Raid Han AI

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FailingCrab
1155 posts Member
Is there a way of predicting who the AI will target with Raid Han's opening shot (highest health/prot etc) or is it totally random? Coming up against a few in arena now and it's probably just confirmation bias but he seems to go for my Vader most of the time.
https://swgoh.gg/u/ionastarbound/
Discord: Iona Starbound#5299

Replies

  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    it's random as far as i know.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    leef wrote: »
    it's random as far as i know.

    Yeah its random. I haven't seen any favoritism towards one toon.
  • Shaunyvee
    916 posts Member
    First order officer seems to be a raid Han magnet as well!

    Clearly it's random, but sometimes you think to yourself 'theres only a 20% of it happening should be ok..... Damnit!' lol
  • As other said it's random...but from my experience he seems to always target your fastest squad member. If I fight the same team 5 times in a row..3 of those times he'll target my fastest modded toon.
  • Iceih_SWG
    301 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    it's random as far as i know.

    Yeah its random. I haven't seen any favoritism towards one toon.

    It can not be random, he attacks my Old Daka almost every time, but not always. I think it is partial random and partial chosen.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    Iceih_SWG wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    it's random as far as i know.

    Yeah its random. I haven't seen any favoritism towards one toon.

    It can not be random, he attacks my Old Daka almost every time, but not always. I think it is partial random and partial chosen.

    Sure sounds random to me.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    When I face Raid Han, he seems to stun my fastest toon, mods counted in but not in-play modifiers.

    For example, Vader under EP is the fastest on the field, but Thrawn is fastest b4 hitting the field. Han stuns Thrawn.

    Another example, Ventress is fastest on the field bcuz of her unique, but Daka is fastest b4 hitting the field. Han stuns Daka.

    It seems to b this way an awful lot, I can't guarantee 100% bcuz I haven't paid enuf attention but I will start to.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    Random for me.
  • Drazz127
    770 posts Member
    I have noticed in the past that he would stun the fastest toon more than half of the time, when it should be closer to 20%. Hard for me to say if it's random or coded to be semi-random.

    As far as random goes, the other day I had an opposing DN go before mine, and he opened with a basic attack. This leaves me to believe, there's a small chance of randomness involved with all moves.
  • Iceih_SWG
    301 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Iceih_SWG wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    it's random as far as i know.

    Yeah its random. I haven't seen any favoritism towards one toon.

    It can not be random, he attacks my Old Daka almost every time, but not always. I think it is partial random and partial chosen.

    Sure sounds random to me.

    For each 5 arena fights, 4 opening attacks fall in Daka, the remaining changes randomly, it can not be 100% RNG.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    So....it's random 20% of the time? What?

    Your small sample size does not equate to actual data.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    So....it's random 20% of the time? What?

    Your small sample size does not equate to actual data.

    Weighted... this is a thing... really it's is. I use it in game development all the time. You have a 90% chance of following a particular path... otherwise, it will randomly select the path it chooses.

    This isn't sorcery, it's game development.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Ok fine. But there's zero evidence that anything like that happens.

    My own limited sample size indicates it's random 100% of the time. Neither of us can be trusted though.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Iceih_SWG
    301 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Ok fine. But there's zero evidence that anything like that happens.

    My own limited sample size indicates it's random 100% of the time. Neither of us can be trusted though.

    Not really, what I understand about @t0neg0d post is that characters have different weights. So all the characters in YOUR arena team have the same weight, while in my arena team Daka is a heavier than the others, and in @Shaunyvee 's team First Order Officer is the heaviest.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    t0neg0d is not a developer of this game so he doesn't know, he's just speculating.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    What I've noticed is, that 90% of the time raid han stuns Vader in my team... occasionally he selects someone else. He does, however, go after Vader to an almost predictable level. When I fight a team w/ raid han, I either change my strategy to the expected stun, or bring in a pretaunt tank to limit the effect of Vader being stunned. Every now and then, I'm surprised & he picks another character... but it is rare.

    This leads me to the most logical conclusion that the devs implemented a widely used AI method.... weighted decision-making.

    Like I said before... It's not sorcery... It's not even an obscure concept. It is literally used in all decent AI implementations.
  • Mr_Sausage
    1869 posts Member
    I use FO exclusively in arena and my First Order Officer does not get hit by Raid Han 90% of the time. It is completely random on who he hits. They all get their fair share of getting stunned.
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I'd also like to mention that this game is written in unity. There are so many AI libraries available for unity, that the chances of CG having developed their own (when the cost is minimal) is minimal at best. This is likely the case for thier entity system, particle emitter system, shaders & basic rendering pipeline as well.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    Mr_Sausage wrote: »
    I use FO exclusively in arena and my First Order Officer does not get hit by Raid Han 90% of the time. It is completely random on who he hits. They all get their fair share of getting stunned.

    Do you work in an AI Development field though?
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Mr_Sausage wrote: »
    I use FO exclusively in arena and my First Order Officer does not get hit by Raid Han 90% of the time. It is completely random on who he hits. They all get their fair share of getting stunned.

    Do you work in an AI Development field though?

    I actually have written an AI library (as well as particle system, entity system, single-pass lighting render pipeline, and many others) for one of the most widely used java-based rendering engines. Its what i do for a living.
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    Question was directed at Mr. Sausage.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    My favorite was the GUI library i developed (shameless plug)
  • FailingCrab
    1155 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Thanks @t0neg0d, I know nothing about AI so that was a useful insight
    https://swgoh.gg/u/ionastarbound/
    Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Just because it's possible to program the AI to target specific characters, doesn't mean they actually did.
    There are alot of players convinced there's an AI advantage for example. I have no doubt that it's possible to code an AI advantage, however the devs have always denied they did. I've no reason to believe they're lying about that. Still, players are 100% sure there is an AI advantage.
    I also have no reason to believe raid han actually targets specific characters more often than others. I'm sure the devs are capable of coding it. As far as i know the devs haven't commented on this though. But even if they did, it's not like that would convince some players if they say it's totally random (no weighted odds).
    I use rex lead and he's not getting targetted more often. Until recently he was the fastest character of the team. So based on people's suspicions, he should have been targetted more often. So yea...
    Seeying as the AI is terrible, i highly doubt they coded it, so i'm chaulking this one up to confirmation bias.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • TVF
    36591 posts Member
    Thanks @t0neg0d, I know nothing about AI so that was a useful insight

    Interesting? Sure. Useful? Impossible to know.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • FailingCrab
    1155 posts Member
    So far we've established that it is possible and (according to t0neg0d) even likely that the AI uses some kind of weighted system. However, we clearly don't have any proof of this and the devs (for obvious reasons) haven't laid out exactly how the AI works.

    @leef I'd just like to make clear that I haven't claimed the AI has an advantage, we're talking about something different here. I also never brought up the speed hypothesis, I was asking more generally if it's 'random' or not.
    https://swgoh.gg/u/ionastarbound/
    Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    So far we've established that it is possible and (according to t0neg0d) even likely that the AI uses some kind of weighted system. However, we clearly don't have any proof of this and the devs (for obvious reasons) haven't laid out exactly how the AI works.

    @leef I'd just like to make clear that I haven't claimed the AI has an advantage, we're talking about something different here. I also never brought up the speed hypothesis, I was asking more generally if it's 'random' or not.

    possible? yes, likely? not really. The AI doesn't even use focus fire or targetting the lowest health+prot toon. So raid han having weighted odds for who he targets seems like stretch.
    Also, I know you didn't claim the AI has an advantage, nor did i imply you did. I was just using it as an example.
    I also didn't didn't imply YOU brought up the speed hypothesis, but others in this thread did.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Mr_Sausage
    1869 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Mr_Sausage wrote: »
    I use FO exclusively in arena and my First Order Officer does not get hit by Raid Han 90% of the time. It is completely random on who he hits. They all get their fair share of getting stunned.

    Do you work in an AI Development field though?

    Not at all. The point of the post was more to say FOO does not have a greater weight to get stunned for a FO team as was suggested by some. At least not that I have noticed.
  • Interesting posts from many here, cheers.
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