Sith Raid, rewards revamp, mechanics discussion

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DuneSeaFarmer
3525 posts Member
edited May 2018
Any ideas? In all seriousness, weeks, months? Really hoping soon, getting gear you literally have a thousand or more pieces of, is kinda disheartening. Trying to keep members interested but it's getting harder each run. As is it's mostly run now for coins only.
Post edited by DuneSeaFarmer on

Replies

  • They didnt even fix the 1 months old damage bug yet. So could be awhile
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    i wouldn't get my hopes up tbh, it's probably gonna be a nerf.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • I just hit p1 to move the guild ahead and then I don't even look at it again. Continues to be one of the 'sithiest' events we have.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • I just hit p1 to move the guild ahead and then I don't even look at it again. Continues to be one of the 'sithiest' events we have.

    It's an Auto fest to be sure.

  • XKurareX
    478 posts Member
    Everyone talks about rewards, but people dislike the endless amount of hitpoints. All hitpoints below t7 should be cut by 10 times.

    After this we can talk about rewards.

    And after this we can talk about not so rng heavy encounters/raids in future. I have no problem needing specific troops for raids similar to special missions in TW - if its needed to pay the game in the end. Just no need to have such a resist and pure rng heavy system.
  • CaptainRex
    2840 posts Member
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • August
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.

    i think they're having issues with "balancing" the rewards, not the coding.
    Also, i believe they said they would rework the rewards in may when 5/6 g12 gear gets added. I'm sure someone else is able to find that dev quote ;)
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.

    It could be as simple and complex as the game having one loot table, and having a different set of rewards per each raid etc, is not so easy?

  • leef wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.

    i think they're having issues with "balancing" the rewards, not the coding.
    Also, i believe they said they would rework the rewards in may when 5/6 g12 gear gets added. I'm sure someone else is able to find that dev quote ;)

    I'm for it being done right, and time needed is fine. Just wondering. It's tough watching players walk away, and you have nothing to offer to hold them. Sure, people come and go, but long time players, members, it's tough.
    And even worse it can cause a domino effect. Member #1 leaves, then the thread is pulled.

  • Not sure why it is so difficult to have set rewards for tier 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 and Heroic. Their changes a month ago hurt those in T6 and Heroic, but they should have been able to make changes fair to all tiers, not an all or nothing approach.
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Not sure why it is so difficult to have set rewards for tier 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 and Heroic. Their changes a month ago hurt those in T6 and Heroic, but they should have been able to make changes fair to all tiers, not an all or nothing approach.

    With my job I have "some limited experience" with coding (not games) etc, and it's always the "Simple" or "Seemingly Simple" changes that bite you in the backside. You find that hiccup, or as I call it "code written just before lunchtime" that comes back to haunt you. Deadlines, workloads can cause oversights and fixing them, sometimes it can be easier to start over with that routine. You can only "Patch" things for so long, then you need to do a rewrite or wait for it to go boom.

  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Any ideas? In all seriousness, weeks, months? Really hoping soon, getting gear you literally have a thousand or more pieces of, is kinda disheartening. Trying to keep members interested but it's getting harder each run. As is it's mostly run now for coins only.

    It will be "weeks" at most, assuming they are able to keep to the originally stated timeline of "May." I always figured it would all come with the ships update, but I had expected that last week.

    Edit: Also, they may remove challenge gear, but we already saw what they're going to do to rewards, and it is a significant nerf overall, so I wouldn't push for it to come sooner, because it's going to suck.
  • Kissycat
    410 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.

    i think they're having issues with "balancing" the rewards, not the coding.
    Also, i believe they said they would rework the rewards in may when 5/6 g12 gear gets added. I'm sure someone else is able to find that dev quote ;)

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166824/sith-raid-reward-rollback-4-17-18#latest

    Yup ;)
  • Kissycat wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Multiple programmers on here have said removing challenge gear should be incredibly simple, unless the code for SWGoH isn't well written.
    Whether or not this is the case, I'm okay with a little challenge gear if it means the rewards stay the same, and not that god-awful "improvement" they tried to implement.

    i think they're having issues with "balancing" the rewards, not the coding.
    Also, i believe they said they would rework the rewards in may when 5/6 g12 gear gets added. I'm sure someone else is able to find that dev quote ;)

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166824/sith-raid-reward-rollback-4-17-18#latest

    Yup ;)

    TY!
  • bisto_760
    236 posts Member
    Bump. T6 as it is now is dreadful. It's just incredibly boring for garbage rewards. I want to build toward heroic and I enjoy theory crafting and building teams so I don't mind the work. But the t6 grind is beyond boring and doesn't help my goals.
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I think TST hit critical mass with regards to mechanics. You cannot solo, you cannot escape, you can auto but you will turn in weak scores, and even playing manually is not much better. The only idea I can come up with is was meant to be a grind, slow, to give us something to work on. Trouble is, it is such a narrow field of what will work, it's become a white whale and most throw their hands up and walk away. Even the consistently positive players are at a loss. There has to be a reason, it's just not evident as to why it is as it is. A new hero or heroes coming to really make it fun?
  • Jeric
    271 posts Member
    Carrie comes from an MMO background, so that tells you why the STR was designed to be a grind based raid. Minutes played per player is a factor in those sorts of raids.

    When they restored the original rewards, Carrie stated in an interview with Going Nerdy that the main reason that it was rolled back had more to due with perception and psychology than anything. They are still committed to equalizing the rewards in a way that prevents the top players from accelerating progress to a point they feel is unhealthy. Basically, it's still going to come, and it will be net loss of total rewards for some.

  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Jeric wrote: »
    Carrie comes from an MMO background, so that tells you why the STR was designed to be a grind based raid. Minutes played per player is a factor in those sorts of raids.

    When they restored the original rewards, Carrie stated in an interview with Going Nerdy that the main reason that it was rolled back had more to due with perception and psychology than anything. They are still committed to equalizing the rewards in a way that prevents the top players from accelerating progress to a point they feel is unhealthy. Basically, it's still going to come, and it will be net loss of total rewards for some.

    "Strange game, the only winning move is, not to play". *sigh* I understand all to well the MMO way of doing things (SWG/GW1/LOTRO/SWTOR/GW2). I really think this game would do really well to abandon the idea of competing with MMO's. Okay you can try to replicate the mechanics, but true MMO die hards do not play Mobile games instead of playing and MMO. Player vs AI instead of true PVP, etc.. They just won't convert enough to make things viable imho. The groups I talk to say "Turn based? Solo raids contributing to a grand total? Pass..". Doesn't mean this game is good or bad, just not their cup of tea.

  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Jeric wrote: »
    Carrie comes from an MMO background, so that tells you why the STR was designed to be a grind based raid. Minutes played per player is a factor in those sorts of raids.

    When they restored the original rewards, Carrie stated in an interview with Going Nerdy that the main reason that it was rolled back had more to due with perception and psychology than anything. They are still committed to equalizing the rewards in a way that prevents the top players from accelerating progress to a point they feel is unhealthy. Basically, it's still going to come, and it will be net loss of total rewards for some.

    The problem with the previous iteration is it was a net loss for everyone. It wasn't a nerf for "some players" it was a nerf for all players that complete heroic STR. The only options to make it not be that are for the new g12 pieces to be downright amazing (highly unlikely considering they thought the first batch were great), or to double the salvage that we were being given, keep the full piece, and add the new g12.
  • Edited title since we have kinda strayed from my original topic.
  • It's been a month since my clan started tier 4 in sith raid...and were in the final half of the final tier in that tier...and it brings us tears...my eyes have tears on all these tough tiers so someone tear them out.

    This raid is awful and saying they are seeing it getting better with numbers is probably a lie to protect themselves.

    The grind isnt fun and certainly isnt worth it...they dropped the ball and deflated it on this one.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Off-topic but thank you for doing so. More people should do the same.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Removing challenge gear should be almost trivial yes, even if the coding isn't very good. The problem is that this of course changes the balance of the other gear that is awarded.
    I still don't understand why lower tiers guilds are so massively penalized compared to heroic guilds. A lower tier guild will do one or two T4's a week, and get pretty much nothing relevant, while Heroic tier guilds are raking in full gear 12 pieces and traya shards and guild event currency.

    I'm completely ok with them getting MORE, but the discrepancy is completely out of line. Even if you think doubling rewards each tier is ok, that's not even close to what it is. Difference between T4 and T7 is about x20.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Moved to Sith Raid Sub forum
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Removing challenge gear should be almost trivial yes, even if the coding isn't very good. The problem is that this of course changes the balance of the other gear that is awarded.
    I still don't understand why lower tiers guilds are so massively penalized compared to heroic guilds. A lower tier guild will do one or two T4's a week, and get pretty much nothing relevant, while Heroic tier guilds are raking in full gear 12 pieces and traya shards and guild event currency.

    I'm completely ok with them getting MORE, but the discrepancy is completely out of line. Even if you think doubling rewards each tier is ok, that's not even close to what it is. Difference between T4 and T7 is about x20.

    This has always confused me as well. The idea of a multi-tiered raid, I thought, was to allow guilds to progress towards the heroic content. How are they supposed to progress to heroic content if they get junk rewards?
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I tend to look at things logically, when things do not add up, I get bothered and keep trying to see the rhyme and reason of it. But The Sith Raid beggars logic. 3 runs lately and the gear is stuff I have thousands of. Honestly it needs to be sent back to alpha and completely rethought. Fingers crossed they are doing just that.

    My concern is if they view the raid as a success, we can expect more of the same. Please let my fears be unfounded.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    I tend to look at things logically, when things do not add up, I get bothered and keep trying to see the rhyme and reason of it. But The Sith Raid beggars logic. 3 runs lately and the gear is stuff I have thousands of. Honestly it needs to be sent back to alpha and completely rethought. Fingers crossed they are doing just that.

    My concern is if they view the raid as a success, we can expect more of the same. Please let my fears be unfounded.

    They have already stated they want to (re)rework the reward structure..... isn't that a sign they see issues?
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    ...

    Post edited by DuneSeaFarmer on
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    I tend to look at things logically, when things do not add up, I get bothered and keep trying to see the rhyme and reason of it. But The Sith Raid beggars logic. 3 runs lately and the gear is stuff I have thousands of. Honestly it needs to be sent back to alpha and completely rethought. Fingers crossed they are doing just that.

    My concern is if they view the raid as a success, we can expect more of the same. Please let my fears be unfounded.

    They have already stated they want to (re)rework the reward structure..... isn't that a sign they see issues?

    You'd think so, but the "rework" they gave us was a HUGE nerf. Correct me if I'm wrong (please), but I did not see them say that the non-new g12 portion of that rework was going to change. If that is the case, then it's still an overall nerf to rewards, and that's just at the heroic level. Don't even want to think about how bad the lower levels will be nerfed.
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