Why even do the Sith Raid at all?

Replies

  • Gifafi wrote: »
    A weak guild is having problems with a hard new raid? Shocking stuff, op

    A weak minded elitist is having problems reading? Shocking stuff.

    No one is talking about difficulty. I'm saying loot tiers are poorly thought out.
    kello_511 wrote: »
    You say that you are better off working on haat teams at your stage. Im not arguing that, I’ll take your word for it. I’m saying you should certainly do that - but you can also have a tier 3 or 4 (or whatever tier is appropriate for your guild at this point) open in the meantime and pick away at it. Getting some gear and currency from that is better than your suggestion of “not bothering” with it. That’s my point - if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards.

    And my other point was, if you are even considering passing up free rewards and currencies then you must not be very competitive. And if that’s the case, then you should skip the sith raid and play what you like. But if you’re trying to progress, there is no advantage to ignoring a source of rewards.

    uh... yeah? duh? Do you think we're not doing that?


    "if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards. "

    This is poor game design. Period. You're not taking away from my point, you're adding to it.
  • kello_511
    1648 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    kello_511 wrote: »
    You say that you are better off working on haat teams at your stage. Im not arguing that, I’ll take your word for it. I’m saying you should certainly do that - but you can also have a tier 3 or 4 (or whatever tier is appropriate for your guild at this point) open in the meantime and pick away at it. Getting some gear and currency from that is better than your suggestion of “not bothering” with it. That’s my point - if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards.

    And my other point was, if you are even considering passing up free rewards and currencies then you must not be very competitive. And if that’s the case, then you should skip the sith raid and play what you like. But if you’re trying to progress, there is no advantage to ignoring a source of rewards.

    “uh... yeah? duh? Do you think we're not doing that?”

    Based on the title of your thread, and your posts stating that you “shouldn’t bother doing it anymore”, yes.
  • I’m in a guild of 100M+ GP. The raid is too difficult.

    I recently watched a MobileGamer video talking about the raid. He also mentioned that one of the goals of the raid is to prevent the ability to AFK auto through the raid. Another goal is to make it so that people can’t post a zero and still collect rewards. To restate the second goal, I think they intend for all guild members to need to put in an effort in order for the raid to be defeated.

    I think to accomplish the first goal, they added the raid abilities. Dealing with DN annihilate is important and an auto play isn’t going to do that as well. Dealing with Pain, Suffering, and Isolation are similar. Good design here, I think.

    I think that to accomplish the second goal, they have the raid an over abundance of health. They also added a lot of tenacity and prevented most TM removal. I think this is the bad design choice. They wanted it to simply require each player to field five teams (non heroic) each day to win. Times 50 players and you may get it done. The problem here, I think, is that many players don’t have five teams capable of dealing real damage. The tenacity issue further exacerbates the problem by eliminating certain teams altogether from contention. Zeta Finn was a mainstay if earlier raids but is dead here. You have no chance of landing and then popping enough exposes.

    This then results in player frustration. This frustration results in not wanting to slap futilely at the bosses. This then results in exactly what the first goal was trying to avoid: auto play. And that’s the best case. In many cases it results in players deciding that it’s not fun, not worth the time, and not worth the rewards.

    The rewards are also lackluster. Yes, you can earn them at the same time as other raids, but they also don’t progress you very far, if at all.

    I think raid health needs to go down a lot. I think the tenacity issue needs to get addressed in order to promote more diverse team usage. That is stifling the variety of teams more than expose damage. Landing those exposes only happens because they are unresistable. I don’t think the suggested change is going to kill RJT teams. The exposes will still land and the TM gain will still happen and that’s what makes the team work. The mechanics for many other teams simply don’t work.
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    You say that you are better off working on haat teams at your stage. Im not arguing that, I’ll take your word for it. I’m saying you should certainly do that - but you can also have a tier 3 or 4 (or whatever tier is appropriate for your guild at this point) open in the meantime and pick away at it. Getting some gear and currency from that is better than your suggestion of “not bothering” with it. That’s my point - if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards.

    And my other point was, if you are even considering passing up free rewards and currencies then you must not be very competitive. And if that’s the case, then you should skip the sith raid and play what you like. But if you’re trying to progress, there is no advantage to ignoring a source of rewards.

    “uh... yeah? duh? Do you think we're not doing that?”

    Based on the title of your thread, and your posts stating that you “shouldn’t bother doing it anymore”, yes.

    Heh. Fair enough. I should have made that clear. It's not worth putting effort into, but as you said, pecking away, and just deciding which tier bests suits the guild. Because even t6 wasn't 'hard' it was just going to take forever.
  • Well I think I officially stopped caring about it...unless the rewards change or until I can start doing the heroic it’s not even worth my time.
  • Hopefully they will tweak it until it works well across the board. Low and high tiers. I do like the idea of encouraging more guild members to take part though rather having just a couple of people doing it.

    Watched the MobileGamer vid earlier and agree that they should have tested it more. The STH issue could have been addressed earlier on and no-one would have been upset by it.

    Also think the tenacity stacking needs to be cut down to make more teams viable, again, specially at lower tiers!
  • I think the main thing we can take away from this thread is that kello_511 has a serious problem with tone lol.
  • I honestly don't mind the stacking tenacity by itself it's an interesting mechanic to work around.

    My biggest problem is debuff proc rates. So phase 1 against nihilus using my Jedi don't laugh, attack minions Yoda gives tenacity up so no defense down and I can attack freely. Now I have 5 buffs gotta stop protection regen. Keep attacking minions until it's Anakins turn and then first shot on nihilus Anakin basic while he still has normal tenacity, but with only 70% chance to apply healing immunity I have to restart several times to get it to land.

    I could mod for potency which would give me a better chance to land my debuff but I still only have a 70% chance to apply it. If the proc rate In the Sith raid and only the Sith raid was set to be 100% default it might be worth trying to work around the potency check but right now instead I just restart 5-10 times till I get some decent starting rng which I hate doing
  • İ just want to add, that lower tiers (3 and 4) of new raid do not teach you any tactics, because you reach "enraged" state of bosses even without clicking on all those new buttons. The difference between auto and manual play is so tiny, that there is no point in wasting your time and playing it manually. I dont know what was initial intentions of the devs, but they definitely did that in favor of autoplay.
    The balance? Never heard of that.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    We're doing T4 and the gear is generally better than HAAT.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    We're doing T4 and the gear is generally better than HAAT.

    So, you want to say that this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044652.png

    is generally better than this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044720.png

    Really?
    The balance? Never heard of that.
  • Gifafi
    6017 posts Member
    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Our guild Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid.
    Gifafi wrote: »
    A weak guild is having problems with a hard new raid? Shocking stuff, op

    Seriously?

    Ah, I get it! This new raid is only for uber, condescending guild members right?

    Another 100M+ GP guild member can't see what all the fuss is about? Shocking stuff...

    All myself and I think many others are trying to say is, like most people, only have so much time a day to dedicate to this game a day as much fun as it is. Don't see the point in participating in a raid that takes so long to complete for a bunch of gear we can't use.

    So, if you can just come down from the lofty heights of some mega-guild and "try" and see it from the point-of-view of the rest of us, tier 3 rewards (the tier aimed at the "weak" guilds) are pretty much useless for the effort required to earn them.

    Well aware that they can be run in parallel. We do that already with pit and tank. Will keep starting sith raids but see participation being low which will increase the time even further to complete...


    triggered.gif. All I said was that it's not surprising that a lower level guild is having difficulty with the new hard raid. we struggled with HAAT at first and now it's easy. and my rewards for like 8th place in this new raid were garbage. welcome to the game!

    ps why can't you use the rewards? if they suck don't do the raid. if you want better rewards get better and move up. this isn't rocket surgery

    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    A weak guild is having problems with a hard new raid? Shocking stuff, op

    A weak minded elitist is having problems reading? Shocking stuff.

    No one is talking about difficulty. I'm saying loot tiers are poorly thought out.
    kello_511 wrote: »
    You say that you are better off working on haat teams at your stage. Im not arguing that, I’ll take your word for it. I’m saying you should certainly do that - but you can also have a tier 3 or 4 (or whatever tier is appropriate for your guild at this point) open in the meantime and pick away at it. Getting some gear and currency from that is better than your suggestion of “not bothering” with it. That’s my point - if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards.

    And my other point was, if you are even considering passing up free rewards and currencies then you must not be very competitive. And if that’s the case, then you should skip the sith raid and play what you like. But if you’re trying to progress, there is no advantage to ignoring a source of rewards.

    uh... yeah? duh? Do you think we're not doing that?


    "if you want to be competitive you would not ignore any potential gear and currency sources. There is no cost to you to do that. Put in 5 teams on auto if you don’t want to spend any time on it. Eventually you will complete it and get some rewards, which is better than watching your tickets burn and getting 0 rewards. "

    This is poor game design. Period. You're not taking away from my point, you're adding to it.

    not about difficulty, tears about not putting a dent in t4. hmmm I'll get back to you re my reading ability...


    wampa is bigger and stronger than leia. did I just insult leia? a guild that just beat haat is a weak guild. that's a fact, not a judgement. find a safe space before you throw insults for no reason. if you just want to cry there's a thread for that.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • sying
    982 posts Member
    @Mahbrethir at the risk of being told I need to re-read everything (which I don’t) let me just say that you aren’t the first nor will you be the last to say that the rewards are a bit light for the amount of effort you put into it.

    Raid gear is raid gear. It’s free gear. It’s FREE gear for completing a task. If you don’t want the free gear or to complete the task then don’t do it. It’s as simple as that. You don’t even have to participate if your guild does. I’m sure a t4 can be completed by 49 people.

    For what it’s worth, most everyone in my guild has received a fully crafted g12 piece every single raid. I received two today. Someone else received two full bayonets. But you’re right, it’s totally not worth it.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    xtended2l wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    We're doing T4 and the gear is generally better than HAAT.

    So, you want to say that this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044652.png

    is generally better than this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044720.png

    Really?

    Can you read? I said "gear."

    I'll take 15 carbanti and 15 stun cuff over useless challenge gear any day.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    Mahbrethir wrote: »
    Our guild just cleared HAAT for the first time. We're kind of proud of that. But we could barely put a dent in teir VI of the of the new raid. We would have capped tickets long before we'd finished the raid.

    So currently, we're in p4 now, several days into a tier IV run.... but we're asking ourselves. Why even bother? The rewards are so lack luster, it's literally not worth our time to even run the raid. Whoopity do, a couple of rng pieces of gear I don't need and some tokens once a week. That's... not worth it, and certainly not worth the time and investing in characters for an eventual heroic raid that is 30 or 40 whales away from what we have.

    Without compelling reasons to do the raids, and the audacity to nerf the main viable strategies, I wouldn't be surprised if more guilds just don't let the raid sit, or toss it to low tiers and just throw auto teams at it. No one is going to run a complex raid with difficult mechanics when we're getting better gear, more often, from hpit every other day nearly.

    So really... what point is there to new content if there's no new rewards....

    I would say that for your guild, there is no point.

    Your statement makes it clear that you aren’t a competitive player and your guild feels the same way.
    To say that “the rewards aren’t worth it” demonstrates that you don’t care all that much about improving. Because if you did, then passing up the gear and currency rewards for this raid wouldn’t even have entered your mind.

    For everyone else, the point is to earn more gear quicker to help you move up to the next tier as soon as possible. And then repeat and take on the next tier. And so on until you one day have a g12 Traya in your roster.

    The fact that you aren’t very interested in progressing means that you will only frustrate yorselves for trying. So don’t bother, play the game modes that you like and leave this type of content to those who are interested in it.

    The point is he can better gear outside of the Sith raid. He may not be as 'competitive as you but he is right in doing a pointless raid with no real rewards is a waste of time. Wasting time has nothing to do with improving your game.

    And that is leaving aside all the other issues with this raid.
  • Gifafi - Don't mind the struggle, just not worth the rewards at the end of it. Like most people, only have so much time a day I can spend playing this and that time is better spent on the other raids. We'll start a new one of these as and when available (waste otherwise) but I'll simple auto 5 times and move on as will most of the guild as I can gather. I'm pretty sure that this isn't what the devs intended for this new raid...
  • xtended2l
    85 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    TVF wrote: »
    Can you read? I said "gear."

    I'll take 15 carbanti and 15 stun cuff over useless challenge gear any day.

    Are you blind? Do you see the color of the boxes? Can you click on them and see the drop chances? İf you received what you needed, it doesnt mean that gear rewards are the best in general. Tier4 of Sith raid gives you near 6 purple gear with a tiny chance of receiving complete gear, while HAAT gives you a chance of receiving 25-50 purple\gold gear, and high chance to receive complete gear. When did you received complete gold gear through the daily challenges last time?
    Post edited by xtended2l on
    The balance? Never heard of that.
  • xtended2l wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    We're doing T4 and the gear is generally better than HAAT.

    So, you want to say that this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044652.png

    is generally better than this:
    Maxthon_Snap20180312044720.png

    Really?

    I commend this man for taking the time to screenshot, crop and post this to enlighten someone who still tries to turn the idea down. Truly a man of culture
  • I agree. The prizes for t5 and t6 are lame.

    could just farm that gear a lot quicker.
  • I'm an officer in a top 50 guild and so far only like maybe 3 people in guild want to play new raid anymore. It's boring and rewards aren't worth the effort or time sink AT ALL. Game is way too bloated for a mobile game recently with too much content that is not enjoyable or rewarding one bit especially when you add in no decent way to move mods around or manage them.
    I'm not playing this game for fun anymore which is just sad, I play it to be social with guild and with your new content you are destroying guilds as folks stop playing or want to move to one of the few guilds that can beat heroic since they have the GP to just throw at it and hit auto.
    *** Also remove the daily ship requirement battle. If you can't beat whales for top 20 everyday then ships is 100% a waste of time and with all this other unfun new content it's becoming too much time wasted doing stuff we don't want to which inevitably forces folks to rethink why they are wasting time in the first place.
  • LaksonVell wrote: »
    I commend this man for taking the time to screenshot, crop and post this to enlighten someone who still tries to turn the idea down. Truly a man of culture

    Thanks mate. I'll add that even HPIT is better than Sith Raid at tier 3\4. Because we receive good, commonly used rewards for completing the RAID, and it takes 15 minutes, not several days. Sometimes I receive complete Furnace MK5! Damned furnace is a 120 purple gear stuff, which is being used by almost every character in the game.

    The balance? Never heard of that.
  • The developers have lost the plot.
  • xtended2l wrote: »
    LaksonVell wrote: »
    I commend this man for taking the time to screenshot, crop and post this to enlighten someone who still tries to turn the idea down. Truly a man of culture

    Thanks mate. I'll add that even HPIT is better than Sith Raid at tier 3\4. Because we receive good, commonly used rewards for completing the RAID, and it takes 15 minutes, not several days. Sometimes I receive complete Furnace MK5! Damned furnace is a 120 purple gear stuff, which is being used by almost every character in the game.

    My first raid reward was a complete MK5 Furnace. I didn't quite realise how worth it was, it pretty much went like this:
    AffectionateWelltodoGarpike-size_restricted.gif
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Half my guild does T4.

    Other half couldn't care less.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    xtended2l wrote: »
    LaksonVell wrote: »
    I commend this man for taking the time to screenshot, crop and post this to enlighten someone who still tries to turn the idea down. Truly a man of culture

    Thanks mate. I'll add that even HPIT is better than Sith Raid at tier 3\4. Because we receive good, commonly used rewards for completing the RAID, and it takes 15 minutes, not several days. Sometimes I receive complete Furnace MK5! Damned furnace is a 120 purple gear stuff, which is being used by almost every character in the game.

    Everyone knows that Heroic Pit also gives better gear that HAAT. HAAT gear sucks 90% of the time and if you don't know that you either are the luckiest person on the planet or you don't actually do HAAT. And you certainly don't every read the forums because everyone else but you knows that HAAT gear sucks as well. Do you not see a new thread every day about useless challenge gear in HAAT?

    Really?

    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    xtended2l wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Can you read? I said "gear."

    I'll take 15 carbanti and 15 stun cuff over useless challenge gear any day.

    Are you blind? Do you see the color of the boxes? Can you click on them and see the drop chances? İf you received what you needed, it doesnt mean that gear rewards are the best in general. Tier4 of Sith raid gives you near 6 purple gear with a tiny chance of receiving complete gear, while HAAT gives you a chance of receiving 25-50 purple\gold gear, and high chance to receive complete gear. When did you received complete gold gear through the daily challenges last time?

    It's now clear you aren't doing HAAT. "A high chance to receive complete gear" is a high chance the same way that "soon" is soon. I.e. it's not. The color of the boxes is completely meaningless once you get the actual reward and it's just yellow crap you already have 1000s of from challenges.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • The only annoying part for me is half my guild has this mentality that it's not worth doing so they don't participate (or very little) so it takes us a lot longer to finish raids than it should
  • The only annoying part for me is half my guild has this mentality that it's not worth doing so they don't participate (or very little) so it takes us a lot longer to finish raids than it should

    That's very fair point. I'm not going to sit out of it but I am going to auto it so I can spend my time on other parts of the game for now. This is particularly true for phase 1.
  • The only annoying part for me is half my guild has this mentality that it's not worth doing so they don't participate (or very little) so it takes us a lot longer to finish raids than it should

    That's very fair point. I'm not going to sit out of it but I am going to auto it so I can spend my time on other parts of the game for now. This is particularly true for phase 1.

    Yeah whatever about the raid rewards and what not but I think we can all agree Phase 1 is not fun.
  • The only annoying part for me is half my guild has this mentality that it's not worth doing so they don't participate (or very little) so it takes us a lot longer to finish raids than it should

    That's very fair point. I'm not going to sit out of it but I am going to auto it so I can spend my time on other parts of the game for now. This is particularly true for phase 1.

    Right. The difference between auto and trying is negligible for most teams. The choice is obvious to me.
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