[Dev Post] Matchmaking clarification post: 3/15

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CG_RyDiggs
536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
edited March 2018
Hello Territory Warriors,

We understand recent Territory Wars had guilds matched up at a wider ranges than design intended. As an appreciation and recognition for all the great player feedback and patience as we continue to improve the game:

We will be distributing 500 Crystals to all players on 3/16 in their inbox
Details to be posted in the Game Update section of the forums.

DETAILS

We have made some improvements to the matchmaking system in this week’s server update. Starting with this weekend’s Territory War, you should be seeing results closer to the original design intent.

In order to help you understand that intent, here are some additional details about the system.

Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
  • The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
  • The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.

To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.

As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar.

Comparing Guild Galactic Power (GP), Active GP, or # of participants can be misleading.

Rewards are determined solely by Active GP of the participants. Active GP refers to the total Guild Galactic Power of the guild at the time that each person has joined the Territory War. Galactic Power is locked at that point to ensure that matchmaking is calculated off a fixed number and can’t be drastically changed over the course of the Territory War.

Finally, to promote a variety of opponents, we seek to avoid matching with recently fought opponents, however this can still happen if opponents meeting the above criteria are sparse.

Thank you all for your great feedback as we continue to improve the Territory Wars feature. As with all areas of the game, we will continue to monitor the feature to ensure it is meeting target design goals.


CG_RyDiggs
Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
Post edited by CG_RyDiggs on

Replies

  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    FAQ:
    • Q: How do you identify the strongest squads?
      A: We're not going to divulge that algorithm.
    • Q: When do you make this calculation?
      A: Currently, as of this post:
      Immediately after the 'Sign up Phase' we take a snap shot of ALL rosters in the Territory War.
      We use those 'snap shots' for the Territory War which locks all rosters for use in the war.
      We use the matchmaking algorithm.
      We begin the 'set defense' phase.
      This whole process takes a few seconds across the game, so you don't see it happen. You generally only see the defense phase start up.
    • Q: How does this affect upper tier guilds and deeper defensive squad requirements?
      A: Whether or not guilds are in the upper tier of matchmaking has nothing to do with their reward tier.
      There is a range of upper tiers in matchmaking that spans multiple uppper reward tiers that all qualify for the deeper defensive squad requirements.
      You could be in Reward Tier 2 or 3 and be in a TW that uses the deeper defensive squad requirements. It depends largely on your matchmaking calculation which is separate from reward tier.
    • Q: Does this mean our guild won't face higher reward tier guilds?
      A: No. Matchmaking does not consider reward tiers, only your guild's squads for the match making algorithm.
      Example: your guild is reward tier 4 and your matchmaking strength calculation is high, you could face a guild who is at reward tier 5 but low matchmaking strength.
      It's not common (for the vast majority of the game) but it can and likely will happen from time to time.
      Again, this is because Matchmaking strength does not consider Reward Tier at all.
    Post edited by CG_RyDiggs on
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • So pretty much you guys are dissecting our rosters and taking basic teams that are used throughout the game. Adding our guilds up based on this and finding a comparable enemy
  • So pretty much you guys are dissecting our rosters and taking basic teams that are used throughout the game. Adding our guilds up based on this and finding a comparable enemy

    BINGO, /whew I wasn't sure it would be clear. Tks Sharpes!
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Sparrow
    516 posts Member
    From my perspective the only thing we have ever found that matters is the quantity of gear 11 and gear 12 characters across both guilds as a whole. If that number is close it's usually a close matchup, if there is a big difference it's a blow out.

    Because bottom line is gear 10 toons don't do well against gear 11/12 toons. It's too big a gap.

    For lower power guilds I would imagine the number of gear 9/10 toons would matter, but if your 100 million GP or more the number of gear 11/12 toons is literally the only thing that matters in matchmaking.
  • We missed out on two opportunities for extra zeta mats and we only get 500 crystals for the inconvenience?

    Where are the Chewie shards? (and the zetas)
  • Ely
    161 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    From Carries post @CG_RyDiggs

    Increasing Defensive Squads for Top Guilds – As top Guilds have so many squads, the average of four defensive squads per players isn’t allowing them to fully demonstrate the strength of their rosters, is not challenging them, and can lead to ties. We’ve increased the number of defensive squads required per person at the top tier of play.


    What can you tell us ? 100 extra teams to battle and defend has killed some of the fun for me. It's a lot.
    Post edited by Ely on
  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    Sparrow wrote: »
    From my perspective the only thing we have ever found that matters is the quantity of gear 11 and gear 12 characters across both guilds as a whole. If that number is close it's usually a close matchup, if there is a big difference it's a blow out.

    Because bottom line is gear 10 toons don't do well against gear 11/12 toons. It's too big a gap.

    For lower power guilds I would imagine the number of gear 9/10 toons would matter, but if your 100 million GP or more the number of gear 11/12 toons is literally the only thing that matters in matchmaking.

    As I said above, I won't say how we come to the number, but we want to confirm that we're not calculating Active GP (which can have low impact characters).

    Adding a smiley to not be so dismissive :)
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Did i understand the logic of the matchmaking wrongly?:
    Does the matchmaking assign a value based on only the strongest characters a participant has? I this case, if a whale has a full roster of 145 gear 12 characters, will the strength of this player be based on only a (e.g.10%) subset of the strongest characters and ignoring the rest?
  • Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    Did i understand the logic of the matchmaking wrongly?:
    Does the matchmaking assign a value based on only the strongest characters a participant has? I this case, if a whale has a full roster of 145 gear 12 characters, will the strength of this player be based on only a (e.g.10%) subset of the strongest characters and ignoring the rest?

    Unfortunately, I won't answer that question, per my FAQ above:

    Q: How do you identify the strongest squads?
    A: We're not going to divulge that algorithm.

    Apologies, but we're trying to confirm why players see the ranges they do, not explain the algorithm itself.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • kello_511
    1073 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Jed_Eye
    69 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tiers are?
  • kello_511
    1073 posts Member
    I’m looking forward to the change!
    Last week, we had one battle where we far outmatched (and got blown out of the water) followed by a war where we severely outmatched our opponent (by 30M GP) and they only managed to clear 3 of our teams in total.
    Neither experience was much fun. The best territory wars we have had were the ones that were more evenly matched and came right to the wire, win or lose.
  • Can something be done about battling across different reward tiers. If two matched guilds aren't in the same tier, perhaps they should both get the rewards of the higher tier.
  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tires are?

    Unfortunately, I can't because it's a band of the matchmaking algorithm. However it is definitely UPPER guilds of the game, where they would be expected able to field deep defenses. Again, matchmaking does NOT have tiers.

    Matchmaking has matches.
    Rewards have tiers.

    I hope that clarifies :)
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Can something be done about battling across different reward tiers. If two matched guilds aren't in the same tier, perhaps they should both get the rewards of the higher tier.

    That is going to happen no matter what if two reward tiers are close. This is because the Reward tiers are not considered in matchmaking.

    HOWEVER, as you saw, we're not expecting it to go as wide as it did recently.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    I’m looking forward to the change!
    Last week, we had one battle where we far outmatched (and got blown out of the water) followed by a war where we severely outmatched our opponent (by 30M GP) and they only managed to clear 3 of our teams in total.
    Neither experience was much fun. The best territory wars we have had were the ones that were more evenly matched and came right to the wire, win or lose.

    This is exactly what we're trying to avoid. We hope so too!
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tires are?

    Unfortunately, I can't because it's a band of the matchmaking algorithm. However it is definitely UPPER guilds of the game, where they would be expected able to field deep defenses. Again, matchmaking does NOT have tiers.

    Matchmaking has matches.
    Rewards have tiers.

    I hope that clarifies :)

    What is you definition of upper guilds? That clarification may be helpful.

    Last two tws my guild had 24 and then 29. This new with raid show us I'm not in a top guild.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tires are?

    Unfortunately, I can't because it's a band of the matchmaking algorithm. However it is definitely UPPER guilds of the game, where they would be expected able to field deep defenses. Again, matchmaking does NOT have tiers.

    Matchmaking has matches.
    Rewards have tiers.

    I hope that clarifies :)
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tires are?

    Unfortunately, I can't because it's a band of the matchmaking algorithm. However it is definitely UPPER guilds of the game, where they would be expected able to field deep defenses. Again, matchmaking does NOT have tiers.

    Matchmaking has matches.
    Rewards have tiers.

    I hope that clarifies :)

    SO basically What range of active GP tiers will have to donate more than 25 squads in a territory? Does the upper tier means 100 mil GP + Active GP tiers or 120mil GP+ Active GP tiers?
  • Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Jed_Eye wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Remember, reward tier has NOTHING to do with matchmaking. We have a bandwidth of upper tiers of matchmaking that have the deep defenses. It has nothing to do with rewards tiers.

    Can you give us the criteria for these additional teams. And what the tires are?

    Unfortunately, I can't because it's a band of the matchmaking algorithm. However it is definitely UPPER guilds of the game, where they would be expected able to field deep defenses. Again, matchmaking does NOT have tiers.

    Matchmaking has matches.
    Rewards have tiers.

    I hope that clarifies :)

    What is you definition of upper guilds? That clarification may be helpful.

    Last two tws my guild had 24 and then 29. This new with raid show us I'm not in a top guild.

    Again, unfortunately, I can't give you a number that would not divulge the algorithm. :(

    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Thank you all for the great FAQ questions. I answered what I could, but we are going to have some parts that are 'mystery'. I hope it still helps!

    I'm heading out for the night. I'll check in again tomorrow.

    TTYL!


    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Kudos for a well done thread!
  • Of the most recent TWs, my guild lost the first and won the second. 500 crystals sounds good, so I look forward to when they arrive - thank you! :)
  • Thanks for the crystals and the replies,even if they were cryptic and disingenuous. I don't see how giving one number could possibly give away a complex algorithm.

    Any way you could now answer why the new raid rewards are not given like tw and tb... This raid requires as much teamwork as those modes. So why should someone get the short end of the stick for not making the same dmg numbers.
  • Thank you very much for the Information. This also clarifies some questions that were hanging around independent of the matchmaking issues that appeared recently (Reward-Tier != Matchmaking Tier)
  • I'm personally a fan of facing opponents 30m GP above or below. Either way basically all I have to do is set defense and get on with my life.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Ely wrote: »
    The 35 teams per territory, is that what we all just automatically get now if 50 members join?

    I'm not sure what your asking. My apologies.

    We were under the impression that the additional teams (changed from 25 to 30 or even 35 per zone) was intended for guilds at the highest tier (160M + GP). However it seems that the change affected a much larger spectrum of guilds. Was this intended?

    Ahh, thank you.
    The 'deepening' of defensive squad assignments was for upper tiers. Not just the top reward tier.

    Can you confirm this is what was intended @CG_RyDiggs ? This is the exact quote from the original announcement about the change:
    “Increasing Defensive Squads for Top Guilds: As top Guilds have so many squads, the average of 4 defensive squads per player isn’t allowing them to fully demonstrate the strength of their rosters. To remedy, the average defensive squads will scale up to ~6 per player if both participants are in the highest active GP tier.”

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/158998/version-update-2-28-2018-quality-of-life

    My guild is not in the highest reward tier and we are now expected to set 6 defensive teams per player. Seems like either the original announcement was wrong or it’s currently bugged.
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