Why even do the Sith Raid at all?

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Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid. We would have capped tickets long before we'd finished the raid.

So currently, we're in p4 now, several days into a tier IV run.... but we're asking ourselves. Why even bother? The rewards are so lack luster, it's literally not worth our time to even run the raid. Whoopity do, a couple of rng pieces of gear I don't need and some tokens once a week. That's... not worth it, and certainly not worth the time and investing in characters for an eventual heroic raid that is 30 or 40 whales away from what we have.

Without compelling reasons to do the raids, and the audacity to nerf the main viable strategies, I wouldn't be surprised if more guilds just don't let the raid sit, or toss it to low tiers and just throw auto teams at it. No one is going to run a complex raid with difficult mechanics when we're getting better gear, more often, from hpit every other day nearly.

So really... what point is there to new content if there's no new rewards....

Replies

  • The sith raid is extremely hard right now because it’s the first iteration. HAAT was once impossible for most guilds back when it was first introduced. In any case, if this was the guilds first time clearing HAAT, tier 6 would’ve been impossible. You do the raid so you later know how to do better at it to do higher tiers that’ll give you better rewards. If you don’t feel like the rewards are good enough, don’t do it...
  • two words: Darth Traya
  • TVF
    13528 posts Member
    two words: Darth Traya

    You need to read the OP again.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • CCyrilS
    1958 posts Member
    If you're not up to the challenge, just pick a low tier and auto for a few rewards. You're no worse off than you were before.
  • Mahbrethir
    234 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    The sith raid is extremely hard right now because it’s the first iteration. HAAT was once impossible for most guilds back when it was first introduced. In any case, if this was the guilds first time clearing HAAT, tier 6 would’ve been impossible. You do the raid so you later know how to do better at it to do higher tiers that’ll give you better rewards. If you don’t feel like the rewards are good enough, don’t do it...

    Tier 6 wasn't impossible for us, it was just a pain. It's more likely that no one will run the raid until strategies are nailed down and the devs stop nerfing things that work. There's no point in doing the raid for the practice when tier IV is so easy the raid mechanics almost don't matter, and you can just whack away without worrying about them, you're not really even learning. It's a not *difficulty* problem, it's a time, loot, and bloated HP problem.
  • TVF
    13528 posts Member
    Wait, you said you're several days into a T4 run, and yet T4 is "so easy?"

    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Why even do the Sith Raid at all?

    For the sense of accomplishment.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Wait, you said you're several days into a T4 run, and yet T4 is "so easy?"

    Finish reading my post.

    "It's a not *difficulty* problem, it's a time, loot, and bloated HP problem."

    If you don't need a strategy to do good damage and hit the enrage timer, it's not hard. It's just a bloated HP pool.
  • Mr_Sausage
    1798 posts Member
    For the fantastic rewards?
  • TVF
    13528 posts Member
    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Wait, you said you're several days into a T4 run, and yet T4 is "so easy?"

    Finish reading my post.

    "It's a not *difficulty* problem, it's a time, loot, and bloated HP problem."

    If you don't need a strategy to do good damage and hit the enrage timer, it's not hard. It's just a bloated HP pool.

    Any raid below heroic is "easy" if you want to just hack away at it. There is strategy in this new raid that will make it go faster.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid. We would have capped tickets long before we'd finished the raid.

    So currently, we're in p4 now, several days into a tier IV run.... but we're asking ourselves. Why even bother? The rewards are so lack luster, it's literally not worth our time to even run the raid. Whoopity do, a couple of rng pieces of gear I don't need and some tokens once a week. That's... not worth it, and certainly not worth the time and investing in characters for an eventual heroic raid that is 30 or 40 whales away from what we have.

    Without compelling reasons to do the raids, and the audacity to nerf the main viable strategies, I wouldn't be surprised if more guilds just don't let the raid sit, or toss it to low tiers and just throw auto teams at it. No one is going to run a complex raid with difficult mechanics when we're getting better gear, more often, from hpit every other day nearly.

    So really... what point is there to new content if there's no new rewards....

    This is the truth!
  • Darthpedro
    1175 posts Member
    OP I feel the same way. The gear rewards are nowhere near the investment required, we are struggling through t5 (we have 1 JTR in our guild) and after this one we are going lower and just throwing on auto to get through and get currency.

    Normal AAT at least had exclusive gear to justify its presence. This raid (outside treya shards which we are so far away from they aren't worth considering) has no rewards I can't get anywhere else so it is worth nothing as far as I am concerned. Not to mention after all the effort, I will probably get some challenge gear I have thousands of which makes it an even bigger waste of time.
  • Good, let the hate flow through you. Peace is a lie.
    raw
    Two Time Golden Poo Award Winner
  • It's about progression. The point of doing a lower tier isn't to just learn mechanics, it's to get you gear or items to make the next tier possible. Being that the rewards of accessible tiers will be items that we already have hundreds of, the simple 'farm for currency' isn't really worth the time, there's no progression, the lower tiers.... are.... *drumroll* useless.
  • Darthpedro
    1175 posts Member
    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    It's about progression. The point of doing a lower tier isn't to just learn mechanics, it's to get you gear or items to make the next tier possible. Being that the rewards of accessible tiers will be items that we already have hundreds of, the simple 'farm for currency' isn't really worth the time, there's no progression, the lower tiers.... are.... *drumroll* useless.

    I agree with the idea of progression however if I get currency faster by doing lower tiers and I can use that to get the gear I want and need that works for me

    Let's list out tiers 5-7

    Tier 5 rancor gear I get from rancor raid

    Tier 6 AAT gear I get from Tank raid

    Tier 7 treya shards only unique thing in this raid but largely inaccessible to 90+% of guilds

    Gear 12 pieces are in some tiers but I can get those with currency and from tb/tw

    For any tier below heroic you can get the rewards easier elsewhere so they are pointless too. So in reality you are either completing for currency or beating heroic.
  • I agree with original OP. Except for a few uber guilds this raid just feels pointless. We've been slogging away at a tier 3 for days now and have only just got Nihilus down to 50%. This is tier 3! What do we get at the end of all this? A few farmable gear pieces, some guild tokens and a tiny amount of credits. Can't see us bothering in the future. The rewards, even for lower tiers, need to be improved drastically to make it worth the effort. How about all tiers giving those harder to find, raid only gear pieces, just less of them?

    I know there will be talk on strategy but this is irrelevant for those lower level guilds that won't have access to powerful squads of hard-to-farm toons. Really don't mind that we can't finish tier 7 yet, we'll build up to it but, in the meantime, please give us some rewards worth fighting for.
  • Why bother? I am yet to see a good answer to that question. So I don't bother. Just post my zero and wait until next week when I get my challenge gear.
  • TVF
    13528 posts Member
    I agree with original OP. Except for a few uber guilds this raid just feels pointless. We've been slogging away at a tier 3 for days now and have only just got Nihilus down to 50%. This is tier 3!

    Then you need to do a lower tier.

    We started on T6. After 1 day we had done about 20% on P1, so it was clear we aimed too high. So we abandoned and did T2. It took 2 hours so it was clear we aimed to low. Now we've done T4 two times, both took 3 days. So that's where we're staying for now.

    The rewards aren't great, and I'd like to see them increased too. With that said, at T4 I got several purple salvage I need, which is more than I can say for HAAT.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    I agree with original OP. Except for a few uber guilds this raid just feels pointless. We've been slogging away at a tier 3 for days now and have only just got Nihilus down to 50%. This is tier 3!

    Then you need to do a lower tier.

    We started on T6. After 1 day we had done about 20% on P1, so it was clear we aimed too high. So we abandoned and did T2. It took 2 hours so it was clear we aimed to low. Now we've done T4 two times, both took 3 days. So that's where we're staying for now.

    The rewards aren't great, and I'd like to see them increased too. With that said, at T4 I got several purple salvage I need, which is more than I can say for HAAT.

    We are! Doing tier 3.
  • In fact, did a tier 1 to start with. The rewards for that were a complete joke and not worth the effort at all.
  • TVF
    13528 posts Member
    If you can't do T3, then you're right it's probably not worth the effort. In that case, you either need to find a stronger guild, or work together as a guild to strengthen your raid teams.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Sirlagzalott
    841 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Personally, I see no incentive to grind away at higher tiers other than "accomplishment". Heroic is obviously not in most of our short term future. After a week, we beat T5 and I ended up with challenge gear that is completely useless. Only thing of value was guild event tokens. Meh
  • Personally, I see no incentive to grind away at higher tiers other than "accomplishment". Heroic is obviously not in most of our short term future. After a week, we beat T5 and I ended up with challenge gear that is completely useless. Only thing of value was guild event tokens. Meh

    This is really the point. We can do tier 3 eventually but why bother? Even at tier 3 you need a strong guild with plenty of level 85 members with reasonable teams, basically people that have been playing for around 6 months but the rewards are aimed at players much lower. It doesn't balance.
  • Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid. We would have capped tickets long before we'd finished the raid.

    So currently, we're in p4 now, several days into a tier IV run.... but we're asking ourselves. Why even bother? The rewards are so lack luster, it's literally not worth our time to even run the raid. Whoopity do, a couple of rng pieces of gear I don't need and some tokens once a week. That's... not worth it, and certainly not worth the time and investing in characters for an eventual heroic raid that is 30 or 40 whales away from what we have.

    Without compelling reasons to do the raids, and the audacity to nerf the main viable strategies, I wouldn't be surprised if more guilds just don't let the raid sit, or toss it to low tiers and just throw auto teams at it. No one is going to run a complex raid with difficult mechanics when we're getting better gear, more often, from hpit every other day nearly.

    So really... what point is there to new content if there's no new rewards....

    I would say that for your guild, there is no point.

    Your statement makes it clear that you aren’t a competitive player and your guild feels the same way.
    To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving. Because if you did, then passing up the gear and currency rewards for this raid wouldn’t even have entered your mind.

    For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster.

    The fact that you aren’t very interested in progressing means that you will only frustrate yorselves for trying. So don’t bother, play the game modes that you like and leave this type of content to those who are interested in it.
  • IssacWhitlock
    73 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    kello_511 wrote: »
    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid. We would have capped tickets long before we'd finished the raid.

    So currently, we're in p4 now, several days into a tier IV run.... but we're asking ourselves. Why even bother? The rewards are so lack luster, it's literally not worth our time to even run the raid. Whoopity do, a couple of rng pieces of gear I don't need and some tokens once a week. That's... not worth it, and certainly not worth the time and investing in characters for an eventual heroic raid that is 30 or 40 whales away from what we have.

    Without compelling reasons to do the raids, and the audacity to nerf the main viable strategies, I wouldn't be surprised if more guilds just don't let the raid sit, or toss it to low tiers and just throw auto teams at it. No one is going to run a complex raid with difficult mechanics when we're getting better gear, more often, from hpit every other day nearly.

    So really... what point is there to new content if there's no new rewards....

    I would say that for your guild, there is no point.

    Your statement makes it clear that you aren’t a competitive player and your guild feels the same way.
    To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving. Because if you did, then passing up the gear and currency rewards for this raid wouldn’t even have entered your mind.

    For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster.

    The fact that you aren’t very interested in progressing means that you will only frustrate yorselves for trying. So don’t bother, play the game modes that you like and leave this type of content to those who are interested in it.

    My guild is lower level but competitive. The point is that the rewards for slogging this event out do not justify the efforts. We could do this event 20 times at a tier level that is approaching reasonable for us and yet the rewards would not particularly help us progress. The rewards should match the time and effort involved to complete. This raid doesn't. Sure it might be great for a 70M+ guild that can take on tier 6 (possible heroic) where the rewards are genuinely helpful in progressing but at tier 3, the rewards are aimed at much lower level players that couldn't possibly hope to complete the tier in less than several weeks!

    My suggestion is for decent raid gear only rewards at all tiers but alter the quantities as the tiers go up. Either that or lower the health on the lower tiers so we stand a chance of completing it before our tickets max out!

    It's so easy for the uber guilds to look down at the lower level ones and assume we aren't competitive or aren't doing it right but have a look at the rewards for a tier 3 sith raid next time before starting a T6/7 and see what our efforts get us! Not a lot!

    It could be great but just feels unbalanced at the moment.
  • Mahbrethir
    234 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    kello_511 wrote: »
    I would say that for your guild, there is no point.

    Your statement makes it clear that you aren’t a competitive player and your guild feels the same way.
    To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving. Because if you did, then passing up the gear and currency rewards for this raid wouldn’t even have entered your mind.

    For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster.

    The fact that you aren’t very interested in progressing means that you will only frustrate yorselves for trying. So don’t bother, play the game modes that you like and leave this type of content to those who are interested in it.

    Please re read the entire post and thread before you comment again. But I'll address your post in the meantime.

    "To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving."

    no, it says that in order to progress, it is pointless to invest time in teams for raids that do not give substantial payouts. Your focus on the Sith raid indicates that you care about progression but have no idea how to do it. You're investing time and in effort in areas of the game that do not give rewards that enable you to progress.


    "For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster"

    Thank you Captain Obvious. You understand progression. And that SHOULD be the case with the Sith Raid, but it currently is not the case, and that is the entire point of this thread. Lower difficulty tiers of the Sith raid are a poor method of obtaining in game currency and gear.

    If you want to move toward getting Darth Traya, the best way to do it is to not do the Sith Raid at all... focus on HPIT, HAAT, and gearing other teams, because the lower tiers of the Sith Raid do not give meaningful rewards that enable you to succeed at higher levels of difficulty.

    This is the essence of progression: efficient farming, profitable goals, end result. You seem to lack that fundamental understanding.
  • IssacWhitlock
    73 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    If you want to move toward getting Darth Traya, the best way to do it is to not do the Sith Raid at all... focus on HPIT, HAAT, and gearing other teams, because the lower tiers of the Sith Raid do not give meaningful rewards that enable you to succeed at higher levels of difficulty.

    This is the essence of progression: efficient farming, profitable goals, end result. You seem to lack that fundamental understanding.

    Nailed it. Was trying to say this but failed. :smile:
  • Mahbrethir wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    I would say that for your guild, there is no point.

    Your statement makes it clear that you aren’t a competitive player and your guild feels the same way.
    To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving. Because if you did, then passing up the gear and currency rewards for this raid wouldn’t even have entered your mind.

    For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster.

    The fact that you aren’t very interested in progressing means that you will only frustrate yorselves for trying. So don’t bother, play the game modes that you like and leave this type of content to those who are interested in it.

    Please re read the entire post and thread before you comment again. But I'll address your post in the meantime.

    "To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving."

    no, it says that in order to progress, it is pointless to invest time in teams for raids that do not give substantial payouts. Your focus on the Sith raid indicates that you care about progression but have no idea how to do it. You're investing time and in effort in areas of the game that do not give rewards that enable you to progress.


    "For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster"

    Thank you Captain Obvious. You understand progression. And that SHOULD be the case with the Sith Raid, but it currently is not the case, and that is the entire point of this thread. Lower difficulty tiers of the Sith raid are a poor method of obtaining in game currency and gear.

    If you want to move toward getting Darth Traya, the best way to do it is to not do the Sith Raid at all... focus on HPIT, HAAT, and gearing other teams, because the lower tiers of the Sith Raid do not give meaningful rewards that enable you to succeed at higher levels of difficulty.

    This is the essence of progression: efficient farming, profitable goals, end result. You seem to lack that fundamental understanding.

    You earn tickets for all raids in parallel. The quickest way to earn gear is not to do pit and aat...it is to do pit, aat AND sith raids.

    While we are re-reading things, maybe you should read my reply again. I didn’t say that you should ignore all other game modes and focus just on low level sith raids.
    You say that you are better off working on haat teams at your stage. Im not arguing that, I’ll take your word for it. I’m saying you should certainly do that - but you can also have a tier 3 or 4 (or whatever tier is appropriate for your guild at this point) open in the meantime and pick away at it. Getting some gear and currency from that is better than your suggestion of “not bothering” with it. That’s my point - if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards.

    And my other point was, if you are even considering passing up free rewards and currencies then you must not be very competitive. And if that’s the case, then you should skip the sith raid and play what you like. But if you’re trying to progress, there is no advantage to ignoring a source of rewards.
  • Gifafi
    1269 posts Member
    A weak guild is having problems with a hard new raid? Shocking stuff, op
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    A weak guild is having problems with a hard new raid? Shocking stuff, op

    Seriously?

    Ah, I get it! This new raid is only for uber, condescending guild members right?

    Another 100M+ GP guild member can't see what all the fuss is about? Shocking stuff...

    All myself and I think many others are trying to say is, like most people, only have so much time a day to dedicate to this game a day as much fun as it is. Don't see the point in participating in a raid that takes so long to complete for a bunch of gear we can't use.

    So, if you can just come down from the lofty heights of some mega-guild and "try" and see it from the point-of-view of the rest of us, tier 3 rewards (the tier aimed at the "weak" guilds) are pretty much useless for the effort required to earn them.

    Well aware that they can be run in parallel. We do that already with pit and tank. Will keep starting sith raids but see participation being low which will increase the time even further to complete...
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