[Feedback] Last update broke everything about the Sith team in my opinion

Replies

  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Just can’t help yourself....have to be passive aggressive. You guys created this mess. Please have some thicker skin. Your continued responses like the don’t “PROMOTE the community and the game.”


    I was being honest. I will think about this. I do little else BUT think about this. If you saw me grinning, nodding and contemplating you would understand.

    Unfortunately, text doesn't do justice, and I can't do corporate robot well, nor do I think it would serve the community here.

    SO, we're stuck with an implication that needs to be believed; I love this community, this game, and the PASSIONATE players, like the OP who would take the time to go to a forum, write something HOPING to affect a game they love so much.

    If I go to far, I'll correct. I expect the same of my community.

    If my current posts are not promoting the game, then We (Capital Games), I (Ryan Thomas) and You (the community) will keep talking and dialog until we do.

    Because this game is LONGTERM, and so am I. I really hope you will be to, to help us continue to nurture and grow a healthy thriving community.

    TTYL!
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Tekka wrote: »
    1.Community: a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.
    "the sense of community that organized religion can provide"
    Not predicated on location.

    1. A group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
    2. A group of people living together and practising common ownership.
    3. A particular area or place considered together with its inhabitants.
    4. The people of a district or country considered collectively, especially in the context of social values and responsibilities; society.
    5. Denoting a worker or resource designed to serve the people of a particular area.
    6. A group of interdependent plants or animals growing or living together in natural conditions or occupying a specified habitat.
    7. The condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common.
    8. Joint ownership or liability.

    Well done, you found the one definition which is not & chose to ignore the 6 that are, including its primary definition.
    But, OK, using your misappropriated definition, what shared attitudes, interests or goals do you share with the people who you claim provide goods and services to you so are part of your community, or anyone else who you simply interact with for that matter?
    What shared attitude, interest or goal do you share with the mods?
    Do you even know what any of these people's goals or interests are?
    Tekka wrote: »
    If you do not feel the way I suggested, that he “doesn’t have the right to feel like part of the community (which was a statement) what does your statement mean? “Also got to love how he says "WE as a community". As if he's an actual part of this community” (the original post I was responding to)
    I can only suggest that you read it properly. "The community" is a different statement to "a community".
    Tekka wrote: »
    3. Answer: sometimes. If you think of America as a community (I do) or any nation or organization that has tiered membership, there are a litany of examples available. The leadership of an organization makes regulations that affect the community in general, but not the leadership in particular. I am bound by laws that do not affect me personally, yet I consider myself to be a part of the community to which those laws apply. For example, a home owners association says you have to clean up after your pet, I don’t own a pet. That rule does not affect me directly, but it does not mean I’m not part of the homeowners association.

    But, by your earlier definition it was anyone that you interacted with?
    Then you are not part of the community of pet owners in your location. The rule would affect you directly if someone who wasn't part of the community didn't follow it and you had to walk in dog faeces.
    An association is not automatically a community. How many people live in the area that aren't a member of the association?
    No "laws" apply to a community. They apply to a nation or society.
    The leadership of an organisation are not a part of the workforce community which their decisions affect.
    If the community are affected by their decision but they are not, then they are indisputable not part of the community, otherwise they would be affected in the same way as everyone else who is.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Off to re-education camp for the OP....War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. And CG welcomes open dialog and constructive criticism...

    You have my attention, what can I clarify for ya?

    RT

    Want feedback?

    Make the forums have less sections... atm it is not easy for the user at Hand. It’s difficult to find what you want and not easy for readers to get what they want

    I only see 3-4 sections on the forums needed: staff announcements, general, character discussion, ship discussion
  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    Whut wrote: »
    That's the thing, if you see the same question posted 50 times, answering it is the best way to stop that from rising to 200 & people becoming more & more frustrated by being ignored.
    It's not about having a dialogue or learning to, it's about giving a straight answer to the 50 versions of the same question, rather than side-stepping.
    People will gain some respect for the former, but lose any for the latter. Lost respect or broken trust is harder to regain than starting with none & earning some.

    Sorry, I just can't help myself.

    There is a difference between me NOT answering and you NOT getting the answer you want or expect.

    Many times my answer is, I cannot say. Not I don't know, but I cannot say.

    Going forward, we all need that to be an acceptable answer, because often, it will be the only answer.

    I and the studio don't enjoy disappointing players, but we have rules, guidelines and requirements that necessitate such responses.

    So, I'm not saying I answer EVERY question. I simply cannot do that, so let's set that aside.

    If 200 people are asking the same question... it is VERY likely I answered it, but the answer is not one that is accepted.

    You can 'not accept it' but that doesn't change the answer.

    I'm not sure what we can do culturally to change that missed expectation. Thoughts?

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Steve519
    12 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    @Tromedlov13 thank you for voicing your opinion. Consider this your warning regarding directing fellow players to not invest time or energy in the game.

    Telling players they should NOT invest time or energy in the game does not help the game, and thus does not support the game you love so much!

    Examples of corrections below:
    Was sitting easily between 34-40 with Sith team.

    You bring out the latest update and now that team can't beat CUP as a stand alone toon.

    Hyperbolic, but you're welcome to your sensational opinion here :smile:
    The team never gets a crti and hits like a wet noodle.

    More hyperbole, colorful and evocative but not really fact based per se. You could be a great politician! (joking!)
    What did you do.

    I think this is a question but you wrote as a sentence. Assuming it is a question, we were very clear about the changes in our update. I'll link it here for you: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162743/content-update-3-13-2018#latest

    Also, if you want to talk about character experiences, we have a whole section here to discuss facts and relay data with your fellow players in hopes of moving out of hyperbole and into fact feedback. You don't have to join, but you're always welcome to!
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/characters-and-strategy
    I'm going back to RJT.
    Sounds like a great plan for you. If you want to talk about theorycrafting and data feedback with fellow gamers about the sith raid, come over here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/territorywars

    We're having a pretty lively discussion.
    Don't invest in any Sith especially Sion.

    OK, this is where your frustration spills over into actively working against the forums and the game, and where I need to step in.

    If YOU don't like it, and YOU have data you want to share why it could be improved or why other characters might be more effective, YOU are free to share your data and thoughts.

    Actively undermining the game based on your feelings, will ... undermine the game and then... you won't have a game. Do you see why we chose to protect the long term benefit of the game?

    I invite you to edit your comments to be more in line with the goal of these forums, which is to promote the game, even with critical feedback ;)
    Regards

    And best regards to YOU! Have a GREAT weekend!

    CG_RyDiggs
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    @Tromedlov13 thank you for voicing your opinion. Consider this your warning regarding directing fellow players to not invest time or energy in the game.

    Telling players they should NOT invest time or energy in the game does not help the game, and thus does not support the game you love so much!

    Examples of corrections below:
    Was sitting easily between 34-40 with Sith team.

    You bring out the latest update and now that team can't beat CUP as a stand alone toon.

    Hyperbolic, but you're welcome to your sensational opinion here :smile:
    The team never gets a crti and hits like a wet noodle.

    More hyperbole, colorful and evocative but not really fact based per se. You could be a great politician! (joking!)
    What did you do.

    I think this is a question but you wrote as a sentence. Assuming it is a question, we were very clear about the changes in our update. I'll link it here for you: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162743/content-update-3-13-2018#latest

    Also, if you want to talk about character experiences, we have a whole section here to discuss facts and relay data with your fellow players in hopes of moving out of hyperbole and into fact feedback. You don't have to join, but you're always welcome to!
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/characters-and-strategy
    I'm going back to RJT.
    Sounds like a great plan for you. If you want to talk about theorycrafting and data feedback with fellow gamers about the sith raid, come over here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/territorywars

    We're having a pretty lively discussion.
    Don't invest in any Sith especially Sion.

    OK, this is where your frustration spills over into actively working against the forums and the game, and where I need to step in.

    If YOU don't like it, and YOU have data you want to share why it could be improved or why other characters might be more effective, YOU are free to share your data and thoughts.

    Actively undermining the game based on your feelings, will ... undermine the game and then... you won't have a game. Do you see why we chose to protect the long term benefit of the game?

    I invite you to edit your comments to be more in line with the goal of these forums, which is to promote the game, even with critical feedback ;)
    Regards

    And best regards to YOU! Have a GREAT weekend!

    CG_RyDiggs

    Wow, I hope hire ups at EA see your reply and see what the communities feedback is on it. I guess they can decide if that is the image they want representatives of their companies displaying.

    *edit: imagine to image
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Off to re-education camp for the OP....War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. And CG welcomes open dialog and constructive criticism...

    You have my attention, what can I clarify for ya?

    RT

    Want feedback?

    Make the forums have less sections... atm it is not easy for the user at Hand. It’s difficult to find what you want and not easy for readers to get what they want

    I only see 3-4 sections on the forums needed: staff announcements, general, character discussion, ship discussion

    You and I are 100% agreed.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Brownie wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?

    We do not. I do not.

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • I want a zeta for this nonsense.
  • Steve519 wrote: »

    Wow, I hope hire ups at EA see your reply and see what the communities feedback is on it. I guess they can decide if that is the imagine they want representatives of their companies displaying.

    Heya @Steve519,

    I wrote multiple responses but all seemed contrived or apologetic, neither of which are my intent for a reply. I'll try this, because I want you to know you are heard and that your implied wishes are understood, without responding in kind because I wish you the best:

    I see that you're not happy with the dialog and wish it to change/end. I'll work to improve, and am confident we can as a community.

    Thanks!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • kello_511
    1648 posts Member
    There are a few facts that are at play here:

    -Sion’s zeta WAS broken (but has since been fixed)
    -other characters (including sith, like savage) have zetas that aren’t working correctly either.
    -Some characters who didn’t work as intended remained broken for months/years (Teebo for example)

    I believe OP wasn’t aware of the fact that Sion has been fixed. I read his “don’t invest” comment to be a warning that the character isn’t working as intended, which I think is a fair warning (admittedly it was phrased poorly, due to OPs frustration).

    So which is more damaging to the long term health of this game?

    1. Someone comes on the forums to warn players that this character (and others who synergies with him) are not currently working as intended, so anyone considering spending money on them should be aware before they “invest” in them.

    OR

    2. Players spend hundreds (maybe thousands?) of dollars and rare zeta materials only to find out afterwards that the character doesn’t work as intended?

    My suggestion is that #2 is much worse for the long term health of the game, as it could discourage those players from spending anymore (I would personally be livid about that).

    I understand the policy and the importance of policing it, and I have seen plenty of posts on this forum that clearly were in clear violation of that policy. In my opinion, this post did not fall into that category so cleanly. Not everyone reads the bugs section, so it’s a post that warns players “before you decide to spend money on this character, you should know that some parts of it aren’t working properly”.

    What’s gotten lost in the ensuing discussion is:
    -Sion is now fixed
    -other bugs have been reported and are actively being resolved (I assume)

    Those 2 points along with a gentle reminder to the OP about his tone probably would have been the best course of action in this case.
    I understand the desire to “make an example” out of someone, but this post may have been a poor choice for that purpose.
  • Jeric
    271 posts Member
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Jeric wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs you know, even when a customer is wrong, one should probably refrain from calling the customer hyperbolic, especially in a passive aggressive manner, and certainly in public. You seem to be falling into that unfortunate mindset that software is self perpetuating, a pervasive view in software development, but when it is driven by customers this view can cause an erosion of customer service. You are a public voice and face of Capital Games, and while I appreciate and understand your loyalty to the product, there is a level of self discipline that comes with the territory that seems absent in some of your comments.

    In the players experience, the Sith faction seems to be impacted negatively. His frustration a led to a venting post in which he suggested one not invest in a specific character. The appropriate response is to acknowledge with a blameless apology, ask a few probing questions, and attempt to diffuse the anger. Even if it doesn't work with the OP, you have the nameless readers of this topic who would read this type of reply and that professionalism would inform their opinion. Remember, when you engage a customer publicly, you are indirectly engaging every customer that witnesses the interaction. Better to take the high road than self-indulgence.

    Posts like this come across as pompous and condescending to me. Why wouldn't you share this with him in a DM? You accuse him of what I interprete as public shaming and then go on to shame him in public.

    Folks on this forum have been clamoring for more communication and the instant it shows up the response is that it's not the type of communication we like.

    I understand what you're saying. There are ways to diffuse tense situations and ways to appease folks without committing to anything. The challenge in Internet forums seems to be that the bar is set impossibly high and falling short of the unachievable expectations is tantamount to not caring about your customers.

    @CG_RyDiggs is making an effort. Let's not scare him off.

    I would not have made the post I did if it were in response to another member. I did make an effort to make the distinction between player and company representative. You are right that communication is critical, but it should not be quantity that we clamor for, right? Woild it be more accurate to say that we mostly want transparent and effective communication?

    I want Capital Games to succeed, and that includes the employees assigned to the thankless role of community interaction. I have seen the community unfairly criticisize the development team, and I've seen ineffective communication from CG. So far two of my posts have been to offer feedback on how the company communicates. Of course some questions can't be answered, and yes I know that there are always times when we can't have what we want, for may reasons, including the sheer spectrum of opinions (a point that Ry mentioned which I agree with). Has CG made calls and communicated decisions that I disagree with? Sure. Are some of the community complaints delivered to CG with vitrole and histrionics? Yep. Does that warrant a reply from CG with a similar tone? Not at all.

    Soft skills are important, and I won't apologize for asking for a higher degree of professionalism from CG. It isn't condescending to suggest this, and I would never suggest I'm a better person or more virtuous than Ry, just that there is an opportunity here that was missed.
  • Tekka
    26 posts Member
    1. Well done, you found the one definition which is not & chose to ignore the 6 that are, including its primary definition.
    OK, using your definition, what shared attitudes, interests or goals do you share with the people who you claim provide goods and services to you so are part of your community, or anyone else who you simply interact with for that matter?
    What shared attitude, interest or goal do you share with the mods?

    I googled ‘community definition’ the second definition was what I provided.

    The interests of exchanging my money for their goods. The attitude that we all live on this planet together and should be treated with respect. Our ‘shared goals’ were stated by the moderator in almost every reply: the continuing health of this game so I can keep playing cool SW stuff.

    2. You stated ‘this community’ I stated ‘the community which he serves’ those are the same communities. What am I not reading correctly? Your op says haha, he says we like he is part of our community. I say, I disagree.

    3. I clearly prefaced with “if you consider America to be a community (I do)”. Based on MY definition of community, America is most certainly a community, and hence, a community can have laws. If a community can have laws, members of a community can be affected differently or not at all by those laws. I may not be part of the subsection of pet owners (which would constitute a DIFFERENT community) but that does not remove my membership from the larger community. A boss or leader may not be part of the ‘workforce community’ as you describe another subset of a larger community, but they are part of the business community, they are part of the larger community as a whole.
  • Banth
    158 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    kello_511 wrote: »
    Now that the unpleasantness is behind us...

    I’m hearing reports from lots of guildmates that there may be some issues with characters getting unexpectedly affected by the latest changes. I believe that Sion’s zeta was no longer working as intended for some time and was fixed, but that there may be some other bugs still at large.
    I assume that’s what the OP was experiencing.

    Ok, now THAT is some constructive feedback, something we can work on IF you have examples of what you claim.

    We have a QA team scouring Bug Reports over here: https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/bd-p/star-wars-galaxy-of-heroes-bug-report-en

    Where bug reports SHOULD be going. So the next question is... if you (anyone) have a bug, why are we in the General Forum where RyDiggs is and not in the Bug Report forum... where QA is?

    Let's help each other improve the game.

    RT

    I and others I spoken to in chats have noticed two major bugs involving R2 and EP lead and Sion interactions and bug posts have been made but so far I’ve seen nothing done and nothing has been even taken seriously. To be fair, this last Sion update may have fixed part of it, but I’m not positive since I haven’t tried since because I was tried of losing so much against R2 because of all the bugs. One, R2 will cleanse off pain on a toon that’s attacking Sion and hitting with a crit and pain will not be reapplied even though Sion was damaged. This might have been fixed with the last hotfix, I haven’t checked yet. And two, it appears that when R2 cleanses off debuffs EP zeta lead will not always gain TM. I’ve had times when R2 crit cleanses off 6 debuffs and the Empire/Sith toons gain nothing. Not sure if this is WAI but every other time a debuff is removed for any reason they gain TM. Except this. So I doubt it’s WAI. It’s so bad that I’ve had to change line ups just to fight the bad bug RNG. I think that could be part of his issue as well. Like I said I’m not sure if the last hotfix helped but I haven’t seen anything official touching on R2s cleanse not giving EP lead TM.
  • Wow.....guy mentions legitimate concerns about well over a grand dropped on characters that are literally unplayable in the new raid and no response from the great one. I should have invested less time in expressing myself without hyperbole and ad hominem.

    But there will be one more finely crafted letter. With receipts of purchase. Sent to Disney. Because they actually care about their brand and PR and don't hire clowns.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @CG_RyDiggs
    "There is a difference between me NOT answering and you NOT getting the answer you want or expect.
    Many times my answer is, I cannot say. Not I don't know, but I cannot say.
    Going forward, we all need that to be an acceptable answer, because often, it will be the only answer."

    But that's not an answer. Telling someone that you're not allowed to give them an answer, is not giving them an answer.
    I can appreciate NDA type things & wanting to create surprises is great. If, rather than just saying "I cannot say", you maybe tried explaining why you cannot say, too?
    So "We recognise the amount of complaints about the Sith Raid rewards and appreciate people's issue with it. We will need to have a discussion around the ramifications of changing this aspect & will provide any information coming from that, when the studio allows it. We will be discussing this on xx/xx so we would hope to be able to provide some information by xx/xx. Apologies for the situation and not being in a position to provide any worthy information, as yet."
    Something along those lines would calm everything right down. If the proposed date is not going to be met, let people know that in advance, manage their expectations. Do it with honesty & integrity & things will certainly improve.
  • What confuses me is why we're having a debate over the definition of community; talk about arbitrary.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Whut wrote: »
    That's the thing, if you see the same question posted 50 times, answering it is the best way to stop that from rising to 200 & people becoming more & more frustrated by being ignored.
    It's not about having a dialogue or learning to, it's about giving a straight answer to the 50 versions of the same question, rather than side-stepping.
    People will gain some respect for the former, but lose any for the latter. Lost respect or broken trust is harder to regain than starting with none & earning some.

    Sorry, I just can't help myself.

    There is a difference between me NOT answering and you NOT getting the answer you want or expect.

    Many times my answer is, I cannot say. Not I don't know, but I cannot say.

    Going forward, we all need that to be an acceptable answer, because often, it will be the only answer.

    I and the studio don't enjoy disappointing players, but we have rules, guidelines and requirements that necessitate such responses.

    So, I'm not saying I answer EVERY question. I simply cannot do that, so let's set that aside.

    If 200 people are asking the same question... it is VERY likely I answered it, but the answer is not one that is accepted.

    You can 'not accept it' but that doesn't change the answer.

    I'm not sure what we can do culturally to change that missed expectation. Thoughts?

    RT

    Very deft wordplay, but I dont recall in the over 1500 or so posts spread over 3 threads that you answered the most repeated questions. In fact, the majority of those posts we're asking why you weren't addressing those questions. I like this new conversation, but can we not act like it is us not "getting the answer we want." We weren't getting answers at all.

    I want to fight for game integrity, same as you. I see things as a player, you as a creator. We (playerbase and devs) should be working together. Without the one, the other doesn't exist. For a time there, we felt like we weren't being heard. It sucks.

  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Just can’t help yourself....have to be passive aggressive. You guys created this mess. Please have some thicker skin. Your continued responses like the don’t “PROMOTE the community and the game.”


    I was being honest. I will think about this. I do little else BUT think about this. If you saw me grinning, nodding and contemplating you would understand.

    Unfortunately, text doesn't do justice, and I can't do corporate robot well, nor do I think it would serve the community here.

    SO, we're stuck with an implication that needs to be believed; I love this community, this game, and the PASSIONATE players, like the OP who would take the time to go to a forum, write something HOPING to affect a game they love so much.

    If I go to far, I'll correct. I expect the same of my community.

    If my current posts are not promoting the game, then We (Capital Games), I (Ryan Thomas) and You (the community) will keep talking and dialog until we do.

    Because this game is LONGTERM, and so am I. I really hope you will be to, to help us continue to nurture and grow a healthy thriving community.

    TTYL!

    Thank you for this response. I apologize for some of my responses that have been just as passive aggressive, as well. We are all passionate about this game.
  • I think @CG_RyDiggs has just had a lot to deal with the last few days guys with all the complaints, justified ones and nonsensical

    That doesn't justify his behavior. You would think a Manager would be well versed in handling complaints, and would be adult enough to know when to stay out and shut up let players/customers vent. If Diggs cannot do his job--and the more posts I see from him in this forum, the more convinced I am that he cannot handle the Public Relations role he has/was voltuneered for; nevermind that, as Development Manager, he seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding aboutt he game itself--he should make way for someone who can. Diggs' response turned this into a Thing, when, without him, it would have either been forgotten or used as a springboard for troubleshooting the issue(s) OP was complaining about (which, in turn, could have very well given Diggs' and the other devs insight into the real issue at hand).

    Instead he got offended over simple, if frustrated, feedback--which he could have taken constructively as "there's something wrong with Sith damage now" and promised to look into it--and ripped into someone who probably dropped a couple hundred dollars on Sion to begin with and felt that his money was wasted. Someone who was only trying to communicate that they regretted spending their resources on that particular thing (and if advising people where to (not) spend their resources is suddenly a Very Bad Thing we should probably delete the New Player and Arena Character Strategy forums). A little perspective, empathy, and a whole lot less hatred/contempt for the player(base) was all that was needed to turn this from a negative customer experience to a positie one.

    Imagine if--instead of acting like the blue-haired denizens of Twitter responding to a POTUS tweet--Diggs had handled this more professionally: "I'm sorry about the inconvenience" and "could you tell me a little bit more about Sion and Sith not meeting expectations? Is anyone else having these issues?" and "any details you have could help us solve this issue" and "I appreciate any feedback you have, but please keep in mind Forum guidelines (and then quoted the applicable bit)." It would go a long way towards soothing OP, and make people lurking--and witnessing the interaction--feel a bit more comfortable about spending their money here.

    EA/CG has always had issues with customer service, but I, for one, am still disgusted by this sort of behavior. I'm half expecting this post to be deleted and to be banned/warned for making it, but know that doing so would only prove my point.

    @catharsis478 , much appreciated, but @Boba_The_Fetter is somewhat correct. We are having a big issue over a small thing. I chose this hill :) You are AWESOME to think of me as a person though, I and the studio appreciate that sooo MUCH!

    Cheers!

    @Boba_The_Fetter,

    I should be going home, but you deserve some sort of response for this articulate and thought out post. I see that my points of:

    1. The forum's purpose is to promote the community and the game.
    2. I chose this thread, to make point #1 so that we could have a dialog.

    If I'm to blunt, too cold, to rude, to callous, that is all actionable and review-able feedback. I'll take it.

    I'm not staying out, and I'm not shutting up, I hope we can learn to dialog.

    However, your sentiment of letting players vent, yes, sometimes that is what's needed for the health of the game. You are VERY wise to understand this concept and I'm happy to see it conveyed :)

    I'll reiterate, you are absolutely correct. I chose this post as an example of what my and the studio's expectations are for this General Forum and the thread. Looking back, what I thought was light and casual could be taken as flippant if someone were sensitive to the text and smilies were not taken into account. I'll consider that in the future, and thanks :)

    Rest assured, the context of the post (Sion isn't meeting expectation) has been conveyed to Devs, but this ongoing dialog is about the culture of this forum and how together we will shift it.

    Strangely, I didn't get nor am I frustrated, I chose this post explicitly as an example:

    On this forum, what is OK and what is NOT OK, and;

    WHY it is not OK. I don't think the community is clear on why certain things are not acceptable, AND are self destructive when you think through them logically.

    If you already understand those things, then this might seem like a confusing concept to you, as my audience is others.

    I'm not trying to be 'soft' or 'nice' about this point. I want it to be crystal clear, in plain speak.

    I do not intend to offend, and I see some players have taken offence. If so, please know that wasn't the intent.

    Beyond that, to my point:

    Do you feel players should be able to voice feelings of Boycott, Don't invest, Don't play this game on these forums?

    I'm interested, and we have a dialog :)

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Banth
    158 posts Member
    Traygus wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    I like the salt. Keep it coming.

    If my salt is distracting from the point:

    " 'Boycott, Don't buy, Don't play, Don't invest, etc' is not tolerated because it undermines the community and the game."

    then I'm inclined to agree with @harbingerofrock that I'm not helping make my point. He's wise, and I'm learning.

    Thanks to you too!

    RT

    However, the whole landing debuffs thing in the raid means that he basically never taunts and will take an inordinate number of turns before he can, if at all, use Held By Hatred.

    I may be wrong here (don’t think so though) but his hatred cooldown reduction is everytime Sion “inflicts Pain” not every time Pain is landed on the enemy. So that means it counts pains that were attempted but didn’t pass the tenacity check. Thats how it seems in PvP at least when you watch it.
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?

    There are always consequences.

    I tried to reply to this, but nothing made sense other than to tell you I read it.

    Thanks for participating in the dialog!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Jb200
    1 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?

    We do not. I do not.

    RT

    The way you responded to this matter was unprofessional, condescending, and inexcusable.

    You’re speaking to your customer-base in a public forum. Regardless of how upset you are, the way you chose to handle this was grossly inappropriate.

    The fact that CG_RyDiggs chose to just keep posting shows just how ill-equipped they were in handling a matter such as this. Shameful.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Tekka wrote: »
    I googled ‘community definition’ the second definition was what I provided.
    OK, thanks, that explains a lot.
    Tekka wrote: »
    The interests of exchanging my money for their goods. The attitude that we all live on this planet together and should be treated with respect. Our ‘shared goals’ were stated by the moderator in almost every reply: the continuing health of this game so I can keep playing cool SW stuff.
    Ha ha ha, clutching at straws a little there, aren't we.
    a) You're applying the interests of the retailer, whose interests are opposite to yours. He is interested in selling his goods to you in order to get your money. You are only interested in getting his goods, the fact that it provides him with money is not an interest of yours, at all.
    b) We all live on the planet and should be treated with respect - says who? Why? What did everyone do to earn that respect? Courtesy, yes, but respect must be earned.
    c) I'm not even going to bother with that.
    Tekka wrote: »
    2. You stated ‘this community’ I stated ‘the community which he serves’ those are the same communities. What am I not reading correctly?
    The quote you were responding to is the one you failed to read properly.
    Whut wrote: »
    He absolutely has "the right" to feel part of a community, as does anyone else who actively participates in it and contributes to it.
    Tekka wrote: »
    3. I clearly prefaced with “if you consider America to be a community (I do)”. Based on MY definition of community, America is most certainly a community, and hence, a community can have laws. If a community can have laws, members of a community can be affected differently or not at all by those laws. I may not be part of the subsection of pet owners (which would constitute a DIFFERENT community) but that does not remove my membership from the larger community. A boss or leader may not be part of the ‘workforce community’ as you describe another subset of a larger community, but they are part of the business community, they are part of the larger community as a whole.
    I'm afraid that the real world & certainly the legal system doesn't work by your definitions.
    Laws are only able to be set by the governing body of a society or nation.
    Rules are applied to associations and communities, there is a distinct difference between those two, also.
    The wider business community is not a genuine community, it's a misappropriation for corporate speeches to try and get workers to be more productive.
    Post edited by Whut on
  • @Whut @Tekka ,

    You both raise a GREAT discussion of the definition of Community and whether or not I'm a part of it.

    KUDOS, because I will definitely ponder it. Another Doozy!

    However, please consider heading to offtopic or another thread possibly?

    I'm doing my best to keep this thread on the topics of:

    The purpose of the forums, to promote the SWGOH community and the SWGOH game.
    What is expected behavior of posts in this forum by the community.
    Why those expectations are there.

    The semantic argument of Community aside, I'd like to keep focused on the above topics.

    Again, I VERY much appreciate the discussion, I wish I could listen in on you to discuss in a podcast or something!

    Thank you both VERY much!

    Cheers!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Banth
    158 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Either way, it will PROMOTE the community

    CG_RyDiggs

    Don’t take this wrong because it’s 100% sincere..
    I keep hearing talk of community but recent actions seem to have had the opposite effect. The big one obviously being the JTR nerf that kind of came from left field. From a players perspective, this seemed like you guys nerfing the only really effective team at that point based on nothing but it being so effective. I get wanting to branch out and dig and find other comps. It’s one of the things I love about the raids. But that nerf was so senseless from a players perspective that it’s actually caused guilds to keep effective comps from each other in the fear that it’ll get out to the general public and be seen as “too effective” and nerfed. I’ve experienced this first hand. A close knit chat I’m in with a ton of different guilds has people talking about damage and teams but staying away from talking the actual comps because their guild doesn’t want to share. I mean people are already excepting a deathmark nerf any day now and it’s not even doing half of what the original JTR team could do. And this has caused isolation like I’ve never seen before in the game. Anything to comment?
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    @CG_RyDiggs Apologies, my last post was being drafted and was posted subsequent to yours.
    I'm sorry to have gone off-topic.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @CG_RyDiggs My point about being part of the community, is that if you were seen to share some of the player's feelings, then that would go a long way to everyone having a shared pov, rather than the "them & us" scenario which has developed here since the Sith Raid launch & subsequent updates & which, to be fair, your initial post kind of exacerbated.
    Them & us, is not a community. Sometimes the corporate front needs to come down in order to connect. Look at the opinions of the players, from a player's perspective, not from a business model one.
  • Banth wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Either way, it will PROMOTE the community

    CG_RyDiggs

    Don’t take this wrong because it’s 100% sincere..
    I keep hearing talk of community but recent actions seem to have had the opposite effect. The big one obviously being the JTR nerf that kind of came from left field. From a players perspective, this seemed like you guys nerfing the only really effective team at that point based on nothing but it being so effective. I get wanting to branch out and dig and find other comps. It’s one of the things I love about the raids. But that nerf was so senseless from a players perspective that it’s actually caused guilds to keep effective comps from each other in the fear that it’ll get out to the general public and be seen as “too effective” and nerfed. I’ve experienced this first hand. A close knit chat I’m in with a ton of different guilds has people talking about damage and teams but staying away from talking the actual comps because their guild doesn’t want to share. I mean people are already excepting a deathmark nerf any day now and it’s not even doing half of what the original JTR team could do. And this has caused isolation like I’ve never seen before in the game. Anything to comment?

    Heya Banth,

    I'm assuming everyone in this thread cares about the game and the community and wants it to be better. Even criticisms of me, my choices, my style is all meant to say I, the community or the game, could be better.

    As long as you intend that, I'll always take it the right way (I hope! :) )

    First: the primary topic of this thread is to be explicit in what our expectations in posting are. Specifically, whey we are so heavy handed on Boycott, Don't invest, Don't play, don't try etc.

    Reiterate, we're 100% understanding that players can and will say things like, "This missed my expectation, I don't like Thrawn because..., we need more ewoks, etc.'

    What you are talking about, as far as community is outside of this forum I BELIEVE, correct me if I'm wrong.

    When HAAT came out, the first 2 months were very similar, in that strats were not being shared because this game can be VERY competitive. Slowly but surely, the best strats leaked out and became normalized.
    Patience isn't easy, but eventually, it pays off in this game.

    IF you want to form a formal 'Sith Raid Consortium' I bet TONS of other guilds would be interested. Consider starting such a group here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/sith-triumvirate-raid
    I'm aware there are over half a dozen such guild groups formed for exactly the purpose you describe across discord servers.

    HOWEVER... I'd like to bring the topic back to the above points. The sith raid doesn't excuse players to make posts that are against the Forum Guidelines.

    I hope that helped? I'm not sure it did, but thank you for caring enough to post!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • @CG_RyDiggs As a PR and marketing professional, let me offer a little of the constructive criticism you have encouraged.

    You have made an innocuous and harmless post that would have been quickly ignored into a conversation about you and your behavior, which will now be one of the most read and engaged posts in the forum for several days, with most of the comments being negative.

    One of the most common complaints I see on these forums is about players feeling they are treated dismissively by your company, that the only thing the company cares about is revenue. Your responses in this post only reinforce that view. The OP didn’t suggest people not spend money, time or effort on the game. He clearly intended to communicate that players should spend those resources on other characters than those he was complaining about. Ironically, I and most others would have rolled our eyes and moved on because the argument made was very weak. But your aggressive reaction, which seems to only have been triggered by the tinyest perceived threat to revenue, will make many of us who would be inclined to defend you lose our sympathy and further question your concern for player experience and product quality as opposed to money.

    We don’t see this kind of enthusiastic and emotional response when you are responding to legitimate complaints relating to player experience. If you showed such concern for your customers as you have in this thread for your revenue, you would build a lot of goodwill with the player base. Instead, you have done the opposite.

  • Jb200 wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?

    We do not. I do not.

    RT

    The way you responded to this matter was unprofessional, condescending, and inexcusable.

    You’re speaking to your customer-base in a public forum. Regardless of how upset you are, the way you chose to handle this was grossly inappropriate.

    The fact that CG_RyDiggs chose to just keep posting shows just how ill-equipped they were in handling a matter such as this. Shameful.

    I do not feel I can meet your expectation if I expound. I do not feel I can meet your expectation if I'm concise. I do not think I can meet your expectations, and I am truly sorry for that.

    I don't know how to express in text my feelings that does not sound robotic, but know that they are sincere.

    It must be frustrating for you, but I hope we can find some middle ground to dialog on and move from there.

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
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