Anyone else find this raid unfun?

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ArchdemonJanuary
138 posts Member
edited March 2018
The release brought it back for me that raids were always an annoying part of the game. It was one thing when it was the only guild event, but now.... TB and TW just seem waaay better.

CG seems determined to turn it into pure grind fest where every interesting strategy is killed and giving everyone an equal chance was always basically impossible so you had to rotate start times and fighting your own guild is annoying to begin with. Early on it's annoying bc you have to wait for people to go in and do their damage so you have to keep checking, later on it moves to fast to experiment and all and it's basically just annoying to deal with, esp with all the interesting teams getting nerfed.

I'd rather just change it over to a TB style scoring people can just log in whenever, do their damage and everyone gets the same thing after you grind it out. Keep the lb for bragging rights. The TB/TW lb seem to motivate people so I don't think it would change much other than making those of us who have to work(i.e. support the game) happier.
iN Spectre

Anyone else find this raid unfun? 377 votes

Yes
77%
AetherDaishiSaetetDarthDark_JediOrbawarmonkeyDal_ZubaCorvusJedi_of_OzNikoms565ArchdemonJanuaryJamitocuyler41XizeMeister_Bilbo91Dooku_for_daysPotatoMananonidudeTaramel 293 votes
No
16%
RebmesHK666GwonkZombie961WassupSkykrakerDarth_cowboySaKaEm3CCyrilSAdoy_IdeJNicWesterEatABallWeequayColliiDrakkonMrGripsPlatzmanNo_TryIdraRageKyloRey 64 votes
Other(explain)
5%
ZtyleSilver_Radd_SurferTooLMaegorIndominable_JCridironBauerIceih_SWGFieldLCarSickShoeKenle_YophoObiJuanPolloDarth_AamonKreontasIgneoMorteFirst_but_66_OrderYanM123biglippedbeastJedi_BaneGlauron 20 votes

Replies

  • Other(explain)
    I respect that it is difficult and wish the payouts were better, but it is different soo...
  • swgohfan29
    1147 posts Member
    No
    double negatives :/
  • Yes
    As a fan of the kotor series I think the raid has great potential but is implimented horribly. Especially phase 1 where DN basically has a soft or hard counter to 90% of meta toon mechanics. That's topping off the fact that the tier descriptions don't matchup at all with the difficulty. Like on tier 4 my g11, 7*, leven 85 rebels are doing ~.05% damage per attack on a tier supposidly balanced for 4*, g8, level 70 toons. When my toons exceed the tier description by so much I expect they'd be doing 2-5% damage per attack and I can't imagine how impossibly long it would take with toons that only meet the tier minimum.
  • HK666
    1263 posts Member
    No
    I think people are missing the point that you aren't supposed to do a large amount of damage with one team, no matter how far over the recommended you are. Did 2%? good. Now if your guild members do the same, phase is done.

    I would be down for it being more like TB where rewards are equal tho. That'd be dope
  • Rhettro
    74 posts Member
    I see the point in making it tough I do. But when your taking away every feature that a faction has going for it I..expose what's the point? Why not make more toons viable by giving them more mechanics other than stripping then away. Diversity should be fun not a bother. Deathmark is a great mechanic but it is limited to one toon. Also the phases are all out of whack, nilly is impossible while the others are, meh. Heroic should be hard to get but it should not be limited to whale guilds, they are already getting all the tb/tw good rewards. Why make a raid so specific that it takes toons behind a paywall to win as well. If Cg keeps doing this they are going to lose a bunch of loyal devoted players that love this game. Oh and you can also tell that some of the people who voted no did so by accident(see above comment) lol. I bet this raid has a 90% disapproval rating. Great job on tw/tb, but continue to step it up, don't just throw massively overpowered raid bosses at us.
  • Neo2551
    1824 posts Member
    Yes
    It destroys the spirit of a guild: strong members pull weaker members.
  • Love the characters and setting. Raid just takes too long and has junk rewards. Throw some teams on auto is all I do now.
  • Naw
    969 posts Member
    Yes
    The situation is the same as always: Rewards don't match the effort. Unfortunately CG seems to think that it's fun to take down a mountain with a chisel.

    Then going out of their way to say that they WANT people to come out with new strategies and promptly go and nerf them is not the way to encourage anyone.

    At the same time I understand that the raid needs to be challenging, but hey, I've seen Tier 6 rewards. I have better things to do in my life than being frustrated all the time.
  • Ztyle
    1970 posts Member
    Other(explain)
    I find it fun now but with the upcoming change, I seriously dob't I will find it fun anymore, as it basically becomes a brute force raid
    I'm Danish , Leader of the Space Slug Alliance , living the SlugLife , My collection
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Yes
    HK666 wrote: »
    I think people are missing the point that you aren't supposed to do a large amount of damage with one team, no matter how far over the recommended you are. Did 2%? good. Now if your guild members do the same, phase is done.

    I would be down for it being more like TB where rewards are equal tho. That'd be dope

    I think you're missing the point if you think the point people are making revolves around doing large damage with a single team.
  • Yes
    It's hard to argue that the raid is "fun" when literally everything that worked has been neutered by insane tenacity and speed gains, fracture? Forget about it! CLS/Raid Han TM removal, you're joking! Exposes work! Nah, let's reduce that effectiveness too. As stated in another thread it's a reverbial game of whack-a-mole (in which case our toons are the moles) and that the only effective strategy now is sheer numbers and DPS.
    There's suspicion of the next characters to be released are going to do good in the raid.. but of course be p2p
  • Other(explain)
    I did not enjoy it, but I do not dare to say it is a bad raid, it can be just too difficult or too much health in some bosses or I understood just part of the mechanic and there are extra mechanics to see that I did not see.
  • Yes
    HK666 wrote: »
    I think people are missing the point that you aren't supposed to do a large amount of damage with one team, no matter how far over the recommended you are. Did 2%? good. Now if your guild members do the same, phase is done.

    I would be down for it being more like TB where rewards are equal tho. That'd be dope

    You're kinda missing the point though that if your team far exceeds the tier recommended minimum (say in tier 4) but you can barely pull 2% it effectively means you'd be lucky to do .5% damage per team that meets the minimum. Your guild would be looking at a massive grind to finish phase 1 alone to say nothing of the rest of the raid.

    That's not fun, that's just a mindless grind for a chance at the 1001 piece of challenge gear. None of the other raids work like that. If your team/toons far exceed the tier minimum you'll be shaving a hefty % off the phase boss health. The devs didn't scale health/difficulty well at all based on the tier recommendation.

    Rewards should be like TB though, if beating the raid requires team effort and no one member can carry the guild.
  • NasRegal
    142 posts Member
    No
    I was pretty narked on my first couple of goes, I felt it was a pay to play event, all the guys with JRey were killing it.
    At 2.8 mill GP I was doing next to nothing and it left a bitter taste in my mouth.
    So, after I put my teddies back in my pram, I spoke to my guild, we shared experiences, team ideas and now we're getting somewhere.
    I'm not sure if we're at Heroic lvl yet but sorting out usable teams is a good start to enjoying this raid.
    And I'm now enjoying it.
  • Yes
    Unfun. I’m in a 150+million GP guild. We’ve already had 3 members who’ve been playing since 2015 go on hiatus possibly permently over all the new content that are considerable time drains, especially with back to back TWs and now this Sith Raid. Guys with 3.25-3.5mil GP which makes it hard for them to step away. The time sink of this new raid and lack of options to do any real damage (when you’ve got 50+ g12 toons and pretty much every toon 7* it’s pretty lame that you’re basically limited to JTR, DT+whatever, NS teams to do any decent damage) has been enough to even make the more hardcore type players to step back and put the game down. And this was only when we did T6.

    Currently doing Heroic but even at over 24 hours in we’re still in P2. We’ve got 10 players without JTR and many without 7* Zombie so it’s been slow in managing the damage. There aren’t many viable damage teams to push through. Yes, TI teams have but that’s like the top .01%. The difference between T6 (or at least toon refresh help) to Heroic is just too wide of a grey area between completeable and not imo. It isn’t really fun. And nerfing the mechanics that do work (sthan cheese excluded) are going to change that. It’ll only make it worse/even less fun.
  • JeerCScaas
    186 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Yes
    I'm OK with a new raid being a challenge. I loved that with Rancor and then AAT.
    And I was expecting some difficulties and challenge. No problem not being able to beat heroic the first week/month.
    It took me a while to tune my roster HAAT until I soloed it.

    BUT

    - The mechanics of this new raid requires a swgoh degree. (multiple bonus per character role i.e)
    - Tenacity levels makes any strategy useless. Even the latest upgrades we have. (Empire, Nightsisters, Siths ... Debuffs, TM manipulation ...)
    - The blue shield being given randomly is a non sense for example. It's pure RNG and requires multiple restarts. => TIME consuming. And NOT FUN at all.
    - Nihilus using or not his anihilate based on its cool down, randomly. What strategy can I put together ? (again TIME consuming and restarts)
    - I've finished twice 1# in T6. Besides the currency, the lack of gear is outrageous. 3 salvages for a g12 piece ? Meaning at least 10 raids to assemble a piece ? (If you are lucky to receive the same, so based on the known RNG, I bet it'll at least triple)
    - And now, devs are telling me after all exposed (sarcastic) above that they are nerfing the 2 strategies the players base have developed thanks to their expertise and knowledge ? (Expose and STHan).

    Seriously. It's disappointing.
  • Swordd
    161 posts Member
    Yes
    JeerCScaas wrote: »
    I'm OK with a new raid being a challenge. I loved that with Rancor and then AAT.
    And I was expecting some difficulties and challenge. No problem not being able to beat heroic the first week/month.
    It took me a while to tune my roster HAAT until I soloed it.

    BUT

    - The mechanics of this new raid requires a swgoh degree. (multiple bonus per character role i.e)
    - Tenacity levels makes any strategy useless. Even the latest upgrades we have. (Empire, Nightsisters, Siths ... Debuffs, TM manipulation ...)
    - The blue shield being given randomly is a non sense for example. It's pure RNG and requires multiple restarts. => TIME consuming. And NOT FUN at all.
    - Nihilus using or not his anihilate based on its cool down, randomly. What strategy can I put together ? (again TIME consuming and restarts)
    - I've finished twice 1# in T6. Besides the currency, the lack of gear is outrageous. 3 salvages for a g12 piece ? Meaning at least 10 raids to assemble a piece ? (If you are lucky to receive the same, so based on the known RNG, I bet it'll at least triple)
    - And now, devs are telling me after all exposed (sarcastic) above that they are nerfing the 2 strategies the players base have developed thanks to their expertise and knowledge ? (Expose and STHan).

    Seriously. It's disappointing.

    A very good summary of the issues. Though I am totally OK with the STHan nerf...just wish they had caught it before release. Auto for 30m+ damage on day 1 is silly. My thoughts on that will change if they do not send out compensation with the fix, because there is a real cost in game materials, time, and potentially real money for all the folks who spent time, crystals, energy, and gear to get their STHan ready after the strategy was found.
  • KKatarn
    629 posts Member
    Yes
    Giant HP, being unable to apply debuffs other than unavoidable turn meter reduction and subpar rewards em relation to the dificulty level....
    Of course it is nor fun. :/
  • Other(explain)
    Yes and no. I absolutely love that they're pulling more from KOTOR, and I'm fond of mechanics that (in theory) require you to plan and think as you play instead of just finding the one or two teams that work and then just mindlessly doing the same thing over and over. I don't even mind the lack of an escape mechanic for a raid that (again, in theory) requires use of its mechanics to fight the bosses rather than finding a cheesy strategy to beat it. But now comes the part where I have to complain, which I hate having to do since I love so much of the theme and characters associated with this raid. The bosses have so many counters to common strategies that the majority of teams are not viable. Teams that use debuffs are all but useless because of the stacking tenacity. Characters that multi-attack are more of a hindrance than a help. "Looming threat" style characters (Wampa, Farmboy Luke, characters that build up increased damage over time) don't have enough time to ramp up their damage because their teammates get in the way by causing damage that increases the speed of the bosses. Speedy characters don't matter because they just make the bosses that much faster when they attack frequently. The COLOSSAL health pools of the bosses mean you need characters that do insane damage, but most of those do so via a "gimmick" of some sort that is nullified by one of the above problems. Apparently even high level guilds are struggling with the heroic, mandating perfect coordination with 50 people that all have hefty rosters. People with less coordinated guilds and/or those where not every player is active or useful at those high levels are out of luck. I can't imagine that I'll ever unlock Traya with my current guild unless years pass and the level/gear caps increase (assuming as well that my guildmates actually stick around that long and gear up the needed characters). I don't want to leave my guild, even to get one of my favorite characters for a triumvirate team I've fantasized about for years. I like my guild. They're not the best, but I've been with them since essentially day one of guilds. Yet I don't see another option. Frankly all of this has worn me down as far as the game is concerned. I was really excited for the new raid and characters, but now that's mostly eclipsed by the demoralizing prospect that parts of the game that I was most interested in may be completely inaccessible.
  • Yes
    P2 Sion removing 100% TM on one stack in Heroic that states 2% TM removal per stack on torment is awesome! Especially with the stacking tenacity and other stuff that is dumb to begin with. But let’s nerf the player experience instead of tuning the game. Makes sense... says no one.
  • Jeric
    271 posts Member
    Yes
    Well conceptualized but poorly implemented and executed. My Guild will be sticking to the other Raids until improvements are made. I will not be participating at all.
  • Morgon_Kara
    67 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Yes
    Yes it is not fun.

    I came on the forums specially to say it’s not fun.
  • Other(explain)
    Basicly it is fun.
    But it is a bad sign how long it takes to finish.
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