We really need this!

Prev1
We need a solution to having multiple characters gain 100% and then using RNG to determine who goes next. This is simply not fair, it ruins character's kits like Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn, who are supposed to take back to back turns by design.

It also promotes chaos and luck over skill. I'm pretty sure there is an easy fix which makes me wonder why it hasn't been addressed, especially now with RJT and zPalpatine all over arena.

It makes sense to not allow TM gain to interfere with characters who are taking their turns. First of all no character should reach 100% unless it's their turn or they have been actively gifted turn meter by their ally who's turn is taking place. Abilities that give 100% like Thrawn's for example, will not be hindered.

Make all characters cap at 99% TM while someone else is having their turn. After their turn is over then allow ties to be determined by highest speed. If there are still ties due to equal speeds then and only then let RNG decide.

This change will greatly benefit all players and make arena alot less frustrating and more skill based. We really need this!

Replies

  • +1
  • APX_919
    1784 posts Member
    Better than the alternative - flip a Porg. If it lands on its feet, the DS dominant team goes first; on its head, LS goes first and if Chewie is present he gets to eat it. If it flies away, Wampa appears and randomly eats a toon on each side.
    "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
  • I wouldn't mind the change, however I also wouldn't consider outsmarting the AI a "skill".
  • Drazz127 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the change, however I also wouldn't consider outsmarting the AI a "skill".

    I'm not talking about outsmarting the AI, but do you think it's cool when Vader uses his crush under palpatine lead and you expect to use a culling blade, to get fractured or stunned instead before you can use it?. Or using Tarkin's debuf ability and instead of going with ultimate firepower as it's intended, to instead get prevented by an enemy who hit 100% turn meter? Or use Thrawn's TM swap on an ally and that ally not taking their turn as intended?
  • BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Drazz127 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the change, however I also wouldn't consider outsmarting the AI a "skill".

    I'm not talking about outsmarting the AI, but do you think it's cool when Vader uses his crush under palpatine lead and you expect to use a culling blade, to get fractured or stunned instead before you can use it?. Or using Tarkin's debuf ability and instead of going with ultimate firepower as it's intended, to instead get prevented by an enemy who hit 100% turn meter? Or use Thrawn's TM swap on an ally and that ally not taking their turn as intended?

    The only way this happens is if your ability makes the other team have 100% TM, or if you had previously won the 100%TM tiebreaker. Generally only a big issue against Sion + DN combo. If you had previously won the 100% TM tiebreaker, why should you automatically win it again?
  • Drazz127 wrote: »
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Drazz127 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the change, however I also wouldn't consider outsmarting the AI a "skill".

    I'm not talking about outsmarting the AI, but do you think it's cool when Vader uses his crush under palpatine lead and you expect to use a culling blade, to get fractured or stunned instead before you can use it?. Or using Tarkin's debuf ability and instead of going with ultimate firepower as it's intended, to instead get prevented by an enemy who hit 100% turn meter? Or use Thrawn's TM swap on an ally and that ally not taking their turn as intended?

    The only way this happens is if your ability makes the other team have 100% TM, or if you had previously won the 100%TM tiebreaker. Generally only a big issue against Sion + DN combo. If you had previously won the 100% TM tiebreaker, why should you automatically win it again?

    Because you have the better mods
  • Huatimus
    3352 posts Member
    So basically “we” need game mechanics to change because you have lousy mods?
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    So basically “we” need game mechanics to change because you have lousy mods?

    ? Hahahha you are so off dude, my mods have nothing to do with it, where did you get that impression? It's the Palpatine leadership that feeds turn meter to your team which makes multiple characters reach 100%.

    In fact what I asked is the exact opposite of what you are implying, whoever has the better mods would get the advantage as opposed to turns being determined by RNG. You are so off
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    So basically “we” need game mechanics to change because you have lousy mods?

    I don't think you understand the point of this post, you probably haven't played long enough to have a zetad Palpatine so you don't even know what I'm talking about, which makes me wonder why you have to assume am asking for something unreasonable and you reply so negatively. My post has nothing to do with MY mods or MY account, it's a mechanics issue that all players face regardless off mods and skill level
  • Huatimus
    3352 posts Member
    https://swgoh.gg/u/huatimus/
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Because you have the better mods

    You don't speak for "we". You're speaking for You.
  • Oh ...
    Yeah, Huatimus has plenty of xp. Don't go there.
    I get your point and agree. It's, ah, not my favorite thing when I TM swap Thrawn to Palp and the other team goes before Palp. I thought it was my turn? Whatever.
    I want this to work better.
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    https://swgoh.gg/u/huatimus/
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Because you have the better mods

    You don't speak for "we". You're speaking for You.

    I don't see how you confused my intentions then
  • Nema
    134 posts Member
    So why can't my rex lead get me ahead of your Palo. That is it's purpose
  • Huatimus
    3352 posts Member
    Like I said above, you can speak for yourself, but you are not speaking for all of us.(So it's not We really need this, it's You really need this) Not everybody is running EP team at any rate. Multiple characters at 100% TM have always been a RNG fest (2 Zolos), this current situation really is not any different.
  • It's like going to a fast food restaurant in a group and your friend says we all want hamburgers, but you want a cheeseburger.

    If you saying we, you make it sound like everyone is in agreement. Obviously not everyone is.
  • Nema wrote: »
    So why can't my rex lead get me ahead of your Palo. That is it's purpose

    Because Rex lead shouldn't disrupt Vader's and Tarkin's combos. Also Thrawn's ability is meant to swap so that the target takes their turn next, not after others
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    Like I said above, you can speak for yourself, but you are not speaking for all of us.(So it's not We really need this, it's You really need this) Not everybody is running EP team at any rate. Multiple characters at 100% TM have always been a RNG fest (2 Zolos), this current situation really is not any different.

    So you prefer your matches to be determined by chance and not by the character's intended kits. Sounds like you may be the one with the "lousy mods"
  • It's like going to a fast food restaurant in a group and your friend says we all want hamburgers, but you want a cheeseburger.

    If you saying we, you make it sound like everyone is in agreement. Obviously not everyone is.

    Well if I changed the question to: "would you prefer your battles to be determined by luck or by the intended kits of the characters/skill" which one would you pick?
  • Oh so, when you play against thrawn with your palpy, this happens, amiright? Have you ever seen nightsister players complaining of an imperial trooper team?
    Anyway, the point is, don't play against your teams' natural counters.
    Besides, if all were to be given 99% tm after Force crush, it would just create a problem in the secondary level, after culling blade i.e. Hypothetically, all but one toon will at 99% tm now.
  • Oh so, when you play against thrawn with your palpy, this happens, amiright? Have you ever seen nightsister players complaining of an imperial trooper team?
    Anyway, the point is, don't play against your teams' natural counters.
    Besides, if all were to be given 99% tm after Force crush, it would just create a problem in the secondary level, after culling blade i.e. Hypothetically, all but one toon will at 99% tm now.

    So interrupting Vader's combo would be a more preferable scenario, even when his kit is intended to work that way? I've had my ultimate firepower interupted because of this, or Thrawn giving TM to an ally and that ally NOT having their turn.

    And honestly even in your case it would make no difference because you would still have all at 100%. The difference is that those characters who have the right to go before others in the midst of their combos won't be interrupted.

    As far as the "avoid your counters" part goes, you don't always have choices, the higher you climb in arena the more limited your choices become. My point is that when you have to chose between a bunch of identical teams and you know that even the most inferior modded team can beat you because of this random effect it simply makes no sense.

    My proposition is flawless, it would literally take a random effect and turn it into something you can predict, using speed as a determinant. This greatly improves your control over the fight and prevents characters whose kits depends on turn meter gain during their turns from being ruined.
  • Waqui
    4582 posts Member
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    We need a solution to having multiple characters gain 100% and then using RNG to determine who goes next. This is simply not fair, it ruins character's kits like Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn, who are supposed to take back to back turns by design.

    Wrong! They are designed to gain 100% TM, swap TM with an ally etc.
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    It also promotes chaos and luck over skill. I'm pretty sure there is an easy fix which makes me wonder why it hasn't been addressed, especially now with RJT and zPalpatine all over arena.

    You will find such 'chaos and luck' all over the place. Some times EP stuns all 5 opponents — sometimes not a single one. Do you really want everything to be deterministic and f.ex. remove all RNG regarding application of debuffs as well?
  • Waqui
    4582 posts Member
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Huatimus wrote: »
    Like I said above, you can speak for yourself, but you are not speaking for all of us.(So it's not We really need this, it's You really need this) Not everybody is running EP team at any rate. Multiple characters at 100% TM have always been a RNG fest (2 Zolos), this current situation really is not any different.

    So you prefer your matches to be determined by chance and not by the character's intended kits. Sounds like you may be the one with the "lousy mods"

    Please explain what you mean by 'intended kit'.

    If the intention really was that Vader should take two back to back turns instead of simply gaining 100% TM, wouldn't the designers simply have used the design of Talia? They clearly distinguish between gaining 100% TM and immediately taking another turn (or immediately using another ability like Talia). Don't you think it's their intention?
  • Waqui wrote: »
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    We need a solution to having multiple characters gain 100% and then using RNG to determine who goes next. This is simply not fair, it ruins character's kits like Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn, who are supposed to take back to back turns by design.

    Wrong! They are designed to gain 100% TM, swap TM with an ally etc.
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    It also promotes chaos and luck over skill. I'm pretty sure there is an easy fix which makes me wonder why it hasn't been addressed, especially now with RJT and zPalpatine all over arena.

    You will find such 'chaos and luck' all over the place. Some times EP stuns all 5 opponents — sometimes not a single one. Do you really want everything to be deterministic and f.ex. remove all RNG regarding application of debuffs as well?

    There's a difference, with % chances you know what you get. The problem I'm referring to literally makes character kits not work as intended. There is a reason Tarkin's debuf ability grants him 100% tm under palpatine lead and that is to follow it but ultimate firepower. There's a reason why Vader gains 100% TM when he uses his force crush under palpatine lead and that's to use his culling blade right away. There is a reason why Thrawn has an ability to grant an ally 100% TM and that is for that ally to go right away.

    When you disrupt those abilities then you ruin those characters. Simple as that. Now the reason why I proposed this solution is to ensure fairness. If you want to make it so that those specific abilities work similar to how raid bosses have "bonus actions" then so be it. But let's not pretend that it's good for the game when vader can't use his culling blade right after Force crush, or that Thrawn giving 100% TM an ally only to have that ally fractured or stunned before they can have their turn, makes any sense.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Huatimus wrote: »
    Like I said above, you can speak for yourself, but you are not speaking for all of us.(So it's not We really need this, it's You really need this) Not everybody is running EP team at any rate. Multiple characters at 100% TM have always been a RNG fest (2 Zolos), this current situation really is not any different.

    So you prefer your matches to be determined by chance and not by the character's intended kits. Sounds like you may be the one with the "lousy mods"

    Please explain what you mean by 'intended kit'.

    If the intention really was that Vader should take two back to back turns instead of simply gaining 100% TM, wouldn't the designers simply have used the design of Talia? They clearly distinguish between gaining 100% TM and immediately taking another turn (or immediately using another ability like Talia). Don't you think it's their intention?

    Well when those characters were created this effect wasn't happening, so yes they were intended to work this way. I respect other opinions but if you are going to argue that Vader and Tarkin aren't supposed to take back to back turns, or that Thrawn "gifting" a turn to an ally isn't supposed to make sure they go right away, then I cannot respect that opinion, sorry.
  • I agree 100% with the OP - if two toons have full TM bars, mods should be the tie breaker, not coin tossing. Period.

    Right, we have enough RNG implemented in some character kits, adding additional RNG due to turn meter ties literally makes battles a coin flip. It's so annoying to lose fights due to characters popping out of nowhere and taking turns when they aren't supposed to.
  • leef
    11209 posts Member
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Nema wrote: »
    So why can't my rex lead get me ahead of your Palo. That is it's purpose

    Because Rex lead shouldn't disrupt Vader's and Tarkin's combos. Also Thrawn's ability is meant to swap so that the target takes their turn next, not after others

    Why not though?
    Thrawn and rex lead are ideal to stop the initial barage of a faster palp leader vader team. It's what they do, gain TM from getting attacked.

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • OP’s point is conflicted at best and self indulgent at worst. All your references are to 100% tm and not to any mechanic which ensures a second turn. Toons where this is ‘intended’ clearly have a defining explanation of that skill. You want a different calculation on tie breaking tm, that’s fine. You also want characters you obviously use to have an extra advantage working outside the framework of their current kit.

    Calculate a tie break on mod speed at 100% then that’s also an alternative method which I guess I can see people supporting. However changing other toons to 99% tm is clearly wrong and is clearly specifically designed so that characters you use gain an advantage over methods and characters others use.

    Disguising personal interest as campaigning for a player base is just plain wrong. By all means ask the question and start a discussion but don’t presume to represent the player base or become overly defensive when people have an alternative point of view.
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