(Mods) Crit Damage vs Offense

banjo1071

Hi
I have accepable (speak speed secondaries) modsets for CD and Off. I would like to mod my G12 Wampa for more DPS. Which would be the better choice?

Thanks
Benjamin

Rebel_yell

General rule of thumb: if the character has >40% crit chance, use CD, otherwise Offense.

banjo1071

thanks mate

Kyno

Moved to strategy section.

Rebel_yell wrote: »

General rule of thumb: if the character has >40% crit chance, use CD, otherwise Offense.

This is a fair rule of thumb.

Keep in mind the skills too, some toons have advantages from crits and what not.

Wampa has stacking offense (%) so giving him good offense to begin with is great, but his natural offense with bonuses would make for crushing crits.

The other side is the usage, if you are doing this for arena, crits have some counter effects like CD reduction for sion.

All that considered, I would go offense. Same conclusion but you need to consider more than just the rules of thumb sometimes.

leef

Wampa also has stacking crit chance, keep that in mind when using that rule of thumb.

TVF

leef wrote: »

Wampa also has stacking crit chance, keep that in mind when using that rule of claw.

What You Should Have Said

Creepioo

Also as far as i can tell offense percents from mod primary, secondary, set bonus ect. aren't multiplied with stacking abilities such as Asajj Rampage or im guessing Wampa has similar stacking. Cuz it only takes from base offense. I do think however if you add solid number offense secondaries they became part of base offense. Same with protection and health.

Sorry partially off topic but also partially related.

Woodroward

Creepioo wrote: »

Also as far as i can tell offense percents from mod primary, secondary, set bonus ect. aren't multiplied with stacking abilities such as Asajj Rampage or im guessing Wampa has similar stacking. Cuz it only takes from base offense. I do think however if you add solid number offense secondaries they became part of base offense. Same with protection and health.

Sorry partially off topic but also partially related.

Outside of a match base offense doesn't include mods. Inside of a match, base offense includes mods.

Woodroward

Rebel_yell wrote: »

General rule of thumb: if the character has >40% crit chance, use CD, otherwise Offense.

I used to think this was a good rule of thumb, but it isn't.


Comparitive math that takes into account all factors will show that the breakpoint before you start including offensive stats from mods is around 56% crit. With high offense on your mods the breakpoint where crit damage is better can fall to around 20%.

The only rule of thumb worth using when it comes to offense vs crit damage mods is this: if your team composition gives out 20%+ crit chance due to buffs or abilities to the person you are modding, then crit damage is most likely better.


Other little tidbits: offense set tends to be better before you get a wide selection of mods so the longer you've been playing, the more likely that crit damage sets will do more for you.

Since the value of the offense set decreases as you stack offense on your mods and maximizing damage means stacking offense, Crit damage set is generally better for end game and offense set is generally better for beginners.

On a JTR or Droid squad, Crit damage will always be better than offense just because of the large crit chance boost they get.

A Nihilus lead will always prefer offense.

An ability that boosts offense does increase the value of the offense set, but with diminishing returns since it will boost damage regardless of which set you use. To rephrase 10% offense on a leader ability will not boost the comparitive value of the offense set compared to the crit damage set by 10% since it will also boost increase crits by 10%. The amount that it increases it will be based on crit chance.

For example a 10% increase in offense with a 45% crit chance with a crit damage set is worth 10 * .45 = 4.5% damage increase for the crit damage set vs a 10% damage increase for the offense set meaning that the value of the offense set vs a crit damage set goes up by 5.5% with a 10% increase in offense from leader ability.


To wrap it all up, there is no real blanket rule as to which set is better other than crit chance in comp. In reality individual sets of mods must be compared to see which is better no a case by case basis. The times where it is clear cut which is better are few and far between, and going off of a character's base crit chance to decide is not a very effective method.

Simple, short and easy method to pick is to ask one question:
Does my comp have a crit chance boost?
If yes, pick crit damage.
If no, pick the set with more offense primaries and secondaries instead of picking by type.

If the offense on each set is roughly equal estimate the amount of offense.
If you have low offense, use the offense set.
If you have medium offense take your pick.
If you have high offense, go crit damage.

Empiric1

Offense if you mainly use special damage = ie Talzin
Offense if you have low crit chance

Crit dmg if you have 40% crit and higher

Woodroward

Empiric1 wrote: »

Offense if you mainly use special damage = ie Talzin
Offense if you have low crit chance

Crit dmg if you have 40% crit and higher

Ignore the last part of this guys advice.

The crit chance breakpoint varies from 20%-56% depending on how much offense is on the set of mods.

That 40% rule is a bad rule.


Simple, short and easy method to pick is to ask one question:
Does my comp have a crit chance boost?
If yes, pick crit damage.
If no, pick the set with more offense primaries and secondaries instead of picking by type.

If the offense on each set is roughly equal estimate the amount of offense.
If you have low offense, use the offense set.
If you have medium offense take your pick.
If you have high offense, go crit damage.