Upcoming Sith Triumvirate Raid Changes: 3/12 [MEGA]

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TyloRen
381 posts Moderator
edited March 2018
DEV POST
Summary

This week we will be making the following changes to Raids in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes:
  • [CHANGE] The Expose debuff has been reduced from 0.0004 of Raid Boss health to 0.0002 of Raid Boss health across all raids.
    • Testing indicates Rey (Jedi Training) remains one of the most effective squads in the Sith Triumvirate Raid in spite of the 50% reduction in damage from Expose.
  • [CHANGE] Sith Triumvirate Raid Boss health in Phase 1 has been reduced by 5% across all tiers.
  • [CHANGE] Raid Darth Traya’s Bonds of Weakness will no longer activate “on-damage” abilities.
    • This change will prevent Storm Trooper Han’s infinite loop in the raid.
  • [CHANGE] When Raid Darth Traya becomes Enraged she will dispel all positive status effects on her enemies and apply an undispellable, unresistable buff immunity as well.
  • [FIX] Sith Triumvirate raid Phase 2, Darth Sion will no longer incorrectly remove 100% turn meter using "Torment".

  1. Why Change “Expose”?

    We’ve been actively monitoring play patterns, player behavior, and community sentiment since the release of the Raid. This change is part of our commitment to maintaining a healthy game for the long-term, which means we occasionally need to make changes when unintended play patterns emerge.

    Late last week, we determined a change needed to be made to the Expose mechanic. However, we still needed to undergo rounds of tuning and testing before settling on specific numbers. In our ongoing commitment to communicating with our players, we wanted to let you know changes were coming (in advance of specific details) to give everyone time to consider how that might impact their investment in certain characters.

    We’d like to let you in on our thinking and the process on how we arrived at that decision.
  2. Expose’s Design Intent and History

    Expose was originally intended to be a high risk, high reward mechanic. The intention was for it behave like a Damage over Time (DoT) with the added complexity of requiring interaction to make it most effective. As a reward for this extra interaction, Expose did four times the damage of a DoT. When Expose was initially launched this worked out as we intended.

    With the introduction of Zeta abilities, Finn's Zeta Leader ability changed Expose to be a source of cool-down reduction and turn meter manipulation (in the context of a Resistance squad).This solved a couple problems with the Resistance faction, making it more powerful as well as giving it a clear identity (e.g., the Expose squad). However, Expose at this point stopped being as much a source of damage and more a source of making Resistance squads go faster.

    When we introduced Rey (Jedi Training), we wanted to add strategic options to the Resistance. Finn-led teams would rotate cooldowns more quickly. Rey (Jedi Training) led teams would do more damage output. We were satisfied with distinction between the two.

    When we decided to give Rey (Jedi Training) an unresistable ability, Expose changed from being a high-risk/high-reward strategy, to a strategy that had few (if any) downsides. At the time, this didn’t present as a significant issue. Rey (Jedi Training) was performing as intended in PvP and in the existing raids. We were in the process of designing the Sith Triumvirate, so we knew we’d have a fresh challenge for Rey (Jedi Training) soon enough. Or so we thought….
  3. Raid Mechanics

    As we build raids, they become interesting time capsules of the state of power, gear, synergies, and status effects at their initial release. When the Rancor and the AAT were originally released there was no Gear Tier XII, no Zeta abilities, nor many of the synergies that now exist in the game. Furthermore, guild sizes and dynamics have shifted dramatically over time, also changing the way players strategize and interact with the raids. Raids have gone from something a dedicated few do, to the thing many dedicated Star Wars fans do together… which we think is awesome.

    As we develop new raids we have two primary tuning levers: health and mechanics. There are other, more subtle tools, but those are the largest and most obvious. Health naturally increases in the raids as synergies and raw power trend upward over time. Additionally, our intent is for players to leverage as much of their roster as possible to accomplish larger and more heroic challenges.

    The Sith Lords are such iconic and interesting characters, that the Sith Triumvirate Raid was an obvious opportunity to introduce significant and intricate mechanical design decisions. So much of what makes Galaxy of Heroes interesting is understanding the interactions between the many characters and abilities, and gaining mastery over opponents in combat. With this raid, we wanted to add new layers of depth and see what strategies guilds would come up with, AND use the results to inform emergent strategies for the future.
  4. The Dilemma

    To keep raids challenging over time, we have had to increase the amount of raid health and the complexity of the mechanics. The problem is percent-based health mechanics become increasingly more powerful as boss health goes up. The Expose mechanic has become so powerful it now virtually snuffs out most other strategies.

    Our perspective is that an overwhelming single-solve undercuts what makes the game interesting, and presents a threat to the future of the game.

    The question then is: do we remove the ability to use one of our most fun and powerful teams by saying, “No Expose” (for a raid that is currently difficult)? Or, do we compromise and change Expose so its effect is mitigated, but still powerful. We’ve opted for the latter.
  5. The Solution

    After testing, we believe moving Expose from .0004 to .0002 will keep Rey (Jedi Training) teams competitive in the Rancor and AAT (and will also keep Finn Zeta Leader Ability teams competitive as well), but will mitigate them being overpowered in the Sith Triumvirate raid. Additionally, the gap between Expose and other emerging strategies is less pronounced, which we believe will help spur on additional, lively theorycrafting.

    In making this change to Expose, we’re attempting to balance short-term enjoyment of the new raid content with the continued overall health of the game.

  6. The Future

    As we introduce new mechanics, game modes, and as the game’s power level increases over time, we will continue to evaluate all aspects of long-term game health.

    At times, there may be cases where changes to the game are necessary. When those cases arise, we will try to be as transparent as possible with the community.

We appreciate your passion and commitment to the game, and with your help, we will continue to improve Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes.

CG_TopHat


DEV POST

Replies

  • Letting you all know, I'm aware this got out late in the day. I'll be here tomorrow answering what I can. We hope the data above helps with clarifications.

    Talk to you tomorrow!

    RyDiggs
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Flugsvamp
    180 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    So you keep the insane tenacity which pigeon holes us in to which squads do or do not work.

    Trying to apply dots after round 3 is like licking an electric fence, slightly amusing but mostly painful
  • Wow, health reduction only in p1...
  • Aplus
    138 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    50% reduction is a pretty huge hit... I myself don’t really have rey, and I have actually never seen anyone complain about jtr in raids before the nerf.

    All we did was complain about jtr being the ONLY VIABLE TEAM in the new sith raid, NOT that she is OP NEEDS NERF. If you close a door, you need to leave a window OPEN.

    Lower the tenacity, increase viability of other squads! We don’t like chipping away a brick wall! 100 million health nihilus -5% still has 95 million!

    Can’t land dots, cant slow, fracture gives more tm and speed than it actually takes away, nothing sticks, nihilus regain protection, special ability does next to nothing...

    The problem with the raid is it’s LONG and DRAGGED OUT and makes so many teams UNVIABLE. If you take away 50% expose, then at least take away 25% of nihilus health, make the buffs 50% shorter cooldown in p1 p2, 100%—> 300% bonus in p3/4, lower protection regain by nihilus, drop that ridiculous tenacity and tell us just ONE squad that is currently viable except jtr!
  • Bz183 wrote: »
    Cowards

    We're trying to let you know what we do and be more transparent on why we do it when we can. If this still isn't meeting expectation, know we'll keep working to do so as best we're able. As always, we'll be considering the overall long-term good of the game in every change and addition we make.

    Tks for the support!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Remember when everyone said "wait until they reveal how much they nerf expose! It might not be bad!" Yeah they just halfed expose... I dont know if it's even worth the Finn zeta for the tank anymore, might as well just zeta veers instead. Heck even Cody is probably a better zeta now.
  • s0uleman
    39 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    I don't complain about much. But after what it took to get Rey (JT), This is the worst possible thing you could do besides removing expose completely.
  • Themy
    96 posts Member
    This raid is terrible for the game. Remove the tenacity on hit and adjust the health accordingly to make the raid harder. Players want to do damage on a raid and they don’t want to be stifled because devs can’t think of better mechanics. You are literally nerfing the only good damage dealing team and then cutting health by 5%. You guys obviously don’t have a clue how the majority of your player base feels about this awful raid.
  • when's the CAP increase?
  • So you really couldn’t do any better? What a weak effort...
  • “...which we believe will help spur on additional, lively theorycrafting”

    You know what would help spur theorycrafting? Not nerfing every theory that pans out to the point it is no longer useable.
  • In all seriousness... I guess we know what "slightly" and "minimal impact" is. 5% and 50% respectively.

    Still nothing on Tenacity stacking, huh?

    I want to understand, I do. Help me understand.
  • Drago5760
    92 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    5%!!! 5%!!! Come on. You cut JTR’s effectiveness by 30-40% (exposes don’t do all the damage). You know JTR is the most effective team. And you don’t balance ANYTHING else to account for that lost damage? So you made a raid that is plainly overtuned for the rewards, a raid that is declared “not fun” by huge swaths of the player base, a raid with such high tenacity that debuffs are next to useless, HARDER?

    Not much else to say to CG except, you won’t be getting any of my money any time soon.
    Post edited by Drago5760 on
  • This still doesn't make sense. Y'all didn't notice this while monitoring AAT raids? If the problem exist in the Sith raid why NERF, because that's what this is, the AAT and Rancor raids as well? You had the data before. This is going to set so many lower guilds back in HAAT prep.

    I would love an answer, why impact all raids if the problem is only in the Sith raid not behaving as intended?

    Thanks in advance.
  • 5 days of playing a raid and still lame rewards,and that's all 3 raid rewards, gutted but thanks for sorting expose out on a toon we have to farm 2 worthless vets to get,in which I have done 3 refreshes a day for a week, to gain 6 shards SORT THE DROP RATE OUT PLEASE
  • No changes to the horrible stacking tenacity and barely changes to health. Right.... nice one CG. Expect a very happy community.
  • This must be a joke... please tell me this is a joke... the dev's been using the argument that overall health is reduced to put the raid more in-line after the expose nerf... 5%... this better be a ... joke
  • Delmon_Ciiidrr
    504 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    One thing I dont get is why the new raid just hasnt been rolled out with 0.0002 instead of 0.0004, a comment that raid bosses take reduced expose damage, dont change the old raids and we wouldnt have this discussion.

    While the current transparency is at least a step in the right direction, th trust level with various screw ups in the past is so low that there is not much creditibility left. A good next step would be an explanation/adjustment of the challenge/unused gear in rewards - topic that has been evaded forever. It cannot be that your current most difficult challenge gives gear that players have in thousands - that doesnt count as rewards.
  • So looking at my Screen Shots it looks like on my 12 million JTR runs about 3 million was raw damage and 9 million from exposes. So that’s close to a 40% damage reduction for JTR teams. That’s huge. I’m so glad I used those zetas on BB-8 just for the raid...
  • Kilganon
    3 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Note to the Devs: Remove the Tenacity up on hit! You will have many love viable teams and actually promote viable “theorycrafting”. It’s a better alternative to nerfing the only real viable team.
    Also, I like the way the zFinn expose mechanic vs the JTR expose mechanic was explained. The only problem with that explaination is that zFinn expose was characterized as purely TM manipulation and not damage dealing as intended. I don’t think you realize that by being able to manipulate the TM, one in fact increases overall damage output.
  • APX_919
    2468 posts Member
    I have two little words that would actually helo this raid: lower tenacity. It's been said by many others that the 50% boost in tenacity lowers effectiveness of many, many teams. A cap at say 85% tenacity would prove useful as it would keep things tough but possibly doable.

    Want to keep Tenacity Down from applying? Ok, sure. Forces us to improve potency.

    Remove health under protection? Alright, bring healers back.

    Annihilate is permakill? With the special raid buff, this is workable.

    Stacking speed? This is more annoying but again can be worked around.

    Stacking tenacity? There's the problem. There's the pigeonhole. There is the lack of diversity in teams. That was the force to JTR teams as all others failed miserably in phase 1.

    Stormtrooper Han suddenly useful? An unexpected benefit but one that is now lost to us. I agree that it was OP and not intended so stopping this strategem, while disappointing, was the right thing to do.
    "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
  • This is utter non sense. Cutting the damage of the best team in half is the worse move CG could have made. On heroic I doubt 50 RJT teams could complete it by themselves so more theory crafting is still required rendering your argument completely moot.

    Vast majority of guilds only have a handful of RJT teams anyway. In effect you are punishing players that forth the time and effort to get a great team. The reality is these guilds are depending on those few with the RJT teams. So again, your argument is not only moot but null and void as additional theory crafting is involved.

    No one disagrees with adjusting the storm trooper han mechanic in the raid. It made a phase soloable by I a single team. However changing the way every other toon that uses a receive damage mechanic is again utter nonsense. Especially considering the newest toon released is even affected by this.

    The community has offered several viable alternatives but once again CG has proved they do not listen to the players. Don’t insult us again.
  • Phern
    172 posts Member
    And lower boss health further decreases expose damage. Guess ill get traya in 2019
  • One thing I dont get is why the new raid just hasnt been rolled out with 0.0002 instead of 0.0004, a comment that raid bosses take reduced expose damage, dont change the old raids and we wouldnt have this discussion.

    While the current transparency is at least a step in the right direction, th trust level with various screw ups in the past is so low that there is not much creditibility left. A good next step would be an explanation/adjustment of the challenge/unused gear in rewards - topic that has been evaded forever. It cannot be that your current most difficult challenge gives gear that players have in thousands - that doesnt count as rewards.

    Heya @Delmon_Ciiidrr

    There are MANY places and features we would love to affect in the game given time and resources to do so. Unfortunately, we have to prioritize. Currently for this conversation, we need to ensure Sith Raid and all future Raid Bosses do not have continuing issues with the Expose ability. The old raids are affected somewhat, however, being nearly 2+ years old, they are pretty well beatable without Expose being the sole strategy.

    Thanks for the feedback and thoughts. We'll keep working to improve both communication and meeting expectations as we move forward.

    Cheers,

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Wow! A whole 5 percent! How kind of you. That sure eases the pain of a 50 percent damage nerf!
  • Azza
    245 posts Member
    •[CHANGE] The Expose debuff has been reduced from 0.0004 of Raid Boss health to 0.0002 of Raid Boss health across all raids. •Testing indicates Rey (Jedi Training) remains one of the most effective squads in the Sith Triumvirate Raid in spite of the 50% reduction in damage from Expose.

    Thank you for your explanation. Now, I only have one question:

    The people who are testing now, are they the same that tested the raid before release? Cause you know, they didn't see JTR coming...I can understand STH, but JTR...
  • @CG_RyDiggs -- is that event calendar update accurate that JTRey comes back in 3 days?
  • Quick, someone lend an ally that grants foresight before the next major content is drawn up!
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Testing indicates Rey (Jedi Training) remains one of the most effective squads in the Sith Triumvirate Raid...
    Our perspective is that an overwhelming single-solve undercuts what makes the game interesting, and presents a threat to the future of the game.

    I would just like to point out that, if you also been actively tracking damage output, you undoubtedly realize that the two quotes above are in direct opposition to one another. JTRey IS the single-solve undercut for the Sith Raid. And, despite the slight nerf, JTRey teams are still 5 times more effective in dealing damage than any other team, regardless of RNG, strategy or synergies.

    And, if you have been tracking player and guild behavior, as you claim, you know this to be true by virtue of the fact that many guilds and guild alliances are shuffling players to maximize the number of JTRey teams per guild.

    Please stop trying to pay lip service to the "many strategies" and "lively theorycrafting" nonsense when you have intentionally set up a "have" and "have not" system designed to punish players who did not panic farm JTRey.





    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Get rid of the stacking tenacity and just make the bosses all immune to tmr. You'll still get the desired result of everyone having to attack.

    The massive tenacity just makes the abilities of every toon useless. It's not fun. It's like hacking down one giant big tree.
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