

    Nerf Han
    Nerf JTR
    Nerf Death Trooper
    Nerf anyone who can actually be strategized to do any damage!

    Raids aren't about strategy anyways! None of this game is! Remove any thinking and just make it pure damage output! That way I can finally run my CUP alongside my Palpatine and they will both do equal amounts of damage!

    DO IT!!!!!!
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Boomer8800 wrote: »
    wanna bet they will oppress our voices and anger by closing this thread..

    I'll take that bet. But I bet some comments get deleted...

    only the ones that go beyond the Forum Guidelines.

    "Only the ones that go beyond the forum guidlines" ;)
  • Nauros wrote: »
    One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...

    That is exactly how they fixed the zSavage issue in HAAT and why we have heal immunity after enrage. The only problem was that it made Sav completely useless for the raid after the fix..... but this is the most likely outcome. I get the business/income argument as Id do the same in their shoes, but I would target the raid so that it encouraged 5 to 10 ppl in an average guild to spend the money for the high damage toons while making sure the other toons in the deck did real damage and adjust raid health accordingly. That is how you ballance profit vs. customer satisfaction.
  • Mojo_1
    54 posts Member
    Maybe they could just add in a fix that gives Traya 100% turn meter after 50 attacks or so, that way you could do decent damage without breaking the raid or Nerfing StHan?
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Mojo_1 wrote: »
    Maybe they could just add in a fix that gives Traya 100% turn meter after 50 attacks or so, that way you could do decent damage without breaking the raid or Nerfing StHan?

    Awww what an optimist xD.
  • Degs29
    360 posts Member
    I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
  • Degs29 wrote: »
    I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
    One was a bug, one is a dev oversight
    Chimaera without farming gave players an unfair advantage
    Some guilds getting to use st han pre nerf and some not is an unfair advantage

    Lame Straw man, false equivalency
  • leef wrote: »
    leef wrote: »

    That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.

    The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.

    Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.

    You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
    The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.

    So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.

    Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.

    One of the aspects that makes this game fun? There’s a lot I like about this game. I’d venture 95%+ don’t think that is one of them.

    Raise your hand if you enjoy theory crafting to find good raid teams, spending 3 months starring and gearing them up, and then having them become useless because a new premium character breaks the raid.

    I hate that the first 2 raids became a joke. If I felt this one wouldn’t as well I would support a nerf. But you and I both know that at some point they are going to intentionally break this raid with a character and charge us heavy resources for it. It’s old an tiresome, and not fun at all.
  • So many of the arguments I see for nerfing it are that it can be solo'd in p3. How many of you have tried heroic?

    It isnt easy even if you have the right characters. If this nerf goes into effect I'm not sure heroic will even be beatable atm short of being a kraken in a kraken guild. I'm in a 145mil gp guild and we couldn't finish on our first try because not everyone has jtr, visas and marauder.

    This raid is right now intended as a pay to win event and people found a way around that. This nerf would be punishing the player base for being smart.
  • And then for those talking about zylo and savage.

    No one character should be able to solo phases in a relatively new raid so that sort of "nerf" is understandable. This isn't the case, Han just makes the team run.

    Nute cheese team being "nerfed" was a fix. Tm was only supposed to be gained once per turn but it was being gained multiple times. Han is doing exactly what he's supposed to do.
  • Degs29
    360 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Degs29 wrote: »
    I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
    One was a bug, one is a dev oversight
    Chimaera without farming gave players an unfair advantage
    Some guilds getting to use st han pre nerf and some not is an unfair advantage

    Lame Straw man, false equivalency

    I don't think it's a false equivalency. The mechanics are the same. An oversight by CG resulted in unintended consequences that benefited some but not others.

    I will agree it is a difference of scale though. One is obviously more balance-altering than the other.
  • Honestly, I think there is a way that the devs can make it so STH can still be viable in the raid while also preventing these teams from getting 40-100 million damage.
    All they’d have to do is limit the number of stacks of bonds of weakness Traya can have. Once she reaches that number, it doesn’t deal damage, which would stop Han’s unique, ending the Tm manipulation loop and leaving all 5 characters able to be defeated with a single attack. That would leave STH viable in the raid, and people who invested in the team wouldnt have wasted resources, but instead of doing absurd damage, maybe it does 5 or 6 million.
    I think that’s a fair compromise really... so it probably won’t happen like that.
  • Just threw chirpa elder wicket paploo and sthan into tier 4 after Nihilus and Sion were dead.

    95% health on traya.

    Setup Han with the buff.

    Hit auto.

    Came back an hour later, raid finished... ?15M damage.

    Definitely needs a hotfix
  • Michal
    90 posts Member
    StHan was nerfed but dev please look closely to his taunt on last phase when only Traya left. His taunt and TM gain still works. Playing with NS + StHan can solo full phase.

    Please look at this before someone gets banned for this :)
  • Fockd
    57 posts Member
    Traitor
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    leef wrote: »

    That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.

    The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.

    Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.

    You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
    The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.

    So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.

    Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.

    One of the aspects that makes this game fun? There’s a lot I like about this game. I’d venture 95%+ don’t think that is one of them.

    Raise your hand if you enjoy theory crafting to find good raid teams, spending 3 months starring and gearing them up, and then having them become useless because a new premium character breaks the raid.

    I hate that the first 2 raids became a joke. If I felt this one wouldn’t as well I would support a nerf. But you and I both know that at some point they are going to intentionally break this raid with a character and charge us heavy resources for it. It’s old an tiresome, and not fun at all.

    Oblivious it is.
    While i'm sure what people think they want is not always what they actually want, you're last statement about hating that the first 2 raids became a joke is next level. Hot danggg.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    No one will get banned for this obviously and i don't think it's patched yet
    Hey Holotable Heroes!
    Below is the list of issues being addressed in an upcoming Content Update [HF] TBD (soon™).
    Sith Triumvirate Raid: Phases 3 and 4
    There is an interaction between Stormtrooper Han and Darth Traya allowing Stormtrooper Han to grant teams an unintended amount of Turn Meter in the raid.
    This interaction will be addressed in our next hotfix as a part of our ongoing commitment to refining the raid.
    I will update this list as we approach the release time.
    Thank you for continued support of this great game!
    Fight on Heroes!
    CG_RyDiggs

    bolded sentence indicates it's not yet patched.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161408/content-update-hf-upcoming#latest
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    It isn't patched yet. There was no restarts till the message came out.
  • Michal
    90 posts Member
    OK then - I thought that it was already live.
  • @Michal , no one gets banned for playing the game as it is made available nor utilizing a mechanic that isn't circumventing the games program. Firstly, granted the current StH advantage can be viewed as an exploit but it isn't anything outside of what is currently employed in other raids and the mechanics offered there. If it were the case we would be getting banned for auto-soloing Hpit. Secondly, why would you want to be that person to prevent the enjoyment of said mechanic by your fellow players by sounding an unnecessary alarm to already known about issue?
  • Their definition of refining the raid is making it harder when people have already been saying it's way op. Makes sense lol
  • Weequay
    40 posts Member
    Vader lead with zeta, Thrawn, Stormtrooper Han, Palpantine and Raid Han can currently complete phase 3 regardless of gear level. The only requirement is for Stormtrooper Han to taunt before he dies. After Han taunts, Traya never takes another turn. Setting up the combo is ridicolously easy compared to other teams like chirpantine for the HAT raid. In addition chirpantines damages was dependant on gear level. For Vader/Stormtrooper Han damage is independant of gear level because the team is able to solo the whole phase. The special ability granted in this phase is not required for this team to work. So this is clearly not working as intended.
  • TVF
    36445 posts Member
    Hotfix is coming "soon."

    So enjoy this STHan thing for at least a few more months!
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
    Weequay wrote: »
    Vader lead with zeta, Thrawn, Stormtrooper Han, Palpantine and Raid Han can currently complete phase 3 regardless of gear level. The only requirement is for Stormtrooper Han to taunt before he dies. After Han taunts, Traya never takes another turn. Setting up the combo is ridicolously easy compared to other teams like chirpantine for the HAT raid. In addition chirpantines damages was dependant on gear level. For Vader/Stormtrooper Han damage is independant of gear level because the team is able to solo the whole phase. The special ability granted in this phase is not required for this team to work. So this is clearly not working as intended.

    The point people arguing in favor of this re-balance are continually either missing of ignoring is that while the raid may not be working as intended by CG all the mechanics are working as intended and described. This was an oversight on their part, which is kinda mind-blowing to me because every time a new character is introduced with retribution or a unique/leader that counterattacks STHan is always mentioned within one page of the character post. TM gain has always been strong and as a result at least some portion of the player base has never forgotten Han so it boggles my mind that the devs did.

    If they nerf STHan overall because of their oversight that's not OK. Adjust the enrage mechanic if you must, that seems perfectly reasonable, but Han is doing what he's always done. He's balanced everywhere they didn't forget about him.
  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.
  • Nauros
    5419 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Hotfix is coming "soon."

    So enjoy this STHan thing for at least a few more months!

    Somehow, I don't think this is the same "soon" as in ship hardware. Wish it were...
  • swgohfan29
    1147 posts Member
    fascizio wrote: »
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.

    Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.
  • I'm REALLY late to this party, but what is this issue everyone is talking about? Checking as many replies as I could, STHan grants TM when damaged while Taunting and now Devs are going to nerf that? What else am I missing?
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