Sith Triumvirate Raid Changes [MEGA]

Replies

  • Cstone812
    266 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    We definitely need a fix with the reward payout or something to make this raid actually worth doing....my 80mil gp guild pretty much is just letting it sit. No one wants to take the time to play this when we get junk rewards. Unless I’m getting traya shards I’m not gonna spend time playing through this slog.
  • i think its a typical cash grab B)
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    jjkriv wrote: »
    DarthResin wrote: »
    Good thing I spent all that money and resources on RJT to have her Nerfed. Feels good man.

    http://imgur.com/zxOVoxI

    Im with this guy,Shes a legendary toon,whats the problem here?Commander Luke can stomp a mudhole in the rancor by himself and not a peep about nerfing him.If our guild cant complete the heroic haat after this foolishness,say goodbye to a bunch of quality peeps.Are you guys seriously trying to destroy this game?

    The problem is the Expose mechanic which will have current and long term effects. We needed to make the change for current raid along with all future Raid Bosses, and we decided to make the change along with fixing the ST Han loop.

    It was always going to happen, and we chose this update. HOWEVER, we're hoping the fact we gave you all a week's notice to provide feedback and for us to provide what ever clarity we can helps.

    It is not a popular change, but we want to make sure you all understand we're working for meeting the design goals of current and future Raid Bosses.

    We're never happy to miss player expectations, and will continue efforts to avoid that at all costs.

    Thank you for your support!

    RT

    We ARE giving you feedback, hundreds, thousands of it.
    Don't change abilities and functions we have worked for, farmed, paid.
    What kind of statement do you need more ?
    Can't you read ?

  • Telperien wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs, I am telling you from a player perspective what I am seeing is T4 and T5 lvls of the raid. According to your own info posted for the raid is for lvl 70 star 4 characters. I don't see how that would even be possible for a guild with only that lvl of characters in inventory when a guild with lvl 85 and G11 and g12 star 7 characters is struggling to down a T4 in a reasonable amount of time. The difficulty doesn't seem to be scaling right.

    This is my experience too. My teams that clearly exceed the tier 4 minimum requirements (g11, 7*, lvl 85 w/arena mods) struggle to get 1-2 million damage. If you only used toons that hit that minimum requirements I can't imagine it would take less than a month. That's just terrible balance if 2 million damage in a tier meant for 4*, g8, lvl 70 toons is a struggle for top tier toons.
  • So is there any chance of them not doing all this?
    I kinda understand the Stormtrooper Han nerf but even that we found a way trough skills that they created and we have to pay for it?
    I know you probably didnt expect people to find something this powerfull so soon but taking it away is not the answer.
    So as a member of this community I want to ask you please dont roll out these changes.
    Thank you.
  • TVF
    27419 posts Member
    Shanara68 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    jjkriv wrote: »
    DarthResin wrote: »
    Good thing I spent all that money and resources on RJT to have her Nerfed. Feels good man.

    http://imgur.com/zxOVoxI

    Im with this guy,Shes a legendary toon,whats the problem here?Commander Luke can stomp a mudhole in the rancor by himself and not a peep about nerfing him.If our guild cant complete the heroic haat after this foolishness,say goodbye to a bunch of quality peeps.Are you guys seriously trying to destroy this game?

    The problem is the Expose mechanic which will have current and long term effects. We needed to make the change for current raid along with all future Raid Bosses, and we decided to make the change along with fixing the ST Han loop.

    It was always going to happen, and we chose this update. HOWEVER, we're hoping the fact we gave you all a week's notice to provide feedback and for us to provide what ever clarity we can helps.

    It is not a popular change, but we want to make sure you all understand we're working for meeting the design goals of current and future Raid Bosses.

    We're never happy to miss player expectations, and will continue efforts to avoid that at all costs.

    Thank you for your support!

    RT

    @CG_RyDiggs. You state that the nerf to expose was always going to happen and you chose now to implement this change. Why now? Why not in the beginning? Hmmm. Curious. Seems to me money probably had a role it that choice. Make enough money off people getting RJT squads and once that quota was met then change her mechanics.

    So everybody paid for JTR back in December because they knew there would be a new raid released in March that she would dominate? And then the devs announced they would nerf expose...because they made enough money in the past two weeks?

    What are you even talking about? Did you think about it at all before posting it?
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Shanara68 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    jjkriv wrote: »
    DarthResin wrote: »
    Good thing I spent all that money and resources on RJT to have her Nerfed. Feels good man.

    http://imgur.com/zxOVoxI

    Im with this guy,Shes a legendary toon,whats the problem here?Commander Luke can stomp a mudhole in the rancor by himself and not a peep about nerfing him.If our guild cant complete the heroic haat after this foolishness,say goodbye to a bunch of quality peeps.Are you guys seriously trying to destroy this game?

    The problem is the Expose mechanic which will have current and long term effects. We needed to make the change for current raid along with all future Raid Bosses, and we decided to make the change along with fixing the ST Han loop.

    It was always going to happen, and we chose this update. HOWEVER, we're hoping the fact we gave you all a week's notice to provide feedback and for us to provide what ever clarity we can helps.

    It is not a popular change, but we want to make sure you all understand we're working for meeting the design goals of current and future Raid Bosses.

    We're never happy to miss player expectations, and will continue efforts to avoid that at all costs.

    Thank you for your support!

    RT

    @CG_RyDiggs. You state that the nerf to expose was always going to happen and you chose now to implement this change. Why now? Why not in the beginning? Hmmm. Curious. Seems to me money probably had a role it that choice. Make enough money off people getting RJT squads and once that quota was met then change her mechanics.

    So everybody paid for JTR back in December because they knew there would be a new raid released in March that she would dominate? And then the devs announced they would nerf expose...because they made enough money in the past two weeks?

    What are you even talking about? Did you think about it at all before posting it?

    Yes I did. People got RJT for haat and the PvP meta. Only now they decide to nerf expose, even though they claim to have known it was going to happen for months. Do you even have a clue as to how much money could've been dropped. Ok let's see, it took 1 day to have 3 7* g12 sions in my PvP. In a week there are 15. So 15 7* at about $300 each is $4500 in one shard. Do the math. Its a massive amount of money worldwide. So yeah it's about the money irreguardless if a Sith raid was known to exist or not. At the time people were getting RJT to be able to smash HAAT. Now she's the only good squad available for the STR. Would've been better to nerf expose from the start. Not months later. I'm going to assume you don't have RJT, due to your apparent support of this nerf. Which, if you do not have her, why add your 2 cents?
  • TVF
    27419 posts Member
    Lol you have no idea what you are talking about.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Lol you have no idea what you are talking about.

    I know more than you think.
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Shanara68 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    jjkriv wrote: »
    DarthResin wrote: »
    Good thing I spent all that money and resources on RJT to have her Nerfed. Feels good man.

    http://imgur.com/zxOVoxI

    Im with this guy,Shes a legendary toon,whats the problem here?Commander Luke can stomp a mudhole in the rancor by himself and not a peep about nerfing him.If our guild cant complete the heroic haat after this foolishness,say goodbye to a bunch of quality peeps.Are you guys seriously trying to destroy this game?

    The problem is the Expose mechanic which will have current and long term effects. We needed to make the change for current raid along with all future Raid Bosses, and we decided to make the change along with fixing the ST Han loop.

    It was always going to happen, and we chose this update. HOWEVER, we're hoping the fact we gave you all a week's notice to provide feedback and for us to provide what ever clarity we can helps.

    It is not a popular change, but we want to make sure you all understand we're working for meeting the design goals of current and future Raid Bosses.

    We're never happy to miss player expectations, and will continue efforts to avoid that at all costs.

    Thank you for your support!

    RT

    @CG_RyDiggs. You state that the nerf to expose was always going to happen and you chose now to implement this change. Why now? Why not in the beginning? Hmmm. Curious. Seems to me money probably had a role it that choice. Make enough money off people getting RJT squads and once that quota was met then change her mechanics.

    So everybody paid for JTR back in December because they knew there would be a new raid released in March that she would dominate? And then the devs announced they would nerf expose...because they made enough money in the past two weeks?

    What are you even talking about? Did you think about it at all before posting it?

    All dev interviews about JTR, PRIOR TO RELEASE, boasted her amazing ability to out-perform all other previous characters in raids. "It is where she will excell" was the basic gist of EVERY interview.

    They're all still out on youtube.

    As for the money... newp. Not "in the past 2 weeks". Try... "in the next 8 months". This nerf was to create a void they WILL fill with new characters that will cost $$$.
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    Im going to suggest a very simple suggestion instead of all of this:

    If you change expose you change the balance in the WHOLE GAME which can cause a myriad of unintented balance issues.

    2 simple options: Just make these raid bosses immune to expose OR make them like Kylo Ren and take "reduced damage from percentage health effects." Add it as an ability under "Fearsome Foe IV" or something similar so you can give it to select bosses.

    Simple solution. Fixes the problem in raids and doesnt break balance in the rest of the game. Which, I would suggest, is the best its ever been.
  • Jeric
    270 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    jjkriv wrote: »
    DarthResin wrote: »
    Good thing I spent all that money and resources on RJT to have her Nerfed. Feels good man.

    http://imgur.com/zxOVoxI

    Im with this guy,Shes a legendary toon,whats the problem here?Commander Luke can stomp a mudhole in the rancor by himself and not a peep about nerfing him.If our guild cant complete the heroic haat after this foolishness,say goodbye to a bunch of quality peeps.Are you guys seriously trying to destroy this game?

    The problem is the Expose mechanic which will have current and long term effects. We needed to make the change for current raid along with all future Raid Bosses, and we decided to make the change along with fixing the ST Han loop.

    It was always going to happen, and we chose this update. HOWEVER, we're hoping the fact we gave you all a week's notice to provide feedback and for us to provide what ever clarity we can helps.

    It is not a popular change, but we want to make sure you all understand we're working for meeting the design goals of current and future Raid Bosses.

    We're never happy to miss player expectations, and will continue efforts to avoid that at all costs.

    Thank you for your support!

    RT

    I have several problems with this line of reasoning:

    1. This shows a remarkable lack of foresight on CG's part. If this was "always going to happen", then why not simply make the change with the launch of the Sith raid? Then it's simply the design of the raid and at least I for one would just say, well, it's a bummer but I'll just need an alternative to JTR in this one.
    2. The way that you are going about this just isn't very imaginative. If you're concerned about the viability of other teams, it just isn't the case that directly nerfing Jedi Rey across all raids is the only alternative.
    Option 1: Boost faction abilities more in particular phases to give other factions an edge
    Option 2: Give factions handicaps in certain phases. Make a particular stage immune/take less damage to expose
    Option 3: You already have a raid boss turn limit. Give the boss a damage limit at which point they become enraged, thus making it such that soloing the raid with one team is impossible if that's your desired mechanic
    Option 4: Have a guild-wide counter on the number of teams of any particular faction used, then require more factions to complete the raid

    Personally I'd most prefer interesting combinations of the above 4 options.

    I'm good with limiting the dominance of a particular faction, but what you're currently talking about seems incredibly hamfisted and driven more by an economic desire to hold off progress than a well-conceived "plan" for the game as you purport. It's easy to rush out this "fix" whereas the above 4 options would take more time to test, develop and conceive. So you're smacking JTR down as opposed to giving us thoughtful, quality mechanics that demand more from the playerbase. Color me disappointed and unimpressed.
    VonZant wrote: »
    Im going to suggest a very simple suggestion instead of all of this:

    If you change expose you change the balance in the WHOLE GAME which can cause a myriad of unintented balance issues.

    2 simple options: Just make these raid bosses immune to expose OR make them like Kylo Ren and take "reduced damage from percentage health effects." Add it as an ability under "Fearsome Foe IV" or something similar so you can give it to select bosses.

    Simple solution. Fixes the problem in raids and doesnt break balance in the rest of the game. Which, I would suggest, is the best its ever been.

    @CG_RyDiggs these are perfect examples of actionable feedback to improve the general player experience across the board. Solutions oriented feedback is value added, and at least gives you some concrete templates to discuss and refine algorithmically.

    I'm also curious if you could elucidate on the reasons behind the disparate responses to player complaints over the difficulty of DSTB and the STR. It appears that you quickly responded to player dissatisfaction concerning difficulty by retuning the DSTB by the time the second one came around irrespective of the rosters. One of the common complaints here is that the lower tiers of the STR are too difficult.

    Here is an actionable solution that is inline with the spirit of other end game content you have previously released (like the DSTB). Simply adjust the lower tiers. Leave the Heroic as an appropriately demanding challenge, but ease up on T 4-6. You adjusted the DSTB difficulty without making the higher phases/slices a cake walk, and did not reduce the star requirement for mastery.

    My Guild is 73 million. We should be able to enjoy Tier 5 instead of going through the motions on lower tiers due to the lack of any incentive. I consider game design an artform. Does an artist want their work to be considered such a mundane chore that it is so readily dismissed as not worth the effort? Isn't one spirit of game design about offering accessible experiences?
  • Zevox
    172 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    VonZant wrote: »
    Im going to suggest a very simple suggestion instead of all of this:

    If you change expose you change the balance in the WHOLE GAME which can cause a myriad of unintented balance issues.

    2 simple options: Just make these raid bosses immune to expose OR make them like Kylo Ren and take "reduced damage from percentage health effects." Add it as an ability under "Fearsome Foe IV" or something similar so you can give it to select bosses.

    Simple solution. Fixes the problem in raids and doesnt break balance in the rest of the game. Which, I would suggest, is the best its ever been.
    Um, you seem to misunderstand a few things here.

    First, raid bosses already take reduced damage from percentage health effects. If they didn't, five exposes would end every phase of every raid, since exposes are normally 20% of the target's maximum health. I'm not sure what the specific number is, but on raid bosses expose does a mere fraction of a percent already.

    Second, they aren't changing the balance of the whole game here, they openly said they're decreasing the effect of expose on raid bosses specifically - and have waffled on whether it's all raids or just the Sith raid.

    That said, still plenty of reason to be annoyed here, since exposes are already dealing a perfectly reasonable amount of damage in raids and the problem is that Rey is the only team doing as well as she is, not that she's doing too well and somehow "stifling other teams" as a result. But what you seem to think is going on simply isn't.
  • Confirmed, @TVF is a CG spy trying to undermine our honest and well thought out feedback.
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Zevox wrote: »

    First, raid bosses already take reduced damage from percentage health effects. If they didn't, five exposes would end every phase of every raid, since exposes are normally 20% of the target's maximum health. I'm not sure what the specific number is, but on raid bosses expose does a mere fraction of a percent already.

    Second, they aren't changing the balance of the whole game here, they openly said they're decreasing the effect of expose on raid bosses specifically - and have waffled on whether it's all raids or just the Sith raid.

    That said, still plenty of reason to be annoyed here, since exposes are already dealing a perfectly reasonable amount of damage in raids and the problem is that Rey is the only team doing as well as she is, not that she's doing too well and somehow "stifling other teams" as a result. But what you seem to think is going on simply isn't.

    Then reduce the damage to raid bosses even more or even easier just make them immune in some phases. Its clear they want the raid to take a long time and make many teams useful. JTR teams will still be super useful in other parts of the game. In the sith raid they would be brought back near the rest of the pack. There is nothing that says even a pay for team has to be the best in all parts of the game.

    In Tank phase 2 and 4 all teams that rely on TMR or Daze or Stun, etc are nerfed because of immunity. Sith phase 1 punishes counter and assist teams. This would be no different by nerfing expose in certain areas.

    And I cant find it now but I swear I saw a later post that said they were going to rebalance expose throughout the game, and not just in raids. Maybe I am remembering it wrong though.

    EDIT: And if I completely misunderstood it and they are just nerfing expose in raids then I dont get all the fuss. Thats not to say that I agree with how tenacity works in this raid or the Nihlus hp pool, but having a certain mechanic nerfed in parts of a raid doesnt seem bad to me. Just read the fearsome foe immunity list. This has already been something they have done with some mechanics for a long time.
    Post edited by VonZant on
  • Zevox
    172 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Its clear they want the raid to take a long time and make many teams useful.
    The former is clear, the latter isn't at all. The changes they're looking to do here won't make more teams useful, because the things that are keeping non-Rey teams down aren't changing at all. They'll just make the raid that much more of a slog because the one team doing well will do less.
  • Telperien wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs, I am telling you from a player perspective what I am seeing is T4 and T5 lvls of the raid. According to your own info posted for the raid is for lvl 70 star 4 characters. I don't see how that would even be possible for a guild with only that lvl of characters in inventory when a guild with lvl 85 and G11 and g12 star 7 characters is struggling to down a T4 in a reasonable amount of time. The difficulty doesn't seem to be scaling right.

    This is my experience too. My teams that clearly exceed the tier 4 minimum requirements (g11, 7*, lvl 85 w/arena mods) struggle to get 1-2 million damage. If you only used toons that hit that minimum requirements I can't imagine it would take less than a month. That's just terrible balance if 2 million damage in a tier meant for 4*, g8, lvl 70 toons is a struggle for top tier toons.

    We were having the same discussion in our guild. It took us 4 days to clear T4 and we can clear HAAT in a few hours. We are currently trying T5 and are stalled out halfway through P1; it is laughable and a joke.

  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    Zevox wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Its clear they want the raid to take a long time and make many teams useful.
    The former is clear, the latter isn't at all. The changes they're looking to do here won't make more teams useful, because the things that are keeping non-Rey teams down aren't changing at all. They'll just make the raid that much more of a slog because the one team doing well will do less.

    I agree the HP pool thing is kind of silly. But I dont fault them wanting to make it more difficult and take more time.

    But other teams are useful now. Bounty Hunters. Jawas. Droid teams (I hear). Phoenix has a place in P2. Magmatrooper. Tenacity in general, which is normally a laughingstock. I havent tested GMYoda yet but I think him leading a jedi team might be useful.

    Personally I like it for variety and its good for their pocketbook. Make us farm and gear more toons. There is a reason for me to gear my Bounty Hunters now. But I agree the raw HP pool needs to be toned down. Phase 1 feels like a chore.
  • DasMurich
    245 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    You know just struck me as kind of hilarious between this thread and the one in General...

    All the "this is a game about resource management" and the "this game is a marathon not a sprint" comments are nowhere to be found. I'm not seeing that old snarky remark being posted.

    How's your resource management going? Not happy with the changes? Hey, you'll adapt, eventually, because it's a marathon.

    If you find 3, 4, or 5 months of work going down the drain just chill man, because your on SWGOH time.
  • Enas_Yorl
    448 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    My guild is at 45 Mio GP. We can play HRancor in 10 minutes and Haat in 3 hours as some players have sufficient good and "right" chars. We have 5 JRT or so. We can play Tier 6 of STR which would last 2.5 weeks; Tier 5 in 1 week and Tier 4 in 4 days.
    All are hating this raid; because only JRT is doing well, all other simply fail.
    We will go on with playing Tier 4 in Auto Mode. No one needs to think about what to do, you simply get something around 200k to 800k damage.
    Then we get more Tokens and some Loot instead of struggling and being angry with this bugged design and the upcoming cash oriented redesign.
    I think that is CGs way how they want to see the Sith raid being played, isn't it?

    Edit: Automode will make the struggle short, 5 minutes for 5 teams for the day and than we continue in other parts of the game which are good, satisfactory and have a nice fun ratio. Hey, its a mobile game for relaxing and not for frustration.
    Post edited by Enas_Yorl on
  • GJO
    160 posts Member
    Thanks God, better this, since I don't have BB8 and it seems to be the only way to get high damage on HAAT instead of having a good roster, please nerf him too.
  • TVF
    27419 posts Member
    Jedi_Bane wrote: »
    Confirmed, @TVF is a CG spy trying to undermine our honest and well thought out feedback.

    Yeah, I know, using logic and common sense, not to mention acting like an adult, means I must work for CG. Cool.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Hi!
    Will Barriss Offee's Zeta ability be affected? She was not listed originally along the other characters, but I still wonder...
    Thanks
  • kalidor
    1997 posts Member
    I wish they'd change the stacking tenacity so that it only applied to TM reduction. The current tenacity stacking makes a big part of my roster useless. It seems like TM reduction was the main issue that they were trying to solve with the stacking tenacity anyway, as that is what enables soloing of raids.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • jjkriv
    428 posts Member
    Well deathmark is still bugged,it expires and im still stuck on nihilus in part 4,way to keep feeding him protection ;(
  • humarcika wrote: »
    Hi!
    Will Barriss Offee's Zeta ability be affected? She was not listed originally along the other characters, but I still wonder...
    Thanks

    I’m assuming the damage that triggers these effects doesn’t crit.
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