Adjustment to Heroic Sith Raid

PeteSolo
173 posts Member
I suggest that we adjust the time limit to 3 days instead of 2! The raid is difficult and requires ALOT of retries, remoding and generally speaking it's very time consuming. On top of that we have all these other game modes now and it's clear that the raid requires 100% participation from all members of the guild.

It's heartbreaking to see your guild do so well and be on a good path to clear it and only fail due to the timer running out! I think it's a good idea to make the raid last 3 days instead of 2 so we can have that little bit of extra time. For me this raid isn't even 4 phases, I see it as a 6 phase raid. Phase 4 can easily be broken down into the phase 4 (all 3 bosses up), phase 5 ( Sion and Traya are up), phase 6 (Traya stands alone).

It's a very time consuming process and I think it's not unreasonable to make an exception and extend the timer.

Replies

  • FyreSnake
    11 posts Member
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    It is time consuming that is for sure, but each attempt you should get better. I doubt they would extend the length as 48 hours is what all heroics time limits have been. Guild coordination is certainly needed but that is what makes it kind of fun. Just keep learning and building and you will get there. It's hard, but the rewards are solid right now...and hopefully remain that way lol.
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    FyreSnake wrote: »
    It is time consuming that is for sure, but each attempt you should get better. I doubt they would extend the length as 48 hours is what all heroics time limits have been. Guild coordination is certainly needed but that is what makes it kind of fun. Just keep learning and building and you will get there. It's hard, but the rewards are solid right now...and hopefully remain that way lol.

    But you have to understand that people have real lives too and for a working person who has a family being able to deal with TB/TW, other raids and the sith raid it's getting very difficult. On top of that most guilds spread across continents and have huge time differences so making sure everyone is up during each phase at the same time is impossible. Most times a phase gets stuck because you are waiting for people from the other side of the world to wake up and be ready for their runs, that's hours wasted. It's not like half the guild can take down half the raid and then the other half wakes up hours later and takes out the other half because each phase requires very specific teams to be used.

    Lastly in regards to your argument that heroic raids have always been 48 hours, it's not something that's written in stone. A game has to evolve and adapt to changes and circumstances. There is nothing wrong with a raid having a 3 day limit instead of a 2 day limit, especially when it's 10 times harder and takes 1000 times more coordination at this point. Given that the other 2 raids can be completed by a single person whereas this one can only be done by all 50 being on board, I'd say it's not unreasonable to ask for a little bit of extra time
  • Naraic
    2243 posts Member
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    Its worth bearing in mind that the heroic sith raid takes more tickets to launch so theres more dead time between raids than with the other heroic raids.
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    Naraic wrote: »
    Its worth bearing in mind that the heroic sith raid takes more tickets to launch so theres more dead time between raids than with the other heroic raids.

    That's also true, there's nothing negative about extending the time limit
  • FyreSnake
    11 posts Member
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    Like I said, I don't foresee them changing the time limit. It is supposed to be difficult and an achievement to beat at this point in the game. The other heroics used to be significantly more difficult, but with new characters and G12 it has made things easier. They could change to 3 days and really 95% of guilds that have completed it wouldn't care because they can already beat it in under 2. I do understand your frustration I really do. My guild is mostly USA, but we have those from Europe and Asia as well. You just have to work around peoples schedules and for most people it is reasonable to log in a few times every 12 hours. Perhaps your guild isn't willing to do that. My current guild failed a few HSith raids due to time restriction as well, but you just regroup, keep building as a guild and give it another go. If you have the guns to do it now you will be there within a few more tries and will have a greater sense of accomplishment, than if you only were able to complete b/c they went lax (they did that with yoda as he used to be tough to unlock, then they made it really easy and took the sense of achievement away in my opinion).

    There is a lot of advice and good guides out there to help you achieve victory, I believe "Anex" has released a solid guide that has helped many, I'll have to see if I can find the link.
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    FyreSnake wrote: »
    Like I said, I don't foresee them changing the time limit. It is supposed to be difficult and an achievement to beat at this point in the game. The other heroics used to be significantly more difficult, but with new characters and G12 it has made things easier. They could change to 3 days and really 95% of guilds that have completed it wouldn't care because they can already beat it in under 2. I do understand your frustration I really do. My guild is mostly USA, but we have those from Europe and Asia as well. You just have to work around peoples schedules and for most people it is reasonable to log in a few times every 12 hours. Perhaps your guild isn't willing to do that. My current guild failed a few HSith raids due to time restriction as well, but you just regroup, keep building as a guild and give it another go. If you have the guns to do it now you will be there within a few more tries and will have a greater sense of accomplishment, than if you only were able to complete b/c they went lax (they did that with yoda as he used to be tough to unlock, then they made it really easy and took the sense of achievement away in my opinion).

    There is a lot of advice and good guides out there to help you achieve victory, I believe "Anex" has released a solid guide that has helped many, I'll have to see if I can find the link.

    We definitely have the damage to do it, just not enough time, we have a few European players but even if we didn't, people's work schedules conflict. I live in the same house with my parents and sisters, all five of us have different schedules. My mom and I work mornings while my sisters work afternoons and my father has a changing shift that changes every week. Some times days get past and we don't see one another. My point is that when you have 50 people in a guild, no matter where they are from, getting all of them to participate at the same time is brutal.

    If you break the raid in 12 hours per phase this means that a person has to get in the game at least twice per day to get their attacks in, not so easy when you most likely work 8-12 hours a day, it means you'd have to raid during work hours too which could easily get some people fired.

    I think we as a community have to put as much pressure as possible on the dev team to do this. It's not an absurd thing to ask.
  • Options
    There's actually a large consequence of such a change - you've just cut the number of teams/people required to win by a considerable amount.

    At 48 hours, each player can use their characters twice.
    At 72 hours, each player can use their characters three times.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • FyreSnake
    11 posts Member
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    There's actually a large consequence of such a change - you've just cut the number of teams/people required to win by a considerable amount.

    At 48 hours, each player can use their characters twice.
    At 72 hours, each player can use their characters three times.

    Heroic you get zero character refreshes. It is 48 hours and once you burn a toon it's done until the next raid.
  • Options
    FyreSnake wrote: »
    There's actually a large consequence of such a change - you've just cut the number of teams/people required to win by a considerable amount.

    At 48 hours, each player can use their characters twice.
    At 72 hours, each player can use their characters three times.

    Heroic you get zero character refreshes. It is 48 hours and once you burn a toon it's done until the next raid.

    Ah - you're right. Sorry about that. Haven't been in a Hraid that lasts more than 24 hours (not doind HSith yet)
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • FyreSnake
    11 posts Member
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    Pete: Most people work 8-12 hours a day. I know many who raid during their lunch or a 5 minute bathroom break. It is possible to do. It sounds though that your guild is lacking the dedication HSith requires as a whole if you want to beat it because it takes a lot of dedication and a lot of restarting to get good rng when your trying to beat it the first time, but it does get easier. This raid has caused a lot of guilds to restructure as does most new high end content. But I can almost 100% guaranty you that of the guilds who have beat Hsith, all players log on a minimum of twice a day... If not 10+ times lol.

    Anyways best of luck.

  • Vorgen
    254 posts Member
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    In my opinion the two day time limit is really just an added one time challenge for a guild trying to beat it for the first time and I don’t see any problem with it being part of the whole challenge. Once you beat it, the two day time limit is a moot point. My guild’s first heroic went down to the last hr before we were able to beat it. 2nd heroic took less than a day and 3rd one less than 12hrs. Now we have 24hr hold and once open it’s done in less than 6hrs.
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    There's actually a large consequence of such a change - you've just cut the number of teams/people required to win by a considerable amount.

    At 48 hours, each player can use their characters twice.
    At 72 hours, each player can use their characters three times.

    Uhh nope, in heroic raids once you use them then you can't use them again
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    FyreSnake wrote: »
    Pete: Most people work 8-12 hours a day. I know many who raid during their lunch or a 5 minute bathroom break. It is possible to do. It sounds though that your guild is lacking the dedication HSith requires as a whole if you want to beat it because it takes a lot of dedication and a lot of restarting to get good rng when your trying to beat it the first time, but it does get easier. This raid has caused a lot of guilds to restructure as does most new high end content. But I can almost 100% guaranty you that of the guilds who have beat Hsith, all players log on a minimum of twice a day... If not 10+ times lol.

    Anyways best of luck.

    But why would increasing the limit to 3 days be a bad thing? I still haven't heard a good reason for jt
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    Vorgen wrote: »
    In my opinion the two day time limit is really just an added one time challenge for a guild trying to beat it for the first time and I don’t see any problem with it being part of the whole challenge. Once you beat it, the two day time limit is a moot point. My guild’s first heroic went down to the last hr before we were able to beat it. 2nd heroic took less than a day and 3rd one less than 12hrs. Now we have 24hr hold and once open it’s done in less than 6hrs.

    I assume your guild doesn't represent the majority of guilds in this game. In fact I'd argue that your guild is in the 1% of the 1% of guilds. It is really not fair to talk on behalf of people who are light years behind you.
  • Vorgen
    254 posts Member
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    PeteSolo wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    In my opinion the two day time limit is really just an added one time challenge for a guild trying to beat it for the first time and I don’t see any problem with it being part of the whole challenge. Once you beat it, the two day time limit is a moot point. My guild’s first heroic went down to the last hr before we were able to beat it. 2nd heroic took less than a day and 3rd one less than 12hrs. Now we have 24hr hold and once open it’s done in less than 6hrs.

    I assume your guild doesn't represent the majority of guilds in this game. In fact I'd argue that your guild is in the 1% of the 1% of guilds. It is really not fair to talk on behalf of people who are light years behind you.

    If your guild is thinking about attempting hsr then obviously you think you are ready or close to ready to beat it. My point is at that stage, the 2 day time limit only serves as a one time challenge. Once you beat it, the time constraint no longer matters.

    As a side note, my guild’s GP was around 130mil when we first beat it. I have no idea where 130mil GP puts you in terms of top percentiles but I’m sure it’s not “1% of the 1%” of the guilds. Not even close. hsr is a lot more accessible than most people think.
  • StarSon
    7572 posts Member
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    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).

    So people's lives have nothing to do with it? Ever heard of a "Job", "family", "responsibilities"? I'm sure you understand that no everyone can log in every 12 hours. The damage isn't commutative and you know that. It's not like all phases are the same thing so you just log in at any given part of the day, put all your damage in and then see ya. You have to participate in parts in every single phase meaning you have to be on at least 4 times during those 2 days and so do all other 49 members.

    You clearly have never put yourself in other people's shoes, your life isn't the same as everyone else's buddy.
  • StarSon
    7572 posts Member
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    PeteSolo wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).

    So people's lives have nothing to do with it? Ever heard of a "Job", "family", "responsibilities"? I'm sure you understand that no everyone can log in every 12 hours. The damage isn't commutative and you know that. It's not like all phases are the same thing so you just log in at any given part of the day, put all your damage in and then see ya. You have to participate in parts in every single phase meaning you have to be on at least 4 times during those 2 days and so do all other 49 members.

    You clearly have never put yourself in other people's shoes, your life isn't the same as everyone else's buddy.

    You know nothing about me, or my ability to put myself into other people's shoes, or whatever other insulting thing you want to throw my way. This is no different than any other game. They create what they consider challenging content, put various restrictions on it, and you have to do the content within those restrictions. Heroic raids are all 48 hour time limits, not sure why this one should be different.
  • Options
    PeteSolo wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).

    So people's lives have nothing to do with it? Ever heard of a "Job", "family", "responsibilities"? I'm sure you understand that no everyone can log in every 12 hours. The damage isn't commutative and you know that. It's not like all phases are the same thing so you just log in at any given part of the day, put all your damage in and then see ya. You have to participate in parts in every single phase meaning you have to be on at least 4 times during those 2 days and so do all other 49 members.

    You clearly have never put yourself in other people's shoes, your life isn't the same as everyone else's buddy.

    You might want to tone down the harsh rhetoric. This raid, especially at it's top end, is meant to be the most challenging content the game has to offer. Not everyone is going to be able to clear it. If your guild is truly ready to beat HSTR, then logging in twice a day REALLY shouldn't be a challenge - heck the stores refresh 4x/day and there's free energy 3x/day.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • PeteSolo
    173 posts Member
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    PeteSolo wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).

    So people's lives have nothing to do with it? Ever heard of a "Job", "family", "responsibilities"? I'm sure you understand that no everyone can log in every 12 hours. The damage isn't commutative and you know that. It's not like all phases are the same thing so you just log in at any given part of the day, put all your damage in and then see ya. You have to participate in parts in every single phase meaning you have to be on at least 4 times during those 2 days and so do all other 49 members.

    You clearly have never put yourself in other people's shoes, your life isn't the same as everyone else's buddy.

    You might want to tone down the harsh rhetoric. This raid, especially at it's top end, is meant to be the most challenging content the game has to offer. Not everyone is going to be able to clear it. If your guild is truly ready to beat HSTR, then logging in twice a day REALLY shouldn't be a challenge - heck the stores refresh 4x/day and there's free energy 3x/day.

    First of all "tone it down"? I made an assumption based on his lack of empathy for people who don't have the time to play as much as he does. It's a logical conclusion based on facts.

    When it comes to my guild being strong enough or not, I clearly stated that my team has the damage to do it. So the only difference between what you define as "ready" is the restriction of time. Gear and mod wise my guild is able to perform the same way.
    StarSon wrote: »
    PeteSolo wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    -1 It is "heroic" and meant to be difficult and require coordination. If you have the damage, as you say, then you should be able to do it in the 48 hours they give you. And once you do it once, it gets faster and faster every time (to a point; our guilds all complete it in under 6 hours now).

    So people's lives have nothing to do with it? Ever heard of a "Job", "family", "responsibilities"? I'm sure you understand that no everyone can log in every 12 hours. The damage isn't commutative and you know that. It's not like all phases are the same thing so you just log in at any given part of the day, put all your damage in and then see ya. You have to participate in parts in every single phase meaning you have to be on at least 4 times during those 2 days and so do all other 49 members.

    You clearly have never put yourself in other people's shoes, your life isn't the same as everyone else's buddy.

    You know nothing about me, or my ability to put myself into other people's shoes, or whatever other insulting thing you want to throw my way. This is no different than any other game. They create what they consider challenging content, put various restrictions on it, and you have to do the content within those restrictions. Heroic raids are all 48 hour time limits, not sure why this one should be different.

    On to you now. To the part of "you know nothing about me" look above, I made an assumption based on evidence. The evidence being your lack of empathy and unwillingness to change the raid time restriction. Is there a chance that I'm wrong? Absolutely, however you would be opposing a policy change that would work against you if that were the case and therefore you must either be insane or if you aren't insane, which is what I assumed, then you simply aren't facing the same challenges.

    We currently have only 2 raids in the game before the sith raid. That's not a big enough sample to make such a conclusive decision. Many things in the game have changed and evolved from the previous cadence. Look at Marquee event evolution, legendary event frequency and other things. Clearly there's nothing set in stone when it comes to this game.

    Furthermore you forget to take into account how different the sith raid comes at a time when the game is overcrowded by events and activities. Back when rancor was launched it was the only raid that existed. Ships weren't even in the game. When haat was launched, other than rancor, which became alot easier, it was basically the only thing that required intense participation.

    The Sith raid comes at a time when we have 2 preexisting raids, territory battles, territory wars and we have constant rotating events that come way more frequently than they did before. Yeah rancor is still easy but it's still a 10 -15 minute activity. Haat can still take over 45 minutes to put a good score and actually be able to compete for top 10 (3). Then you must do the various events, and TB/TW. Additionally if you happen to be a guild leader/officer you have to have an insane amount of out of game participation which can consume alot of time.

    All that and we still have no mod management system which would help a little. Not only that but people have opposed posts from others that ask for mod management?!?!??!?!?! Like why???

    Anyways TL:DR playing time even without the sith raid has increased tremendously in the last few months and that's a fact not an opinion. It's reasonable for the game to make an adaptation and help the community. If you wanna be a try hard and see it as a challenge then nothing stops you, next time your guild hits the 2 day mark then abandon it and retry. That's your challenge right there, I don't see why others must suffer so you can have your challenge.
  • Burnsius
    24 posts Member
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    I'm just tired of getting daily login rewards for raid rewards. Such a slap in the face
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