Are potency mods worth anything?

Tiggus
714 posts Member
1 - In PvP (Arena / TW): the potency vs tenacity check for a debuff is basically all or nothing:
  • Tenacity up = resist 100%
  • Normal case = resist 15%, reason being that the base potency of debuff-giving toons is always comfortably higher than the base tenacity of any toon, and tenacity mods are too weak to tweak it in any way.

Side note: every new debuff introduced lately are not actually debuffs, and potency has no effect on them (fracture, Rey's healing immunity, expose or TM reduction, Sabine's, Sion's,...). They often trigger on crit, so crit-chance is the new potency.

2 - In Raids:
Potency mods used to be critical for some teams to beat the Rancor (long ago, e.g. Teebo), or the AAT (more recently, e.g. Vader's DoTs-fest), but today's AAT-wrecking teams don't rely much on potency anymore (it's all about crit chance).
In the Sith Raid, tenacity has been boosted so much that there is simply no way mods can bridge the gap.

Soooo... Can I just ditch all my potency mods (except for the very special case of the Bounty Hunters)?
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Replies

  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    It depends on the team and character mechanics and bases stats, just as it always has. Nothing has changed.

    JTR teams do not need potency, bcz their exposes are based on crit.

    zFinn teams on the other hand do need potency and the team will not work against tenacity up. But this team is mainly PVE for certain phases of raids and territory battles, and yes u need potency.

    Palp and Vader need potency even though palp lead gives potency because you want to land as many debuffs and stuns as possible.

    CLS teams usually do not need potency because CLS has +40% from his skills, but Han Solo does need potency to remove turn meter and stun because his base potency is extremely low (like 15%).

    CLS and han solo when facing palp lead could use potency now more than ever bcz palp reduces their potency and if you miss a buff immunity or a stun u will cry. Against a double tank palp team where you have to buff immunity 1 tank and fracture the other, it could cost you the match of buff immunity diesnt stick.

    DN does not need potency because his skills do not do a potency check.
  • You can debuff DN in the Sith raid ... so no potency is not worthless. You just need to figure out ways to stack it either by combining leaders + mods + uniques + BB8 secret intel + Yoda Master Training, toons that give potency up (Marauder, Bodhi)...etc.
  • Waqui
    4998 posts Member
    Bounty hunters rely heavily on potency in their special missions and combat mission in dark side territory battle.
  • I find myself farming potency mods quite often now. The one to not pick, IMO, would be tenacity. A Game Changer (I think mobile gamer) did. Video about the two mod types a few months ago.
  • Tiggus
    714 posts Member
    Mobewan wrote: »
    zFinn teams on the other hand do need potency and the team will not work against tenacity up. But this team is mainly PVE for certain phases of raids and territory battles, and yes u need potency.
    True for the AAT, you need to stack a whole lot of potency from mods for the exposes to stick. But I don't use them there anymore because they're too slow and I have to do the battle 100% manual (which means by the time it's over, there's a good chance the raid is over for more than 1h and I missed it).

    I'm not sure about Territory Battles, I don't think the snowtroopers have that much tenacity. I'll try.
    Mobewan wrote: »
    Palp and Vader need potency even though palp lead gives potency because you want to land as many debuffs and stuns as possible.
    Not true, they're fine with their basis potency (30-50%) + Palp's bonus (+35%). I run them in Arena without potency mods and never see any "resist" (well, I do, but probably the basis 15%). That 24% potency cross there is 23.5% protection you just lost (and same with +10% from set = 5% health, agreed that's negligible).
    Mobewan wrote: »
    CLS teams usually do not need potency because CLS has +40% from his skills, but Han Solo does need potency to remove turn meter and stun because his base potency is extremely low (like 15%).
    CLS and han solo when facing palp lead could use potency now more than ever bcz palp reduces their potency and if you miss a buff immunity or a stun u will cry. Against a double tank palp team where you have to buff immunity 1 tank and fracture the other, it could cost you the match of buff immunity diesnt stick.
    Even if they fight a Palp team in Arena and assuming Han's potency drops to 0, yes Han's effects (except the initial stun, can't resist) would fail about twice as much (up from 15% to ~30%). CLS will be just fine.
    However, in order to compensate those -35%, you need a cross and a set, and that much health + protection lost might mean Han is dead by the second time he would have used his stun hit anyway.

    You can debuff DN in the Sith raid ...
    I have seen a debuff (from Rey I think) land once in 20-30 times. I think you need a ridiculously high potency from mods to see some actual effect. I haven't tried Palp + Vader to see whether DoTs do stick.
    Somehow I think thermal detonators did stick more than average (that means still not a lot), with my Zam's potency at around 80%
    Waqui wrote: »
    Bounty hunters rely heavily on potency in their special missions and combat mission in dark side territory battle.
    Yes and with Boba's leadership, potency = max health for them, so definitely potency mods are a good choice for them.
    Range1974 wrote: »
    I find myself farming potency mods quite often now. The one to not pick, IMO, would be tenacity. A Game Changer (I think mobile gamer) did. Video about the two mod types a few months ago.
    Yes tenacity mods are useless. I tried bringing the tenacity of some toon in Arena to 100% in the past, he was stunned/shocked/... just as much as everyone else. The only exception I know is Magmatrooper under Thrawn lead for the Sith Raid.
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  • Anrath
    216 posts Member
    I think you need 15+% more Tenacity on your toon (stats page plus ability modifications) then the attacking toons potency (stats page plus ability modifications) to see any benefit. Else you will just get the base 15% resist chance.

    So if people in arena stop using potency mods/crosses, then toons with tenacity mods/crosses will become useful again. I can get Rex to near 100% tenacity, so vs an EP lead without potency mods/crosses that might give Rex about a 30% resist chance. But EP (and CLS & JTR) are special cases.
  • R2D2 is another dude that benefits from potency. Dem stuns!
  • Snake2
    1334 posts Member
    Yeah, they are fairly un useful in general. Maybe second only to offense mods in the least useful category. But my g8 zfinn team sure likes them for tb, so they do have niche uses.

    Also, hi tiggus! Long time no see =)
  • Yes, potency mods have tons of uses. They are probably 2nd behind Speed as far as most useful overall set. Tons of characters/factions really need a potency boost over a bit more health or Crit Chance.
  • TVF
    10323 posts Member
    Snake2 wrote: »
    Yeah, they are fairly un useful in general. Maybe second only to offense mods in the least useful category.
    Yes, potency mods have tons of uses. They are probably 2nd behind Speed as far as most useful overall set.

    Lol.

    (FTR i agree they are useful.)
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  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Range1974 wrote: »
    I find myself farming potency mods quite often now. The one to not pick, IMO, would be tenacity. A Game Changer (I think mobile gamer) did. Video about the two mod types a few months ago.

    You are quite wrong that tenacity is useless. Even warrior himself corrected that statement in another video.

    A tenacity cross might be negated against an opponent with very high potency.

    But tenacity always has its place in reducing debuffs by most characters, who do not have exremely high potency.

    Two examples:

    Arena:
    EP lead reduces rebel potency making it harder for han to land stuns. It you put a tencity cross on top of that ep lead bonus, it will be really hard for buff immunity or stun to land.

    Sith Raid:
    Phase 1 dn debuffs you when you attack with basic. However, a tenacity cross can greatly help reduce the number of debuffs on you. Combine that with hermit yoda master training tenacity bonus and its a home run. Yodas buff alone works half the time to resist debuffs. The tenacity cross does the rest. Characters with very high natural tenacity may not need the tenacity cross with masters training, but most do.
  • Huatimus
    3561 posts Member
    It's a fringe case but Zidious can land dots on Heroic Sith P1 as long as he is the 1st hit and has some Potency mods. Just need to time him to attack right after DN attacks.

    I'd also rather mod for Potency as it'll help in Raids and occasionally against the random Arena opponent who uses a Tenacity cross with high Speed secondary.

    Tenacity mods definitely are not worth farming though. In your quest for mods with speed secondaries, you'll most definitely come across some Tenacity crosses and occasional Tenacity Set mods from mod shop. That will be more than sufficient for those fringe cases where you need to mod 1 character for higher Tenacity i.e. Magma Trooper in Sith Raid.
  • Most people don't know what they're talking about when they say someone needs potency. You seem to get it.
    So, yes they're mostly worthless on everyone. The only viable potency mods I can think of are:
    1. Tarkin / 2. zFinn vs Tank Raid / 3. Bounty Hunters
  • Tiggus
    714 posts Member
    I'm still unconvinced potency mods are useful except for a handful of specific characters. So that shrinks the useful diversity of mods to really not a lot then.

    About 90% of my collection should be modded as:
    Main:
    - Arrow = Speed
    - Circle = Protection
    - Cross = Protection
    - Triangle = Protection (or Crit Damage for a bunch of heavy hitters)

    Sets:
    - Speed for those guys where just 1 extra speed might mean you go first and increase your odds of winning by the boatload
    - Crit Damage for all attackers (perhaps Offense)
    - Irrelevant for anything else


    ... And so much for theocrafting, and writing clever guides on what to use where...

    Yes, potency mods have tons of uses. They are probably 2nd behind Speed as far as most useful overall set. Tons of characters/factions really need a potency boost over a bit more health or Crit Chance.
    I think Crit Damage and Speed are the only useful mod sets. The rest is decoration, and potency is mostly useless decoration.
    The main stat on the cross should almost always be Protection. as opposed to that, Potency just reduces the prot of your toon by 23% for no proven benefit.
    Mobewan wrote: »
    Arena:
    EP lead reduces rebel potency making it harder for han to land stuns. It you put a tencity cross on top of that ep lead bonus, it will be really hard for buff immunity or stun to land.
    If you give a tenacity cross to EP, it's guaranteed he won't resist anything: he'll be dead by turn 2.
    I wrote a thread here some time ago where I experimented in Arena with a high tenacity mods (88%), with absolutely no effect at all. Please show me a screenshot or a video where CLS consistently fails to debuff Empire toons?
    Mobewan wrote: »
    Sith Raid:
    Phase 1 dn debuffs you when you attack with basic. However, a tenacity cross can greatly help reduce the number of debuffs on you. Combine that with hermit yoda master training tenacity bonus and its a home run. Yodas buff alone works half the time to resist debuffs. The tenacity cross does the rest. Characters with very high natural tenacity may not need the tenacity cross with masters training, but most do.

    He's only applying defense down no? I haven't tried Hermit Yoda, but yes if that manages to reliably resist it, it's a nice niche usage then.

    @Drazz127 Hehe, yes it seems. Add to your list Sidious (max health = potency, that's a nice way of gaining cheap health.

    @Snake2 Hey, indeed it's been some time... Still enjoying the game I see! Say hi to the rest of the crew for me, if you're still with them!

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  • TVF
    10323 posts Member
    How does potency have no proven benefit? Unless you run no toons that debuff, I don't know what you're talking about.
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  • leef
    11922 posts Member
    potency is useless more often than (some) players realize. Other than that, it has it's uses.
    anyway, debuffing > resisting.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    @Tiggus
    I was speaking specifically about a palp lead team facing rebels....ehich is where palp reduces rebel potemcy. Combine that scenario with a tenacity cross and you will resist alot more than you think.

    When i was using titans against all these new palp teams, my han solo couldnt land his stuns at all even though he has a potency cross. The same thing with cls special, buff immunity, which is so important against palp teams with 2 tanks to buff immunity one tank amd fracture the other. However, cls has higher natural potency so his debuffs land better.

    As a result, in my palp lead team, i dont mind having a tenacit6 cross on my 2 tanks to help prevent them from getting buff immunity or stun or other debuffs.
  • TVF
    10323 posts Member
    It must be pointed out that arena is only one portion of the game. Even if potency is not useful to your arena squad, it doesn't mean it isn't useful to other squads in other parts of the game, or even your arena squad in other parts of the game.
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  • VonZant
    2879 posts Member
    Magmatrooper, even outside of sith raid, should always be modded with tenacity. Its kinda his thing and makes him much stronger as he can use his grenade almost twice as often.
  • Tiggus
    714 posts Member
    @Mobewan Ok I can believe that the -35% potency from Palpatine lead brings it back to a level where mods can for a change make a difference, as you say. In that particular case yes, there is a race between tenacity on one side and potency on the other.

    But it's still a very specific case. I often use a Palpatine lead squad in Arena now, but have no incentive to boost tenacity as a means to protect against CLS rebels, which is almost non-existent on my shard. Again, putting a tenacity cross on my tank would mean losing 24% protection, which is a lot, against all the other teams (3 tenacity sets would be OK though, as the alternative, 3 defence or health sets, doesn't bring much either).

    @VonZant Agreed, I think that Magmatrooper is the only example of a toon that would generally be modded with tenacity.
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  • I use Potency on Old Daka because her 1 has a 70% stun chance
  • VonZant
    2879 posts Member
    @Tiggus I think Visas Mar should have a tenacity cross + 1 or 2 tenacity sets as her assist ability only works as long as she is not debuffed. And as mentioned the other Niche case would be grand master yoda led Jedi (perhaps with Visas Mar on their team). Stack the jedi with Tenacity cross pluse 1 or two sets and bring Aayla, Ezra, Healer + one other damage (maybe fisto even) and they could attack Nihilus non-stop because of turn meter gain from Yoda leader. Like magmatrooper sorta.

    Not that anyone uses them, but perhaps a jedi team can find a home in Nihlus phases. ;)
  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @Tiggus
    Yes, the tenacity cross on a palp team tank facing rebels is argueable. Its an option though. Cls cant beat a 2 tank palp team so easily if buff immunity on one tank is resisted.

    The option i am leaning towards would be a tenacity cross on darth nihlis where you have a better chance of not getting stun locked.

    Most teams would put extra potency cross on vader and palp for maximizing debuffs.

    But the point we agree on is that the potency or tenacity cross is useful for a very few toons in arena, but combined with another buff or debuff special it can make a difference for arena and raids.

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