Update to Raid Reward Changes - 4/11/18

Replies

  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    BrtStlnd wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.

    We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.

    This is just not true @CG_Carrie you said you would be improving raid rewards to bring them in line with the effort involved and from our perspective you have done exactly the opposite.

    Yep. This. *sigh* I give up. They're not listening. @CG_Carrie Your intent in the first place? Reread your own post from April 2. Here, I'll save you the time:
    The rewards are intended to be commensurate with the effort, and we have made a number of changes to increase the overall rewards, as well as reduce certain aspects of frustration.

    Can you honestly explain how nerfing the rewards is consistent with "your intent in the first place"? The one you communicated 10 days ago?

    I'll assist you once again. You can't. Because the communicated intent and your actions are not consistent. THAT is what leads to a let down. Being told one thing, then having another done is what leads to a let down. Honesty doesn't.

    Now, if the true "intent in the first place" was to nerf raid rewards across the board (as you have mentioned that this "improvement" will take place for other raids later) - then you should have said so. Actually, you should have tested the raid reward distribution before releasing it "in the first place".

    You know what else would "reduce certain aspects of frustration"? Fixing it in less than two weeks. Because many of us who have been playing this game for 2+ years know that when "bugs" or "accidents" favor the players, fixes happen much more quickly than that.

    I stated this earlier, but I am now free to play. I am no longer under the delusion that this lack of integrity when it comes to communication and actions is accidental. You can attempt to carry on this charade of "listening and caring", using the facade of long-winded posts that rationalize the disinformation if you are so inclined. Based on recent events, you will also understand, why many of us are now inclined to no longer simply accept it as true.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • jedibaer71
    575 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    ok, after reading many, many comments in this thread:

    i have only one question, i'm sure i get no answer, but no matter i try it:

    is there only ONE PERSON, working with/for Capital Games, or is actually a member of the dev-team, who has a common account in SWGOH and plays the game like a thousand others?
  • Careful, asking devs if they play their own game gets a warning from the mods....


    .... I should know. I did.
  • jedibaer71 wrote: »
    ok, after reading many, many comments in this thread:

    i have only one question, i'm sure i get no answer, but no matter i try it:

    is there only ONE PERSON, working with/for Capital Games, or is actually a member of the dev-team, who has a common account in SWGOH and plays the game like thousands others?

    I think all play. But there is a trend of playing to 85 and starting over.
    I’m not sure if anyone is really active as we are.
  • BrtStlnd
    1094 posts Member
    jedibaer71 wrote: »
    ok, after reading many, many comments in this thread:

    i have only one question, i'm sure i get no answer, but no matter i try it:

    is there only ONE PERSON, working with/for Capital Games, or is actually a member of the dev-team, who has a common account in SWGOH and plays the game like thousands others?

    Yes. This was answered in the same Q&A where they said they were increasing sith raid rewards and that players would be happy with the changes.
  • Careful, asking devs if they play their own game gets a warning from the mods....


    .... I should know. I did.

    Ah i didn’t know that. I posted a topic months- a year ago on arena teams from devs and had a good many responses. Idk why but I always remember Conduit used droids.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    jedibaer71 wrote: »
    ok, after reading many, many comments in this thread:

    i have only one question, i'm sure i get no answer, but no matter i try it:

    is there only ONE PERSON, working with/for Capital Games, or is actually a member of the dev-team, who has a common account in SWGOH and plays the game like a thousand others?

    They claimed they do in the Q&A, but words are wind...
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.
  • CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    I appreciate the effort @CG_Carrie. Please understand, however, that we are upset because you did not clearly communicate your intent. Our expectations are heavily impacted by your team's communications and that can be a good thing. Perhaps a more explicit list of available full gear and gear salvage rates, accompanied by beta screenshots of "example" box drops at rank 50 and rank 1 for the tiers is something you could provide so we know exactly what the long term target is for current gear (not counting new May gear). The main disappointment is how we went from so much gear and salvage (often 1-2 crafted plus 70+ various gold and decent purple salvage) to exactly 36 salvage pieces plus 1 crafted rancor item for the lucky members regardless of rank 1 or posting 0. Even if those 36 pieces (x10, x10, x8 and x8) are more targeted to what we want, that is a HUGE change. At no point did "flattening" translate to the players as such a drastic change. Be explicit about what's coming, as much as you can be. Please. From our perspective we can't understand how you could intend such a drastic change without saying so earlier; this failed to manage our expectations at all. After focusing solely on moving from t6 to hsith due to lackluster t6 rewards this situation was a direct blow to all the morale and positive gains that my guild and I have made. I understand your team wants to respond carefully, but the longer a response takes the worse the affected players feel, the more difficult it becomes for you to rebuild trust. This was a deeper cut than you anticipated. Don't let it get infected.
  • egtrip
    23 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    rank 3 rewards
    XQXm0S3.png
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.
  • Your company keeps saying you are listening and then doing completely the opposite thing that your community is requesting. My sentiment is this...since Jessie left the way you communicate is through mis truths. You said the rewards would be improved. Do basic math it was done on Reddit for you and tell me how they are improved. Congress is looking into your business practices and you still just don't seem to understand anything.
  • Broxxor
    595 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.

    Agree to disagree there. They said something that was the exact opposite of what they did, and went back to try and find little things to justify it while using vague language.

    That is the telltale sign of a liar and someone trying to deceive you.
  • @CG_Carrie
    I'm trying to understand what the May rewards are going to look like. So, are we going to be getting the current rewards plus fully crafted of the new gear types for the right side gearing up to 13? Still getting hard to obtain gear 12 salvage pieces for the left side gearing up to 13?

    I can kinda picture what the improvement is trying to do... I think. Can you provide a screenshot of what the May rewards will look like? I think that would help ease the tension of uncertainty. Clearly the change to the new system of rewards without the new gear included was no ideal, which is why we are up in arms.
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • JinnNu
    71 posts Member
    Definition of passive-aggressive

    adjective: passive-aggressive
    of or denoting a type of behavior or personality characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation, as in procrastinating, pouting, or misplacing important materials.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.

    Promising something they can't deliver has upset people before. Telling the truth has not.
  • @CG_Carrie
    Oh, almost forgot. Is the master plan to have the raids build players up to the next level like below?

    Pit > build up to gear 11
    HAAT > build up to gear 12
    HST > build up to gear 13
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • CG_Carrie wrote: »
    Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    @CG_Carrie

    Maybe if your intent gave realistic expectation, there would not be a let down. Also, when are you guys going to address the gear problem with the non- heroic guilds. As and administrator of 7 guilds. 2 of which are completing the heroic sith raid, I see a huge difference between the gear they receive and the gear the non heroic guilds get.

    The gear problem is not with the heroic sith raid rather the problem is in t3-t6. I understand there needs to be a difference in rewards between the tiers but when a heroic guild can complete the raid in under 2 days and it is taking a week to complete a t4 for rewards that don’t match the effort. In fact it is demoralizing, when we are maxing out on tickets to complete t4 raid.

    Have you guys ever thought about scaling your rewards. Something like this:
    T1 you recieve white and green pieces of gear.
    T2 you receive a t1 box with a t2 that contains guaranteed pieces of blue gear.
    T3 you receive a t1, t2 box and box that contains only gear 7 items.
    T4 you receive a box that contains a t1, t2 and t3 box and the t4 box has only gear level 8.

    So on and so forth the boxes can remain randomized but as you increase tiers you recieve less and less pieces of gear out of the previous box.
  • redexon
    5 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    These rewards are not good
    Before
    image.png
    After
    image.png
  • @CG_Carrie
    Oh, almost forgot. Is the master plan to have the raids build players up to the next level like below?

    Pit > build up to gear 11
    HAAT > build up to gear 12
    HST > build up to gear 13

    No, the plan is

    Pit > g6
    HAAT > g8
    Sith > g11

    All other gear levels not included above = $$$

  • CG_Carrie wrote: »
    Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.

    We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.

    I’m sorry Carrie but this is a blow off answer. There’s nothing to test. Revert the rewards to how they were and remove challenge gear. It’s a simple fix. That’s all the player base asked for. You over complicated things yet again and now are facing extreme backlash for it.
  • @CG_carrie this game is dangerously close to becoming the next destiny 2 in my opinion. Your team appears Completely lost when it comes to this raid. Your reward system is all over the place and is not in line with the investment required to complete the raid. You guys straight up nerfed the rewards and tried to sell us that it was an improvement. I believed you. Won't make that mistake again.
  • origDeathfly
    127 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    @CG_Carrie
    I'm trying to understand what the May rewards are going to look like. So, are we going to be getting the current rewards plus fully crafted of the new gear types for the right side gearing up to 13? Still getting hard to obtain gear 12 salvage pieces for the left side gearing up to 13?

    I can kinda picture what the improvement is trying to do... I think. Can you provide a screenshot of what the May rewards will look like? I think that would help ease the tension of uncertainty. Clearly the change to the new system of rewards without the new gear included was no ideal, which is why we are up in arms.

    If I'm reading what they've said correctly, they are adding 2 spots to G12..... right now, a character can have 3 pieces of G12... I think after the "May" (I like to think of it as August) update, we will be able to fill 5 pieces of G12....

    I could be completely wrong, but that's how I read it.
  • And i still don't know what magic use for nerf sthan in a flash of second BAM
  • Viserys
    461 posts Member
    This is admittedly pretty frustrating. Advocate on our behalf Carrie, make the game better for us to play.

    Maybe the uptake rates for top ranking players are pretty high, but if instead of downgrading them you just upgraded everyone else and then resolved to bottleneck those players with the upcoming G12 pieces instead of bottlenecking everyone I think you could have achieved a pretty satisfying resolution to this.

    STR is time consuming. At heroic it adds a lot of retries to your daily play. Below heroic it adds 5 battles a day that I also need to to actively play. It's as big a time sink as GW was in the past, sometimes more.

    I just don't want to get tripe for doing it. If STR-6 awarded one full mid-range bottleneck piece (carbanti, stun gun proto, detonator proto, etc) every single time with a 40% chance for a second full piece (with mid-tier pieces and G12 pieces in the loop), and then a rank dependent loot box with chance for a third piece or salvage that would be a pretty satisfying kick back for the time it takes.

    Then just boost the chances and spread on hSTR.
  • There's already a ~35% drop-off in sith raid participation in my guild.
  • giphy.gif
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    I have a question - is there a reason this "Announcement" thread only pops up to the top when someone replies and otherwise drifts down the board, when all of the other "Announcement" threads (many much older) are stickied to the top?
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Bigslow
    104 posts Member
    Preach on. For once there was incentive to try your best because the rewards were worthwhile. i can rant on but the bottom line is this company and the way they’re running this game sucks.
This discussion has been closed.