Shard Chats = cheating

Replies

  • Gather the outcasts and form your own alliance and make it a war at payout!
  • I have started to encounter this as well. Day in and day out the top 5 is identical, albeit it rotating order. I took the mindset of “just get better” and have started claiming top payout 1-2 times a week, and now I fall farther down the ladder every day. I reached out to one of the “members” and the response I got was “we have worked hard to stay in the top 5 since the beginning, we’ll let you in the chat and you can take 6...” thanks but no thanks, I’m already taking top 10 daily without your help, and now I’ve made it my mission to take top spot daily until they change their mind. Rotating shards would solve this, I hope the devs see the issue
  • ... Rotating shards would solve this, I hope the devs see the issue

    No it won't - have you seen the PvP/Rivalry subforum? As long as they can find each other this will still happen.

    The devs know about it, and have taken the stance that they are not going to stop it.

    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Dunno what kind of person thinks a monopoly in a free market is right. Even the US government would've broken up these shard chats.
  • There is nothing that CG can do about it anyway. People are using third party apps to socialize. Whatever the outcome of that socialization is matters not. CG has no power to do anything to Discord or Line, or any other 3rd party messaging app. I feel your pain and understand it, but there is nothing they can do to break up shard chats.
  • Anrath
    216 posts Member
    Perhaps the solution is already be present in Territory Wars. Maybe this what rotating shards is, but perhaps CG can pool together the current top 50 in every shard, and then fairly match them into new shards somewhat like the match making that is done in TWars. Do this every day or two. It would break up current shard payout groups, and keep doing so, making it more of a free for all. Though QoL probably would take a hit for people wanting top ranks.
  • The shard reshuffling would have to be an ongoing thing. Just reshuffling the deck once wouldn't solve the issue. I've also read the bit about these so called "cheating experts" before. I seriously doubt that they exist and if they do they need to look up cheating in the dictionary. Yes, the official stance is they're not going to do anything about it so the best thing anyone can do is keep making a stink about it. I for one will not be spending anymore money on this game in protest.
  • If you're a whale, you're probably already in the shard chat, since you want to protect your investment. You're not going to take a stand against shard chats or stop spending in protest. If you're F2P, you're already not spending, and leaving the game in protest costs them literally nothing, since you weren't spending in the first place.

    *note: since some people always seem to get mixed up, I mean "you" in the generic sense. Not at anyone specifically.*
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • What is a shard chat? I know of guild chat, where is the shard chat? Are you talking about LINE or Discord? Or is there a feature in the game to chat with those in the arena shard? If so, where is it?
  • Mischen1 wrote: »
    What is a shard chat? I know of guild chat, where is the shard chat? Are you talking about LINE or Discord? Or is there a feature in the game to chat with those in the arena shard? If so, where is it?

    shard chat is the name for a Line/Discord room where people from a fleet or squad arena shard meet to communicate.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • the truth is simple. the "Cheating" is towards the game, not the other guys in the shard.
    id explain. most of the guys in my shard chat just did chaotic stuff and attacks at all times of the day. hitting people at the payout, climbing too early, using leftover fights vs guys that their payout is nearly after.
    lot of stuff that is totally unacceptable. there arent any "rules" for the shards, but this is some of unspoken rules.
    now, when more people are in the shard, we know when to climb and on who, we can get maximum crystals at minimum fights.
    so.. how this hurt the other players ? the other players did a mistake.
    right now, we are targeting some guy whos hitting at all hours of the day. this is unacceptable for us, it ruin our easy climbing method, and we are punishing him for it. badly. his swgoh.gg graph shows how determined we are to get our #1 and how much we dont like people pulling these stuff.
    so let me tell you something OP @Robotolove . 2 options. or get crazily better with crazy mods until you will be untouched (haha, not really an option). or climb due to the "unspoken rules", hitting people only after their payout, and dont disturb guys from chat shard. try to get to understanding with them. there's no winning for you if you go war on them. in my chat, pretty much everyone is welcome besides guys with specific payout. we already have 10 guys in this payout so this is locked. but im sure you can squeeze in to your shard chat. play nicely instead of whine here.
    TL:DR - they "cheat" the system for more easy crystals. this is their method. if you disturb this, you will be punished.
  • rawman
    685 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Kai_Mulai wrote: »
    Robotolove wrote: »
    It turns a PVP match into PVP+P+P+P match. In a free for all competition teaming up defeats the purpose.

    As I understand it, shard chats can be used for 2 purposes. The first is allowing more people to rank higher. If most or all of the people at the top have a different payout time, they can all get better rewards. That’s cooperation to improve things for everyone, and I’d call it a good thing.

    The other purpose is exclusion of anyone not in the shard chat. It seems like that’s the kind of thing you don’t like and I’d agree that it’s not helpful. However, it’s still going to happen in certain arena shards. So if yours is one of them, you can break it up by beating the other teams so you do well at your payout time. And if you keep doing well, you’ll probably be invited to join the shard chat yourself!

    To my experience members of shard chats only punish players who regularly mess with their payouts. Maybe OP was such a guy?
    Robotolove wrote: »
    I don't frequent the forums much and I was wondering if this subject has been brought to the attention of the devs?

    This topic is as old as the game and there were already people being banned from the forums for calling shard chats "cheating". Just FYI.
  • Anrath
    216 posts Member
    The "cheat" is when a group of shard chat people lock out other people not in the chat, because they compete with a subset of the shard chat groups payouts. Like how @ewqewqc says his "payout time" is locked because they already have 10 in that payout time... meaning they won't accept new people into the shard chat that share that payout time and actively punish outsiders that try to compete for that payout time, by using members of the shard chat that have different payout times.

    The blocking due to a perceived fullness of that payout time, and more specifically the italized statement above, is where the annoyance over "cheating" comes from... imo. People with the same payout times should just compete with each other, without interference from other people in different payout times.

    The other "etiquette" rules may be fine (again imo) to "enforce", except when members of the Shard Chat violate those rules themselves.
    Like when they attack outside their payout times to maintain a lower level ranking, presumably to avoid having to climb like the rest of us, then it is just hypocritical to expect outsiders to behave one way while Shard Chat people get to behave differently.

    @rawman Interesting. But I guess it makes sense this issue would be as old as the game itself.
  • Still waiting to hear from the devs how a bunch of people fight locking anyone outside their shard chat is ok.

    You should be fighting for best rank at payout time.
  • RobArt
    117 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I am sure they would argue many many players, if they "nerf" this too!
  • Today i was first 7 mins before end..and i was 12 at the end...hit me back to 5th,its ok(the 2 shard chat player want to go to top)..but they hit me back to 8( why dont wait to draw, and everybody happy?) and after this they try to kick me out to top 10(7minutes and 1-12, nice), Its fair, right?
  • Electricboa
    67 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Shard chats were originally created for a very good purpose. It’****.t,u.p.i,d (censorship) to fight people that don’t share your payout. If someone has a payout an hour before me, I can just wait till afterwards to move up. This means more people get rewards, not fewer. Pretty much everyone gets their turn at the top. That part I’ve never heard anyone complain about because, it’s only helping people.

    That’s the basic function of all shard chats. All the complaints I see come from the level of control the chat has over the arena. A side effect of having a group of people working together towards a common goal is they actually work together. If you have someone new attack a fellow member of your chat, you’re going to want to help. The idea being if you were in a similar situation, you’d want help.

    That will vary wildly between shard chats. You can have laze faire chats that are mostly free-for-all, just with avoiding attacking each other. Some chats have a ‘hit list’ of trouble makes. Other ones are so controlled that people keep an eye on outsiders and target them as need be.

    My regular arena is highly controlled. Farferi mention being knocked back to 12, but I remember at one point members of my chat had moved someone from a top 5 spot to the 20s without giving them a chance to lock themselves. Of course, that particular player attacked people all the time, well outside of their payout, just to do it. They weren’t just trying to rank, they wanted to mess with people for no good reason.

    My fleet arena has a hit list, but mostly just a non-aggression chat. And why are most people on the hit list? They attack people outside of their payout time. You might be noticing a theme here. Most shard chats I know of don’t normally target someone, unless they go out of their way to make trouble.

    Now it is true that some people want to get into a chat but are denied. This could come from two reasons. The first reason is if the payout time is very crowded. While coordination is all well and good, there does come a certain point where it’s not practical. Odds are if your arena has 5 or more people in the same payout, they’re not going to be able to include anyone else, since they have to avoid each other and the people with payout after them.

    The second reason is how well someone can maintain their rank. I see this a lot. Someone will make it in the top 10 once and immediately ask to be on a rotating payout with other people. I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s just not going to happen. All the shard chats I know about are concerned with top 10, but usually only top 5. If you can’t make it up there, there’s no point in having you in the chat. The same is true if you can’t keep making it up there. I don’t say that to sound cold, but the whole point of people working together during the same payout is consistency.

    To use an example, take my fleet arena. There are four of us with the same payout. We rotate through all four ranks every day, so we all get a chance at #1. For the most part, we’re all there every day, but if one of us doesn’t make it, we let the others know and they can take a higher spot (if applicable). On the whole, however, we know that if we’re on #3 that day, we’re going to be going to #3.

    On the other end of the spectrum, take my regular arena. There are four of us again, but the situation is a bit different. I’ve been getting #1 there since more or less late January 2016 (unless I got sniped). The other three only made it to the top in the last 6 or 7 months. Considering I’ve been there so much longer and they are not consistent in making it up, I get #1 and they work out #2 - #4. The simple fact is they don’t always make it up. Over the last couple months, one has consistently made it up, though there was a time when it was one of the others. Even then, the one that does make it up doesn’t go for the #2 spot. It’s possible they might not be able to beat everyone.

    That right there is why most shard chats screen people before letting them in. The reality is most people will burn out pretty quickly. One of the four in my regular arena isn’t even in the top 50 right now, and the payout is about an hour and a half away. It’s certainly possible to make it, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    That doesn’t even consider the longevity of meta change. Right now, the meta is about as FTP friendly as it has ever been, which means a lot of people are making it in to the top 50 almost by luck. I’ll see a new username and check their roster to see the only characters they’ve really geared are for their Palpatine team. When the meta inevitably shifts, they’re going to drop like rocks because they won’t be able to adapt. And it’s not the first time. The Nightsisters did the same thing. Some players were getting by with criminally under-geared teams because of a gimmick. And as soon as the NS stopped being arena viable at the top, they all vanished.

    You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way it is. Shard chats exist and the Devs won’t do a thing about it. Why? Because there’s no ‘solution’ that isn’t more trouble than it’s worth. Just look at the fleet arena shard they’re breaking up. I know people in that shard, and the Devs knew about it from the beginning. How long have ships been in-game? It’s taken them this long to do something about such a grossly unfair shard, and that’s just a single shard. Does anyone honestly think they’re going to even consider the logistical nightmare it would be to scramble every shard, both regular and fleet?

    And then what about the complaints that will come when players that started a month ago are thrown into a shard with people playing since the beginning? I often give advice on another forum to people just starting out and they make it into the top 100 with G7 Phoenix teams. Those people should never be put up against people with G12 Zeta teams.

    You could try to keep players with others that started around the same time, but once you make that pool small enough, you’re just going to end up with new shard chats. And there’s no way the Devs could shuffle it every couple days. That’s just insane. Again, look at how long it took to fix a single shard.

    But there is a solution, if you really wanted it. If you want to eliminate the need for shard chats, then get rid of payout times. Have it so you get the highest rank you achieve in a single day is the reward you get. That way there’s no need for locking anyone out. As long as you make it to #1 once, you get #1.

    But that is never going to happen because as generous as this game is with Crystals, that would be giving away too much for CG. I get #1 in my regular arena and a top 4 spot in my fleet arena every day. That’s 800-900 Crystals a day. I don’t spend money anymore. I was around a low dolphin for a while, but when they stopped the daily Crystal booster, I stopped spending. Why should I? I get about $7 worth of Crystals every day. That’s approximately $40 - $50 a week in Crystals (depending on your conversion rate) that I definitely couldn’t afford to spend otherwise. If they started letting anyone who makes it to the top do that, they would lose a lot of money.

    So you’ll never get a viable solution because it would lose them money, and they won’t fix what exists now because it’s just not cost effective to do so. Apart from the fact that the people who do spend a bunch of money are able to take advantage of the system and wouldn’t want it to change.
  • starlordisanidiot
    19 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    The truth with farferi is he was invited into chat when he was getting smashed out of top 5 easy but because we didnt want to bully and like to help everyone if we can even though it was a full PO slot.

    We was extremly rude and selfish even bumping his PO mates because they were infront of him 45 mins before payout without asking or waiting for them to move not to mention he had simple routes around that would not have cost him any extra moves.

    Further more he would swear, call others names, lie, hit and bump for several weeks as if he was the the only person in the arena.

    After many weeks of putting up with behaviour we removed him from chat and treate him as the rude, selfish **** he is.

    Message to Farfei:

    Wake up you to the fact you were an **** and appologise.
    Its a fun game and its just a fun daily game feature to bump you out of top 5 and sometimes top 10 in 1-2mins because you over stepped with your disgusting beviour for which you need to be held accountable.
    ciao


    Post edited by starlordisanidiot on
  • locodiel
    92 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Depends on what the group actually does. Just informing others about payout times and avoiding the guys in your payout slot/the ones immediately after your payout is ok. If the group is open to new members it is ok. If the group collectively target other players to teach them how to behave it is not ok.

    Post edited by locodiel on
  • There is easy solution to this problem but they will never resort to it because it would decrease their income and I cant blame them for that. You get rewards for highest place you achieved that day. This way there is no need for shard chats there is no need to fight over 1st place at estabilished hour also would solve problem of inconvinient payout times. BUT it would drastically increase amount of crystals that playerS (not a single one ) can get daily therefore someone who is not a whale but would still buy crystals from time to time wouldnt spend because he can get those crystals without paying, and there is no other way of solving this. But lets be real now, can you really compete with krakens and whales in your shard even without shard chats
  • locodiel
    92 posts Member
    There is easy solution to this problem but they will never resort to it because it would decrease their income and I cant blame them for that. You get rewards for highest place you achieved that day. This way there is no need for shard chats there is no need to fight over 1st place at estabilished hour also would solve problem of inconvinient payout times. BUT it would drastically increase amount of crystals that playerS (not a single one ) can get daily therefore someone who is not a whale but would still buy crystals from time to time wouldnt spend because he can get those crystals without paying, and there is no other way of solving this. But lets be real now, can you really compete with krakens and whales in your shard even without shard chats

    People still would trample over each other to achieve this "highest rank per day". Maybe on average people had a higher rank for payout but other than that nothing changed.
  • Just do what most do, farm Arena and move on. Win, lose, meh.. grab rewards watch TV :D
  • jbjrh20cpkrj.png
    9j45wetww0st.png
    csdtcjdiep1t.png
  • So I need to kill a lion or something to prove myself in order to be one of the chosen ones to get into the shard chat. Ridiculous. Some people need to learn how to share. For the record my only intention was to find out who I share payout time with. I don’t need someone to lock out my rivals and hold my hand so I can get some extra crystals. Shard chats are cheating and should be dealt with as cheating.
  • Ah, the new in-game chat is helping people make friends already!

    @MörderskA it saddens me to read that. What is your current Arena Rank and where do you usually try to finish?

    My advice to you would be to find out who else is in the shard chat, but more importantly find out who is not in the chat but might be on their hit list. Then contact those people and fight back with your own group. If they won't let you in, then you must go to war with them until they see the need to make nice. If you don't find some others to help you, they are going to make sure that you can't climb too high.

    What I have seen is that the shard chats, for the most part, do not target a person just to be mean, but because they know that person will mess up their payout or someone else's payout by sniping (whether intentional or not does not matter) so they try to make sure that they can't be sniped.

    Your buddy in the chat there could have handled that much better, unless there is a pic that is missing where you were a complete JO or something. From what I can tell you were just trying to find out HIS time so you did not mess HIM up.
  • Whether preserving spots so you don't fall too far outside of your payout - staggering payouts - locking up anyone from getting to the top. Whatever. Devs are clearly okay with everything that's happening.

    But no matter the reasons - none of them are in the spirit of a competitive arena - it's like some version of the Walking dead where an uneasy alliance of the living are fending off the droves of undead. Not an arena.

    Shard alliances have more to gain from cooperation then Guilds do - guilds are set up to be way more competitive with one, singular, 1, uno #1 payout for a raid every 2-3 days. Meanwhile multiple people can work together to ALL get #1 payout in arena EVERY SINGLE day. That's okay. That's fine. That doesn't ruin the game.

    It is what it is.

    But whenever I see them talking about something "not being in the spirit of the game" (i.e. some team doing too much damage in a raid), and they nerf it, or change mechanics, stop guild hopping, lower rewards because too much is given out..... It's pretty hypocritical. It's the reason for multiple threads over the years asking for it to change.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • Hmm..interesting!
  • JediMindTricks
    1077 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Robotolove wrote: »
    I'm hearing a lot about the "good shards" that work together to see that everyone gets a piece of the pie. While I'm sure they are all lovely people it's the other shards that are the problem and that is why I feel something should be done. A better solution needs to be found. A simple shuffling of the shards by date would fix it. No one would lose their current ranking, just the guy/gal next to them wouldn't be in their chat room.

    How do you know shuffling the shards would work? Do you have proof or is that just your opinion? I can honestly tell you it wouldn't work. Before I would be finished typing here all those shuffled shards would be looking for each other again. I know that's exactly what I would do.

  • The truth with farferi is he was invited into chat when he was getting smashed out of top 5 easy but because we didnt want to bully and like to help everyone if we can even though it was a full PO slot.

    We was extremly rude and selfish even bumping his PO mates because they were infront of him 45 mins before payout without asking or waiting for them to move not to mention he had simple routes around that would not have cost him any extra moves.

    Further more he would swear, call others names, lie, hit and bump for several weeks as if he was the the only person in the arena.

    After many weeks of putting up with behaviour we removed him from chat and treate him as the rude, selfish **** he is.

    Message to Farfei:

    Wake up you to the fact you were an **** and appologise.
    Its a fun game and its just a fun daily game feature to bump you out of top 5 and sometimes top 10 in 1-2mins because you over stepped with your disgusting beviour for which you need to be held accountable.
    ciao


    Lier..yes attack you 1 or 2 times bcs must move and didnt know the rules... att you 1 or 2 times and????..you are always first, no enemy in your payout, easy to reach the first position...
    The truth with farferi is he was invited into chat when he was getting smashed out of top 5 easy but because we didnt want to bully and like to help everyone if we can even though it was a full PO slot.

    We was extremly rude and selfish even bumping his PO mates because they were infront of him 45 mins before payout without asking or waiting for them to move not to mention he had simple routes around that would not have cost him any extra moves.

    Further more he would swear, call others names, lie, hit and bump for several weeks as if he was the the only person in the arena.

    After many weeks of putting up with behaviour we removed him from chat and treate him as the rude, selfish **** he is.

    Message to Farfei:

    Wake up you to the fact you were an **** and appologise.
    Its a fun game and its just a fun daily game feature to bump you out of top 5 and sometimes top 10 in 1-2mins because you over stepped with your disgusting beviour for which you need to be held accountable.
    ciao


    The true: 1, You hate me, bcs att you 1or two times before know the rules( and really, you are always top 1, bcs no enemys at your PO,whats the problem)
    2, Soo you hate me, bcs i win a few times, and work to kick out from the chat
    3, few weeks later you are the boss and kick me(nobody wants this in the chat, just you)
    4, now i must fight 18 members, i try avoid players who have payouts but you enjoy to kick me back:Its a fun game and its just a fun daily game feature to bump you out of top 5 and sometimes top 10 in 1-2mins because you over stepped with your disgusting beviour for which you need to be held accountable....fun, really fun?..go to a doctor if you enyoj others pain
    5, Further more he would swear, call others names, lie, hit and bump for several weeks as if he was the the only person in the arena....what? swear????, call other names????..well, my english bad, i said sorry, but if someone not perfect any language and he write badly must be targeted?
    6, You know Filthy: only you have problems with me...now, i must attack chat members..man,its 18 player, how to hell avoid them???
    7, At the end: shard chat is good who in, bad who dont..and who in, say:goood , who not:bad..and EA:doesnt matter:D..so i will leave, Filthy:you can be proud of yourself,you killed a player playing two years ago(bcs i played f2p, and the fleet kill me)
This discussion has been closed.